Newbie looking for feeding advice

[MrsCLyn]

Hi all -- just got word my 6yr old cat has tested positive for diabetes. I'm taking the advice of a few vet sites and this forum to change his diet first then test again before going on insulin. He's fully off all dry food and is eating can only which is under 10 carbs. I have 2 cats and usually can food is a treat so both are thrilled at the change.

In 3 days I already see a difference in that he's gaining the weight he lost (he was already skinny), and he's not going after his food as though it was his last meal. He's also isn't drinking water as though he was in a desert. So at the 10 day mark I'll retest him and see if he still needs insulin.

I'd like to try making some of my own food for a few of his meals to see if its something that'll work for us. I don't have a grinder and can't afford to invest in one that would handle bones. There is a butcher that I'm going to contact to see what he can do but it doesn't look like he does liver anything. I was thinking of asking if he can grind chicken thighs with skin and bone?

What can I do to ensure I mix healthy meals without having to purchase TCFeline mix? In the US the cost is almost double what it is in Canada.

 

[MrsCLyn]

On the catinfo.org site the cats are eating chicken breasts with bones. I was told by "?" (always the infamous 'they') that chicken bones easily split so cats shouldn't get them? Or is that just cooked ones?

I have a neigbor who grows and kills her own chickens. Can I take the carcus and organs and do something with them?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi again!
I feed my cat a complete raw diet of muscle meat, organs and bone. I don't use a grinder at all. Harry eats chicken bones no problem at all....usually chicken necks, wings and small drumsticks. Necks are probably the best ones to start with. You can hammer them a bit to break up the bones in the beginning if you like.
You could certainly use the chicken carcasses and organs from your neighbour. The chicken breast bones are also ok to give.
I also use a variety of other meats...beef, kangaroo, lamb, pork, turkey but only use the bones of the chicken or sometimes the turkey. Always use human grade meat not cat grade.
Never give cooked bones as they are dangerous. Raw bones are fine.
I find a home made raw diet is much cheaper than canned car food and healthier.

I have to go out right now but I will come back later and post the portions I give as that is important.

 

[MrsCLyn]

Thanks Bron and Sheba,

I guess what's confusing is what this looks like. Is the chicken plucked? Do you get it from the butcher? Are just chicken parts tossed on a plate?

I see this should be easy but I'm confused.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

I was told by "?" (always the infamous 'they') that chicken bones easily split so cats shouldn't get them? Or is that just cooked ones?

Yes, cooked chicken bones should never be fed to cats since they have sharp edges after being bitten/chewed by a cat. The sharp edges can wreck havoc with a cat's stomach/intestines
In a diet, bones provide the needed calcium and other minerals

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Thanks Bron and Sheba,

I guess what's confusing is what this looks like. Is the chicken plucked? Do you get it from the butcher? Are just chicken parts tossed on a plate?

I see this should be easy but I'm confused.

I buy chicken from the supermarket .....what we would eat. Drumsticks, thigh fillets, breast, wings etc.
All the meat is bought from the supermarket or butcher.
Yes you would need to pluck the chicken but the skin is OK.

If you are going to feed a home prepared raw diet you will need to feed it in correct portions.
Muscle meat 80%..... all the pieces of chicken I mentioned, beef, pork, lamb, heart. Try and give a variety.
10% bone.......chicken wings, chicken necks.....about three times a week is usually enough as long as they eat it all.
10% organ....of which 5% is liver (chicken or lamb or beef). Do not give more than about 70 grams a week.
...............and 5% secreting organ ( I use lamb or beef kidney).
I also give a raw egg yoke a week and sardines once or twice a week.
I don't cut it up small but that is up to you. I usually feed three times a day and give about 150 to 180 grams of food in total per day for a 5 kg cat but ECID and may need more or less.

