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jorda1re

jorda1re

Member Since 2013
Hello and let me start by saying- I am so glad to have found this board!!!

Our cat, Spider, is almost 9 years old. He was originally diagnosed with diabetes on January 8, 2013 after several weeks of trying to figure out why he was refusing food and losing weight. (He was on steroids at the time for a URI, so frequent urination was looked at by the vet as a side effect, not a symptom of something). We started him on Novolin. The vet kept increasing his dose, and in March, he went into insulin shock. Luckily, the vet had warned us what to look for and after a good dose of honey (most of which ended up on his face, I think) he spent the night at the local emergency vet. When he couldn't be stabalized the next day (he had a seizure), we drove 1.5 hours to a specialist/emergency vet. They took amazing care of Spider (and us! We were so worried, and they were so calming and infomative). 5 days later, they had him started on Lantus and he got to come home. Our vet (who had never used Lantus before) worked closely with the specialist on the protocol to increase his dosage after weekly glucose curves, and after 4 weeks, he was considered "reversed."

The last week of July, we started to notice diabetic symptoms again and took him straight to the vet. His spot glucose test was very high and we started him on Lantus again. We've been doing weekly glucose curves, but he doesn't seem to be responding to the insulin as well this time around. He is not drinking as much (we estimate it's taking him 2.5-3 days to consume what he was in a day a few weeks ago) and the urination is less frequent. However, he still acts like he is starving. I am expecting an increase in his dosage (to 2 units) after his curve on Monday, and keep reminding myself and my DH that we have to be patient because it can't be fixed overnight!

I am thrilled to have found the wealth of information here! We are working on creating a new diet for Spider, and I can't wait to read all about that on this site. He's been eating a combination of Science Diet wet and dry food (We've already eliminated the dry food completely). He also eats some Buffalo Blue's canned food (before we figured out he had diabetes and was refusing to eat, the BB duck flavored canned food was the only thing he would eat!) Are these foods ok to keep feeding him? We would like to keep his diabetes from coming back once he reverses again (I am confident this will happen! Positive attitude!!!) The vet is also looking into Hill's perscription food for him.

My DH and I adore Spider, and despite grief from our friends/co-workers about the lengths we went to in order to get him healthy again, we would do it all again!!

I look forward to discussing things with everyone on here!

Becky (& Spider!!)
 
Welcome to the board. I am pretty new here myself, so I won't advise. But you will find great help here, as I have.

donaleen
 
Welcome Becky and Spider!!! I applaud all you did for your sick kitty. I would have too...

Congratulations on eliminating the dry food. I am not sure the Blue Buffalo is low carb. Also, you don't need to buy the expensive Hill's prescription food. We use Dr. Pierson's food list for the best low-carb options food list

Fancy Feast pates and Friskies pates are good, low carb and inexpensive options. But there are more on the list. My kitties eat Tiki Cat and Raw food. When you switch to the lower carb food the bg could fall drastically so you will have to be home testing to he doesn't go hypo again. Sometimes the dose needs to be lowered when the diet is changed and some sugar kitties can be regulated with diet alone. I am so glad you have a knowledgeable vet.

There will be lots of information and support here for you.
 
Hi Becky and sugardude Spider and welcome to the FDMB.

My name is Deb and that tuxie over to the right is my sugardude Wink. He used to be on insulin but has been diet controlled for 5 months now. Never thought that would happen, but it was a wonderful surprise. Wink gets fed the Fancy Feast classic pates and some of the Friskies pates, anything under 10% seems to work well for him and keep him in low numbers (60-90) and off the insulin. The cat shelter had Wink on the Hill's W/d and the Hill's m/d. Those foods only continued to keep his BG's shy high. It was only when I switched him to the low carb Fancy Feast classic pates and Friskies pates that he needed less and less insulin.

You asked if the Blue Buffalo food was ok for a diabetic cat. We don't know. We use this food chart, put together after months of research and calculations by vet Dr. Lisa Pierson. Blue Buffalo did not provide any data to her so we don't have the as fed carb values for those foods. If grains or potatoes or peas or any fruits or vegetables are listed in the first 5-6 ingredients list, then it is likely too high carb for a diabetic cat and will be contributing to keeping the BG levels too high. I see that the Blue Basics Duck has potatoes, oatmeal, peas, carrots as ingredients 3-6. Not something I would feed to a diabetic cat.

You mentioned Science Diet wet and dry, but we need to know what specific ones are being fed. Looking on the food chart, it appears that all the Science Diet adult canned foods are in the 20-29% range. Too high for a diabetic cat. Dry foods are usually 10-20% higher carb than the canned foods.

My recommendation would be to start home testing, and then change to a lower carb food. You may get your cat Spider diet controlled if you do that.
 
Hey there !

Welcome to the board. I totally agree with what the others have said about food and want to reinforce the importance of home testing

1- keeps Spider safe - many cats go into remission or need less insulin when food is changed - if he drops low you dont want to overdose him with insulin
2. Allows you to give your vet more accurate data - cats are stressed at the vet which spikes their blood sugar
3. Cost - its cheaper doing home testing than going to the vets for curves

Let us know and we can give you a home testing shopping list and tips!

