Newbie with questions.

[RMW]

Hi all,

My cat was just diagnosed with diabetes earlier this week. I have spent the past few days trying to "educate myself" about feline diabetes and wound up nowhere except at the top of a statue of liberty sized pile of confusion. Right now Marmalade is on a one unit of Prozinc twice daily.

My vet offered us some prescription dry food, and we turned it down because he and our other cat (Molasses) turned it (and the M/D wet) down when Molasses was having tummy troubles a couple of years ago. I am glad now because most of the places on the net that I have been to say that dry food is not the best for Marmalade, period, full stop. Luckily, he already prefers canned, it is Molasses who will have to switch to canned, he is the picky eater and likes some flavors of Fancy Feast (FF), but not others but prefers dry. They have both been eating Fancy Feast (FF) since kittenhood and I have looked at the food list and am trying to make myself a shopping list of the best flavors. I know that it says less than 10 carbs (on the list) is good, and I am assuming from an email that the protien number on the list needs to be higher than the fat number. Is that an accurate assumption? Is there already a "shopping list" available?

I am still in a state of Nervous Nellie when I "shoot" Marmalade, because I hate needles for myself, and I am an easily stressed epileptic (hence my reason for being here), and stress can make sizures more likely. I will have to learn to be comfortable shooting him before I can do blood tests. You know, a one step at a time routine. My vet did not even mention blood tests at home, and when I asked the techs that were teaching me to give insulin about blood tests, they said I needed to buy a pet glucometer because human ones do not work for cats or dogs. I had read the evening before, on some sites, that isn't always true and I plan to talk to my vet about that when I speak to her next time. I cannot change vet clinics, because (epilepsy) I cannot drive, and there are no others nearby, so I am literally in a "do the best I can" situation. I love my kitties, and want to do the best I can for them, but other factors mean that some compromises have to be made.

Some sites say that a flat out food switch is easier, others (like this) say that a slower transition is better, will switching him from his "any FF flavor" diet to an "only low carb" ones cause problems of some kind? I ask this because I have read all of the horror stories about the "if you don't" and if you do", but there is so much contradiction, it is just a pain in the tail. As far as I have been told by the tests done by the vet, he is healthy other than the diabetes.

Anyhow, I will likely have more, but this is it for now.

Thanks

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Hello and welcome to the board!
Marmalade is a great name for a cat.. Is he ginger?

Good for you to turn down dry food. Wet canned is the best for diabetes and you are correct we recommend under 10% carbs, I have attached a shopping list below.

It's a very good idea to do blood tests to keep your cat safe so the sooner you can get started on that the better, especially when you switch to low carb as his insulin requirements may drop rapidly. And no you do not need a pet glucometer. Many people here use the Walmart relion human meter and its cheap and works great.

Here is a useful link and below is the food list https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rd6sMfsrNB41yQVEqpyjlHrJsDIbGEhbRIWR4QAwu3c/pub

Wendy

carbs in % . . phosphorus ( FKD cats need under 250)
4% - fancy feast CLASSICS chicken feast- 546 - stay away from any that are not classics
4%- fancy feast chopped grilled feast pate -569
2%- fancy feast cod, sole & shrimp feast pate – 787
4%- fancy feast Ocean Whitefish and tuna pate 823
1% -fancy feast Savory Salmon feast pate – 369
5%-fancy feast Tender beef feast pate -637
5%-fancy feast Tender beef and chicken feast pate -502
5% - fancy feast Tender beef and liver feast pate – 525
4% -fancy feast Tender liver and chicken feast pate -598
3%- fancy feast Turkey & giblets feast pate – 355

8% - Friskies flaked with tuna and egg 415
9% - Friskies Poultry platter – 438
5% - Friskies Special diet Turkey and Giblets dinner pate 189
5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Chicken Entree pate 242

