Newly Diagnosed - Choosing Treatment

[carsoncassidy]

Hello Everyone!! My baby's name is Kate AKA Katekate, bubby, etc...

Kate hit 10 years young in April of this year. In the last two months, I noticed Kate drinking profusely, improperly eliminating, frequent urination and my baby lost four pounds!! Not to mention she looked like a scruffy cat! Her fur looked dingy and oily. Off to the vet we go! Initially the vet said it could be hyperthyroidism because she heard a small heart murmur. Blood draw number 1 and 20 minutes later, it's not her thyroid, but her glucose was peaked!!!! Blood draw number 2 goes off to the lab. I spoke with my vet today and it's confirmed. My baby is diabetic.

At the aforementioned visit, I inquired about treatment just incase she was diabetic. The vet mentioned Prozinc and said it was $95 a vial. :shock: But, this is my child so I have to, right? Well after finding this wonderful website!!!! *kudostoFD.com* I was armed with info when I talked to the vet today. She was impressed that I researched and was very excited that I was turning out to be one of the "good" pet owners. I told her that I had done some reading and that although Prozinc looked like a really great option, it was being discontinued. She said that yes, it was being discontinued. I offered to her the Lantus and Levemir insulins and where I had gotten the information. She said that she was going to do some research and that we could come up with a treatment plan together.

OK, so I feel good, right? NO!!! :? After reading a plethora of information, I think I'm more confused now than when I knew nothing about diabetes at all! Lantus, Levemir, NPH, rDNA, Humulin, lente insulin, etc! How do I know which is the right one? Prozinc had the Protamine in it, which is the P in NPH, so why isn't NPH good? Since there is now a lack of beef insulin most cats are started on human recombinant insulin. Why? ohmygod_smile What kind of diet is going to be best for Kate? And how do you manage this in a two cat household? My other cat, Shadow, is male, 3 years old, healthy as a horse and very active. He weighs in at a hefty 13 pounds, but he's just a BIG cat... His tail alone is 13 inches. Did I mention I also have two dogs. Thankfully, they have their own room and the back yard. No mixing of feeding times with them! Shew! Myra, female, lab, 1.5 years, 57 pounds and Titan, male, German Shep mix, 1.5 years, 125 pounds... He's enormous... like gigantor!

Back to Kate... I have always left her food out and made sure the bowl was full. She never had a weigh problem and ate just when she was hungry. March of this year she weighed in at 11 pounds. Vet said she was a little over and to cut out treats... done. August 3rd, she's 7 pounds and diabetic! I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. She was the only kitten of the stray living under my apartment "balcony" on the ground floor. Her mom, Cloe, would never let me touch her, but knew she could get food water and loving from afar, hence, she set up camp. I remember the first day I saw Kate. I was getting in my car headed to work and she poked her little Calico head out of the box hedge about 10 feet away. Cloe brought her to the porch and they stayed there. When she was weaned, I took Kate. Cloe willingly let her go. Kate went to the vet immediately and we've been inseperable ever since. She loves her mommy. Sleeps with me every night. I know what every cry, meow and purr means.

My point being: I guess I'm apprehensive about all of this. I have the hypoglycemia list printed off and have basically memorized it. I've researched foods, routines, glucometers, lancets, test strips, insulins, side effects, signs, symptoms, etc, etc, etc. The only problem I'm having is with the insulin... since they don't make one for cats, which do you choose?

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

ProZinc is not being discontinued. Here is a thread on the shortage issue:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=75758

No, NPH is not a good choice. It tends to be harsh and does not last as long as ProZinc, Levemir or Lantus. Levemir and Lantus are great insulins and good choices if your vet will prescribe them. But if you do decide on them, be sure to read up on the insulins and how to dose them in cats. Many vets are not aware of the research that has been done on using these human insulins for feline diabetes and how different it is from other insulins.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

Hi CarsonCassidy and Kate,
Welcome.
How wonderful that you are researching everything before hand.
I've been here exactly a month and I was like you, proactive.
I know the Levamir is supposed to be good but I'm on Lantus so I can only sing its praises.
Lantus can be confusing because it is a long acting insulin, it builds up in the system and creates a depot ( a reserve
that builds up )
Dosing is based on the nadir ( peak time - often 6 hrs after the shot) not your preshot glucose numbers.
It has a very high remission rate for cats that use it and use the TR (tightly regulated ) protocol. These are dosing
rules. You can also do a go low and slow more relaxed protocol.
Remission chances are highest if you start the insulin within the first months ( i think it was 6) of your cat developing
diabetes.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139
Here is some info on both levamir and lantus. Scroll down towards the bottom half and there are links that you
can print and share with your vet. ( I hope your vet is really going to read up)

As for diet changes. They help tremendously. You didn't tell us what the diagnosis glucose number was but
just changing to low carb, hi protein diets can reduce that glucose number by as much as 100 in the first days of
the food change.
And even though your other kitty isn't diabetic, the food change is good for him too. Cats don't need carbs.
The dry foods are packed with carbs because it is cheap filler to sell pet food.
Have you read http://www.catinfo.org/
If this article doesn't convince you..... She just presents it all so well.
Changing both kitties will be beneficial to both of them and will keep it simpler for you.... You don't have to feed them
different foods.

The time to make that change is before you even start the insulin. If you change foods after starting the insulin,
you will most likely be on too high a dose since Kate's glucose numbers will have dropped.
Be sure to have a new glucose number for determining the starting dosage.
It's best to start with a low starting dose on Lantus so you can monitor your cat and how the insulin is affecting her.
You will want to get a glucometer and start home testing right away.
We all have a spreadsheet where we keep our data available for anyone to look at.
There are many experienced folks here who will be able to advise you based on your cats data.

I hope your vet will be supportive and learn with you because you do have a good chance at remission since you caught
this so early.
Be sure and keep asking questions. Everyone here wants to help.! cat_pet_icon

In just the month I've been here and getting advised for the tight protocol, I have seen very quick progress with
my cat. I was lucky and have a vet who is current on all of this.

 

[Pumbaa]

Carsoncassidy:

First of all, kudos to you for all of the research you've done, and absorbed.

Secondly, it sounds like you have a WONDERFUL vet, and that alone is going to make your life easier.

Thirdly, none of the insulins are cheap, but ordering from Canada decreases the expense. I don't know where you are located, but ordering this time of year can be iffy due to the heat. If you decide on Lantus, you might want to check Craigslist.org to see if you can purchase one or two pens which is a lot more affordable than purchasing the pack of five. But do ask the seller how the pens were stored/cared for.

I started my Pumbaa on Lantus after all that I had read here before getting the ultimate diagnosis. (I, too, was hoping that it was just hyperthryroidism.) Four months into this, I am considering changing Pumbaa over to Levemir when he is out of Lantus, because Pumbaa is very bouncy, and, in some cats, they are less bouncy on the Levemir. There are some good discussions on these boards about the differences between Lantus and Levemir, since they are both long-lasting, 12-hour human insulins that work well on cats. Other differences include that Lantus can sting when injected, but Levemir supposedly doesn't. And Lantus (in some cats) peaks at 6 hours after the shot (meaning that would be the lowest BG reading of the cycle), but Levemir seems to peak later, meaning a later nadir/lowest reading of the cycle.