Wendy
 
Wow, thanks for all the great advice already and the awesome welcome to this board! My husband and I will be working with the vet to figure out about home testing in the future. How well do your cats tolerate it? The vet has mentioned it but we've not gone into much detail about it.

In regards to Spider's food, I will be switching him over to eating Classic Fancy Feast. I was shopping at Sam's Club and see that they have a large box with 36 cans that I was interested in, but I see that the 3 flavors included were all fish. I believe I have read somewhere that you shouldn't feed fish everyday because of mercury levels. Is this true? If so, I will get other flavors of Classic and mix it in. Should I also be weaning him off his current Science Diet/Blue's food to the lower carb food, so he doesn't get a serious drop all at once?

Again, thanks so much for helping us and our sugarcat!

Becky
 
I have 2 diabetic cats and one of them sleeps through the testing. The other doesnt love it because he doesnt like his ears touched as much but I hold him between my legs and he stands patiently while I test and looks forward to his post test treat. The vet may want to sell you the expensive Alphatrak meter however human meters are almost as good and much cheaper. we can recommend some.

The mercury is true - same as humans - not good to give your cats more than twice a week.

I would wait till you are home testing before weaning off the dry as he could drop fast and you could end up overdosing on the insulin.

Wendy
 
Spider has already stopped eating all hard food for several weeks so I am not too concerned about him crashing from that. However, I am worried about moving him to the low carb wet food from his current diet. I will possibly wait until we start home testing before he switches.

Can anyone explain how the home testing works? Do you have to poke him just like testing human sugar? How often do you test? We've spent so much on Spider recently that my vet tries to save us money whenever she can so I am sure she will be ok with us getting a human monitor.

Thanks again!
 
Yep its totally like testing human sugar. You poke them in the ear - their ears have less nerve endings than our fingers so it doesnt hurt as much as you poking a finger. I have two diabetic cats and they dont mind it at all - one sleeps through it and the other doesnt like his ears being touched so doesnt like the warming process but is happy when he gets his treat after.

We recommend you always test before every shot to ensure you dont shoot when too low. Then its good ot get a test mid day if your schedule allows to ensure he isnt dropping too low. And one before bed.

Heres some tips and videos so you can see how its done : https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

And a shopping list:
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Wendy
 
Would you be willing to update your user control panel and put some information in your signature for us? Top left of screen, user control panel. profile tab, edit signature, type into the free form text box and submit just like you do a post.

Look at my signature for an idea of what we like to see in the signature. Those little tidbits of data help us to help you better.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Would you be willing to update your user control panel and put some information in your signature for us? Top left of screen, user control panel. profile tab, edit signature, type into the free form text box and submit just like you do a post.

Look at my signature for an idea of what we like to see in the signature. Those little tidbits of data help us to help you better.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I didn't do this earlier, but I was updating mostly on my phone as I was out of town and didn't have my laptop. Thanks for the reminder!
 
How are things going with Spider? Have you taken Wendy's list shopping with you yet? :lol:

Wendy&Tiggy said:
We recommend you always test before every shot to ensure you dont shoot when too low. Then its good ot get a test mid day if your schedule allows to ensure he isnt dropping too low. And one before bed.

Heres some tips and videos so you can see how its done : https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

And a shopping list:
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
Click to expand...
 
Things are going ok with Spider. The vet increased his Lantus to 2 units, twice daily. We have not started home testing yet, but it is on the list! (Unfortunately, my DH and I work opposite schedules and it's not easy to both be home at the same time to test. We think it will be best to do it together at first as we did with the insulin shots). The vet told us that she feels Spider will tolerate home testing, based on how he does while getting tested at the vet.

The vet has asked us not to adjust Spider's diet much for the next few days since she increased the Lantus. As I mentioned, we noticed a significant change once we eliminated his dry food. No more guzzling water or peeing too much! The only symptom he's currently showing is wanting to eat all the time. I am concerned that part of this is because without his dry food out to snack on all the time, I may not actually be feeding him enough. I found some info on this board and will adjust his feeding. He's getting multiple smaller meals per day now, too.

Thanks for checking up on us! We've used info and suggestions on this board to help guide our conversations with our vet and our current and future choices for Spider!
 
Waiting until both you and your husband can tackle the testing together is a good idea as it should help relieve some of the initial stress (which cats pick up on quite well). It seems way more intimidating than it really is. I'd rather test my cat for the first time all over again than have to give him a pill! :lol: The first couple of weeks are the hardest as you're developing a new routine, but soon, it'll be so easy that Spidey will be seeking you out for testing. ;-)

jorda1re said:
The vet has asked us not to adjust Spider's diet much for the next few days since she increased the Lantus. As I mentioned, we noticed a significant change once we eliminated his dry food. No more guzzling water or peeing too much! The only symptom he's currently showing is wanting to eat all the time. I am concerned that part of this is because without his dry food out to snack on all the time, I may not actually be feeding him enough. I found some info on this board and will adjust his feeding. He's getting multiple smaller meals per day now, too.
Click to expand...

