Newbie to the boards but not to diabetes

[Holly&Tux]

Hello everyone! My name is Holly and I have a SugarCat named Tuxedo. He is approximately 10 years old and I would say he has been diabetic for the past 5-6 years (I am horrible with dates!). He is currently on 4 units of PZI insulin twice a day.

Now, let me give you a little history on Tuxedo.....we rescued him from the alley behind my work about 8 years ago. After a couple of years we noticed he was urinating all over the house and just didn't seem like he could hold it. Then he started walking funny and we decided it was time to take him to the vet. That is when we found out he was diabetic. He has been on PZI insulin since we found out he was diabetic. Tuxedo seemed to be doing okay as a diabetic until a couple of years ago and then it seemed like everything hit the fan at once. It started with Tuxedo having a seizure. It was the scariest thing I have ever seen and I really don't want to witness it again. We took him to the emergency vet and they checked his blood and it was high so they didn't think diabetes was the culprit. He had the seizure immediately after he had eaten and received his shot so it's hard to believe the two things aren't related but I'm not a vet. After that it seemed like we were going to the vet every week to get his blood checked and his insulin just kept increasing. After a while the vet decided to pull all of Tuxedo's teeth because some of them were infected and a couple were broken and the vet thought this might help regulate his diabetes because infections can wreak havoc on their sugar levels (or something along those lines). So, we got his teeth pulled and it really did seem to help. His next blood glucose test was around 120 (I think. I remember it was low. I'm sure I have it written down at home somewhere)-the vet had me decrease the insulin and I thought we were on the up and up but the next time we went in it was around 300 (when they test his blood glucose it is 6 hours after we have given Tux his shot). At this time, and after reading this website, I decided to buy my own monitor and start home testing. It was pretty intimidating at first but I got the hang of it. Warming up the ear defiantly helps a ton! It is a Bayer Contour meter. We did home testing for a while and the numbers seemed ok but not great. Unfortunately, Tuxedo's brother (Ron) developed Cancer and I just couldn't devote as much time to Tuxedo as I should have and I stopped home testing. Tuxedo has seemed fine but we took him to the vet a couple of weeks ago for a checkup (and a suspected UTI) and it seems like we're on the same roller coaster again. The vet was pretty sure Tux had an infection so he gave him an antibiotic. The fructosamine test was high but the vet suspects that's from the infection so we didn't change his insulin at that time. On Friday, when I got home from work and before Tux was fed or given his shot I decided to test his blood since I hadn't done it in so long and I was curious...it was low. 137. We have had our monitor compared to what the vet uses and there is a 42 point difference with ours being on the low side so that would have put him at a 179 on the vets monitor I did not give him any insulin on Friday night. All weekend I monitored him before he got his shots and a lot of times he was in 300-400 range but some of the time he was in the 500 range. I tried to adjust the insulin according to what I thought was 'safe'. Yesterday, we took him back into the vet and I almost feel more confused. If I was a cartoon character I would have a big question mark on my head! I told the vet about the reading from Friday and he said I could have given Tux his insulin shot anyway because it was taken before food. I wouldn't have felt comfortable doing that. Tux's blood was at about a 300 at the vets office (this would have been 6 hours after his morning shot) which the vet was happy with and said to just stay on the same routine we had been on. I asked the vet about changing Tuxedo's food because he is eating some dry food right now (I didn't realize how horrible dry food was until recently. I was one of those people that thought since the vet was pushing it (Hills M/D) and it was for diabetics it was okay. Wrong!) and of course he tried to push the M/D wet on me which Tux won't eat and there were a couple of others but I told him Tux wouldn't eat any of them. He didn't seem to think feeding Tux dry food was a big issue and didn't even mention anything about decreasing the insulin or testing if I do change his diet. So, yesterday my husband and I went cat food shopping and bought some Merrick (which will have to be a treat at $1.50/can!) and some of the PetSmart Grreat Choice cat food. Last night we fed Tuxedo the Merrick and took away his dry food. He loved it! However, we cannot feed Tuxedo that every day. Tuxedo is a HUGE cat (he is big boned-a definite alley cat-and maybe just a tiny bit plump) and would need about 2-2 1/2 5.5oz cans per day. this morning I tried to feed him the Grreat Choice but he threw it up and then refused to eat it, and I tried two different flavors. I didn't know what to do and ended up putting a little dry food down for him before I left. I am gone from the house from about 7AM-5PM so it's a long time for him to go without food. My husband is home but he works nights so he's usually asleep in the day. So, sorry if this is a big confusing paragraph mess. I am just looking for a little help and guidance and was hoping someone with some more experience might be able to help me out. These are the things I am wondering about...
1. Is the Bayer Contour meter a reliable meter? I love it because it's super easy to use and I can get my supplies on Amazon. But 42 points difference from the vet seems like a lot-is that normal? If there is a better meter out there that is easy to use and can be bought on Amazon please let me know.
2. Is this the correct order of things-test, feed, insulin? If the test number is below a certain number do you not give insulin? I'm just confused because the vet thought it would still be okay to give insulin at 137 but that seems really low to me.
3. Diet! Are there any canned cat foods that I can pick up at Wal Mart that you would recommend (besides Fancy Feast)? Would 9 Lives be something to try? He is not a big fish fan. Also, any tricks for switching your cat from dry to wet food?
4. Any other tips and advice especially regarding when to test and his diet and how to switch his diet would be really appreciated.
Thank you so much for your time and help!
Holly and Tux