When you are starting out and trying to determine the best time to shoot, in 12 hour increments, you also have to take into account the BG testing, to check for those nadir numbers. Especially when your cat starts displaying low nadir numbers which could turn into hypoglycemia. I started out shooting at 6:15 am and pm. But recently discovered that changing to 7:15 am and pm actually made it easier for me to get a +6 (6 hours after the injection) reading at night.

I have two cats and a Border Collie. Pre-FD, both of my cats got some canned food in the morning, then had dry food to graze on the rest of the day. When I found out that Pumbaa had FD, I immediately took away all dry food for both of my boys, and they have both been on canned food (and some raw) ever since. Pumbaa put weight back on, but is much more muscular now, and he lost his carb-fat-belly. Larry also got sleeker. Both of them have much nicer fur now. I even changed the Border Collie's diet and took away her kibble and exchanged it for greek yoghurt, a pea/carrot/greenbean mixture, and cooked chicken on top. She's lost excess pounds, shows less signs of arthritis, and is much more active once again, even though she's now 10!

There are a lot of affordable canned cat foods out there that have low carbs. Lot's of people here serve Fancy Feast Classics, and Friskies Classic Pates. You want to stay away from any of the gravy foods, and there are several websites/charts you can look at to see what the % calories from carbs are. (I know someone will post the entire list of sites/charts available). Anyway, you might want to make the transition to all canned food before you start any insulin, as someone else already recommended, because then you won't have to worry that Kate is getting too much insulin when you take her carbs away. I spent one week after Pumbaa's diagnosis giving him just low carb food, to see if his numbers would come down naturally without insulin, as some do. But, alas, he still needed the insulin.

What have you decided on BG monitors? I just switched over to the Relion Prime because the test strips are WAY more affordable at $0.18/strip, then for any of the other BG monitors. The Relion Confirm/Micros are $0.36/strip if you purchase them from Walmart. This really has an impact on the budget if you go through 50 test strips a week, which is very easy to do.

Lancets and syringes I now order online at American Diabetes Wholesale because I have a better selection and can save a lot of money ordering through them. I've been very happy with the accuracy of the Monoject Ultra Comfort syringes, but a lot of people here love the Terumo Thinpro for accuracy and ease of use. I hated the Relion syringes, and wasted a LOT of insulin because of their poor markings and frequent air bubbles that wouldn't go away. But, some people here swear by the Relions and don't have the problems I had. Lancets were costing me $9.00/100 at the local pharmacy, but are $2.18/100 when I order them in quantity through ADW.

Hope that everything that people have posted, and will post, will help you deal with treating Kate for her FD. I was a basket case in the beginning, and everyone here has been so very helpful, which reduced my stress levels and anxiety greatly!

Suze

 

[max&emmasmommie]

Hi, and Welcome!

Yes, please change both your cats to a wet food diet with no more than 5 percent carbs. See http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html. I chose Wellness Turkey, Beef & Chicken, and Chicken because I can get the food in larger cans, and it's less expensive that way. You will not regret doing this for your non-diabetic cat. It will protect him from not only diabetes, but Chronic Renal Failure, too, and crystals in his bladder.

However, take it easy with the food change. My cat got very sick once, and it took me two weeks of shoving pills down his throat 2x a day to get him well. It was because my roommate gave him a different food suddenly without mixing the old food into the new food. I thought that's fine. He likes it anyway. Wrong. You need to mix a little of the new food with a lot of the old food, and change the ratio slowly until they are eating nothing but nw food. I'd start with no more than 25% new food for a full day, then 50/50, etc. You could even start lower such as 1/8 new 7/8 old for a full day, etc. I'd do that just because the cat is all ready stressed with the high BG and whatever is causing that high BG. (Have you ever had the cat's teeth cleaned? If not, I'd have the vet check on the health of his gums.)

I would make the food change first and then start giving insulin based on the BG you get after the change is complete. (This is unless your cat has a very high BG (such as over 350 more two hours after eating.) See http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabetes/ketoacidosis.htm. If your cat has an infection, a high BG, AND is not eating well it is more likely that he will get DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis), but most people on this board worry about it when a cat's BG is over 300 or 400 no matter what else is going on or not going on. I'd grab some Ketosticks when you get all the other stuff at the pharmacy.)

I would also suggest that you pick up about 4 or 5 small cans of higher carb foods in wet form such as those with 10% or higher carbs. These are to use if you have a hypo incident, and make sure you have a kit with: Karo syrup, an extra pack of 50 strips, an extra battery for your meter, an extra meter, about 25 lancets, and an oral syringe (like what you get in packages of baby medicine). The vet will give you an oral syringe (without a needle) if you ask. The syringe is for the unlikely event that you have to put Karo syrup where the sun don't shine. (Don't worry! If you ever have to do this the cat will not be aware you are doing it.) The oral syringe is also useful for making the cat eat high carb food if he's Completely Alert, but just won't eat it and you are worried sick. If he's at all woozy, walking like he's drunk, or about to pass out, don't put food in his mouth -- rub Karo syrup on his gums.

That's my two cents. Hope it helps.

By the way, I use Lantus, and I thinks it's great. You will want to read up on the Lantus Depot and at least be aware of the different (not worse, just different) dangers of hypoglycemia because of the depot/shed. It and Levemir are both much more convenient and easy to use for most cats and their servants than the other insulins from what I understand.

Good luck!

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

As others have mentioned, the key to getting your cat in remission is a slowing acting insulin (Lantus or Levemir), a low carb, canned diet (less than 10% carbs but preferably less than 8%), and regulation via daily home testing. Newly diagnosed cats that follow this treatment plan have an 84% remission rate.

I've attached an article for you to print out and give to your vet regarding Lantus (and Levemir), as well as the recommended dosing guidelines for those insulins.

Article:

Dosing guidelines: http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf

 

[carsoncassidy]

I talked to the vet and she did state that the ProZinc was listed as a shortage for now, but since the insulins for humans has taken a turn towards the rDNA insulin instead of the bovine insulin, it has caused a decreased the demand for the ProZinc, ergo... You see where this is going. I am going to ask the vet the pros and cons to Lantus and Levemir. I work full time and never come home for lunch so it would be almost impossible for me to check Kate 6 hours after feeding her. I work 6:00am to 2:30pm. I'll be getting up at 4:30am to feed, check BG and give a shot #1 of the day. I'm hoping I can time this to right before I leave for work, so I can check her as soon as I get home and get a good reading.If I cut out my lunch break, I can be home by 2:30 instead of 3. Shew! I have read up on both Lantus and Levemir from the actual chemistry make up issued by the company to drugs.com to webMD to anything else available.

When Kate was tested on the first blood test, I believe she was above 300, but I also couldn't guarantee that she hadn't eaten within the last 8 hours. I speculate because she doesn't like dry food anymore. I actually started both of them on wet food about 2 months ago. Shadow still eats dry food. He's a hungry boy. He's got to have Russian Blue in him. He's all grey, big boned and muscular. He's a whopping 13 pounds and doesn't really have any fat. He's just solid. Anyway, when we did the fructosamine test, her number was like 400? Honestly, I can't remember. We just got this diagnosis on Monday so we are frantically researching, well, I research, Kate chills by the water bowl and wants food. The vet said she would call me tomorrow armed with the research that she has done in the last two days. She is a really wonderful vet. She listens and wants to help the babies. The whole office always calls your pet "the baby". :mrgreen: They are all wonderful!

