Newbie: Pokey and Mommy (Wendy)

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PokeysMom

PokeysMom

Member Since 2012
My cat Pokey and I have been battling a giardia infection for some time. Pokey has always drank a large amount of water and has been overweight for a few years. My vet suggested a full blood profile and we found a glucose level of 400. I started to tear up in the office. We've been battling so many things in the last two years. He's turning 9 next month. Other than the diabetes, he's a healthy, happy, slightly overweight (16.5 pounds today) cat. My vet sent use home with Purina DM (which I am going to end up taking back and switching over to a canned wet food) and a bottle of Glipizide Tablets 5 mg at a dose of a half tablet twice daily. We go back in two weeks (Oct. 8th) to retest his blood glucose levels. He's decent at pill taking. He's going to be unhappy with scheduled feedings again and no more people food with the exception of a little bit of yogurt every now and then (he needs his probiatics and so do I).

Pokey likes pate style canned food. Can anyone recommend some verity of good, low carb, fairly inexpensive canned food? He loves chicken and fish flavors. He does prefer his crunchies over wet food, but I'm such I can get him to eat only canned.

After reading a bunch of stuff on here, I am also considering getting the Smart Cat Litter System and plan to test his urine. I don't know if I could test his blood glucose myself, and the urine testing sounds less stressful for both of us.

Is there anything else I should know right away? Any other help and support is greatly appreciated.
 
Hello Wendy (and Pokey!), and welcome to the FDMB forum!

We all know that it can be pretty overwhelming at first when our cats are diagnosed with diabetes. We've all been there! but you have come to a great place for support and advice. :-)

I can't help with food choices because I'm in the UK and our food brands are different here (and far fewer!). But it is great that you are switching Pokey to canned low carb food. And I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions for brands that won't 'break the bank'. Removing the dry food could make a significant difference to Pokey's BG levels however, so you may be wise to monitor his blood glucose levels during the switchover.

Regarding testing your cats blood glucose at home, I know it sounds scary (I was convinced I could never, ever, ever do it....) but you would gain a huge amount of information about your cat's diabetes. So please don't rule out the idea entirely. And please be aware that it is possible for cats to hypo on Glipizide as well as on insulin.

You may like to read the following recent thread started by another Mom in a similar situation to yours.
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79761

Best wishes,

Elizabeth
 
I posted the food links in your other thread: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79771&p=861970#p861970

Glipizide is not recommended as treatment for diabetes. From what I udnerstand, glipizie further "burns out" the pancrease and kills off what little remaining healthy insulin producing cells are left. Pilling cats is pretty hard as well, not to mention dry pilling can lead to something called erosive esohpagitis: http://catinfo.org/?link=pillingcats Why did the vet decide on glipizide rather than insulin?

Blood gluocse testing at home is much more accurate then urine testing. It tells you what the level is right then and there. With urine testing, glucose builds up in the urine since the last litter box use so by the time you get a reading, the glucose level is really high and give you a high reading.

There are many people here who thought they could never do blod gluocse testing on their cat but soon learned that it was no problem at all :smile: It does take a bit of time to get the hang of but it CAN be done. Giving the cats treats afterwards helps a lot.
 
Welcome Wendy and Pokey!

As mentioned, Glipizide is not recommended for cats, and I would urge you to stop the pills and get a script for insulin right away. Here's a link to the American Animal Hospital Association Diabetes Guidelines for you to print and bring to your vet: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf. Note p. 218, where it states:

Oral hypoglycemic drugs, combined with diet change, are only indicated if owner refuses insulin therapy or is considering euthanasia.These agents are not considered appropriate for long-term use.
Click to expand...

Glipizide does not work in most cats, and can end up causing permanent damage to the pancreas, which would mean your cat will still likely end up on insulin, but for the rest of its life instead of temporarily. On the other hand, 86% of newly diagnosed cats go into remission with the right insulin (Lantus or Levemir), a low carb canned diet, and dose adjustments via daily home blood glucose testing. Here's another article for you to bring to your vet that discusses this in more detail:


It is in both your and Pokey's best interest to get started on insulin right away. There is a window on remission, so the longer you wait, the harder it is to obtain.
 