 

[BJM]

Welcome!

1. Is the Bayer Contour meter a reliable meter? I love it because it's super easy to use and I can get my supplies on Amazon. But 42 points difference from the vet seems like a lot-is that normal? If there is a better meter out there that is easy to use and can be bought on Amazon please let me know.

Yes. The FDA allows glucometers to measure plus or minus 20% from 'true' lab values.

2. Is this the correct order of things-test, feed, insulin? If the test number is below a certain number do you not give insulin? I'm just confused because the vet thought it would still be okay to give insulin at 137 but that seems really low to me.

Yes. Test-feed-shoot if greater than 200, until you have data showing it is safe to shoot lower

3. Diet! Are there any canned cat foods that I can pick up at Wal Mart that you would recommend (besides Fancy Feast)? Would 9 Lives be something to try? He is not a big fish fan. Also, any tricks for switching your cat from dry to wet food?

We've several food lists you can review - ex Binky's Page and that site also discusses ways to control costs. Avoid anything that says 'gravy' as those tend to have higher carb counts. Cat Info has a number of tips an transitioning to a wet diet.
NOTE: Change food gradually. Sudden changes can provoke GI upsets, vomiting, diarrhea, etc.

4. Any other tips and advice especially regarding when to test and his diet and how to switch his diet would be really appreciated.

Home testing will save you an vet visits ... and may save your cat's life! Please read over the sticky posts at the top of the forum - there are lots of tips and help there.

 

[hmjohnston]

Welcome!

Yes- there is a lot more food out there to choose from. BJM linked you to Bink's List- great place to start. While there are some great high-priced food choices out there we all understand the need to pay for the best you can afford. And what the cat will eat. Fancy Feast, Friskies, 9 lives, Special Kitty, Sheba- Run the gambit of food you can afford and find the ones your cat will eat.

Bayer Contour- that is a very good meter and is used on the board by a lot of people who find it quick, easy, and reliable. Keep in mind that human meters sometimes read lower than pet meters- around 20-30pts lower. Then the variance gets added in- so the difference you got really isn't that different.

The more data you have the more you are able to see what your cat does- how low they drop on a dose. Even though Tuxedo has been diabetic for a long time you don't have his numbers for all that time. In that case, under 200 I wouldn't shoot until you have the data to back it up. The vet really doesn't get it or understand it if but 137 really is too low to shoot 4u of PZI. And, i am guessing, that once you get rid of the dry food forever and switch to low carb foods Tux won't need 4u at all- that is why it is good you are home testing.