I have read up on remission... I'm actually hoping that I can facilitate that. I'm going to talk to the vet about this topic as well. Ask her which insulin, ProZinc, Lantus or Levemir would best jump start this. If it's ProZinc and I have to pay $95 a vial to get her healthy so I can then just maintain a healthy diet, then that's what I will do. Since I already feed Kate and Shadow wet food, they are used to it. It was a change... in the litter box arena. Phew wee! But I think their tummies have calmed down now. I fed them Fancy Feast, then switched to Friskes - Savory Shreds: with Beef in Gravy, with Chicken in Gravy and with Turkey and Cheese bits in Gravy. I found a calculator online: http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html and per the information I entered, a 5.5oz can has only 3% carbs. Can anyone verify this? Here's the guaranteed analysis: Crude protein 9.0%, crude fat 2.5%, crude fiber 1%, moisture 82%, and ash 2.5%. If the calculator is correct then I think I got a really awesome food for my babies... I'm just not sure if I'm reading it correctly. It also gives the following results: calories per oz. 18. I've read that a diabetic cat needs about 300 calories... any thoughts on this?

I read that humans perpetuate feline diabetes by making the BG norm greater than 120-150, but that most cats are happy at a BG of 60-100. And about this Raw Meat Only Diet? I read that a brand new diabetes Dx often responds to a change in diet alone b/c the pancreas has not gone dormant from chronic hyperglycemia; however, with Kate's elevated BG reading, I would like to get a more accurate reading on her BG levels over a period of time. Now, assuming I go with raw meat, what meats? Is it safe? What about Salmonella, E. coli, and mercury? How should I make this transition? I know that this is a part of the "Tight Regulation" method used at the beginning to get the cat's BG under control.

I have also read that if the cat has a reading below 200, you should consider skipping a dose... I know "why", but then when should you retest and possibly continue with the insulin?

As far as a glucometer, Walmart carries ReliOn, the lancets are cheap and the test strips are $36 per 100ct. That seems to be the best value I have found so far. I wanted to get the Accu Check Micro, but the test strips are $130 for 100 of them. I am going to do a little more research and see which one requires the least amount of blood and which has the smallest gauged lancet. I'm going to try and make this as atraumatic for Kate as I can. As for this, where are the best testing sites? I know that the scruff of the neck doesn't have sufficient blood flow, but I have also reasoned that I cannot test on her paws. I can't send her into the litter box with what is technically an open wound.

Also... I haven't read on this whole concept of nadir... obviously, I have some additional reading to do tonight. I have read how to dose Lantus and Levemir, but haven't read completely on the nadir.

Here's the websites I have book marked: (no worries... I have the hypoglycemia memorized and printed out). I will also be printing out all of the information provided by you guys.

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

http://www.askthecatdoctor.com/

http://www.mycathasdiabetes.com/index.html

http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabetes/education_index.htm

http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/protocol.html

http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6importantfactors.htm

http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

 

[carsoncassidy]

Ok, after reading on catinfo.org, the carbs are calculated at 6 per 5.5oz can... geez, why can't they just put that on there? ohmygod_smile

 

[carsoncassidy]

Oh My Hey-Zeus... ok, when I calculated the calories (using the catinfo.org formulas) for Friskies - Savory Shreds w/ Beef in Gravy, I came up with 63.25 Calories per can, but the ScheyderWeb calculator says that it's actually 64 per 100g. A can 5.5 oz is 156g. Is that even possible? Only 63.25 calories per can? Or do the companies base the guarateed analysis on 100 grams? I don't see that as feasible, but then again, I never thought I would have to use my MBA to figure out what to feed my cat! ohmygod_smile It doesn't look like they do, but then again, I have been wrong... at least once in my life time! :lol:

http://www.friskies.com/Cat-Food/Wet-Cat-Food/Savory-Shreds-With-Beef-In-Gravy

 

[squeem3]

I fed them Fancy Feast, then switched to Friskes - Savory Shreds: with Beef in Gravy, with Chicken in Gravy and with Turkey and Cheese bits in Gravy.

You don't want to feed gravy foods to a diabetic cat because the carb content is too high which means high blood glucose level. Gravies need a thickener of some sort and it's the thickener that makes the carb content high. However, you do want to feed gravy based foods to a hypoglycemic cat because it will raise blood glucose levels.

Use the food charts to find low carb canned foods. There are many low carb Friskies and Fancy Feast varieties as well as many other brands.

Binky's canned food charts
Pet Food Nutritional Values list
Hobo's Guide To Nutritional Values
Dr. Lynne's Wet Food list
List of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast

On Binky's charts, stick with foods that have a number 10 or less in the carbs colum. On the Pet Food Nutritional Values Chart and Hobo's Guide, look at the %kcal from carbs column and choose foods that have a number 10 or less.

I found a calculator online: http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html and per the information I entered, a 5.5oz can has only 3% carbs. Can anyone verify this? Here's the guaranteed analysis: Crude protein 9.0%, crude fat 2.5%, crude fiber 1%, moisture 82%, and ash 2.5%. If the calculator is correct then I think I got a really awesome food for my babies... I'm just not sure if I'm reading it correctly. It also gives the following results: calories per oz. 18. I've read that a diabetic cat needs about 300 calories... any thoughts on this?

The guaranteed values on pet food labels are pretty useless. Binky's charts and Hobo's chart uses "as fed" values that are obtained from pet food manufacturers. The scheyderweb site gives a rough guess of what the nutritional content of a food may be. I wouldn't use it to determine exact nutritional content.

I read that humans perpetuate feline diabetes by making the BG norm greater than 120-150, but that most cats are happy at a BG of 60-100.

Many non-diabetic cats test under 100 and that's normal :smile: Some may even test as low as the 40s. Ideally a diabetic cat should stay in the range of 6o to 150 with insulin and diet.

And about this Raw Meat Only Diet? I read that a brand new diabetes Dx often responds to a change in diet alone b/c the pancreas has not gone dormant from chronic hyperglycemia; however, with Kate's elevated BG reading, I would like to get a more accurate reading on her BG levels over a period of time. Now, assuming I go with raw meat, what meats? Is it safe? What about Salmonella, E. coli, and mercury? How should I make this transition? I know that this is a part of the "Tight Regulation" method used at the beginning to get the cat's BG under control.

A raw food diet isn't necessary for TR. Some people here do feed their diabetic cats raw food for resons like the cat has food allergies, more cost effective than buying commerical food, better for the cat's health, etc.


Raw meat on it's own isn't enough for a cat. It doesn't have all the important vitamins and minerals a cat needs. There various ways to feed raw food. There are commerical brands of raw pet foods available. Many are grain-free and are suitable to be fed to a diabetic cat. Some brands are not 100% nutritiionally complete, usually the freeze dried raw, so be sure to read the label. Nature's Variety Instinct has a good frozen raw food that can be fed to a diabetic. Another way to feed raw is tofollow a good recipie such as the one at Catinfo.org Anotehr way is to buy raw meats from the supermarket or butcher shop, grind it up at home yourself, and add in a premix such as TC Instinct. The premix contains all the vitamins and minerals. There is also the "frankenprey model" raw diet which is feeding 80% raw meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs.

