Newbie here...stressing out

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scissorchik

scissorchik

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Hi everyone. My 9 year old orange tabby Basil was just diagnosed with feline diabetes yesterday. Him an his brother always ate dry food, free range, and I have now had to switch to wet food, 2 feedings a day, 12 hours apart.

He takes a very small dose of Lantis, and he is eating Hills MD. I separate the two cats, and give Bas his diet, and Monkey gets some fancy feast at the same time. I also give Bas his shot while he's eating, and distracted. The vet said to only do the 2 feedings a day for now, and she will show me how to do the curve on Friday.

How long should I give Bas for his feeding? 15 minutes? Half an hour? I gave him 20 and when I checked in with him he had only eaten about 1/2 of his serving, and wouldn't touch the rest. I guess what bothers me is knowing if he has enough food in his system for the insulin to work, especially since he doesn't eat til 7pm tonight.

I'm going to check with the vet's office, but i figured with the wealth of knowledge gathered here, someone might be able to advise me.

Thanks,

Leanne
 
We advocate small frequent meals to support the pancreas. Some vets agree, some want set meals. We have used this same general protocol for years- wet lo carb(btw,we would feed them both FF) in small meals with insulin doses determined by home testing and thousands of cats have been regulated or in remission.

I would start testing today so you can see what is happening and whether your dose is safe to give at shot time. We do our own curves at home. Stress raises bg levels in most cats, and most cats are stressed at the vet.
 
Welcome to the best site on the planet . It IS very stressful in the begining but not undoable. I havent had a diabetic kitty in a long time so, I will leave the suggestions and advice to more experiences eyes. I just wanted to welcome you and bump up your thread. ;-)

jeanne
 
Many (most) cats hate the taste of Hills MD. You can feed Fancy Feast Classic varieties, which
are low carb, readily available, and better quality ingredients than prescription food.

Basil eats a little then walks away because that stuff tastes awful. You can return un-opened cans
to your for a refund. Just say your cat won't eat it.


Fancy Feast
Tender Beer & Chicken Feast Classic
Tender Beef & Liver Feast Classic
Savory Salmon Feast Classic
Chopped Grill Feast Classic
Chicken Feast Classic
Turkey & Giblets Feast Classic
Other 'fish' flavors Classic

Don't feed fish more than a couple of times per week. It's high in phosphorous
(bad for kidneys) and has contains heavy metals like mercury.
 
Yep, skip the MD and get some regular Fancy Feast, Friskies, or even 9-Lives. Any of that will probably taste better to your cat (tho it may smell awful to you!).

We feed only twice a day--when we switched from dry to wet, we just kept the same feeding times. It worked for us in getting Max OTJ, but I know lots of others around here have had better success with smaller, more frequent meals throughout the day. I put the food out in the morning and in the evening (exactly 12hrs apart when we were doing shots), and usually my cats wolf it down all at once. If they don't, I leave it out, and they usually finish it off within an hour or two.

We feed Friskies--either Liver and Chicken dinner or Turkey & Giblets. Both are the classic pate style, but I kinda chunk it up and then add water to the bowl for 'gravy'. LOL. My boys usually slurp up the water right away, then eat the food. I stick with those two flavors because the carb count is the same--I found with Max that if I switched up the carb levels too much, even by just 2%, it would upset his stomach and he'd puke. And cleaning up canned cat food puke, right after they ate, well, it's just nasty. I suspect, tho I'll never know, that if I'd figured that out earlier in the insulin game, we may have gotten him OTJ sooner...but that's just conjecture.
 
OTJ means Off The Juice - ---- diet controlled with NO injected insulin -

My cats are grazers -- nibbling a little food whenever they want it.

The two set meals are kind of 'old school' -- to make sure your cat comes at meal / shot time. And also some of the older insulins required a full belly of food or they could kick in and cause Hypoglycemia.

Lantus is a nice gentle insulin, so small meals at different times are ok.

One caution on the food -avoid GRAVY and aim for Grain Free. Janet & Binky's Food Charts (google it) contain a ton of info on many cat foods -- choose flavors with less than 10% carbs.

I just noticed a few days ago the Merricks added a "Low Glycemic" note on the cans of their low carb canned foods. Hurray!! Makes it easier on us choosing the right food for diabetics.
 