Good luck Holly ask all the questions you want

heather

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

What is Tuxedo's ideal weight and how much does he weigh now? Because the feeding recommendations on the can are always FAR more than what most cats need. For example, my Bandit's ideal weight is 12-13 lbs, and he gets about 6 oz of food (either 1 5.5. oz can or 2 3 oz cans) a day. Let's say Tuxedo's ideal weight is 14 lbs, which would be about right for a slightly larger than average male cat. That means he would need about 250 calories a day, which is between 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 5.5 oz cans of Cowboy Cookout (162 cal. per can) per day, not 2-2 1/2. You'd have to have an exceptionally large cat like a Maine Coon or a Bengal to feed that many cans of food. To put it in perspective, an 18 lb cat would need about 2 cans of food a day, and a 24 lb cat would need about 2 and 1/2 cans.

I just wanted to bring this up because maintaining your cat at a healthy weight is really important in managing diabetes, just like with type 2 human diabetics. You certainly don't want to underfeed a diabetic cat, especially if the diabetes is uncontrolled, but if your cat is overweight, you don't want to overfeed, either, as carrying around extra weight can cause higher blood sugar.

 

[Holly&Tux]

Thank you guys for all your support and help!

The more data you have the more you are able to see what your cat does- how low they drop on a dose. Even though Tuxedo has been diabetic for a long time you don't have his numbers for all that time. In that case, under 200 I wouldn't shoot until you have the data to back it up. The vet really doesn't get it or understand it if but 137 really is too low to shoot 4u of PZI. And, i am guessing, that once you get rid of the dry food forever and switch to low carb foods Tux won't need 4u at all- that is why it is good you are home testing.

I thought the 137 was really low too and was pretty worried when my vet said I could have gone ahead and given him his insulin. I know it was a 'before meal' shot but I didn't want to risk it. I guess I could have given him half his insulin but I just never want to see a seizure again in my life and will do anything I can to prevent it.

I am trying to limit Tuxedo's Merrick intake and have been giving him Friskis as well. Of course, he knows he has his mom wrapped around his finger and if he gives me 'the look' I'll pretty much do whatever he wants me to. I have been leaving his dry food down and his wet food down so he has a choice and I don't think the dry food has been touched in over a week! I think it's time to put it up for good. Yay!

What is Tuxedo's ideal weight and how much does he weigh now?

Tuxedo is 16 pounds right now (he is huge). The vet has never told me what his ideal weight is but I would imagine it's between 12-14 pounds. So, 2 cans a day might maintain the weight he is now (16 pounds) but not get him to his ideal weight (which is about 2-4 pounds less)? That makes me feel better. I've been trying to make sure he has at least 2 cans a day so he's not starving but I've probably been overfeeding him.

Another question I have is when to feed him? I give him food before his insulin shot at 6am, then I usually put some in his bowl before I leave for work, I feed him a little more before his night time insulin shot at 6pm and then I put a little more food in his bowl before bed (about 7:30pm-8pm). When I leave for work I am gone for 9 hours so I want to make sure he has some food during the day. If I cut his food back and he runs out of food during the day I know he won't starve but will that effect his blood sugar? When he was first diagnosed the vet told me to try to feed him a little around 11am-noon because his blood sugar would drop around that time. I'm just worried if he eats all his food before 11am and has nothing to eat his blood sugar will dip really low. Is that a possibility?

Again, thank you so much for everyone's help and advice!

 

[hmjohnston]

Some of us have timer feeders that open/turn at a specific time so the cat will be fed through the day/night. Others freeze the food and leave it out to thaw. Currently I put out 2-3 oz when I go to work and place 2 ice cubes on the edge of the food to keep it moist all day.

Frequent small meals are good for them as it does help keep the levels, well, level. But, don't forget that unregulated FD cats are literally starving as they cannot get the nutrients from their food. So limiting food at this time isn't always the best thing to do. Once he gets what he needs from the food he should lessen what he eats naturally. Sneakers went from 18-20 oz/day to 8-10 oz/day once she got regulated- and it was all on her own.

For the dry, when Sneakers had the option of wet or dry she never even looked at the dry :lol: . So it got packed up and taken to the pound.

 

[Holly&Tux]

Thank you! I really think changing his food is going to help. I was worried Tuxedo would still want his dry food because my mom has a dry food addict but Tux seems to be very very happy having just the wet food. Also, he doesn't have any teeth so I'm sure it's a lot easier to eat!