Chicken is a popular meat to use for raw food. Rabbit, turkey, quail are others. Hare-Today.com is a popular place to buy raw meats for use in pet food.

I think Catinfo.org has more info on bacteria concerns in raw food. if you buy your raw meat from a good reputable source, then you don't need to worry about anything. And follow safe handling practices: washing everything that touches raw meat with hot soapy water, don't let raw meat sit out for hours, etc.

I have also read that if the cat has a reading below 200, you should consider skipping a dose... I know "why", but then when should you retest and possibly continue with the insulin?

You could wait up to 30 minutes later. If the bg goes up over 200, then give insuiln. If it doesn't, just skip the insuiln shot. Your cat will be fine :smile: Bgs will likely be higher at the next insulin time but do not give more insulin. Just give the usual amount.

I wanted to get the Accu Check Micro, but the test strips are $130 for 100 of them.

AccuChek doesn't make a Micro meter. Prehaps you are thinking of the Aviva? Test strips for the Aviva are pricey but you can get a better deal by buying them online.

I am going to do a little more research and see which one requires the least amount of blood and which has the smallest gauged lancet.

Acutally, you don't want a thin lancet. You want at thick lancet, around 28 gauge. The really thin lancets are pretty hard to get enough blood from a cat's ear with. Some meters come with lancet devices that use the thin lancets. Yon can jsut buy a separate lancet device that uses thicker lancets or just buy thicker lancets and freehand them. Some people find that freehanding the lancet without the device is easiest.

Look for a meter that uses 0.3 ul or 0.6 ul of blood. Here's a chart you can use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjcBiiIVLby8dDUzZmMzUmNmVUtWWERST2xidWxnUVE and http://forecast.diabetes.org/files/images/v65n01_BG_Meters_0.pdf

Also... I haven't read on this whole concept of nadir... obviously, I have some additional reading to do tonight. I have read how to dose Lantus and Levemir, but haven't read completely on the nadir.

Nadir is when the blood glucose levels drops to the lowest point in a cycle. It's usally around 6 hours after the insuiln shot.

http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/protocol.html

Many old-timer FDMB members don't think very highly of the YourDiabeticCat.com web site. Some of the information posted there are not ideal for certain insulins.

 

[Pumbaa]

As far as a glucometer, Walmart carries ReliOn, the lancets are cheap and the test strips are $36 per 100ct. That seems to be the best value I have found so far.

Walmart just started carrying the Relion Prime a couple of weeks ago. The test strips for the Prime are the MOST affordable at $9.00/50 or $18.00/100. I was using the Relion Micro previous to switching over to the Prime, and have had no problems with the Prime. (And love the 50% less expense of the test strips.)

Suze

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

I'm betting you are referring to the new Accu-chek Nano.
I think it just came out. Accu-chek website says "introducing the Nano"

I have the aviva plus. I think all of their meters use the same strips.
If cost of test strips is important to you..... My strips are running 45 cents each from the major diabetic supply stores.

 

[hmjohnston]

I work full time and never come home for lunch so it would be almost impossible for me to check Kate 6 hours after feeding her. I work 6:00am to 2:30pm. I'll be getting up at 4:30am to feed, check BG and give a shot #1 of the day. I'm hoping I can time this to right before I leave for work, so I can check her as soon as I get home and get a good reading.If I cut out my lunch break, I can be home by 2:30 instead of 3.

That's what I do- wake up early and give her a test and AM shot, get a test out the door, go to work and come home in time to test and give her PM shot. I try to get more evening tests in since I am not here in the day.

When Kate was tested on the first blood test, I believe she was above 300, but I also couldn't guarantee that she hadn't eaten within the last 8 hours. I speculate because she doesn't like dry food anymore. I actually started both of them on wet food about 2 months ago.
We just got this diagnosis on Monday so we are frantically researching, well, I research, Kate chills by the water bowl and wants food.

We consider a cats BG # fasting if they have gone 2-3 hours without food prior to testing. Most take up the food dish or have the feeder turn to an empty slot in order to get that. And it is GREAT to have a vet that will actually do research. I had a lazy first vet but my second vet is much more in tune with the newest FD articles. And hungry is to be expected as the FD is making it hard for her body to get the necessary nutrients out of her food- so she will want, and need, more food right now. It will slow down as she gets better numbers and her FD gets under control but it might take some time. If you add water to their canned food that will help hydrate them the way they normally should get moisture- while eating.

I have read up on remission... I'm actually hoping that I can facilitate that.

Lantus and Levemir stand the better at remission- I think it is 86% and 85% respectively. PZI is less than that but there have been MANY on the PZI board that have gone into remission- the trick is to start early and methodically. Those on the boards have experience so keep asking for advice. It might be hard to take their advice over your understanding vet but remember that we deal with FD daily and it is the ONLY thing we deal with. Vets have so many other animals and diseases that they have to know about. Hopefully your vet will not feel threatened but treat our resource as an asset.

Since I already feed Kate and Shadow wet food, they are used to it. It was a change... in the litter box arena. Phew wee! But I think their tummies have calmed down now.

Generally anything with gravy is high carb. FF classics are mostly under 10% carb but the roasted, grilled, and gravies are medium to high carbed and do not need to be used. If it has wheat, flour, rice in it near the top it probably isn't good for FD. Binky's list (first hyperlink you have) lists a lot of foods and they are updating it into Hobo's list for 2012. Because it is not required by the FDA pet companies do not put carbs on the labels and only a percentage RANGE (you see the words "Up to" and "Guaranteed to be"- not AS FED values- which is what we use to calculate the actual carbs of the foods.

And, YES, it leads to a STINKY litter box. But, as they get used to the canned there should be less in it. Dry food is basically air filled candy with some nutritious bits added in there to show 'quality'. They eat a lot of air, eat a lot of dry because it is air, so they poop alot. There is someone on the board who had 13 cats and they are ALL on wet. She got some dry in and gave it to her civvies (non-FD cats) and rued it well as they all had to go and go and go... Now she says there will be no more dry at all in that house :lol: .

I read that humans perpetuate feline diabetes by making the BG norm greater than 120-150, but that most cats are happy at a BG of 60-100.

Most vets are fine if a cat is REGULATED, meaning the AM & PM PS's tests are between 150-200 and the nadirs, lowest parts, are around 100 or even under. Pet owners who are HOME TESTING can actually go further and try for remission- meaning they can, with the data to back them up, shoot at lower PS's to achieve lower nadirs. Usually all the pancreas needs is healing time and it can and will start to work again. That requires getting specialized advice on shooting and that comes from people who have been there. Dosing the L's are based more on the nadirs than the pre-shots so it is important to get those in.

And about this Raw Meat Only Diet? Now, assuming I go with raw meat, what meats? Is it safe? What about Salmonella, E. coli, and mercury? How should I make this transition?