Bandit is diet-controlled on Fancy Feast (I alternate a bunch of flavors--Chicken and Liver Classic, Beef Classic, Chicken and Beef Classic, Turkey and Giblets, and Salmon). Definitely ditch the MD. The ingredients are awful and many cats won't eat it.

I used to feed Bandit twice a day, but I upped it four when he was diagnosed so that he was eating at both shot times and when his insulin peaked. It worked well so I kept it that way after he went into remission. He has a problem with overeating (He'll eat 'til he pukes) so I can't leave food out for him to graze.

If your cats aren't bad overeaters like my cat, you can leave food out for them by mixing some water with it to keep it moist, or freezing it and letting it slowly thaw. Most cats will finish it before it dries out anyway, though.
 
Just wondering who are the "we" you are referring to? I do not think there is an overwhelming consensus on this board about frequent feeding vice twice daily feeding. I think twice daily feeding is fine and follow that.

Sue and Oliver said:
We advocate small frequent meals to support the pancreas. Some vets agree, some want set meals. We have used this same general protocol for years- wet lo carb(btw,we would feed them both FF) in small meals with insulin doses determined by home testing and thousands of cats have been regulated or in remission.

I would start testing today so you can see what is happening and whether your dose is safe to give at shot time. We do our own curves at home. Stress raises bg levels in most cats, and most cats are stressed at the vet.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks guys. Its been a crazy day and I appreciate your advice and kind words.

I know alot of you have more than one cat-how do you keep your diabetic cat eating only his serving and not the others? I have separated them, putting Basil in the bathroom with his food and water, and letting Monkey eat his in the kitchen. Up until yesterday, Monkey ate fancy feast like no tomorrow(he only got it as an occasional treat). Today he's turned his nose up at it at both feedings. I tried warming it up, adding a little 'juice' from a new can...but nothing.

Basil ate about 3/4 of his serving this time, which made me feel a bit better. I thought separating them would give me the chance to give Bas his shot without having to deflect Monkey as he noses in and tries to eat Bas's food. (but if its like you all said, maybe he won't even like the taste of the hills md)

Is the amount that Basil eats a direct corelation to the amount of insulin he gets? He only gets .05 per shot, barely any, and yet the 1/2 can of hills is more than a whole can of fancy feast. If I switch him to fancy feast does he get the whole can? This may sound redundant, but if he doesn't eat the whole serving, how can I leave it out for him to graze on, when his brother will probably eat it? Or if his brother doesn't eat all of his, what happens if Basil eats Monkey's share on top of his own?

I am going to take Monkeys food out again and try leaving it down for him, but in front of where I am sitting, so Basil can't start munching on it. Bas has spent alot of the day sleeping and cleaning himself, and I don't think he really cares what his brother is doing.(especially since he just ate his dinner and is full)

I will call the vet tomorrow and tell them that Bas won't eat their food and that I have been told he can eat what you all wrote. It would be so much easier financially and stress wise if I could smoothly transition them to eating something they are both familiar with.

Thansk again-you have no idea how much your advice means.
 
Just wanted to say hello and welcome. My cat Max was diagnosed in January and I was right where you are now. I'm sure you're already figuring out that you've come to the best place for help with your diabetic cat. I knew next to nothing at first and was overwhelmed and stressed. This forum and following the great advice/protocol really helped me turn Max's health around. I agree with the other posts that you should consider ditching the M/D, especially if Basil won't eat it. There are other less expensive low carb options available. My vet recommended the dry version of M/D, which is a little higher in carbs, but Max really turned a corner when I got him completely off of dry and onto low carb wet. He eats Fancy Feast Classic. Let us know if you have questions when you're ready to start home testing your kitty's blood sugar (just take things a step at time). With home testing, you know what Basil's blood sugar is and can adjust the insulin dose if needed.
 
As far as feeding goes, I free feed ... and that is probably what has kept Spitzer alive, as his initial insulin dose was too high and he had to eat to keep up with it and not go into hypoglycemia. I'll note that 2 of my 10 civvies lost significant weight when we switched to low carb canned food.