You might want to check out this discussion on feeding kitties as much as they want (within reason).
 
Spider is still showing signs of being hungry during the day. Before he got sick, Spider was probably eating about 3 oz of soft food per day, so we are looking at a major increase. He eats so fast and so much that I'm worried he'll get sick!

Spider weighs about 13 pounds, so using a formula I found on here, he should be getting about 265 calories per day. If FF Classic is about 90 calories per 3 oz can, he should have about 3 cans per day. However, this is complicated by the fact that the vet asked us not to alter his diet after his last Lantus increase since we are not home testing. So, he's still eating a combination of Science Diet, Blue Wilderness and Fancy Feast Classic. Should I stick with the idea that he should have about 9 oz of food from the combination of these each day? Or do I need to calculate different because the calorie count is different in the SD and Blue's? I just want to make sure he's eating enough, but don't want to mess up his BG until I can home test. (I do not EVER want to have him for hypo on me again, that was terrifying).

I should mention that he's not showing other clinical signs of high sugar compared to 2 weeks ago, so I'm concerned this is actually him being hungry, and not just his BG being too high and making him think he is hungry.

Any advice?
 
Check out the Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature link as additional tools to assess him while you work on blood glucose testing.
 
Cats that aren't regulate yet are hungrier than regulated or non-diabetic cats because there is not enough insulin to process the food correctly. It takes time to find the right dose of insulin, so he will need to eat more food for now, up to 50% more calories.

Think of it this way. Food brings the BG's up. Insulin brings the BG's down. So if you feed a bit too much food, he'll probably have higher BG numbers. That would be safer for now since you are not yet home testing.

"Better too high for a day, than too low for a minute."
 
I fed Maui as much as she needed to eat. WHen starting out, she could eat 2-3 cans of fancy feast at one time. as time progressed and she got regulated on insulin, her demand for food diminished she ate less. I don't count calories or worry about overfeeding - that's my thing, others do count calories.
 
BJM said:
Check out the Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature link as additional tools to assess him while you work on blood glucose testing.
Click to expand...

Just checked these out. What a great list!

Focusing specifically on the food area, Spider cleans his bowl every time. I assume this means he needs more!
 
Hillary & Maui said:
I fed Maui as much as she needed to eat. WHen starting out, she could eat 2-3 cans of fancy feast at one time. as time progressed and she got regulated on insulin, her demand for food diminished she ate less. I don't count calories or worry about overfeeding - that's my thing, others do count calories.
Click to expand...

So should I keep feeding him until there's food left in the bowl and he finally leaves some behind? I've added two additional feeding times spread throughout the day (the vet recommended feeding multiple times per day instead of the 2 we were doing), but he is still eating every last bit.
 
If he is underweight, feeding multiple meals will help him consume more food without getting too full.

And check out kitten foods that are low carb - ex Fancy Feast Kitten Turkey and Giblets. They are intended for growth and development so have more protein (3.5 calories per gram) and fat (8.5 calories per gram).

Until he's regulated, you may feed up to 50% more food to help with the hunger. Add some water and spread thinly across a plate to reduce scarf 'n' barf behavior. Feed several mini meals so he never gets too hungry. Ex at shot time, +2, and +4
 
BJM said:
If he is underweight, feeding multiple meals will help him consume more food without getting too full.
Click to expand...

Luckily, he isn't underweight this time around. The first time he was diagnosed, he had lost 4+ pounds. This time around, we recognized the symptoms early on. I am mostly concerned about him getting enough wet food to replace the dry food that was always left out for his snacking during the day.
 
I leave canned food out all day for my civvies, and did so for Spitzer, too.
 
BJM said:
I leave canned food out all day for my civvies, and did so for Spitzer, too.
Click to expand...

We've been trying this, but if it's out too long, he won't touch it anyway. He is SOOOOO picky!!! (Or spoiled. Maybe this is our fault in the long run!!! :lol: )
 
I have 2 to 3 set "mealtimes" where I clean out and replace their food each day with fresh food: AMS, PMS and bedtime (and sometimes in the middle of the day if they finish off their AMS early). When they get finicky like this, I either replenish/replace their food if there isn't very much left or I add a bit more water and some parmesan cheese and this will usually get them eating it again. If they still won't eat it, I won't give them more till their next "mealtime." I'm not made of money to throw out food for them so if they don't like it, they can starve for a couple of hours. :lol:
 
I've been doing these suggestions and they seem to be helping. Think I have finally figured out the right amount for Spider, too! Plus, for the first time ever, ate the FF in his bowl before his other food (we are weaning him off his preferred Science Diet and Wilderness because he wasn't eating the FF when it was all we tried to feed him.) hopefully this trend continued and we can coincide a larger amount of the lower carb FF with starting home testing next week when his meter arrives!
 
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