Newbie sugarlump

[Lanerd]

I am so grateful that this forum exists. I can’t quite make hide nor hair out of it yet but I do appreciate that it is available! I have a few questions and I would love some input from all y’all. My Kitty Mao is 15 years old and newly diabetic. Her levels were 600 when we finally got her diagnosed. It was all of a sudden, in May I had been told to put her on the hills science K/D diet because her kidneys were starting to show elevated levels and within a month of that she started peeing and drinking and sleeping a lot. We have been doing injections of Levemir for a month today. We started with one unit bid and the next week she had dropped to 256. We upped the dosage to 1 1/2 units bid and last week her last test was 107! We have stayed on that dosage and we go back in today to see what her BG is. My vet has told me to keep feeding her the KD diet and it’s OK to free feed her, she doesn’t eat too much. They said that they conferred with the hills science people and that based on her kidney levels being what they were they recommended her stay on the KD diet and not move to anything else. I’ve read so many things that say don’t free feed, only feed wet food, and so on and so forth. But she seems so happy now and is doing so much better than she was a month ago. I know every animal is different, so I’m feeling confident that what I’m doing right now at this point is OK. I would much rather have her on just wet food, ideally on a homemade diet, but I know that there’s sooo much more to that than I have the bandwidth for. She mainly eats the dry kibble, but she will eat around 1/2 tablespoon of the wet food if I put tuna juice on it. She really liked Tiki cat before all of this happened and I want to know if that could be something I could maybe add into her wet food to get her to eat more of that as opposed to the kibble. I also went to fill her prescription yesterday at our local Walmart pharmacy and I did not know that the Levemir was going to be almost $400 for a month supply. I am at a loss as I cannot feasibly afford that and everything else at this time, however I know that it is the best insulin for her (or at least that’s what the vet has told me).

So my real questions are:

1: does anyone know how to get discounted levemir through any outlet?

2: if the KD diet is going to become problematic in the long term?

3: if the vet tells me I can switch her to Lantis or something comparable, is there going to be any issues with dosage, has anyone switched from Levemir to any other insulin and had success?

Thank you to anybody and everybody that has made it this far in this long-winded, slightly nervous, cat moms first post. I appreciate any input and/or advice.

Much love everybody!

 

[Ann & Sister]

Welcome to the message board. Glad you found it. As I read a while back, it's the best place you never wanted to be (or something like that).
I am certain the experts will help you out any moment. As a Newbie with a kitty diagnosed in late May, these are my initial thoughts:
When one of my kitties had lung cancer in 2019, her bloodwork also showed "higher kidney values". I asked if we needed to address that, and my vet replied, "No, that is on the back burner. We expect to see higher levels in a 14-year old cat. It's pretty normal for kidneys to decline with age." No special vet foods were prescribed. So I question if your cat needs it right now, especially with the diabetes diagnosis. You will want to improve her diet to get the diabetes under control. And dry food is not an ideal path to remission. It seems to me that you have been increasing the insulin dose in order to keep feeding the dry food. Why not start feeding low calorie wet and bring down the blood glucose numbers that way? I WISH my cat liked wet food. Yours already does. Make use of that ace.
Regarding switching to Lantus, for instance, it has been done. I have viewed a spreadsheet recently where they did that with guidance from the FDMB.
I buy Lantus at CVS, a 10ML vial, for $99 with a coupon/discount they found for me. It should last Sister 5 months which is affordable. If you cannot find a discount here, you can order from a Canadian pharmacy, for instance.
Hang in there.

 

[Lanerd]

Welcome to the message board. Glad you found it. As I read a while back, it's the best place you never wanted to be (or something like that).
I am certain the experts will help you out any moment. As a Newbie with a kitty diagnosed in late May, these are my initial thoughts:
When one of my kitties had lung cancer in 2019, her bloodwork also showed "higher kidney values". I asked if we needed to address that, and my vet replied, "No, that is on the back burner. We expect to see higher levels in a 14-year old cat. It's pretty normal for kidneys to decline with age." No special vet foods were prescribed. So I question if your cat needs it right now, especially with the diabetes diagnosis. You will want to improve her diet to get the diabetes under control. And dry food is not an ideal path to remission. It seems to me that you have been increasing the insulin dose in order to keep feeding the dry food. Why not start feeding low calorie wet and bring down the blood glucose numbers that way? I WISH my cat liked wet food. Yours already does. Make use of that ace.
Regarding switching to Lantus, for instance, it has been done. I have viewed a spreadsheet recently where they did that with guidance from the FDMB.
I buy Lantus at CVS, a 10ML vial, for $99 with a coupon/discount they found for me. It should last Sister 5 months which is affordable. If you cannot find a discount here, you can order from a Canadian pharmacy, for instance.
Hang in there.

thank you so much for your input. I just got back from her recheck appointment and her BG level was 80, so they are going to have me dial back her night dose to one unit and continue with the 1 1/2 units in the morning. My vet is an overwhelmed, always bustling clinic in a rural part of Oregon where are you are lucky if you get 10 minutes to talk with the doctor. It gets hectic but they are very adept at what they do and part of our conversation did rest upon the food. they do think that she should stay on the KD diet. I personally didn’t want to up her dosage, they only had me up it because they wanted her levels to be lower than 264. The vet did give me a full flexpen of Levemir which should last us at least two more months which is amazing.. she’s now home, happily grooming herself in the sun and I feel a little bit of relief. We have another recheck appointment next week, but I really do want to start doing her testing at home, even though our vet office is five minutes away it’s still is very stressful for her to have to go. Thank you again for your input and advice, I’m going to look into pharmacies in Canada for better pricing.

