Newbie with a strange? cat.

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Tammi

Member Since 2017
I’ll TRY to make a long story as short as possible (I was unsuccessful LOL). My 8 y.o boy Luigi (yes, he had a brother Mario who passed away when he was 2 1/2) was dx a year ago. Previous diet consisted of high quality canned food in AM and PM and small amount of high quality kibble for lunch and bedtime snack. His highest weight was 24lbs (yes, he was a BIG guy) I took him to the vet (a new one for us) because he was leaking urine, puddle while he was sleeping. dr did a blood a test and called a couple days later saying he was diabetic. Ok, a shock as I had no idea what I was in for, but research until we took him in the next day made me realize it won’t be so bad. His weight was also 18lbs at this time. His numbers were in the 500s at the vet so we started on 4 units of Vetsulin 2x a day and I started giving him chicken soup for the soul canned cat food (dr recommended high fiber food, and that has 3% fiber..highest I had found for canned). Because he was always ravenous, I still fed him the kibble for lunch and bedtime (a lower carb brand, i don’t remember what it was) I don’t think it too long before he stopped leaking urine (and I was able to finally get the smell out of my house!) 3 weeks after we started he had a major hypo episode (that’s what I call them, episodes)…I had no idea that’s what it was so I rushed him to the vet, he gave him some pouch frosting, and I left him for a few hours while I went to class. We lowered his dose to 3U 2x a day, was good for about a week before he started having episodes almost every day, about 3-4 hours after his morning shot. It wasn’t until then that I started testing on my own and his numbers were consistently perfect. Then, I did what I know no good pet parent should do. Without the Dr’s advice, I stopped the insulin altogether. I did not continue checking his BG but he was FINE and showing NO symptoms until about 6 weeks ago he started leaking urine again. I had been giving him different food as he had stopped eating the Chicken Soup food and I wasn’t being as picky and not buying grain free, so who knows how many carbs it had. I switched back to a low carb diet (i found instinct canned food, while a LOT more expensive) is also 3% fiber hoping that would help, but no. I could tell he was losing a LOT of weight as petting him it was just bones…noticed he was drinking a lot more and his leaking puddles getting bigger, so back to the vet and back to the vetsulin…and his weight was 11.2lbs!!!!! Due to his many episodes before, we started at 2U 2x a day. His numbers were high, 400’s, and the dose didn’t seem to help too much so, due to all my knowledge I gained last year, I played with the dosing myself, put him back to 4, numbers were still high…read TOO much insulin can cause high numbers as well, knocked him to 3, leaking stopped almost immediately and numbers were looking good. This past Thursday, the night before his 3 week follow up he had an episode. I tested his BG and it registered as LO…my meter reads between 20-500, so I gave him his bedtime canned food and a little bit of kibble and he was up and running in no time. Since I was JUST about to crawl into bed when this happened, I didn’t get another BG after, but since he was acting fine and my son was downstairs with him, I wasn’t worried. The next morning, before breakfast he was 323, 30 mins later, before shot, he was 366, and a little over an hour after that, at the vet, he was 280. So, we stayed on 2U but his numbers are just boggling me. I’ll post them in a reply so as not to make this intro look so cluttered LOL. Oh, and in 3 weeks time he gained .6lbs....last 2 days numbers in following reply
 
I'll keep testing until bed tonight, but this is yesterday and today so far...

Fed 1 5.5oz can of Instinct wet food per day, split into 4 feedings..Breakfast and dinner are larger portions than lunch and bedtime snack. And 2 treats given after each shot/BG test

Saturday, 7/29 numbers

840AM 337 —after breakfast, before shot
9amish 2U Vetsulin given
+2.5 hrs LO
+4 49 (after lunch)
+7.5 112
+10 134
+12 171 (I did NOT give him a night time shot)
+13.5 178

Sunday 7/30

9am 333 (before breakfast
+30 mins 300 (NO insulin given)
+2.5 281
+4.5 261 (45 mins or so after lunch)


So, as you can see, today's number are going DOWN on their own...no insulin. I know the numbers are still high, but why/how are they going down without insulin? I'll give him 1U tomorrow and do a curve again and see what that gets us, but I'm just boggled.
 
Hello Tammi,
Vetsulin might not suit Luigi.
Did you read information about Vetsulin, do you know how it works?
I can only tell you now (no time) that vetsulin is composed of two different insulins: one short acting so you need to test 2 hours after injection and a medium one which might produce nadir at +6 or so.