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Greetings Pokey and Wendy!

Well, the others have covered home testing and proper insulin so I will give you a link to the food:

The correct FOOD-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0 (called Hobo's List)
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (called binky's list)
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food%20Char ... -22-12.pdf (new list from CatInfo.org)

You want to look for canned food that is low carb. The two lists above are ones that we use- look for the %kcal/carbs- under 10 (5 is better) in both lists. Feed the best you can afford. Most do Fancy Feast, Friskies, 9-lives. This will also help with the UTI- dry food is, well, dry. Canned food has more moisture and when you add water to it the water content is increased- all the better to pee a lot. You do NOT need vet prescription food- it is overpriced, high carbs, and contains high quantities of liver- which most cats won't eat day in and day out. If you bought some just take it back and say your kitty stopped eating it. They should refund even if it is opened. You also should consider feeding several small meals throughout the day. Not only is a diabetic cat losing weight- the reason is because they are literally starving, unable to get the nutrients out of the food they are eating. Give more food in small meals and your cat will slow down once they start getting the nutrients out.

Good luck on these changes.

heather
 
Wendy & Pokey,
We are in the same boat you are. Eddie was diagnosed just a couple weeks ago. Our vet also prescribed Glipizide for his treament. He seems to be doing pretty well on it but it scares me that this could do furthur damage (as I have been informed of from everyone here). I was feeding him the expensive prescription food our vet gave us but have since switched him back to fancy feast and took away all the dry food. He really did not like the W/D that we started with anyway and I found that it is much higher in carbs then the same stuff you can buy at the grocery store (Fancy Feast, Friskies, etc). Good luck to you and you will find a wealth of information on this site (as I did). I'm new to this too and I learn something new each day I visit this forum.
 
Dearest Wendy and Erin,

It is so hard to get advice that is contrary to your vet. We can just tell you what has worked for the thousands of cats who have used the protocol on this forum for the past 13 years. We know insulin works and we know how to monitor a cat who is on it. We know wet low carb food works; sometimes it is even all a cat needs when first diagnosed. We see lots of cats daily and give the same advice to them all.

I love my vet. But she started me on a dose that was too high, without letting me know I could test at home. I started reading here, started testing immediately and realized quickly he needed less insulin. She was willing to learn from my experiences; she now promotes home testing.

It's your job to read all you can and question both us and your vet and make the decision that you think is best for your kitties.

Let us know how we can help.
 
Hi Wendy-
I'm new to the board as well and have really found this information helpful.
Our vet prescribed Hills M/D (dry) and told us we did not need to do home testing. She started us on 2U twice daily and then had us come back in one week. I've done so much research and we made the decision to trust instincts and the board and basically start over slower and lower. We also totally changed his diet to raw. We started home testing last week and it really hasn't been that bad. Of course, the first couple days required so much testing I felt sorry for poor Fur Ball's ear. I'm not very good at it so my husband does most of the testing and shots.
We haven't been back to the vet yet, but when we do, we are going to print our spreadsheet and have a candid conversation with her about all that we have learned.
Welcome aboard.
Karen
 
Wow! Thanks for all the information. I am talking to the vet after classes tomorrow and I will bring the articles with me. I will suggest we stop the Purina DM and Glipizide and start the insulin. We went with the Glipizide because we are poor and this was cheaper. He has had success with DM and Glipizide in the past. But I know Purina is junk food. I will discuss a change in the feeding schedule. I hate twice a day feedings anyway. I will take advantage of the testing kit offered on this site. That will help get me started. I know how to test and give shots to humans. It won't take much to learn how to do a cat. I know he's not allowed people food anymore, but would a little bit of skinless white chicken breast as a testing treat be alright for him? It's his favorite food. To be honest, I feel overwhelmed here. I trust my vet, but he did mistakenly diagnose my cat with sinus cancer early last year. My boyfriend doesn't trust him at all. We live in a small community so vets are limited and so is their knowledge. I hope I can educate my vet and maybe encourage one of them (it's an office with 3-4 vets) to became a bigger expert than me on feline diabetes. I have a feeling this is going to be a long process.
 
