Newbie Help...and Hello!

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Annie in Chicago

Annie in Chicago

Member Since 2018
Hello All! I am brand new so please let me know if I should be posting this elsewhere.

Gideon was diagnosed about 2 weeks ago and has been on insulin for 1.5 weeks. He gets 1 unit of Prozinc. I am still in early stages of figuring out feeding schedule to coincide with shots every 12 hours, etc. - you all know. I give him his shots while he is eating. My question is, if he refuses to eat dinner, should I skip his shot? This is honestly the last question I ever thought I'd have to ask because he is an EATER. But not tonight for some reason and my vet is closed so I can't call.

We had our 1 week checkup a few days ago and he had already lost weight (he is a fatty). We are going back every week for now to make sure his dose doesn't need to be adjusted as he loses weight. They told me Saturday that if he seemed like he was getting too much insulin - lethargic, staring off, etc, to skip a dose.

It's now been just over 12 hours since this morning's dose and I'm not sure what to do - skip? Wait until he finally eats and give him shot no matter when? Any expertise appreciated!

Sorry for the rude introduction - I'll get something more formal up soon.
 
Hi Annie, and welcome! This is a fine place to be posting for an introduction. Usually for dosing advice you would post in the forum for your insulin - in this case Prozinc, but for now, dont' worry about it - you can post in there for your next thread :). Can you tell me anything about the numbers he's been getting at the vet? And any chance you have a blood glucose meter at home?
 
Also, if Gideon isn't eating, could you try giving him some treats and let me know if he'll eat those?
 
Hi Sam!

Thanks so much for replying to my first freakout.

He was 181 on Saturday at his checkup. I believe the week before (the day before starting Prozinc) he was around 380.

I do have a meter but haven't tried it yet as I have been trying to get everything else down.

Yes, he ate treats right up. I've put down about 7 different kinds of wet and he has sniffed and licked at most of them. He's seriously messing with me - this is unprecedented. Is a handful of Greenies enough to dose him?
 
If you're feeling brave, this would be a good time to try your first glucose test. Greenies will cause his BG (blood glucose) to spike as they are pretty high in carbs. If he's eating treats with enthusiasm, we know he isn't too sick.
 
Do you have any parmesan cheese, nutritional yeast, tuna in water, or lunch meat? If so, you can try putting those on his food to entice him to eat. He only needs to eat about a tablespoon of food for you to give a dose, however, I'm a little concerned about the 181 and would be more comfortable giving an amount to dose if you could get a BG test and let me know where he's at.
 
How do you feel about trying a test? I can post a link to a couple of videos that show people doing the tests so you can see how it's done.
 
He ate a little Stella & Chewys and a nibble of something else. I also gave him a little of his forbidden dry food, which he hasn't had in 2 weeks, so I dosed him. In the course of following him around trying to wipe blood from his ears he also stopped at a bowl of Fancy Feast and ate a little of that. But I think I successfully did my first test! It was 105. Should I try to get him to eat more? The vet said if he gets to 80-90 then that's not great. Have I harmed
him? I have directions to the emergency vet in my phone...
 
Well, first of all, congratulations on your first test. Second, you're about to get some more practice in.

In the beginning, you generally don't want to give insulin if they are under 200. 105 is actually a super healthy number and didn't need insulin. Don't panic though. I'm going to walk you through this and we'll make sure he stays safe. I'm going to take a minute to type, so don't go too far. I promise he'll be fine, there are just a few things you're going to need to do tonight.
 
Annie in Chicago said:
He ate a little Stella & Chewys and a nibble of something else. I also gave him a little of his forbidden dry food, which he hasn't had in 2 weeks, so I dosed him. In the course of following him around trying to wipe blood from his ears he also stopped at a bowl of Fancy Feast and ate a little of that. But I think I successfully did my first test! It was 105. Should I try to get him to eat more? The vet said if he gets to 80-90 then that's not great. Have I harmed
him? I have directions to the emergency vet in my phone...
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how long after the shot was the 105?
 
Okay, you have some high carb food on hand since you've given him Greenies and dry food already. My hunch is that those will cause his numbers to rise and he'll be okay. Do NOT give him any more of the high carb stuff right now. You're going to want him to be hungry enough to eat as the night goes on.