I do the raw meat. Catinfo.org has a wonderful recipe to use. If you want to try that route let me know as I condensed her instructions to a one-page list of ingredients and methods. I don't do the raw only- Sneakers prefers change and variety. She does get 5-6 oz/ day of it- usually in her feeder while I am at work. Her poop smells better with the raw diet than on canned- BIG difference!!! Now that she is half and half it just depends on how long it was since she ate the raw :lol: .
The change in diet from a high to a low carb can cause a remission and has in many cats. Some only need insulin for a very short time as the pancreas has time to heal and starts to work again.
Meats- Chicken and beef- but do not buy them pre-ground as any bacteria on the surface of the meat would have been ground into the whole thing. I buy chicken thighs and freeze them. Put them in the fridge 24 hours before making the recipe and cut the meat off the bone while they are still mostly frozen- thawed enough for the knife to cut. Chunk it into the best size for the grinder and then I slightly bake 20 minutes, stirring the chunks at the 10 minute mark to cook off any bacteria. THEN I grind it with the eggs and liver, add the minerals and water, mash together and freeze it in ice cube trays. After frozen I place them in baggies and keep them frozen until it is time to put them in the freezer.
No pork, the original recipe says to use turkey, rabbit, quail. I'd like to get some deer meat this year and try it with that. If you don't want to make it all you can buy the starter kits.
Transition slowly like the other foods as cold turkey switch can upset tummies for a while.

I have also read that if the cat has a reading below 200, you should consider skipping a dose... I know "why", but then when should you retest and possibly continue with the insulin?
As far as a glucometer, Walmart carries ReliOn, the lancets are cheap and the test strips are $36 per 100ct. That seems to be the best value I have found so far. I wanted to get the Accu Check Micro, but the test strips are $130 for 100 of them. I'm going to try and make this as atraumatic for Kate as I can. As for this, where are the best testing sites? I know that the scruff of the neck doesn't have sufficient blood flow, but I have also reasoned that I cannot test on her paws. I can't send her into the litter box with what is technically an open wound.

Until you have enough data to know how low Kate can go, we tell new people to skip the dose. With data you will be able to make a better educated decision but it all hangs on home testing. The Relion brand is a great one. Micro and Confirm use the smallest amount of blood and the strips are the cheapest. There is a new kind of Relion called the Prime that just came out with strips $9/50. On the micro/confirm you can order from ADW and get 250/$72.
As a new tester you actually want to get the lower # guage to start out with- it leaves a bigger hole and you actually have a better chance to get enough blood the first time or two. Once the capillaries have come into the 'sweet spot' then you can buy the larger numbers and still get blood. And I think ADW have lancets for cheaper, too. Testing spots are the ears and the paws. The ear is where most people test- they don't have a lot of nerve endings there and the capillaries will come. But give a treat after each test or shot so they learn a little pain equals yummy noms. Most cats will do ANYTHING for yummy noms- low carb ones are freeze-dried foods- beef, chicken, shrimp.

 

[max&emmasmommie]

Hi. You wrote:

. . . where are the best testing sites? I know that the scruff of the neck doesn't have sufficient blood flow, but I have also reasoned that I cannot test on her paws.

Here's a video of a guy testing his cat's blood from the ear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

The cat's ear is black. So, it's a little hard to see what the guy is talking about. There's a vein that runs along the edge of the ear, and it swoops toward the cat's head at one point and then swoops back out to the edge of the ear. You can shine a flashlight through the cat's ear to really see this vein and the space for putting the lancet.

You want to stick the lancet all the way through the cat's ear in that little space between the vein and the edge of the ear. Put a piece of cotton or something behind the cat's ear or you Will poke yourself. It really hurts humans to test, but I'm guessing it's something like getting your ear pierced for cats. If you accidentally hit the vein, it will bleed like crazy. The cat may shake his head and fling the blood everywhere, too. So, don't do this on your favorite sofa with your favorite blouse on. (Hydrogen peroxide gets fresh blood out quite well, but you can't use it on all fabrics because it might take the dye out too.)

If you don't see blood on the ear right away that doesn't mean you didn't do it right. You can milk the ear by putting your fingers on either side of the outer part of the edge of the ear near the head and running them up the edge toward the place you poked. Do this several times and you will see a bead of blood appear eventually if you got the right spot.

Be ready for after the test to fold the cotton over both sides of the hole you made in the ear, and press for about a count to 10 to stop the bleeding. If you don't do this, the ear may bruise, and it will hurt the cat more when you have to test again.

 

[Pumbaa]

You want to stick the lancet all the way through the cat's ear in that little space between the vein and the edge of the ear.

I don't poke through Pumbaa's ear. I hold the lancet on an angle and try to just prick the skin enough to get the necessary drop of blood. His ears are much less beat-up this way.

Suze

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

You definitely want a 26-28g lancet, not the thin ones that come with the meter. Cats have very few nerve endings in their ears (less than people have in their fingertips) so poking does not hurt them. What they don't like in the beginning is being restrained, having their human doing something new and strange to them, and sensing that their human is nervous and scared. Give a low carb treat (most of use freeze dried 100% chicken/salmon treats that you can easily find in the dog or cat treat section of most pet stores) after every test and eventually the cat will tolerate testing, and possibly even anticipate and ask you for it. Bandit fought me pretty hard in the beginning so I had to wrap him up in a blanket to test him; now he comes running, lies down and starts purring when he hears the glucose meter beep on.

The most important part of meter selection is getting one with strips cheap enough to allow you to test several times a day. Don't worry about the Aviva vs. the Relion if the pricier strips will limit the frequency of your testing, because frequent testing is the most important consideration. Both are good meters, so go with the cheapest strips.

I work a full time job with a two hour commute, a weekend part time job, and I was still in grad school when Bandit was on Lantus. Because of my commute, I could not make it home M-F to test him mid cycle (He got his shots at 7am/7pm, so mid-cycle was around 1pm/1am). There are two cycles in a day, so you don't have to get that daily mid-cycle check in the AM cycle every day--the PM cycle works just fine. I would get home from work, test and shoot at 7pm, test again at 10-11pm before bed, and then set an alarm to get up for 5 minutes and get the test at 1am, and then go right back to bed. Yes, it was a minor inconvenience for me, but it was 100% worth the small temporary effort for the payoff of getting him into remission, because now I only have to test once or twice a month or so and not give insulin shots. On the weekends when I was home during the day, I would get a curve (testing every 2 hours for a twelve hour cycle), and extra random tests. The more data you can collect, the more information you have to better get his BG under control. This is true regardless of insulin, so even if you get Prozinc (Lantus and Levemir are 1st choice if you have the option, though), you will still want to get mid-cycle checks so that you know how the insulin is working in the cat. Preshot tests alone do not tell you if a dose is too high or low because a cat on too much insulin will have preshot numbers that are just as high as a cat on too little insulin. It's not shooting insulin blind (that would be not testing at all), but more like shooting with one eye closed--it's going to much more difficult to hit your mark.

Getting good control over your cat's BG is what leads to remission. The way you get good control is through accurate dosing decisions based on your testing data, so the more data you collect, the more accurate your dosing will be. We all need to live our lives and cannot possibly be expected to test frequently around the clock, but with a little extra effort and some creative scheduling, getting enough data to safely and accurately administer insulin is not difficult at all.