I found that if I sit down with the cats when I put out fresh food about every 12 hours, Spitzer eats more, plus I can block younger cats from bothering a couple of the seniors while they eat. Maybe that would be helpful.

Several folks have found timed feeders helpful in making modest portions of food available through the day, and have frozen some of it to help it stay fresh during the 12 hour period.

ECID - Each cat is different - so you have to find what works for you and your cats together.
 
scissorchik said:
I know alot of you have more than one cat-how do you keep your diabetic cat eating only his serving and not the others?
Click to expand...

Bandit is a kitty vacuum cleaner, while my other cat Gabby was a dainty eater. It took much longer for Gabby to finish eating than Bandit, and she hardly ever finished all of her food in one sitting. Bandit would immediately come over and try and scarf her food up, too. So I would put both their dishes down at opposite ends of the kitchen (I have a small kitchen), and stand in between them. When Bandit finished, I stood there with a water bottle and if he tried to steal her food he got a squirt. When Gabby finished what she was going to, I added a little water to the rest of her food to keep it from drying out, and placed it out of reach for both cats. Then, I would wait an hour and give her the rest and she would finish it. Towards the end of her life (she had a large stomach tumor) she ate very slowly, so I would just keep bringing the food back to her every half hour or so until she finished.

When I couldn't be there to police them, I put her in the bottom half of the house and Bandit in top (there's a door separating the 1st from the 2nd floor of my apartment, and I have litter boxes on both floors) and set autofeeders with frozen portions.

scissorchik said:
the 1/2 can of hills is more than a whole can of fancy feast.
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The M/D comes in a 5.5 oz can I believe? Half of a 5.5 oz can is about the same as a whole can of Fancy Feast.
 
i have a 14lb cat (diabetic) and a 7lb cat (not diabetic.) I feed the big boy 1 can of fancy feast classic at 7am and 7pm (pre-shot, then i give him his shot while he eats) and 1/2 can of same food at 10am and 10pm. so he gets 3 cans a day - but his weight is stable, so it must be ok. the reason for that schedule is so that most of his food is in his system when the insulin is going to be most active.

my 7lb kitter eats 1/2 can at each of those same times. i put the little one in the laundry room and the big boy outside the laundry room door. when everyone is done eating, i pick up punkin's bowl, let him finish the 7lb'ers bowl and open the door.

i would make sure your cat is eating enough to maintain his weight. i think you don't want him losing weight while you're trying to figure out all the diabetic stuff.

even before i had a diabetic cat my cats always seemed to need different food (the big guy had bladder infections, the little one had intestinal issues) although now i think if i'd just fed all of my cats canned food they'd have been fine. they are both thriving on the fancy feast now. btw, there are differences in the carbs in the different varieties, so you do want to look at the Janet & Binky's list and find foods that are lower carbs.
 
Thanks again everyone for the advice.

I got through today without crying! YAY!

I decided to follow your advice, and to put both cats on fancy feast. The funny thing is Monkey, the non-diabetic seems to think something is 'up'. When I put his plate of food down and feed his brother he walks towards the plate, then turns, looks and steps away from it as if to say 'is this a test or something?' I wentt o a special pet food store and picked up the flavors that were mentioned as well as a merrick one that the shop owner suggested. I'll work through the fancy feast and see which flavors are a hit and which aren't.

I have put both cats back in the same room to eat-seems to be less stressful on the little guy. While I gave Basil his full can, I gave Monkey a can as well, but he only ate about half of it, which is the serving size he's used to getting. Will he eventually eat a whole can once he catches on that he's only getting 2 meals a day?

Basil ate a little more than 3/4 of his can, and is doing well. I have noticed he is not lunging for the bathroom whenever you turn on the water anymore, and is quite content to laze around and sleep. He seems much happier too. He still has alot of neuropathy in his back legs though. Is this reversible?

I will be returning the vet food on Friday and am planning on asking the vet to show me how to test Bas at home. For those of you who no longer have to administer insulin, do you still have to test daily? Just curious.