5% - Merrick Cowboy cookout 202
8% - Merrick Grammy's pot pie 237
3% - Merrick Surf n Turf 229
4% -Merrick Southern delight -328 this one has crawfish in it.
8% -Merrick Ocean Breeze 420
9% -Merrick Turducken 219

1%- Merrick Before Grain cat 96% beef – 163
2% - Merrick Before Grain cat 96% chicken – 341
2%- Merrick Before Grain cat 96% turkey – 178
2%-Merrick Before Grain cat 96% quail and chicken – 506
2%- Merrick Before Grain cat 96% salmon 439
2% Merrick Before Grain cat 96% tuna 450

4% - Wellness chicken 219
4% - Wellness turkey 201
5% - Wellness turkey and salmon 299
4% - Wellness Beef and chicken 226
6% - Wellness chicken & herring 303
6% - Wellness beef & salmon 207

8% - Wellness Core chicken/turkey/chicken liver 215
5% - Wellness Core Turkey & Duck 265
5% - Wellness Core Beef , Venison & Lamb 171

0% - TikiCat Koolina Luau 421 ( chicken with egg)

3% - Nature's variety Instinct Grain free Chicken – 302
3% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Beef – 248
2% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Lamb 262
1% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Duck 191
0% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Venison 330
? - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Rabbit ?

0% - Natura Evo chicken and turkey 155
5% - Natura Evo 95% duck 251
6% - Natura Evo 95% venison – 416
4% - Natura Evo 95% beef – 234

8% Holistic Select chicken & lamb 222
8% Holistic Select Salmon & shrimp 264

6% Nutro Natural Choice Mature Health Chicken & Turkey Formula chunks in gravy 204

8% Soulistic Shrimply Divine 270
4% Soulistic Double Happiness 262
3% Soulistic Polynesian Picnic 239
4% Soulistic Celestial Feast 250
7% Soulistic Upstream Dream 234
9% Soulistic Surf n Earth 255
8% Soulistic Nautical Nirvana 228

2% Purina One chicken pate 438
3% Purina One Turkey pate 469
5% Purina One Beef pate 530
2% Purina One Whitefish pate 734

9% ProPlan Turkey and Giblets 382
4% ProPlan Chicken & Liver entree 509
5% ProPlan Chunky Chicken Entree 639

9% Max Cat Chicken Supreme 173
8% Max Cat with savory duck 197
8% Max Cat with Savory Venison 214

8% Avoderm Chicken Chunks/gravy (??) 234
0% Avoderm Salmon in consumme 469
1% Avoderm Swordfish in consumme 271
0% Avoderm Tuna & Prawns 278
2% Avoderm Tuna % chicken w/ veggies 241

6% Artemis Chicken 320
4% Artemis Turkey & giblets 409

5% Halo Spot's Pate Whitefish 466 my cat does not like Halo.
4% Halo spot's Pate Chicken 303
9% Halo Succulent Salmon 227

1% Eukanuba kitten entree with gourmet chicken 253
1% Eukanuba adult with gourmet chicken 239

7% Evolve -chicken 214
6% Evolve turkey 244
6% Evolve seafood 265

4% Natural Balance Catatouille (stew) 274
0% Natural Balance O'Fischally Scampi 244
2% Natural Balance Sea Brulee 297

5% Pinnacle Chicken and Ocean fish 175
5% Pinnacle Chicken and Tuna 221
4% Pinnacle Ocean Fish 231

 

[Ry & Scooter]

Step back and take a few deep breaths... you are doing great! One thing at a time. Diabetes is like running a marathon, not a sprint...

Prozinc is a good insulin and 1u every 12 hours is a good starting point.

Fancy Feast classics (pates ONLY - no gravy/shreds/grilled/etc) are a decent starting food. Protein does not need to be higher than fat. It depends on your cat. If he needs to gain weight, a higher fat food might not be bad for him. If he needs to build muscle and lean down, higher protein is good for that. My cats maintain healthy weight on higher fat foods (Wellness).