Doing curve on reduced dose of 1u on one day is not going to give any answers. You need a few good cycles on a dose to see how it is affecting Luigi.
 
Hello and welcome Tammi and Luigi! Glad to have you here.

I don't give dosing advice but let me see if I can help you make a wee bit of sense as to what's going on here.

So the insulin is dropping him really hard really fast by the looks of things. (I think Vetsulin does that anyway) To me that sounds like he's getting too much. (By all means I'm happy for someone to correct me here if I'm wrong.)

What you are ideally aiming for are two shootable numbers without Luigi going hypo - you really really want to avoid those 'lo' hypo numbers as they can be pretty dangerous for kitty. Better too high for a while than too low for a minute.

Personally I would be inclined to start a few cycles and hold a much lower dose to see what happens (providing he doesn't drop below a shootable number)
Right now if he's hyping often then he's going to be extra sensitive to insulin anyway for a few cycles after.

Hoping someone with more vetsulin experience than me hops in. :)
 
what do you mean by a cycle? I just tested him again, so +6.5 and it was 297, so he's started going up, again, no insulin this morning.
 
I believe you said he was diagnosed a year ago. Your signature reads 8/2006 so was a little confused by that. Do you know how to add a spreadsheet to signature?
By the way, Vetsulin is a harsher insulin and can drop BG very quickly. Smoky did poorly on it so after a few months I switched him to prozinc which is a gentler insulin.
 
2 units is way too much. Drop to 1 unit... And try to get your spreadsheet set up so we can help easier.
 
what do you mean by a cycle? I just tested him again, so +6.5 and it was 297, so he's started going up, again, no insulin this morning.
Tammi, cycle is 12 hour period between injections so you have two cycles in 24 hours.
I agree with others that you need to reduce to 1u.
Luigi is going up because he needs insulin but as I said before it might not be the best option for him but it is worth trying as some cats do well on it.
So from tonight I think it would be sensible to dose at 1 unit and see how it goes.
 
I'll keep testing until bed tonight, but this is yesterday and today so far...

Fed 1 5.5oz can of Instinct wet food per day, split into 4 feedings..Breakfast and dinner are larger portions than lunch and bedtime snack. And 2 treats given after each shot/BG test

Saturday, 7/29 numbers

840AM 337 —after breakfast, before shot
9amish 2U Vetsulin given
+2.5 hrs LO
+4 49 (after lunch)
+7.5 112
+10 134
+12 171 (I did NOT give him a night time shot)
+13.5 178

Sunday 7/30

9am 333 (before breakfast
+30 mins 300 (NO insulin given)
+2.5 281
+4.5 261 (45 mins or so after lunch)


So, as you can see, today's number are going DOWN on their own...no insulin. I know the numbers are still high, but why/how are they going down without insulin? I'll give him 1U tomorrow and do a curve again and see what that gets us, but I'm just boggled.
________________________________________
Hi and welcome Tammi and Luigi.

It's clear that 2u of Vetsulin is too much insulin given the readings from yesterday and all things considered Luigi is not doing badly with no insulin on board for over 24 hours. What you saw today is the product of what we call bouncing. When the BG drops to levels kitty is no longer familiar with, drops too quickly or drops too low, the body's defences go into action and spill glucose into the bloodstream to bring the BG back up to levels it now considers safe. And in a diabetic, their body thinks higher BG is normal so their defence system has to get recalibrated to not over react. It's best to bring the BG back down to more normal range gradually so the body relearns what normal is.

I would immediately reduce the dose to 1u and get a BG test 2 hours post shot to see how much Luigi has dropped at that point in time. If he is dropping a lot you can feed him a bit of his food to slow the drop down. It looks like his BG will be high enough to get his shot tonight but right now I would not give insulin if his pre-shot reading is 200 or less.

I see others have got you working on the spreadsheet so I'll just add that I would print out the Dealing with Hypos documentation for future reference as Luigi went quite low yesterday.
 
I believe you said he was diagnosed a year ago. Your signature reads 8/2006 so was a little confused by that. Do you know how to add a spreadsheet to signature?
By the way, Vetsulin is a harsher insulin and can drop BG very quickly. Smoky did poorly on it so after a few months I switched him to prozinc which is a gentler insulin.

oops! update to reflect 2016. Thanks! I'm going to work on the spreadsheet tomorrow, I don't have a whole lot of data right now, but hopefully I'll get it in my signature tomorrow.
 
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