Better get to bed. I always swore I would never let my cats get me into a routine where they call the shots and would demand to get fed wet food first thing in the morning. Today I realized why, and cursed the diabetes gods! My younger cat Monkey thought that 3am would be a good time to get up, and began chirping and prancing around the room. Then when I stuck earplugs in to drown him out, he jumped up from the bed and flicked the lightswitch on - at 5:13! Then he decided jumping all over me and the bed would do the trick. regardless of when he gets me up, breakfast is at 7am. Any suggestions on how to train a crazy, persistant little brat who thinks the world revolves around him? Basil and I are trying to eek out a few more minutes of sleep and peace and quiet, and monkey may as well have a set of cymbals and be walking across the room banging them!

oh yeah-I forgot I wanted to ad this: I am a hairstylist and own my salon. Most days I am there at 9am, and its at the other end of town, so the 2 feedings daily works great, but if i had to test and/or give him more servings of food throughout the day, that might get tricky. How do you all do it?

thanks again!~
 
To feed during the day, you can freeze the food(FF fits perfectly into cupcake pans) and let it thaw during the day. To stop the early am noise, lots of us have automatic feeders. I use the PetSafe5.

Regulation will help the neuropathy as will MenthylB12. (Edited I meant methylB12) You can get it at health food stores.

A day without crying is always good!
 
woot! you're doing great.

no ideas on the Monkey (sounds like a perfect name, though) - i shut my cats elsewhere during the night. poor kitties, but it keeps my husband happy.
 
The use of timer feeders is great! You can give 4 meals a day with the timer feeder helping you when you are not at home or even during the night. I just think cats get up around 3 am regardless of what you do. Maybe a midnight meal will help.

We test my OTG kitty once a week. He was on the juice for about 6 weeks before going into remission. i tested often when he had just gotten off insulin. Once off the juice for 4-5 weeks, I think I tested every other day, then eventually moved to once a week. I think I will stay at once a week so that i can catch changes more quickly and be able to make adjustments if needed. I just bought some testing strips for my cat with urinary problems so i will test his urine once a week too. Might as well have both on a weekly check.

If you changed the food they may poop and vomit until their stomachs adjust. The vet told me to get probiotics to add to the food during the change. She said it helped their tummies. It really helped me. Poop and vomit from 4 cats was bad. Probiotics helped. I think it took about a week before everyone was regulated. I still add it to their food now because it is good for them.

Be careful with the insulin during a food change. I think that my cat is one whose diabetes is controlled with diet. Once we got him off the dry food and on canned, his BG level lowered a lot and eventually he did not need insulin. But with the food lowering his BG and the "shed" being filled with insulin, he had a seizure because i was not monitoring the BG at home and did not know it went that low. Glad to hear that you give a small dose. At the time of the seizure, my cat was getting 4 units twice a day. That had quickly filled the body's shed. After the seizure, he did not need insulin for long. I think the change in the food was the best thing for him (and the others I have).

Be sure to get the information on hypos from this website so that you are ready for a hypo in the event it happens. I had karo syrup ready along with a high carb food as they suggested. So when he had the seizure, i was able to give him some Karo syrup with a liquid medicine dispenser and follow it with a high carb, gravy food so that I could get him to the emergency vet as soon as possible. I took the Karo syrup with me in the car on the way to the vet. This website is great. Without them and getting ready for hypo events, my cat would have died. He is doing great now!
 
I test Bandit once or twice a week, or if I think he's acting unusual (e.g. drinking out of his water dish, since he never drinks).

I think Monkey might catch on and eat more, but more likely that's the portion size he wants. I would split his food up into 3 or four meals. I take it you're feeding at 7am/7pm? If that schedule works for Basil keep him on it, but if Monkey isn't eating all his food (and he's obviously hungry to turn on the lights for you! :-) then maybe do a half can at 7am/7pm, see if he'll eat the other half right before you leave for work, and do a half right before bed. If he won't eat that second half at 8/830am, then you could try doing 3/4 at 7am, 3/4 at 7pm, and 1/2 can before bed and see if he eats it that way.

With Bandit, I would leave for work at 7am, and not get home until 7pm. I would test/shoot/feed at 7am, test/shoot/feed at 7pm, and then test him again at 10pm/1am and go to bed. If I needed more numbers, I would set my alarm to wake me up during the night, test and go back to bed. However, usually the one or two numbers before bed were enough during the week, and I would do my curves on the weekend when I had days off.
 
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