Why are you nervous about the needles? Insulin needles are very small and short - they should not be causing any visible discomfort to your cat (other than maybe twitching a bit). What gauge syringes are you using? The higher the number the thinner they are. You want 30 or 31 gauge, but I don't know if Prozinc (u40) syringes come in short needle. Make sure you are pulling the skin up into a "tent" and that you are shooting parallel to his body, not straight down, like this:

You do NOT have to buy a pet meter. They are very expensive and no more accurate than most human meters. Remember that Marmalade is your cat and it's up to you to make those decisions, not your vet. If you're in the USA the ReliOn Confirm and Miro can be found at Walmart and the strips for those meters are very reasonably priced and easy to find. There is also the Prime which has even cheaper strips ($9 for 50!). I know you do not want to stress yourself but it is important to start home testing ASAP to keep Marmalade safe.

 

[squeem3]

Here are additional food shopping lists:

Dr. Lynne's Wet Food list
List of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84885
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=81687
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=84512

Here are the more extensive food charts:
Dr. Lisa's new food chart http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf
Binky's canned food charts
Pet Food Nutritional Values list
Hobo's Guide To Nutritional Values

Look for foods under 10% carbs on the above four charts. The key is low carb, under 10%. Protein is usually high for most brands, especially the high end premium foods, but you can check the charts for a low carb/high protein food that meets your cat's needs.

Low carb treats: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

Some sites say that a flat out food switch is easier, others (like this) say that a slower transition is better, will switching him from his "any FF flavor" diet to an "only low carb" ones cause problems of some kind? I ask this because I have read all of the horror stories about the "if you don't" and if you do", but there is so much contradiction, it is just a pain in the tail. As far as I have been told by the tests done by the vet, he is healthy other than the diabetes.

The FF Classic pate line is all low carb so switching between any of those varieties won't cause any issue at all. Switching between different brands of low carb foods also won't cause any issues.

The problem is if the cat is eating dry food and is on insulin treatment and you switch to low carb canned food. The lower carb food has a big impact on blood glucose levels, sometimes dropping it down 100 points or more. When blood glucose levels drop that much, a reduction in insulin is needed to prevent hypoglycemia. Home blood glucose testing during a dry food to low carb food switch is important so you can catch any big drops in blood glucose levels and adjust the insulin dose, even treat a hypo if that happens.

 

[BJM]

Another reason for slow food switches is it reduces the chances of digestive issues such as vomiting, diarrhea, or loss of appetite. If you regularly rotate flavors, those problems may be less likely.

Changing brands, watch for the use of different ingredients - for example, some cats don't tolerate gluten, some brands put in carrots or blueberries, etc (so you'll think its better food ... but have you seen cats digging for carrots ever?)

 

[RMW]

Hello and welcome to the board!
Marmalade is a great name for a cat.. Is he ginger?

[/quote]

Thanks for the shopping list! They only eat Fancy Feast so I just have to stick to "classic" then?

I did not name him, I adopted them several years ago from a family member who could no longer care for them, but yes, he is ginger with some white. When he sleeps, he rolls up into a doughnut shape, and he looks like a sweet little bagel with cream cheese and Marmalade on top.

 

[squeem3]

Thanks for the shopping list! They only eat Fancy Feast so I just have to stick to "classic" then?

Yes, stick to the Classic ones. One drawback to FF is that it is only available in those teeny 3 oz can sizes. That can add up in cost over time. You can try a different brand on occasion to see if your cats will like that. Wellness is similar to FF and comes in larger sized cans, even 12.5 oz.

Do keep a few high carb (over 18%) canned foods on hand to use in case your diabetic cat becomes hypoglycemic. The high carbs will raise blood glucose levels. Any of the FF in gravy (grilled, sliced, marianted, etc) are good to use. Here's a list of things to have on hand for a hypo emergency: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354

 

[RMW]

Step back and take a few deep breaths... you are doing great! One thing at a time. Diabetes is like running a marathon, not a sprint...

