Newbie needing help

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Sandy&Tommy

Member Since 2013
Please help. I tested Tommy at BG 312 this evening, and then gave him his shot his shot. I fed him some low carb wet food. I tested again +3hrs at BG 81. Should I give him something to raise his BG before I retire for the night? I figure that I will need to test again tonight.Thank you for your help.
 
He is at a safe number but that is a big drop and early in the cycle. I'd give him some HC gravy (a tsp or two) and check him in 30 mins to see if that has slowed him down.

It's usually best to get a couple non-food influenced, rising numbers before you sleep for the night. And I'm assuming he's on lantus? If he's on PZI, the cycle will likely not last as long as the lantus cycle will and because lantus is a depot insulin, you could have a longer duration than 12 hours depending on how long he's been at this dose.
 
Ok, I gave him a little HC food. (I'm assuming that means high carb) I will test in another 30 min. He is not on lantus, he takes PZI. His vet started him on 3 units BID. Yesterday was my first day testing and that drop quite frankly scared me. If he is lower in 30 min, should I give him a bit more to eat? Thank you so very much!
 
Yes, if he's lower in 30 minutes, give him another tsp or two of HC food. And post the number here. I'll be watching for it.
 
Okay, thanks. Right now he is watching an area by the stove, hoping I'm sure that he will see a mouse. We live in the country and this time of year a couple usually show up. He doesn't show any hypo signs, but I'm sure that this has probably been the lowest he's been in a while. Sorry I'm rambling. A year ago he was 19 lbs and he was 13.5 at his diagnosis last week. He's around 10 or 11. We rescued him around 7 years ago. He is sweet and lovable. He has let me test and shoot him without much fuss. I think he dislikes the ear rubs more than the poke, lol!! We have two other cats and it has been a challenge to feed them as they have been use to dry free feeding. They hover over Tommy while he gets that yummy wet food, hoping for a morsel. I'm considering changing those two to wet food as well.

It's been 30 min, I will go and test him now. BRB
 
Yes, the big loss of weight is pretty common. My cat weighed 22 pounds, and six months later when he was diagnosed, he was down to 12. I was lucky like you, because he didn't put up a fuss with the pokes and shots either.

If you can switch the other two to canned, that would be fantastic. And best for their long-term health as well.
 
I also wanted to ask..

Your SS said you switched to canned food just today?
Did you let your vet know that?
The reason I ask is that switching to LC wet usually results in a significant drop in BG levels very quickly. I think that might be what you are seeing tonight. Usually we recommend that the dose gets reduced when making a sudden change in diet. I'm thinking Tommy will need less insulin than 3 units going forward.
Can you call your vet in the morning and see what they think?

I'm thinking 1.5u maybe? Or even 1u.
 
His BG was 79. He was quite stubborn with this test. I started him on wet food gradually and took to it right away. I mixed the LC into the HC a little more each feeding. Since tonight he tested at 312, (AM was 446) I gave him all LC for his supper.
His vet wanted him on Royal Canin Diabetic dry formula, but after researching here I knew he needed to switch. When I mentioned this to her a day later, she said that he would always be on insulin unless he ate this dry food, but that was "my choice". I'm hoping to show her how healthy he can be with the LC food.
If he does have more problems tonight I will call her in the morning.
 
As for the ss, I started that yesterday as I had just learned about doing it. Today was the first day of all LC food. I figured I would put this down as a starting point.
I re-read your last post and will call the vet to lower the dosage.
 
Definitely call her even if you don't see any more problems tonight. Let her know that you got a 79 tonight, after only three and half hours after the shot, and that you had to feed him to keep the numbers at that level. She should tell you that the dose needs to be reduced.

And you already know this, but she's 100% incorrect with her "he would always be on insulin unless he ate this dry food" thinking. The key to controlling diabetes is low-carbohydrates. That's what people who are diabetic have to do. Cats are no different. Literally thousands of cats say "your vet is wrong".

It is highly unlikely that a cat who is fed prescription "diabetes" dry food will ever go into remission. The odds, when put on a low-carb canned diet, improve immensely. If your vet is familiar with PZI, she should also be familiar with Dr. Hodgkins, who is a leading authority on treating diabetes with Prozinc or PZI. Or Dr. Peterson. If she knows who they are, she should also know that both of them strongly advise a low-carb canned diet. She can also go to http://www.catinfo.org to see what Dr. Pierson has to say about dry food, low-carb wet food, and feline diabetes.

If you want to feed another spoon or two of food, you should. I think it's been 4 hours since the shot? PZI usually reaches its peak about 5-6 hours after the shot, so his numbers might still drop. 79 is low enough.
 
I fed him more. Since he really isn't in hypo I will go to bed and test again in a few hours.
I will definitely call her in the morning. It was a blessing that I found this site as I know Tommy has a good chance at a great life! I'm convinced that the LC is the only way to go.
You are a blessing as well as I was scared for Tommy. I've dealt with diabetes for many years as my daughter was dx type 1 at age 7. She is a healthy 34 year old. I also supervise a group home where I am the primary caregiver of a type 1 diabetic. He was out of control when I started there and since then his insulin has been decreased 3 times, with his latest A1c at 5.2. I have total dedication to those special people (and my feline family) and will fight for them whenever I can.
Thanks, again.
 
You are very welcome! Good that you have lots of experience dealing with human diabetes. And fantastic that your daughter is 34 and healthy. :-D

FD isn't that much of a difference. Except cats can't tell you how they feel, and they metabolize insulin about twice as fast as a human does. Oh, and they can go into remission too!

Glad you found us too. And don't hesitate to ask any questions that come up. This place is pretty amazing.
 
Great job on catching a lowering number. Low carb really made a big difference for him. (Our Oliver dropped 100 points overnight when we switched.)

What was his number this am? (having a low number when he has been higher may cause a bounce this am - not because he needs the higher dose of insulin but because his body sensed a lower number and released some extra glucose to compensate). I'd still suggest you go with Carl's idea of 1 unit (or 1.5 if you can monitor). We like raising the dose based on numbers rather than reducing the dose after a scary low number. With PZI, if you can get the data, you can slowly raise every few cycles.
 
He was 356 this am. When I saw the number I sad to my husband that Tommy probably rebounded. I did reduce his insulin per his vets instruction. I will test again in a few hours.
 
I think your thoughts on him rebounding are right on the money. We call that a "bounce" here. I'm glad his vet advised a reduction in dose.
 
Tommy's BG at +5 was 196. The lower dose kept him in a safer zone for now. He was good about the test this time. :-D
 
Welcome to FDMB!

Good for you for home testing the glucose, too. The following info should be helpful to you.

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers.
(May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

= 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- the lowest level pre-shot for ProZinc, PZI, or other non-depot insulins.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as mid-cycle data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
 
They are in the 300's in am, then at +3 around 200's and at +5 the high 100's. I work early today so I will only get a +3 today. Husband won't test. That unfortunately was the trade off in place of putting him down. I do all the work. He will give him his shot though when I'm at work.
 
Not bad for a very new diabetic and reduced dose. It may be that the food continues to lower the numbers also. We usually look for a 50% drop at nadir and he is lower than that. Now for a lower preshot. I'd keep collecting the numbers when you can and watch for trends.

Sorry about DH's attitude. You are not the only one around here in that same position. Sometimes once they see how well things are working and how much better the kitty feels they come around. I have also seen people get their husbands engaged once they get hooked on the science of the whole thing.
 
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