Newly diagnosed Diabetic Cat w/ ignorant Mom

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Telrey'sMom

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My cat Telrey (orange tabby mutted, long hair) was diagnosed with diabetes about the time I had gall bladder surgery December 23rd. Unfortunately for him, I misunderstood the Vets instructions and gave him FIVE times the amount of insulin he was suppose to have on his first dosage.....he spent 5 days at the Vet. While at the Vet they also diagnosed him with irritable bowel syndrome and put him on Royal Canin food. Last week I gave him one unit of insulin and feel him the Royal Canin, but after a few days he would not eat it, so I gave in and gave him a little Fancy Feast (wet), this is his favorite food and is recommended for a diabetic cat.

Yesterday, he had his second curve study which showed his glucose was in the 300's the Vet recommended go back to the fancy feast as he is extremely thin and up the insulin to 2 units. He is very happy to have the fancy feast, but I think he threw up a little while I was at work. Urine output is high, but he is drinking lots of water.

I have five cats (ok, I've outted myself), I HAVE FIVE CATS (never again)!! Telrey is my Alpha cat and the other cats have rejected him and this has made him incredibly sad. Also, he wants to sleep near his litter box and food. On a side note, I am also dealing with a horrible flea infestation (I forgot to apply Advantage to my inside outside cat for a month). I am using fleago and borax and vaccuming every other day except where the powder is on rugs and furniture.

No one in my human family is diabetic, so this is all so new to me.

When will Telrey start feeling like himself and when will my other cats start accepting him again? Telrey is 9 years old.....and the favorite!!

Any advice would be helpful.

Thank you,

Telrey'sMom
 
Welcome to FDMB -- the best place you never wanted to be!!

The pate versions of Fancy Feast are a good choice for a diabetic cat. Telray is clearly smart for having rejected the Royal Canin! The carbs are typically high. There are two food lists, Janet & Binkys and a nutritional spreadsheet, that will list out the carb levels of most of the available canned cat foods.

What insulin are you using? Knowing what insulin you're giving will allow people here who have expertise with that insulin give you a hand.

Are you home testing? If not, getting a human glucometer will allow you to have much greater control over Telray's diabetes and let you see the progress he's making. In addition, being able to test your cat's blood glucose means that you will be able to keep him safe.
 
Welcome, Telrey and Mom . . .
I'm also a newbie with my kitty, Frodo, diagnosed in the middle of my PhD comprehensives, so I also flopped around and made a few mistakes in the first few weeks. And I'll out myself also . . . I too have five cats! A consequence of working in animal rescue and fostering kittens for almost ten years. . . All the sudden you realize that silly, sweet kitten that no one wanted to adopt is now a two-year-old cat and still living in your house and as far as he is concerned, he belongs fully to you. Oy! Happened to me four times before I finally learned to send them to new foster homes at four months and only concentrating on ittie bitties.

Anyway, welcome! Everyone has been so helpful and in the last week since I found this sight I have learned a lot and become much more confident in my abilities to help my big sugar kitty.

Heidi and Frodo
 
My Vet recommended I only put down food twice a day for Telrey. I am too afraid to do this as I work 8-5 M-F and am afraid he might get into trouble and I won't be here. What does this site recommend? Telrey has been extremely hungary all day today, I don't know if this is a good sign or not. He was eating 4 to 5 cans of fancy feast a day before his diagnosis and became extremely thin and was pooping constantly.

Thanks,

Telrey's Mom
 
Ahhh shucks only 5 cats! :lol: Look down at my signature I have 13! Only two of which are diabetics...which btw I adopted as diabetics. Everyone here eats 4 times a day since I am home with them all day. But I do know that a lot of folks either use a timed feeder, or will freeze their cat's canned food and put it out frozen so the kitty can nibble as it thaws. I freeze my bunches last meal of the day so they can snack on it overnight and let me sleep. :-D

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
hi!! :smile:

Unregulated diabetic kitties eat a lot! My little Garland was putting down at least 5 cans of FF when she was first diagnosed and I switched her to wet food. They also pee a lot too. Garland got really thin. Thats why I took her to the vet the day she was diagnosed. She was sooo thin, but eating and drinking a lot.Once the insulin starts working and she gets more regulated, the eating should slow down. Im not really sure what the board suggests for food. I personally feed Garland 5 times a day. At her AMPS, again mid morning, mid afternoon, PMPS and then I leave a can out for overnight for grazing. But thats what works for us.

Good luck :) Im sure others will be by for advice for you :) What insulin are you using?
 
