Newly Diagnosed - About to give first shot but unsure..

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ChucksMom

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Our cat Chuck is 10 years old and was just diagnosed on Saturday. He was pretty bad off by the time we realized there was an issue and took him to the vet on Saturday, and he has been there since Monday being monitored. I picked him up tonight and I'm supposed to be giving him 4 units of Insulin twice a day, 30 minutes after eating. He weighs 13 lbs now (he used to weigh about 18 so he has really been losing weight - we have twin one-year olds and I think I've not noticed as much due to them, poor little guy). Anyway, the vet said to give him 1/4-1/2 cup of his food (W/D because he also has the crystals that require a special diet) and then 30 minutes later, the shot. He wouldn't eat earlier this evening, so I just tried again now and he ate almost 1/4 cup, but not quite. Does that mean I should adjust his dose of insulin at all? I am so freaked out that he didn't enough and that I will end up making things worse. Ugh.

Also, when I picked him up to bring him into the kitchen to eat, he yowled like it hurt him. That surprised me a lot. Is he in pain from something related to all this? His levels were like 583 on Saturday when he was diagnosed so he has been very sick, but I'm not sure how he's feeling now. The vet said he was about 5 hours away from death when we took him in on Saturday. If anyone's on tonight and has any advice let me know. I'm feeling very overwhelmed. Thanks!
 
Also, people will want to know what time zone you are in.

At the top of the page, under the logo with the cat and the words, The FDMB, you will see, two lines down, "User Control Panel." Click on it and when it comes up, select "Profile." Put your city, state (or city, country) in the field labeled "Location."

Lana
 
Oh boy - with twins you have your hands full. The good news is that after the learning curve of a few days to a week, managing diabetes is not really that hard. There are 3 important keys to effective management.

1. Diet: Dry food is not good for any cat, least of all a diabetic. I know its hard when your vet says this if the food that you need to use. However, if you think about a cat's natural food, it is all fresh meat. Mice are a high percentage moisture, just like people. So the best food is low carb, canned wet food. Many of the members on this board add water to the canned food to make it about the consistency of applesauce. I add a can of water to each can of food. I have been adding an ice cube or two in the hot weather to keep the food fresh for longer, and my cat licks the cubes. I'll get you the link to the food lists for the next post. Having lots of water in his system is also great for his urine crystal problem. www.catinfo.org is a web site run by a vet and she discusses wet food and urine crystals.

2. Home testing: In order to know first that it is safe to give insulin we test b4 each shot. Then, as time allows, we also test between shots. We can discuss timing later. I just wanted ot introduce the concept for now. Did your vet talk about this at all?

3. Insulin: Insulin is needed to allow the cells to use the sugar from the blood stream. If you can bering his blood glucose down to a consistent and safe level, his pancreas may heal and he may become a diet-controlled diabetic - wouldn't that be nice?

So, to answer your questions, it would be helpful to have a bit more information. What insulin did the vet prescribe for you cat? Did the vet talk about testing for ketones? With a high blood glucose, this is a concern. Some cats seem tolerant of high bg and some produce ketones. Unfortunately, if the cat does produce ketones, it can quickly progress to a serious emergency. If you don't have them, pehaps you could pick up some ketone testing strips at the pharmacy in the morning. We can help you with techniques for testing his urine.
 
Hi,
Thanks for your replies. I will set my time zone, but we are Mountain Time.

My insulin is: ProZinc (protamine zinc recombinant human insulin).

My vet did not discuss home testing (it was kind of 'see ya in a year', which I thought was a little stressful). In fact, I did not actually even talk to the doctor herself, I'm not sure what the credentials were of the woman I talked to.

We've never been able to get our cats to eat wet cat food - we've tried several times but they won't touch it. I'm not sure how to change that.

I just called a co-worker because I know his cat is diabetic, and I wanted his take on tonight's shot. I ended up giving him 3 units. Since he didn't quite eat 1/4 cup of dry food it was stressing me out that I was going to give him too much. Maybe that was wrong, I hope not. Anyway our cat is seriously ticked off at us right now and I have no idea if he is in trouble or if we are just seeing the post-3-days-at-the-vet behavior. He yowls that low-octave sound and we had to drag him out from under the bed to even give the shot. He took off running after that (so at least he can run) and he's currently hiding downstairs. I'll go find him in a few minutes and see how he's acting.