 

[max&emmasmommie]

I hold the lancet on an angle and try to just prick the skin enough to get the necessary drop of blood. His ears are much less beat-up this way.

I tried the ear prick in the beginning, and couldn't get any blood. Now, I can. If you can get blood that way, great. One thing that you will not like about going all the way through if that if the cat suddenly jerks, the lancet will rip through the ear. That only happened to me a couple of times.

 

[MayBTheresHope]

Okay, welcome! I've only been here 3.5 months, but have a diabetic cat that just went off the juice, thanks to the people on this board. So here is my advice for what it is worth....

1. Don't make it too complicated! It will just stress you out even more than you already are and a stressed human = a stressed kitty! In the beginning all of the info is sooooo overwhelming. Take it as it comes and stick with the basics....low carb canned food (don't worry about calories, just the carbs), small frequent meals, low insulin doses to start, frequent BGL testing and recording, etc.

2. When it comes to taking the advice of your vet verses these guys, listen to the people here. Your vet sounds much more open minded than mine is. Even so,these guys have more experience with FD than most vets. Had I listened to my vet, my cat might be dead now. He STILL doesn't believe that Max is in remission b/c he has never seen a cat with FD go into remission. He doesn't want to do an exam for free so that I can prove it to him, either, and I'm not paying $60 just to try to convince him b/c I don't think that it would anyway.

3. Don't worry about the cost of ProZinc or its availability. The vial lasts forever. I had my vial for 3 months and wasn't anywhere close to using it all up when Max went into remission. Besides, the odds are in your favor that you cat will be in remission before the first vial is finished if you heed the advice of the people here.

4. After a few days of testing and seeing what canned food with less than 5% carbs does for your cat, start on a very low dose of insulin and work your way up, NOT the other way around. My vet started me out at 1.5u PZI. After finding these boards and starting over when 1.5u was causing all sorts of problems, I dropped the dose to .2u. It wasn't long after that that his numbers started to drop. I did increase to .4u, then .6u for a very short time to get the numbers even lower, but then I ended up back at the .2u in the end.

5. BUY AN AUTOMATIC FEEDER! This is what I believe helped Max the most. I started feeding him 6 small meals a day (splurge and get the 5 meal feeder...so worth it) and within 2 days, we were at the 150 and below range where I couldn't give him anymore insulin. He hasn't had any insulin since.

6. Buy lots of low carb kitty treats and don't stress about hurting your cat when you get blood from their ear (btw, it is a pain in the arse at first, but after you do it for a few days, it gets MUCH easier). Max comes running when he hears the glucometer beep, b/c he LOVES his treats. When I sit on the floor to test him, he actually backs up between my legs so that I can prick he ear. As long as he is getting the treat, he is a happy kitty and doesn't care about the poking and prodding.

7. Relion meter/strips work just as well as anything else. My vet had me purchase an alphatrax meter.....grrrrrrrrrrr. The meter was expensive but the cost of the strips is ridiculous. As much as you will be testing, you don't want to have to purchase strips that cost an arm and a leg.

8. Do frequent glucose curves on your days off, especially in the beginning. The more data that you collect, the more that people here can help you.

9. Monitor his water bowl and urine output. Those will be really good indicators of his progress, as well.

10. Give lots of pets and hugs. Max and I rebonded throughout all of this. I have a three year old and Max wasn't getting as much attention as he used to get before she came along. Now, we are better friends and he sleeps with me again at night.

Good luck!

 

[Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)]

I talked to the vet and she did state that the ProZinc was listed as a shortage for now, but since the insulins for humans has taken a turn towards the rDNA insulin instead of the bovine insulin, it has caused a decreased the demand for the ProZinc, ergo... You see where this is going.

A little on the history of PZI/Prozinc, and maybe your vet confused you a little.

There used to be an insulin called Idexx PZI Vet - it was bovine/porcine based, and the claim was that it more closely mirrored feline natural insulin than any other insulin available at the time. That product is no longer made, and apparently the issue back then was that porcine components were no longer easily available.

So then pharmacies and factories started making the next generation of PZI, which was 100% bovine in nature. It was mostly made by compounding pharmacies, and is usually referred to as "Compounded PZI". The biggest sources were VPA and BCP. I don't think VPA makes it anymore, but it is available from BCP, though it looks like it is usually out of stock (and if I had to guess, it's not going to be around much longer).

When Idexx PZI vet was discontinued, today's Prozinc hit the market in 2009. It was/is made by Boehringer

ProZinc is formulated exactly like its predecessor PZI Vet, with the exception of RHdna replacing the 90% bovine/10% porcine pancreatic materials.

Prozinc, Lantus and Levemir are all rDNA insulins, and Prozinc does not include any pig or cow parts. Lantus and Levemir are human insulins that happen to work really well on cats. Prozinc is specially formulated for cats, and can't be used on humans.

Here is a link that gives general information about different insulin types. Please keep in mind that it shows a bias towards PZI/Prozinc because it comes off a site that advocates using the Hodgkin's TR protocol, and it is Dr. Hodgkin's insulin of choice. But it does explain the differences between Prozinc, Lantus and NPH (which is formulated to match canine insulin and while it may work for dogs, doesn't work well for cats). Also, please disregard the dosing scales, because they do not resemble the dosing protocols used or recommended here. My reason for linking there is to give you an idea of the differences between the insulin types.
http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/COK/InsulinScales.htm

There is still a high demand for Prozinc, caused in part by the apparent "going away" of compounded PZI, and many vets are finding it hard to get Prozinc due to a shorage of protamine (whatever that is!). My vet recently switched her clients from compounded PZI due to lack of availability, and now she's running into the Prozinc shortage. I'm thinking many vets have had the same experience.

. If it's ProZinc and I have to pay $95 a vial to get her healthy so I can then just maintain a healthy diet, then that's what I will do.

Insulin prices caused sticker shot for all of us! (well maybe not for compounded PZI folks like me who got his first vial for under $55 including overnight shipping). It is the initial outlay of cash for the insulin that is the biggest expense in managing the diabetes (well, if you discount the outrageous vet bills..).

I'm not sure exactly how much the first batch of Lantus or Levemir pens is, but I think it is over $200? Sounds crazy, but keep in mind that the 5 pens are going to last a really long time, as will the first 10ml vial of Prozinc. On a cost-per-day basis, I think the "L" pens are actually cheaper than the Prozinc vials, because keep in mind how tiny the doses of insulin really are. One pen can last for months. My vial of PZI expired before it was all gone. Luckily my cat went into remission before the expiration date, so it didn't matter to me, but it's still in my fridge as a souvenir!

Carl

 

[hmjohnston]

My first pack of Lev costed $275 and change. $50.75 for each pen (have to buy all 5) plus tax. Picked it up at my regular pharmacy. Shopping around does help- I could have gone across town and gotten it for $48.90 at Sams and saved almost $10 :lol: .

My second pack of Lev costed $125 WITH shipping- from Canada via Turkey. Going by her numbers it is very viable and it came VERY well packaged with multiple cold boxes and in a styrafoam cooler. Was room temp but the cold stuff still had condensation on it. Was NOT 100+ considering that it got here in 115+ heat index heat. You do need to sign up and order first and then print off the prescription sheet for your vet to fax back to them. It takes a while, though. 2-3 weeks- so if you decide I would order ASAP so it would get there in time.