Just popping in to say and welcome! You've found a fantastic place to get all kinds of great information, suggestions, guidance, support and just about anything you need to help you help your kitty! :-D

I can't say anything about the insulin you're using as I'm not familiar with it, but will tell you everything will get easier. Honest! :lol:

When Poopy was diagnosed, he'd eat anything not nailed down and was shedding weight faster than hair. Now that he's doing much better with insulin, he eats less, is gaining weight, poops and pees less, and is so much happier!

It's funny you mentioned about the other pets not accepting your kitty. I think pets have an uncanny knack for knowing when something isn't right. Poopy has always ruled the roost here, but when he was down and out, I noticed the other animals didn't defer to him as they normally had. Now that he's better...yep, you guessed it...this roost is his once more!

Welcome again, and be sure to ask any questions you might have. The folks here are super friendly and knowledgeable!
 
HI there - I'm pretty new to the board too but there is a wealth of information here. Lantus is a 12 hour insulin so its best given twice a day am & pm. Also home testing is very important to avoid low blood sugar episodes and you should test before giving insulin. My cat Sitka has had trouble keeping weight on but now that her blood sugar is in the low 200's she is eating less and keeping the weight on - so I'm sure Telray will do better as his blood sugar gets better regulated. Jan
 
Telrey'sMom said:
My Vet recommended I only put down food twice a day for Telrey. I am too afraid to do this as I work 8-5 M-F and am afraid he might get into trouble and I won't be here. What does this site recommend? Telrey has been extremely hungary all day today, I don't know if this is a good sign or not. He was eating 4 to 5 cans of fancy feast a day before his diagnosis and became extremely thin and was pooping constantly.
Click to expand...

You can free feed the canned food. Most people here use a programmable timed feeder for this purpose, especially if they work full time. Here's a popular one: http://www.petsafe.net/products/feeders-and-waterers/feeding-systems/5-meal-timed-pet-feeder There is also a 2 compartment one. There are other brands. Most pet stores have these. I know that PetSmart has the Petsafe 5 and 2 compartment feeders. Just fill as many compartments as needed with food and then prgroram the time.

Telrey'sMom said:
I am using Lantus, 2 units, each morning.
Click to expand...

Lantus is a good insulin to use but really needs to be give twice a day, about 12 hours apart. Once a day dosing doesn't work for cats because they have such high metabolisms.

There's a Lantus board here on FDMB. Browse around when you get a chance :smile: To start with, read these Lantus info stickies:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

Telrey'sMom said:
My cat Telrey (orange tabby mutted, long hair) was diagnosed with diabetes about the time I had gall bladder surgery December 23rd. Unfortunately for him, I misunderstood the Vets instructions and gave him FIVE times the amount of insulin he was suppose to have on his first dosage.....he spent 5 days at the Vet.
Click to expand...

Scary :o So you accidentally gave 10 units instead of 2? Newbies oftentimes misread the markings on the syringe and/or the instructions the vet gives. Don't feel bad about it :YMHUG: I'm glad your cat is ok now :smile:
 
My FD, Cedric, is in remission. We used Lantus for a month (see spreadsheet below) and with some other changes - all canned food, some exercise in the new house I had just bought, and 4 small meals instead of 2 larger ones really helped. I was reluctant to give up the dry food (he ate both) but when I took it away, his numbers dropped, becomeing normal in 2 days. I tested him every time I would give him insulin, and still test him about every 2 weeks. I use an auto feeder, Catemate C20, that has an ice pack for the bottom. I give him a cold portion on one side to open between 10 & 11am and a frozen protion to open around 4pm (thawed by then). He gets fed by me at 6am and again at about 7pm. the stray cat I rescued gets the same food, has his own feeder too (although he has a tendancy of eating Cedric's food becauce it's better he says...). His coat is getting very nice and silky; Cedric's is like petting furry silk.

I work 7 days a week, so the feeders are awesome! No matter what time I am leaving for work, whether ii's 4am or 11am! good luck and welcome!
 
Thank you, Thank you!!

Your informed replies have been so helpful. I checked this site while I was at work and then immediately called my vet about the dosage. He said to give him two units twice a day as you guys suggested. I just gave him his second dosage about 45 minutes ago. I am so happy he is eating, but his poop is so smelly. Have any of you had problems with smelly poop? Will this go away or is it just something I need to get used too? I have no problem with the smelly poop as long as he gets better!! I am also going to check out an automatic feeder, I had no idea such an item existed. Will keep you guys posted on Telrey's progress and mine as well, hope I get a handle on all this....I work in the legal profession and all this medical stuff is so foreign to me.