I thought I'd be okay with this whole diabetes thing but now that he is home I am seriously starting to freak out. Just skimming a few of these posts I feel completely out of my league.

Oh, and I'm going to have to go read up on ketones - I don't even know what that is.

Overall, thinking I need to stop by the vet on the way home from work tomorrow and try to get the doctor to have a conversation with me. I didn't even get a hand-out. Just the insulin and my cat.
 
((hugs)) Its hard I know. My kitty was diagnosed in March. I have a 1 year old and a 2 year old. I know how you feel with the stress of the kids and a diabetic kitty. Mine lost a ton of weight before we realized what was wrong. Home testing is the only way to go. I got a cheap ReliOn meter from walmart. The experts will be along to tell you all about the things you need, but its super easy. Just a prick on the ear and it will tell you the BS. Then you chart it and the doses can be adjusted per your kitty. Good luck!! This board is a life saver. They will help you every step of the way :)
 
Hi, Chuck's mom.

I'm not going to give you dosing advice, because I'm kinda new myself (meaning, I was here 4 years ago when my cat was first diagnosed, then he went into remission for 3 1/2 years, and am now back as he's back on insulin as of two weeks ago). Also, I am using a different kind of insulin.

But, I wanted to let you know that when I first learned my cat was diabetic, I was so depressed and stressed out about it. I truly didn't think I was going to be able to handle it and that I would do something wrong and my kitty would die because of me. But then I found this board.

Although initially feeling VERY overwhelmed, so many people on this board reached out and helped me and I learned so much and learned that diabetes wasn't a death sentence and I could do it and take proper care of my cat, with small adjustments in our household.

You have absolutely come to the right place for support and education. People on this board are dedicated to helping cats with diabetes (and their people). Just breath and take it one step at a time. It can seem overwhelming at first, but I guarantee you it will become easier very quickly.

You may want to click some of the "stickys" at the top of the page as they will provide a lot of detailed information.

Anyway, I just wanted to send a note of encouragement, as I've completely been there...feeling completely out of my league and overwhelmed, scared, stressed, frustrated...but I've learned alot and been able to manage the diabetes and I think my kittie's doing just fine. ;-)
 
Violet and Garland said:
((hugs)) Its hard I know. My kitty was diagnosed in March. I have a 1 year old and a 2 year old. I know how you feel with the stress of the kids and a diabetic kitty. Mine lost a ton of weight before we realized what was wrong. Home testing is the only way to go. I got a cheap ReliOn meter from walmart. The experts will be along to tell you all about the things you need, but its super easy. Just a prick on the ear and it will tell you the BS. Then you chart it and the doses can be adjusted per your kitty. Good luck!! This board is a life saver. They will help you every step of the way :)
Click to expand...

Thanks - this is definitely more complicated than I was expecting. I'll check into the meter tomorrow if I can - hopefully things will settle into a routine soon and that I don't kill my kitty - I'm freaking out that I'm going to.
 
ehsuan said:
Hi, Chuck's mom.

I'm not going to give you dosing advice, because I'm kinda new myself (meaning, I was here 4 years ago when my cat was first diagnosed, then he went into remission for 3 1/2 years, and am now back as he's back on insulin as of two weeks ago). Also, I am using a different kind of insulin.

But, I wanted to let you know that when I first learned my cat was diabetic, I was so depressed and stressed out about it. I truly didn't think I was going to be able to handle it and that I would do something wrong and my kitty would die because of me. But then I found this board.

Although initially feeling VERY overwhelmed, so many people on this board reached out and helped me and I learned so much and learned that diabetes wasn't a death sentence and I could do it and take proper care of my cat, with small adjustments in our household.

You have absolutely come to the right place for support and education. People on this board are dedicated to helping cats with diabetes (and their people). Just breath and take it one step at a time. It can seem overwhelming at first, but I guarantee you it will become easier very quickly.

You may want to click some of the "stickys" at the top of the page as they will provide a lot of detailed information.

Anyway, I just wanted to send a note of encouragement, as I've completely been there...feeling completely out of my league and overwhelmed, scared, stressed, frustrated...but I've learned alot and been able to manage the diabetes and I think my kittie's doing just fine. ;-)
Click to expand...