Lantus is probably the same way.

The plus for the pens- there are 5 3ml pens in the package and they are smaller than the 10ml vial. If you have a low dosage kitty (sigh ) it can take you over a month to use one vial- large up front cost but you have it for almost the whole year. My pharmacy calculated that .5u would last 258 days BID- 8 months. I think someone else said that came out to $15/month for them. Plus, if it becomes contaminated during the usage you can toss it and only loose the 3ml minus whatever you had used already- the vial could contaminate and you would loose the whole batch PLUS you might not use the whole vial before it poops out in terms of viability. Both have a listed 'life expectancy' once you stick the first syringe in. The pen- 45 days if kept on the COUNTER. We make them last a whole lot longer by keeping them in the fridge in a steady surface (no door storage) and away from the freezer section. You can use a pen to the last drop- and many do.

Hope this helps.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

A vial of Lantus is $130, and a pack of 5 pens $244. Despite the higher initial cost, the pens are more economical in the long run. A vial will last you at least one month before it's ineffective, but it can last up to 6 months if you're handling it properly and lucky. Mine lasted less than 2. A pack of 5 pens will last you at the very least 6 months, but more likely a year or more. They're more economical because you're using almost every drop of insulin before it goes bad, where you're throwing a lot of insulin away with the vials.

There's a $25 off coupon for Lantus pens here: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=36964, which will make the pens $219. You have to fill out a short survey but just fill it out with whatever and get the coupon. These are Walmart/Wegmans prices that I'm quoting you, where it's the cheapest. Costco also has it for about the same price. Some pharmacies (CVS and Rite Aid for example) charge much more, so make sure you're calling around if you don't have a discount pharmacy like Walmart or Costco near you.

The unopened pens keep in the fridge until the expiration date on the box, which is usually several years away.

 

[carsoncassidy]

ok, I read *everyone's* replies!! Thank you so much! This is great information... I did hear from the vet today. Good news and bad news.

The good: She contacted an endocrinologist for kitties... (i believe my vet studied at Auburn University which has a wonderful vet school). What she recommended is this: Since Kate's fructosamine test was just barely outside the normal range, 478 as a high, she recommends Purina DM. They both think that this can bring Kate back to her normal self and normal numbers. Now, she does swear by the dry food, but I am sticking by the wet food.

The bad: I can't find this stuff anywhere!!!! $40 for 24 5.5oz cans and shipping from the limited places I've found it is at least $20. Another issue... I want to just put Shadow and Kate on the same food, but if I feed them both the canned food it will cost a small fortune and at least half of the cost is on shipping!

So... should I get dry food and wet food? Where can I get it? How can I lower the shipping cost, if possible. Now, the vet did call around 6:30pm, so I am going to call around to all the local vets tomorrow to see if anyone has this food. She did say there are alternatives, Royal Canin DM or Science Diet DM, if I can't find it. The reason I consider canned and dry food is because Shadow prefers dry food but Kate prefers the canned stuff. I'm really glad the we are starting with a conservative treatment and that Kate's numbers are within reason for just a diet change. We, the vet and I, are very hopeful for a full recovery without insulin. She even went so far as to give me her direct contact since she's going to be out of town at a confrence in Birmingham, AL just in case.

As far as the testing, great info. I didn't know you could test the ears. Luckily, Kate's veins are very visible even though she's a calico and mostly black. I also did not know that a bigger lancet would be more preferable. Again, fantastic info!! Kate is used to me doing stuff to her. I hold her like a baby and cut her nails... have since she was my little bubby. I never even considered the Lantus pens... but they make so much sense. Lower risk of contamination, ease of dosing, etc. I'm so glad you brought this to my attention. It makes so much sense now. I have been monitoring her urine output. Great thing about my litterbox... The Breeze system. It has pads in a tray and the urine falls thru. Also good thing for me... Kate and Shadow do not share their litterbox. Kate has hers and Shadow has his. I can't 100% guarantee that they don't use each other's but from years of use, I can say that they prefer their own.

As far as Kate, she's doing very well. If anyone thought she was spoiled before, they should see her now! My little diabetic diva... Kate has been sleeping with me for 10 years. She meows at me to turn the alarm off and when I get up, she steals my spot! I sleep on my side with a body pillow. She sleeps in the crook of my hip pretty much in my stomach. If I roll over, she puts her feet on my back. She always got to be touching mommy.

The vet did say that if we had to go to insuling treatment that she would recommend the Lantus.

I probably sound like I'm ADD, but I was going back trying to address all of the great info you provided. That being said... I'm going to curl up with my kitty and get some shut eye. This pet owner is very happy! Thank you!

Shew, I feel much better now with all of this information!

 

[squeem3]

The good: She contacted an endocrinologist for kitties... (i believe my vet studied at Auburn University which has a wonderful vet school). What she recommended is this: Since Kate's fructosamine test was just barely outside the normal range, 478 as a high, she recommends Purina DM. They both think that this can bring Kate back to her normal self and normal numbers. Now, she does swear by the dry food, but I am sticking by the wet food.

The bad: I can't find this stuff anywhere!!!! $40 for 24 5.5oz cans and shipping from the limited places I've found it is at least $20. Another issue... I want to just put Shadow and Kate on the same food, but if I feed them both the canned food it will cost a small fortune and at least half of the cost is on shipping!

So... should I get dry food and wet food? Where can I get it? How can I lower the shipping cost, if possible. Now, the vet did call around 6:30pm, so I am going to call around to all the local vets tomorrow to see if anyone has this food. She did say there are alternatives, Royal Canin DM or Science Diet DM, if I can't find it.

You don't ned to feed ANY prescription food, dry or canned. The ingredients are junk and many cats get bored of eating it after awhile. Many vets push the prsecription food because they don't know much about proper nutrition. Some even get commission for selling the products. I'm surprised your vet is telling you to buy the prscripion food online. Most vets sell the stuff in their office.

The vet who holds the patent for Purina DM doesn't even recommend the food to any client. You might want to read Dr. Lisa's opinions on Purina DM in this recent thread: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76424

Most everyone here just feeds low carb commerical canned foods: Fancy Feast, Friskies, Wellness, Merrick, etc. The link to the food charts/lists have been posted in one of the reponses above.

The vet did say that if we had to go to insuling treatment that she would recommend the Lantus.

Lantus is a good insulin choice. You can read the info stickies on the Lantus baord to learn how the insulin works for cats: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

 

[carsoncassidy]

You don't ned to feed ANY prescription food, dry or canned. The ingredients are junk and many cats get bored of eating it after awhile. Many vets push the prsecription food because they don't know much about proper nutrition. Some even get commission for selling the products. I'm surprised your vet is telling you to buy the prscripion food online. Most vets sell the stuff in their office.

The vet who holds the patent for Purina DM doesn't even recommend the food to any client. You might want to read Dr. Lisa's opinions on Purina DM in this recent thread: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76424

Most everyone here just feeds low carb commerical canned foods: Fancy Feast, Friskies, Wellness, Merrick, etc. The link to the food charts/lists have been posted in one of the reponses above.