I am sure I will post additional questions in the future which may make people laugh, as I have no one in my family who has ever been diagnosed with diabetes.

Thank you again,

Telrey's Mom
 
Hi guys and welcome to the board! Our kitty mocha was also on lantus (22 months) .. she ate a lot in the beginning when her numbers were everywhere .. now, diet controlled, she eats just over one can of wal marts special kitty turkey and giblets (she LOVES it) a day. We used her auto feeder at night to space out her meals, in case she got low. Small, frequent meals are the best for diabetics, human and feline alike!

This site has a ton of information and wonderful people so read up and ask away .. someone is always bound to be here!
 
Welcome welcome welcome Terley & momma!

Glad your vet changed to 2 times a day... Not a lantus user but have lived on this site since 4/11.... My sugar Bean is in remission but still gets low carb foods and tested...

You have found the best place to be..... You both will be in good shape in no time at all and advising others ---promise that!

You will also have many folks that will advise you on your insulin dosage, times, etc.

Has anyone suggested checking for ketones?

The best advice I could pass on would be to PLEASE home test. You can tell why I gently encourage if you would glance at Bean's spreadsheet in my signature. Our first successful home test my Bean was only 27 and sooo close to a hypo. This forum was here for me. On the phone and posting support and suggestions. My Bean is still will me today! THANK GOSH... could not imagine what I would do without her. Even though she is in remission, I stay on the forum to mostly keep learning about fd, to offer support however I can and to learn about issues with our Civvie Kitties and situations as well.

Just know, you are not alone anymore and will get thru this and be offering advice to others before you know it. Cant imagine 5! I have 3 and boy oh boy....what alot of fun! They are just wonderful, arent they????? :o
 
Yes Telrey was checked for Kestone's we I gave him the initial wrong dosage, it showed a minor issue but they re-tested three days later and he was normal. He has his next curve study a week from Monday and I plan to ask them to re-test again, just to be on the safe side.

Yes I love my cats, at this moment I have two (one on each side of me) that are waiting to get in my lap. It's nice to be loved.

Telrey's Mom
 
you just effectively doubled his dose, you need to actually split the 2 units up so 1 unit twice a day for a total of two. Hold that for a week, and might I suggest learn how to test blood glucose levels at home ? It is cheaper, sooo much safer and takes the guessing game away.

Jen
 
Telrey: Update (have more questions)

Need advice again, very frustrated with my vet!!

It's been over a month since diagnosis, we are now up to 3 units Lantus twice a day and Telrey is BG is anywhere from 360-380. He is eating like a horse (5 to 7 cans of fancy feast a day). All of his blood work is normal... electolites, potassium (sp) but they ordered a full work-up again and I should have the results on Monday. When I took him to the vet the end of December he thyroid tested in the normal range, he was eating like a pig at that time as well. He is gaining weight.....they now think maybe he might have a hyperactive thyroid.

Here is my main concern......he needs a dental badly, and my Vet agrees but until he is stabilized they don't want to do it. It is obvious to me he needs an anti-biotic but they don't want to give him one. Also, since his first injection, none of my (I have five cats) will go anywhere near him, Telrey has always been the Alpha male and bossed everyone around....he is now at the bottom of the pack at my house now. He will only stay in the room near his food and litter box on the floor (tile). Also, I forgot to add I had a flea infestation at my house which has subsided (that's a whole other post). Telrey is highly allergic to fleas.

Also, all my cats are eating like pigs, are they all now diabetic????

My question, should I get a second opinion concerning his teeth???
 
Hi Telrey'sMom,

Is the reason you think he needs antibiotics because of his teeth or is there another reason? It's great that you're home testing! Have you had a chance to put together a spreadsheet yet? If you post it, it would be much easier for us to help you help Telrey. How much does he weigh?

Racci uses Lantus also and is on a large dose also. She was on 2 different types of insulin and was raised by 1/2 units. She's also a big heavy cat and extremely hard to regulate. Have his numbers been high from the beginning or are they going up and down? Most cats start out on a low dose, 1 or 2U 2x per day and work up by 1/4-1/2 units until they find the correct dose. It takes a long time for some of them to become regulated but allergies to flea bites or anything else or infections from his teeth - anything like that can also raise his BG. I think you should try again with the vet. Call him and insist that he give an antibiotic for his teeth and tell him you think it is raising his blood glucose. I see no reason that he shouldn't give it if he's not getting anything else unless it has sugar in it.