Fancy Feast classics (pates ONLY - no gravy/shreds/grilled/etc) are a decent starting food. Protein does not need to be higher than fat. It depends on your cat. If he needs to gain weight, a higher fat food might not be bad for him. If he needs to build muscle and lean down, higher protein is good for that. My cats maintain healthy weight on higher fat foods (Wellness).

Why are you nervous about the needles? Insulin needles are very small and short - they should not be causing any visible discomfort to your cat (other than maybe twitching a bit). What gauge syringes are you using?

According to the vet he is healthy other than the diabetes, so he does not need to lean down or bulk up or anything.

I said in a previous reply why I was nervous, when I learned to "shoot" Marmalade, I was taught by a three legged clinic resident. She was very cooperative. The techs were nice also.

The needles I am using now are the U40 ones that we got at the vet. We plan to buy them online in the future because it is about 20$ cheaper for 100.

 

[RMW]

Here are additional food shopping lists:

The FF Classic pate line is all low carb so switching between any of those varieties won't cause any issue at all. Switching between different brands of low carb foods also won't cause any issues.

The problem is if the cat is eating dry food and is on insulin treatment and you switch to low carb canned food. The lower carb food has a big impact on blood glucose levels, sometimes dropping it down 100 points or more. When blood glucose levels drop that much, a reduction in insulin is needed to prevent hypoglycemia. Home blood glucose testing during a dry food to low carb food switch is important so you can catch any big drops in blood glucose levels and adjust the insulin dose, even treat a hypo if that happens.

When I said switching, I meant switching from his current diet of all canned Fancy Feast (FF) of various varieties and flavors to all canned FF low carb. I already spent this week removing dry food from his diet. (His brother still has work to do in that regard) Marmalade has not had any dry food for about 48 hours, now I want to get him on all low carb FF. Will that be a problem?

 

[RMW]

Another reason for slow food switches is it reduces the chances of digestive issues such as vomiting, diarrhea, or loss of appetite. If you regularly rotate flavors, those problems may be less likely.

Changing brands, watch for the use of different ingredients - for example, some cats don't tolerate gluten, some brands put in carrots or blueberries, etc (so you'll think its better food ... but have you seen cats digging for carrots ever?)

Um, switching flavors and varieties (not brands) is normal for them, we get FF cans on sale, and get a variety so they both may not have what they had for breakfast at dinner time. I was told to switch flavors when I adopted them.

As for cats digging for carrots, no they do not, but when they are wild, and kill little bugsy, the first thing carnivores eat is is the guts because it provides (already partially digested) the fiber and vitamins from produce in the perfect amount and levels that the cats need. I imagine that the reason blueberries and carrots etc do not agree with kitty digestion, is that cat food companies do not partially digest it in the same way that little bugsy does, and they (obviously) put way too much of it. Sorry, just my thoughts and idea about it, we can agree to disagree.

 

[RMW]

Thanks for all the lists!

 

[RMW]

One drawback to FF is that it is only available in those teeny 3 oz can sizes. That can add up in cost over time.

Do keep a few high carb (over 18%) canned foods on hand to use in case your diabetic cat becomes hypoglycemic. The high carbs will raise blood glucose levels. Any of the FF in gravy (grilled, sliced, marianted, etc) are good to use. Here's a list of things to have on hand for a hypo emergency:

With the FF we actually do better with, because when we tried larger cans (Friskies) some would not get eaten, and we would waste more with larger cans because Molasses (Marmalades brother) is finicky. With small cans we can open another if needed, instead of having to toss a third of a can because it has been sitting all day.

I did read the list and we already have most of it. I have never even heard of rectal glucose. I suppose that is another thing I need to chat with the vet about.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

rectal glucose? You mean for treating hypoglycaemia?