 

[Ann & Sister]

We have another recheck appointment next week, but I really do want to start doing her testing at home, even though our vet office is five minutes away it’s still is very stressful for her to have to go. Thank you again for your input and advice, I’m going to look into pharmacies in Canada for better pricing.

Can you pick up a glucometer and test strips soon? There is at least one video here showing how to get a sample from kitty's ear. Eighty is a great number for a BG. It would be great if you could check her pre-shot BG number. For instance, what will her BG be in the morning when you increase the dosage from 1U to 1.5U? Without testing, you won't know.
Hugs to you. I know this is a lot to handle.
I do hope cat owners who are also dealing with kidney issues will assist you ASAP.

@JanetNJ
@JoyBee&Ravan

 

[Librarianista]

Welcome! You are in good hands here.

I am not familiar with Levemir personally, but most insulins can be used well past the 28-day time frame if properly stored in the fridge. So you shouldn’t need to throw out the stuff if it’s still usable!

If you haven’t seen it yet, here’s a thorough intro to how your insulin works with your cat and what to be on the lookout for:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139

I am no expert (hopefully some will be on here soon), but generally we give the same dose morning and evening. A consistent routine is what will help you cat get most regulated. It does certainly sound like she doesn’t need as much as you had been giving her with numbers like that.

As many will chime in here, I would highly recommend testing your cat’s BG at home. Not only will it save you money on vet visits, but you’ll also be able to adjust the dosage your cat needs. This will also be SUPER important if you switch to wet food, which is one of the best things you can do for a diabetic kitty. My cats glucose levels dropped significantly when switching her off dry and prescription food to Friskies and Fancy Feast pates (low carb - there’s a great chart linked in the forum).

I hate to sound cynical, but pet food companies are in the business of making money, not usually doing what’s best for the cat. So of course they’re going to want to keep your cat on their product. And most vets are not dietitians - they’ll default to the cat food company’s advice. In many cases, prescription food is only more expensive, not better quality. Again, not sure about your cat’s specific conditions. But regarding diabetes, this is definitely the case. There are definitely others here who manage diabetic cats with kidney issues, so use the search function or post a new question for specific help with that!

Switching is usually not a problem. I switched to Lantus from Vetsulin, which is apparently terrible for cats. That was out of her system pretty quickly, and it takes a couple of days to build up the Lantus depot. It’ll be a couple of days before the Levemir is totally out of her body because that’s also a depot insulin (all explained in the post I linked to), but switching won’t hurt your kitty.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Just a few thoughts...

You can purchase Levemir through Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver. The prices for insulin out of Canada are much more wallet friendly. Many people here purchase their insulin through Mark's.

Lantus and Levemir act in an almost identical way - well, their pharmacology is different but how they work in kitties is very similar. They are both depot-types of insulin that are long acting and well suited for cats. Like Lantus, it requires consistency. You really need to give the same dose at each shot time otherwise your numbers will destabilize because you are not allowing the depot to be at a steady state. Many vets treat depot insulins (Lantus and Levemir) like the shorter acting insulins. They work entirely differently. There is more information about Levemir and Lantus in the sticky notes on the Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir board.

Frankly, I would not take advice about diet from a pet food company. It's a conflict of interest -- of course they are going to tell your vet to keep your kitty on their food!! I would encourage you to take a look at this site, written by a vet, on feline nutrition. In addition, if you are looking for information on kidney issues, Tanya's site is the Bible for feline CRF. Getting as much water into your kitty as possible is crucial. Thus, canned food is way better than kibble and you can add water to the canned food. Depending on what stage of kidney problems Mao is at, all you may need to do at this point is be careful to keep the phosphorus levels in her food as low as possible. We have lists of low carbohydrate, low phos foods. If the kidney issues are advanced, you can ask the vet to prescribe a phosphorus binder and you can feed her whatever canned food she likes!

I'd encourage you to look at this post on helping us to help you. There is information on setting up a spreadsheet and your signature along with other basic you may find helpful.

 

[Lanerd]

I. Love. You. All. Thank you so much for the input, I’m going to assimilate it all over the course of this weekend!!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Found this when I did a search in the search box
Posted by one of our members
For kitties with kidney problems



. First number is carb percentage, second is mgs of phosphorus/100 cals, all less than 10% carb and less than 250 mg phos:

Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites can 6% 118
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen La Isla Bonita can 3% 166
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Meowiss Bueller pouch 7% 174
Weruva Truluxe Glam 'N Punk can 0.6% 180
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Fowl Ball can 4% 180
Weruva Classic Pates Jeopurrdy Licious pouch 4% 187
Weruva Classic Pates Family Food pouch 0% 191
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cattyshack pouch 9% 211
BFF PLAY Tuna & Salmon Shhh... pouch 3% 223
BFF PLAY Tuna & Turkey Totes! pouch 2% 226
BFF PLAY Tuna & Chicken Chill Out pouch 2% 226
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cat to the Future pouch 8% 235
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates The Breakfast Cat pouch 9.7% 235
Weruva Classic Pates Meal of Fortune pouch 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Lamburgini can 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip can 8% 248