As far as the other cats eating too much also and all of a sudden not liking him, I think it is just a case of jealousy at this point. He is getting special time with you and they aren't and all of the cats can sense your stress and frustration. Breathe! :lol: I know it's crazy and nerve wracking at first but take a breath and relax a little. Try not to worry so much. You're doing great. Post more often and put up a spreadsheet so we can help you more. Give the other guys a little special time also when you give him his tests and shots and try to get them all together for some group playtime.

I know my Calli would always hiss at Racci when she came home from the vet because she hated the vet and would do so all day. I would tell her to stop it. Racci, the kindest creature in the world would even give one hiss at Calli after Calli visited the vet. Yours are just continuing it so maybe it's the medicine they don't like. It might help to put some of the 'rescue remedy' on all of them so they all smell the same. You can pick it up at most pet supply shops. I also would try to get him out of there and not let the others be nasty. Just some suggestions.

Most important though is that they will all feel your stress so try to be calm and give yourself a break. You deserve it. There's a lot going on and it takes time.

Melanie
 
Forgot to say, those FF cans are small. Considering his numbers, I don't think what he's eating is a cause for worry. He's probably catching up.

Melanie & Racci
 
Thank you for responding!!

Telrey's normal weight is around 12lbs. when I initally took him to the Vet the week before X-Mas he weighed 7.5 lbs, last week he weighed 8.0 lbs and today he weighed 8.0 lbs, but I think the Vet's scales are incorrect as his belly has started to fill out this week. No I am not doing home testing but requested a testing kit from Rebecca today and hope I can get one. I am not a medical person (I work in the legal field) and up to this point have been intimidated by all the medical stuff on this site, but I am slowly learning.

Since our initial diagnois Telrey has been in the 300's, started at 1 unit, then 2 units and now 3, no movement whatsoever in his numbers. He is a great Vet cat, walks around with his tail up in the air and purr's constantly rather than staying in the fetal position like most cats do at the Vet. The staff at my Vet's office claim he is highly unusual for a cat and is very friendly and cooperative, and seems perfectly at ease when he is there for his curve studies.

Is there a reason my Vet does not want to give him an anti-biotic?

Where do I find the spreadsheet?

Thanks so much for your insight/
 
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you! Racci isn't feeling well for the past few days either. I'm so glad her vet appt is monday. She had a messy bottom and with her long thick fur and hatred of being brushed, not to mention washed, well you can imagine. :smile: She was actually pretty good this time.

Telrey sounds like a real sweetheart! my cats always hated going to the vet, my dogs too for that matter. :lol: I think that's an awfully large dose for such a small cat. We usually go much slower in raising doses and raise by half units instead of full units. As small as he is now, he might do better with a smaller dose. Most cats start out at 1U and are raised 1/2u at a time. This way you don't miss the perfect dose for him or get a rebound effect where they get high numbers because the body doesn't know what to do with all that insulin, Somogyi Rebound, and can become hyperglycemic. There are some reading materials on it on the site. I'm going to get you some links and post them here for you so it's explained to you properly. A lot of vets go too fast with the insulin or don't know much about feline diabetes. If they are general vets they don't see a lot of it. This site is full of experts, including dr.s and some vets and others who have been dealing with it for years and live and breathe it. A vet that specializes in cats or who sees a lot of diabetic cats is worth searching for. Is there another vet at the practice who might know more?

The only reason I can think of is that the liquid antibiotics they usually give cats have sugar in them and the vets like to sell cat meds. You can have the same thing compounded at Walgreens without sugar using human grade medicine if he writes a script. A lot of doctors just don't like to give antibiotics unless the;y deem it necessary also, both human and vets. If there's another reeason I don't know it but I would ask. When I feel that Racci needs them, I insist. I tell them that she has a compromised immune system between the asthma and the diabetes and I want her to have it. period. Unless he has a good reason.

Not many of us have medical backgrounds. You just need patience and a willingness to learn. We all learned and if you can learn legal jargon you can certainly learn this. There are numerous videos and photos on how to test and how to give shots and we're all here and love to give our tips to make it easier for you. Once you start home testing, you will be much better able to see how he is and keep him safe. You'll know if he's too low to give a shot right now or if he's too high, if he's in danger or not. It will put you in much better control.

300's are not too bad for a new cat on insulin though so don't worry too much about that. I just worry about such a high dose for him without testing first. How many has he had so far? When is his next dose? We test before every shot usually so we know it's safe, especially with a new dose.

I'm going to check on Racci then I'll be right back and get you those links.