Thanks :) I appreciate the support.
 
ChucksMom said:
Overall, thinking I need to stop by the vet on the way home from work tomorrow and try to get the doctor to have a conversation with me. I didn't even get a hand-out. Just the insulin and my cat.
Click to expand...

I would recommend that you go to Walmart instead. Buy a Relion Micro blood test kit - probably about $10 or so. Buy the test strips for that meter, $20 for 50 strips. Come home and make yourself a rice stock -- pour some rice into an old sock. 10 or 12 seconds in the microwave will warm the sock. You will use it to warm your cat's ear. Get a flashlight. You will be testing the outside of the ear. Shine the flashlight against the inside of the ear and examine your cat's ear. Look for the vein running around the edge of the ear. The outer edge of the ear is where you want to aim your lancet. There should be one with your meter. The lancet will have a way to adjust the the depth. It doesn't need to be set real deep. Put the flashlight away, tighten the rice sock really good and hold it firmly against the inside of your cat's ear. Warm the cat's ear really good with the sock. Lance the edge of the ear and kind of milk it if you do not see a drop of blood right away. Give kitty a beloved treat. Sometimes people have a little trouble in the beginning but you will get the hang of it. Remember that Chuck will be reading the tension in your body so be as relaxed as you can. And always reward, whether you are successful or not.

I am in Central Time Zone so I will pass you on to Pacific Time Zone folk . . .

Lana
 
I know you said your cats have refused wet food in the past, but I strongly suggest you try again. My cats were the same way, but they've now been happily eating wet for a year. Try switching them using a lower quality canned like Fancy Feast Classics or Friskies. My cats took easily to it, and from there getting them to eat other canned foods was pretty easy. Plus, both FF and Friskies are low carb and many people on here feed them to their diabetic cats with great success. My diabetic cat was able to get off insulin with FF and has been for a year :)

I know how stressful this is, but the people here know what they're talking about and can help way more than the average vet.
 
W/D is about the worst thing a diabetic cat could eat. Bandit was on this food before his diagnosis for weight loss and I am relatively sure it is what caused his diabetes to begin with. Cats just can't handle that many carbs without it eventually burning out their pancreas. I get really peeved when I see that vets are STILL prescribing this food to diabetics even though it does nothing but worsen the condition. If I had my way this food wouldn't even exist, since there are far better diets for pretty much everything it's prescribed for. Feeding high carb, dry diets to cats with urinary tract issues is not the best course of treatment, since high carbs and lack of moisture is part of the problem's cause. This article has some very helpful information about urinary tract problems in cats and diet: http://catinfo.org/#Cystitis_

As others have mentioned, you'll want to switch to a low carb canned food. Here are some tips to make the switch for difficult cats: http://catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_. It does take patience and experimentation, but it's one of the most important steps ins treating both diabetes and the urinary problems. I would return the w/d immediately and get a refund. Say your cat wont eat it anymore. If you need a dry food to feed in the meantime while you're transitioning to canned, pick up some EVO or Wellness Core. It's not ideal, but it does have a much lower carb content and no grain.

However, when you get rid of the w/d, you're going to want to drop that high starting dose of 4u. Cats will drop 100-200 points with a diet change, and the W/D especially is keeping your cat's blood sugar very high, and is the only thing making it relatively safe to shoot that much insulin. 1u is the recommended starting dose for a cat, and most cats on a low carb diet do not need more than that.
 
I want to echo what Julie said about the W/D. My cat, Tableau, was also on this horrible food for years and I too, am convinced this is what caused his diabetes. When i switched foods, both of my cats (including the non-diabetic) instantly became much healthier - like within 3 days. I didn't mention the food because I don't want you to become overwhelmed with everything all at once...but ultimately, the importance of switching food cannot be overstated.
 
Hello to Mr. Chuck and mommy too,
I just wanted to add that changing kitties to wet is a b*tch! My civvie Slappy (15 Yrs old) just stopped eating her dry and after day 2 1/2, I took her to the vet, ran a senior panel blood work, and she received fluids... I tried to get her to eat the a/d food that the vet prescribed - no go..... long story short, I had to dropper/syringe feed for 2 weeks... needed something that would go thru the dropper and the a/d would, dulited with tuna water... She was rolled like a buritto, and dropper fed...I printed the information about transition to wet, thought no way as I had tried before and gave up and she won.... NOT THIS TIME!