You're going to need to test him again in two hours. I'm guessing from your username that you're in Chicago which means it's around 8:30 right now, is that right? Are you okay staying up two more hours? If not, then I'd suggest that you take a nap and set an alarm. In two hours, if he's higher than 105, you'll be able to sleep a little more. If he's lower than 105, then you're going to need to start using little bits of food to keep his BG above 50. As long as he's above 50 you don't need to worry.

Usually with Prozinc, the number you get right before the shot is the highest number, then the BG goes down and down until sometime 4-7 hours after the shot was given. So you're going to need to keep an eye on him until we know how low he's going tonight. How are you at staying up? do you have to work tomorrow?
 
105 was about 10-15 minutes after the shot. My vet said below 150 is good but below 90 not so much. I am good with staying up. And I had my numbers wrong before - he must have been 121 on Saturday because they said below 150 was good and I was happy that he fell into that (I thought they would have included that info in his take home papers...). That number on Saturday was 6.5 hours after his morning shot, if that helps.
 
Okay, 121 at +6.5 is making me feel a little better about tonight. What type of meter are you using? An AlphaTrak or a human meter, or something else?
 
What a handsome boy! Okay, then I'm going to change one thing I said earlier. I said anything above 50 was safe, but that's on a human meter. on an AlphaTrak, you need to keep him above 68.
 
You are in excellent hands with Djamila, Annie!

How did Gideon take to the testing? My cat did not like it much at all at first, and so we wrap her up in a big towel like a burrito so that just her head is out. A determined attitude also helps ( even if you’re only acting!) :)
 
68. Got it!

Testing involved a lot of squirming! As my vet said, "he seems pretty compliant..." We just need to figure out what we're comfortable with. The hardest part (besides trying not to poke either of our eyes out) was getting the meter to register - I had about 8 bloodsoaked strips (from 2 pricks) before I finally got it to read some from the floor. I'm also in the process of training him on an asthma inhaler (which is how diabetes was discovered - I brought him in for a cough and hit the jackpot) so we're used to a lot of squirming around here.

That's all perfectly normal, right? LOL
 
Oh, no! But it's probably a really good thing that you caught the diabetes so early, so that is definitely a silver lining.

I am no expert on dosing, but I am very good at getting a squirmy cat to hold still for ear tests! (Josie is not so sweetly compliant as Janet's C.C.) I wrote the below on a different thread. I'm just thinking that if you need to test a lot tonight, compliance will be very important, and I well remember the first time I felt like I absolutely HAD to get a test and not being sure I could do it, so maybe this will be helpful:
For testing, if this is helpful: To get her to hold still and take her claws out of play, we use two towels, a hand towel and a big one. I lay out the big towel to sit her on. Then I drape the hand towel around her neck like a bib and hold it closed behind her neck. Then I wrap her up in the big towel like a burrito, and then we test with just her head sticking out. Just a very slight pressure on the small towel as I’m starting to wrap the big towel, and she lies right down. At first, I would kneel over her so that I could keep her from wriggling out backward with my feet, but now I just sit beside her. And it’s absolutely true that the ears start bleeding much much easier in just a few days, so it gets easier in lots of ways.​
 
Sorry I disappeared for a little while. Getting a plumbing issue fixed today and it took for.ev.er. the Plumber just left, and I still don't have water. Ugh.

Anyway...great job getting the spreadsheet up!!! A quick tutorial: AMPS and PMPS are AM and PM Pre-Shot. That's where you put the BG number that you got right before you give an injection. Go ahead and put the 105 in PMPS for tonight, even though it was technically a few minutes after the injection. The +1, +2, +3, etc. are how many hours after the injection. Since we're all in different time zones, we don't say that you are testing again at 10:30pm, we say you are testing at +2. That way it doesn't matter where in the world someone is, they can understand what's going on.