Melanie


Edit: I can't find the link to the spreadsheet instructions anywhere. Maybe someone will come and help me with it? In the meantime.
Do you have a Gmail account? I'm not sure if you need one. Go to igoogle.com and on the top there's a pull down menu/ documents and you should be able to see the public document for the FDMB '12/12 insulin template' . Right-click it and rename it to Telrey's SS or whatever you want and open it. I got the link but don't know if this will work: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...DRudXBoNFc2RUZWdE1xbUJYaFQ0WXc&hl=en_US#gid=0 Have to run and give Racci her meds. Will try to get back.
 
Telrey'sMom said:
Edit: I can't find the link to the spreadsheet instructions anywhere. Maybe someone will come and help me with it? In the meantime.
Do you have a Gmail account? I'm not sure if you need one. Go to igoogle.com and on the top there's a pull down menu/ documents and you should be able to see the public document for the FDMB '12/12 insulin template' . Right-click it and rename it to Telrey's SS or whatever you want and open it. I got the link but don't know if this will work: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... n_US#gid=0 Have to run and give Racci her meds. Will try to get back.
Click to expand...

I just gave Racci her meds and have just a little time before I have to run. The next step would be to go to the google document that you opened 'file' tab at .top of the document and click 'publish to the web'. A window will open with an url. Copy that url. On another tab, Open your profile for this site and go to 'signature' area. click in the signature area and paste the url there. If it already has the signs on either end, your set and just have to name it. If it doesnt, click in the beginning of it and use the url button on top and then select the second part ' [/url] ' and put it at the end with no spaces in between. Now you just have to name it. To name it, click after 'html' and insert the ' ] ' then you can put your name with a space before the ' [/url] ' symbol. and you should be okay there, I hope. I'm just not sure you can access it that way. save your changes. Go back to the other page, documents-spreadsheet. Sorry, forgot to tell you. Make sure it says sheets to publish 'all' & on the bottom 'web page' and 'all' in the areas where you choose. If it didn't then you better republish again and make sure the page url is the same. Check the box that says automatically republish and click on republish now. Go to one of your posts and see if your link shows up and test it. Let me know if it works. This is for the spreadsheet.

I see you were already given very impportant links on the lantus board on this thread by Squeem3. Please go back over the posts and look for it. This is important. It has to do with keeping Telrey safe while giving insulin.

Melanie
 
As for his teeth.... it is very important. There is a member Sev who had a very similar problem. The vet couldn't do cleaning until BG was lower, disagreed about other things. Well they changed vets quickly. The new vet had Kitty BG under control fast, did cleaning, finished antibiotics, & BAM off insulin. Sev & Kitty just celebrated their OTJ party last week.

Sev kept a really detailed SS. You can look at their SS.

Jenn & Baxter
 
Welcome!

Telrey'sMom said:
Thank you, Thank you!!

I am so happy he is eating, but his poop is so smelly. Have any of you had problems with smelly poop? Will this go away or is it just something I need to get used too? I have no problem with the smelly poop as long as he gets better!!

Telrey's Mom
Click to expand...

Here is a link to the whole thread of the raw diet and the one about smelly poop.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62141
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62626

I do PZI rather then Lantus so I can't help you there. Good luck and 300's is a great number for a newly diagnosed- Sneakers was flirting with 600's a week or so ago.
 
All - Thank you all for all the information and responses, it means so much to me. I have decided to get a second opinion this week, I will keep you posted!! Also, Rebecca is sending me a testing kit....excited and scared at the same time. Looked at Sev's numbers and read posts, very imformative. Will keep everyone posted on Telrey's progress.

Again you guys are so wonderful!!

Suzanne
 
Hi Suzanne,

I'm so glad your kit is on the way and you're going to see another vet. Did you ask if this one sees a lot of diabetic cats? Did you give that increased dose of 3u or decide to wait for the 2nd opinion? How is Telrey doing?

BTW, I looked at the link for the spreadsheet that Brian was kind enough to supply and the beginning part of my instructions were wrong. I wasn't sure if you needed google gmail. It's a google account you need, not the gmail. You should also take a look at the instructions. That way may be easier for you, especially if you're a mac user. I use right click a lot and they use control, c. and they get to the ss a different way. I could also send it to you and you could upload it to google docs which I had forgotten. Check it out when you have time. It will be good to have when you start testing. I usually jot the number down while testing and put it in the puter asap later. I keep a little pad & pen near my testing supplies. My memory stinks.

Well my turn to post for help. I need help figuring out what's going on with Racci. As usual she does the opposite of what most cats do. :lol: Let us know when you need some of that reading explained or have any questions you need answered about your boy or just need some moral support. Keep us posted on his progress and what the new vet says.

Melanie
 
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