Here are some sites for you to look at. The hardest bit is deciding to do it and working out the portion sizes correctly. You only have to do that once though and then you are set.
I feed a frankenprey diet which I find is great. I just supplement taurine and sardines ( for fish oil.)
A lot of people feed a standard raw diet and use quite a few supplements and this is good too.
These supplements are needed ( they are not optional) .
You don't have to use a grinder. I never have. If your cats will eat bone then you don't have to worry about a calcium replacement. If they won't eat bone you will have to use bone meal, egg shell powder or another calcium replacement.
It all probably sounds too hard but really it isn't. I have been feeding a raw diet for several years.
If you have any more questions just tag me....more than happy to help

Here are three site to look at. There are plenty more online. Just write in raw diet for cats.

http://catcentric.org/nutrition-and-food/raw-feeding/a-frankenprey-and-whole-prey-feeding-guide/

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/how-to-transition-your-cat-to-a-raw-diet

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers

 

[MrsCLyn]

Thanks VERY much-- I'll go over this and the links. But you said " If your cats will eat bone then you don't have to worry about a calcium replacement.". Do they actually eat the entire bone?

And you can by 'heart' at the supermarket. What kind of heart are you talking about?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Thanks VERY much-- I'll go over this and the links. But you said " If your cats will eat bone then you don't have to worry about a calcium replacement.". Do they actually eat the entire bone?

And you can by 'heart' at the supermarket. What kind of heart are you talking about?

Yes, Harry eats the entire bone of the chicken necks and the wings and often the legs if it is not a big chicken leg. The chicken wing breaks up into three pieces, all of which they can eat. The two smaller pieces have smaller bones so are probably better to start with these. The ribs of the chicken in a chicken carcass are also small enough for a cat to eat easily. Leave some of the meat on the carcass so he is getting some meat as well.
I buy a tray of chicken hearts from the supermarket.......but I live in Australia and I don't know how they sell them in other parts of the world. Or you can buy beef heart from the butcher. Either is absolutely fine. The chicken hearts have more taurine in them than the beef hearts. I freeze the chicken hearts and the beef heart (cut up into smaller pieces) and get out of the freezer as needed.
Heart is considered a muscle meat, not an organ meat, so is part of the 80% meat part.

 

[MrsCLyn]

Wow...

So can I get some chicken wings and initially add one or two to their daily meals to let them get used to really raw meats? Just put a wing in a bowl?

Maybe a turkey thigh with bones?

I would give them the canned food as a primary meals for now until they start eating the wings or thighs. I did read that supermarket meats can have too much bacteria but someone said washing them first would be good. I currently haven't found a local butcher that sells fresh cutss

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Wow...

So can I get some chicken wings and initially add one or two to their daily meals to let them get used to really raw meats? Just put a wing in a bowl?

Maybe a turkey thigh with bones?

I would give them the canned food as a primary meals for now until they start eating the wings or thighs. I did read that supermarket meats can have too much bacteria but someone said washing them first would be good. I currently haven't found a local butcher that sells fresh cutss

Yes that is a good way to start off giving them a wing or neck. Cut the wing in three though and only give one of the two smaller portions first as the bones are smaller.
The turkey thigh bone would be too big for a cat to eat I think. I give Harry turkey wings and those bones are pretty thick. He occasionally eats part of it but he has been eating bones since he was a kitten and his jaw is strong.
You can give up to about 20% raw food with canned food without having to worry about supplements. Any more and you need to start thinking about adding supplements.

You could also try them with bits of other meats such as beef, lamb or pork. A variety gives them access to all the different vitamins and minerals they need.

With the supermarket meats and bacteria I think they might have been referring to ground meats.. but it is fine to wash it first if you prefer.

 

[MrsCLyn]

THANK YOU!!

That will be a much easier first step. I'll start with a few small wings and see how it goes.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

@MrsCLyn
I would not give a bone every day. That would be too much, especially if you are still feeding a canned diet. Three times a week would probably be best, otherwise they will be getting too much calcium.
The bones have the added benefit of being a great teeth cleaner. Harry has beautiful clean white teeth.

 

[MrsCLyn]

Thank you. I'm going to grab about 3 wings to test out on my two cats. I'll break them up in 3 pieces and see if they have interest.

At this moment they seem more interested in cooked chicken than raw but perhaps they'll enjoy. Sigh...