Yes, plain chicken with no spices is a great treat. Lots of people bake it, cut it up and freeze it, then use one piece at a time.

Get the kit from us. Then the insulin will be the most expensive part of this whole thing. It is worth it to get one of the quality insulins like Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc. They are easier to regulate with and give you the best change for regulation/remission. But you will save money because you won't need any vet testing. And Friskies and Fancy Feast will be much less expensive than the prescription stuff. So it will balance out.
 
I would ask the vet for a script for the Lantus/Levemir pens--they are far more economical than the vial. Even though it's a bigger cost up front, it saves you money over time because you're not wasting any insulin. Walmart usually has the cheapest price--I believe it's about $245 for a pack of five pens there, but keep in mind that one pack will last you at least 6 months, but more likely a year, vs. $130 every couple months for a new vial. Here's a coupon for $25 off the pens: https://mprsetrial.mckesson.com/lantus5670/appSecLantus5670CouponReq.jsp

You can also use your script to order insulin online from Canada, where it's way cheaper. Here's the links for that: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1FCnrPxpYD02Gp5hWtEIbhLXm0VOyaZlAT_qeCjlx-Js.

Getting your cat on the right insulin, food and treatment plan now will pay off for you in the long run--one thing that I learned through my experience with diabetic cats is that the things you think are saving you time and money in the present (like cheaper insulins and testing infrequently) are definitely costing you huge amounts down the road. The cheapest and healthiest place for a diabetic cat to be is in remission, so it's in you and your cat's best interest to put in the initial money and time working towards that goal, since the large majority of diabetic cats reach remission if the right treatment is followed, and the earlier you start the better your chances.

I was so broke when Bandit was diagnosed, and ponying up the money for insulin was a huge deal to me (I ended up charging it on a card and paying it back over time). But we managed it, and now I have no additional expenses for him other than a bottle of test strips every so often.
 
The price of all this is the biggest hurdle for me. We just don't have that kind of money right now. How do those insulin pens work? I know I don't have that kind of money again until February when I get another refund of my financial aid. i return the Purina DM and discontinued the Glipizide for now. We are doing two weeks on wet food (Friskies) first. His vet and I spent an hour talking about treatment. He and I agreed to the wet food diet and then adding Glipizide at 2.5 mg twice a day if his BGs doesn't improve in that time. He has never had a problem with the other cats that have been on it at the lower doses before. If the Glipizide doesn't work, he will prescribe PZI insulin for him. I'm going to order a test kit from here and I will donate the $7 shipping now and I will donate an additional $10 in November. I plan to donate when I can to help other people get started.
All of this is just so overwhelming for me right now. The cost of everything is so high. My boyfriend is all negative over the costs which isn't helping. Because Pokey is an emotional support animal that I have a prescription to have, he falls under medical deductions. That includes vet bills, meds, food, litter, etc, so I can get some of this money back. I haven't claimed him in the past because it wasn't an issue. I plan to do it now. Is there a pet insurance out there that helps cover this cost also?
 
Price is definitely the biggest hurdle we all have :lol: . I need to find out how to get Sneakers onto that program so I can get reimbursed for her meds and vetty bills :twisted: :razz:

If you can get a script for pens from your vet- either Lev or Lantus, someone who buys the 5 pack might be willing to sell you a pen for just the cost of the pen and shipping before you go to the expense of larger purchase. At .5u or 1u one pen could last months. And, if there is someone in your area that you can meet up with instead of shipping it to your that can save a bunch as well. A pen can cost anywhere between $45-$55. Some pharmacies may let you buy just one but it depends on the pharmacy policy.

When I bought the ProZinc (and you do need to check availability as some areas have a shortage until the end of the year) it was $120 or so. That was in January. I am on Lev now as Sneakers is a high dose kitty and guzzles insulin like water sometimes.
 
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