My vet doesn't carry the food which is why she refered me to the internet. I think that I'm going to look into the higher end OTC foods available at Petsmart or Petco. It will save money and like you said, give her more of a variety.

Uh oh.. I got busted doing this laptop_smiley so Kate is angry(2)_cat and now I have to cat_pet_icon

 

[Pumbaa]

I wasted a ton of $$$$$ initially buying overpriced canned food for my two cats, simply because I didn't trust the outdated data in many of the spreadsheets. Not when I was seeing things like sweet potatoes and cranberries, etc., in the ingredients.

So I started contacting the pet food manufacturers asking for the as fed values, and then started updating the "Pet Food Nutritional Values Comparison - August 2010" with the new data I was getting (and then it became Hobo's Guide), and was pleased to find that the very important number, the %KCal from carbs, hadn't changed in many, many cases on the lower-priced, readily available canned foods like Fancy Feast Classics and Friskies Pates.

There is NO cat kibble out there, that anyone on these boards has found, that contains less than 10% KCal from carbs. Stay away from all dry food! (Stella & Chewy's Freeze Dried Raw is a different category altogether, so that is okay, and my boys love this as treats and crushed and sprinkled on their canned food.)

Before Pumbaa was diagnosed, he and Larry (civvie) always got Friskies in the morning, because Friskies was one of the affordable canned cat foods that wasn't part of the tainted crap from China in 2007. I just had to change from feeding them the gravied stuff to feeding them the pates.

Here, in my part of AZ, FF Classics are abut $.50 per 3 oz. can, whereas Friskies Pates are about $.50 per 5.5 oz. can. I recently discovered that Petsmart will price match if you find FF Classics or Friskies on sale at another store. That is nice because Petsmart has more of a variety of flavors available. Walmart has a great selection of FF Classics available for $.50 per can.

Hope this helps!

Suze

You don't have to go broke feeding your cats low-carb food. Trust me...I've done the research. (If you look at Pumbaa's SS, all the way on the right in the "foods" column, I list the %KCal for the food I give my boys in this order: protein/fat/carbs. That might help you figure out what foods to purchase.)

 

[MayBTheresHope]

You don't ned to feed ANY prescription food, dry or canned. The ingredients are junk and many cats get bored of eating it after awhile. Many vets push the prsecription food because they don't know much about proper nutrition. Some even get commission for selling the products. I'm surprised your vet is telling you to buy the prscripion food online. Most vets sell the stuff in their office.

The vet who holds the patent for Purina DM doesn't even recommend the food to any client. You might want to read Dr. Lisa's opinions on Purina DM in this recent thread: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76424

Most everyone here just feeds low carb commerical canned foods: Fancy Feast, Friskies, Wellness, Merrick, etc. The link to the food charts/lists have been posted in one of the reponses above.

I second this. My vet started Max off on the dry and canned versions of Purina DM and I feel like it was just a waste of $$$. His numbers were still high on the dry and he quickly tired of the canned. His bg went down after I switched to fancy feast classics, which I switched to primarily b/c he refused to eat anymore of the canned DM. In fact, Max broke into the pantry a few weeks back and got into the bag of dry Purina DM. The next morning, his bg was in the 270 range after having been in the low 100s for several days just after we stopped the insulin! I made note of it on his spreadsheet if you want to look at it.

 

[max&emmasmommie]

You can get Wellness Turkey, Beef & Chicken, and Chicken food in larger cans at Petco, and it's less expensive that way. I can't get it at PetSmart. There are a few other flavors on Binky's page or Hobo's with fish in them.

I'm uncomfortable giving fish to Max because of the mercury content and his CRF and age. I understand that pet quality fish is very iffy. You can give your cat extra chicken and fish from the supermarket, of course. Just add it to the food or give it as treats. I would cook it because your cat is struggling from a medical standpoint, and getting a bacteria in his food wouldn't be too great right now. Most of the time cats can handle spoiled food, and they know, instinctively, what NOT to eat.* A diabetic kitty who is hungry all the time might eat something she otherwise wouldn't.

*This is why dry food is dusted in a yummy powder. The cat has no idea he's getting mostly corn and carbs. It's a trick, and it works.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

I think that I'm going to look into the higher end OTC foods available at Petsmart or Petco. It will save money and like you said, give her more of a variety.

Most premium pet food brands have store finders on their web sites. Here's Wellness: http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/store-locator.aspx, and Merricks: http://www.merrickpetcare.com/where-to-buy.php. Put in your location there and see if there's an independently owned, local pet food store in your town--most towns have at least one. Premium foods are way cheaper at locally owned stores than the chain stores, and they always have the larger cans, and if they don't, they'll let you order them by the case. Most also have discounts if you buy 24 cans at a time of the same brand of food (even if you mix and match flavors). For example, I feed 3 flavors of the Merricks 5 star entrees which are 1.60something at Petco. It's 1.05/1.12 a can at the two of the local pet food stores in town after case discounts. I am a big fan of the Merrick's for Bandit because it's high protein, low fat, low carb (he doesn't handle high fat foods well), but I also fed Wellness for a while and that was also a good food. Feeding Wellness is cheaper than feeding Fancy Feast if you find the 12.5 oz cans for a good price. EVO is another premium food with lots of low carb options that comes in 13 oz cans, but my cats didn't care for it much and the super high fat irritated Bandits GI system.

Ditch the dry completely for both cats. It's not just the carbs that matter. Dry food is moisture depleted and causes Chronic Dehydration in cats, which leads to other health problems like Urinary Tract disease and Kidney disease as the cat ages. Here's some great tips for getting your other cat off dry food: http://catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_. I swear by Fortiflora--that stuff is awesome. It has the same flavoring in it that makes dry food attractive cats, and it's a probiotic so helps their GI systems handle the transition to a different food at the same time.

 

[squeem3]

You can get Wellness Turkey, Beef & Chicken, and Chicken food in larger cans at Petco, and it's less expensive that way. I can't get it at PetSmart.

Wellness isn't sold at Petsmart, only at Petco and non-chain specialty pet stores/boutiques.

As Julia said, most pet food companies have a store locator search on their web site. You can use it to find a local store that sells the food. Non-chain pet stores are usually pretty good at special ordering food that they do not carry and selling cases of food at a discount. Ordering online is also an option but shipping may be costly

Limit seafood based foods to once in awhile meals. Some cats get addicted to eating seafood and will refuse to eat anything else.

Gravy based foods should not be fed unless the diabetic cat is hypoglycemic. The high carb content of the gray will raise blood gluocse levels. It's ok if the non-diabetic has the occasional gravy food, just keep the diabetic away from it.

Low carb treats: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Wellness isn't sold at Petsmart, only at Petco and non-chain specialty pet stores/boutiques.

Actually, Petsmart started selling Wellness a year or two ago. However, last I checked they only have it in 3oz cans which they charge an arm and a leg for, nearly doubling the price per oz for what you can get it for someplace else.

 

[carsoncassidy]

I'm headed out tomorrow to get Kate some food... going to get a few different one's and see what she and Shadow like best. I'm going to start another thread about my glucometer...

This is some fantastic info and I have taken ALL of it into consideration!

Thank you all!