I learned how to buritto wrap, dropper feed and started the transition!

She is now eating wet!!!!! GO SLAPPY GO!

I could not believe it and she has not had any dry since Monday! She started with the dropper and then off my finger while being wrapped up, then touching her mouth w/ wet food off the finger and then off the spoon all while NOT being wrapped like a burrito.
As of Monday when she decided to eat out of the spoon, we have double our wet food intake and doing it without hassel! I just set it in front of her and WOW, it is gone!

I WOULD HAVE PROMISED YOU 3 WEEKS AGO - THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!

Our next feat is to do wet with low carb and not the a/d........ She is doing better and doesnt need a/d anymore, but I will wait til the labor day week end to freak her out again~ burrito here I come!

Something else I did to help her eat the 'better' dry was to get some fora flora and put on the dry, and it did help her to eat that. She is sooo picky and HATES CHANGE.

Good luck with the food transition....This is the best place you will ever find for your furry friends :razz:
 
Hi Chucksmom,

My Dude just got diagnosed a couple of weeks ago. Prior to that he would absolutely not eat any wet cat food period. We went to the store the day we got him home from the Vet and bought the Classic Fancy Feast others have talked about. I don't know why but he took to that food like he'd been eating it his whole life. He likes it much better than the dry diabetic cat food we got from the Vet and from what I hear its cheaper too. You should try mixing wet and dry though I think. I believe I read that if you move to wet food too fast the insulin prescribed may be too high? Can someone more knowledgable comment on that? Does Chuck like any special kind of treats? You might want to try rewarding him for getting his shot. Dude gets mad us us too when we poke him and he's not interested in his treats after that so we started giving him Nip right after. He seems to enjoy that. I'm sorry he's feeling so upset. I can't imaging having a yowling cat and twin one year olds at the same time. I think if you just take it a step at a time though you'll make it through just fine.

By the way for the dosing questions you might want to post to the PZI specific board:

viewforum.php?f=24

They have been very helpful with Dude so far.

Keep us updated.

tmjn
 
Hi Chuck's Mom, and hi to you too Chuck!

Couple things - your vet told you Chuck was hours away from dying when you brought Chuck in. I can completely understand how that felt, as Bob was in that sort of shape when I got him to the vet. However, you should know that Bob is in remission after being treated for roughly 2 months using the same insulin as Chuck (PZI). Not saying your results will be identical, just wanted to assure you that it is possible.
3 keys to the sugardance (which have already been told to you)
Insulin every 12 hours
Home Testing
Diet change.
Bob was a wet and dry eater before he got sick. The vet sent me home with Hills Prescription Diet m/d food. Bob gobbled it for 3 days or so, then wouldn't eat it. At the same time, someone pointed me to this board, and to Janet and Binky's food charts (click on my sig link to go there). I immediately took Bob off dry, and he hasn't had any since. BUT that was actually not quite the right thing to do. Now I know that you need to transition especially if Chuck has always eaten dry food. The switch to low-carb all canned food will cause a drop (sometimes a very large one) in his BG level. Because of that, it is usually a good idea to reduce his insulin dose at the same time he starts weaning off the dry food. This is really important, because the "normal" dose can quickly become a dangerous one.
So it is very important to do home testing, so that you can see exactly what the insulin and the diet change are doing for Chuck, (and for his safety). You will be able to see this on a daily basis, and you won't have to bring Chuck to the vet for blood glucose checks ever again. Home testing is THE most important part of the diabetes management process.

You may feel really overwhelmed right now. That feeling will go away rather quickly. You will feel that YOU are in charge, and you'll feel a great sense of self-confidence in a matter of days. This isn't extremely "complicated" actually. Once you learn the steps, this is a fairly simple dance. A couple months from now you'll look back at "now" and wonder what the big deal was.
Ask lots of questions. Everyone who posts here is here to help you. We're just paying it forward because once upon a time (not very long ago) we were in the exact same place you find yourself in today.

Carl
 
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