Fingers crossed the second test is a little easier! Make sure you insert the test strip into the meter before you poke so it's ready to suck up the blood. And if need be, just scoop as much blood as you can onto your fingernail and go from there. That trick never works for me, but lots of other folks swear by it. I must have funny shaped fingernails ;)
 
Annie in Chicago said:
Okay, I've just retested Gideon and he is 290. Is that...good?
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Well, not exactly good, but at least it means you'll get some sleep tonight! And that, my friend, is why high carb foods and diabetes don't mix. ;) A healthy, non-diabetic cat will be between 68-150, with most numbers under 100. So 290 is pretty high, but it does mean I'm not going to make you stay up all night testing, which is what would have happened if he was lower than his PMPS right now. So give him some chin scratches, leave out some food, and have a nice sleep.

In the morning, click on the Prozinc section of the forum and say hi. We'll help you get all of this figured out so Gideon will be safe and healthy!

In the morning, if by chance he's under 200, skip the shot. If he's over 200, go ahead and give him one unit again. And if you're not sure, post in Prozinc and someone will likely chime in.
 
It was a good two weeks after diagnosis until I could reliably test Rocky. I'd say your initiation is going rather well

Keep in mind that as your cat becomes regulated, his appetite won't be the same as it was when he was untreated. It will go back to "normal" even if it won't seem normal compared to what it was before diagnosis. This is a GOOD sign as it means his body is finally getting the nutrients from his food that he sorely needs
 
Thank you, I think we are definitely going through an adjustment phase. He's had a lot changes very quickly and has dealt with them like a rock star. I think this is probably normal. Trying to balance common sense while adhering to all these new rules. I just have to keep reminding myself that these are the changes we want, and everything will even out with time.
 
Annie in Chicago said:
Trying to balance common sense while adhering to all these new rules. I just have to keep reminding myself that these are the changes we want, and everything will even out with time.
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Yes, it gets a little crazy at first, trying to learn everything - and the routine can feel pretty confining in the first few weeks. You're absolutely right though that it gets better. And once you figure out his patterns and responses, things will relax and be more predictable so it won't all feel so difficult. Great job on the testing today!

I don't know if this matters for you at all, but most of us use human meters for testing instead of the Alpha Trak. On a human meter, test strips can be around 25-30 cents each, instead of nearly a dollar each. Also, I don't know what you're feeding him right now, but there are inexpensive foods that are still good for our sugar cats, and any of us would be happy to give recommendations. If your vet tries to sell you the "special" diabetic foods, just know that those are unnecessary and actually worse for them than many other foods that are readily available.
 
Thanks, the food has been the biggest change for both of us (and his brother who has unwittingly gotten wrapped up in all of this). I admit I used to be a total food snob but he is now on Fancy Feast and we are trying various other things. I'm not exaggerating say when I am at a pet store at least four times a week, armed with my printout from the cat carb chart - I have things he can/will eat highlighted with notes all over the place about what might seem good but in fact contains fish, to which he is allergic (why does everything contain fish???). And his brother is super finicky so...we're working on it. As for the meter, I did research that but honestly, I could not even begin to think of converting numbers from human to cat...I just wanted to start out as simple as possible. And I am hoping to not be testing him constantly.
 
Lol...they can definitely be picky little critters! I'm a big fan of raw - I think you mentioned S&C in an earlier post. Primal has some great options, and I don't think they have fish in most of their recipes (double check that though). Vital Essentials is fairly new on the market with a raw food that my guys are devouring. And if you want to be really food-snobby, you can fairly easily make their food at home. ;)
 
Someone over in Prozinc was feeding Ziwi, but I'm afraid I don't remember who. A few years back when I wrote to the company it was too high in carbs, but they were in the process of changing their recipe and I believe they have significantly lowered the carb %. They responded quickly when I wrote, so I'm sure you could find out pretty easily. It does still count as dry food in terms of water content though - it's too low in moisture to be good for them - not as far as diabetes, but the impact on other aspects of their health (urinary, constipation, kidneys, etc.). It would be fine as a treat or occasional snack though. Or to put on top of other food to entice them to eat.

S&C was way too high in carbs a few years ago. It's what brought Sam out of remission. I believe they have also changed their recipe since then, but I would write to the company and confirm. They were NOT helpful in terms of providing their nutrition info, but when they finally sent it to me it was horrifying. Again though, I believe I've read it's better now, but I'd check before feeding it for too long.
 
Fortiflora isn't great as a probiotic but it's amazing as a flavor enhancer. I have often joked that Sam would eat a shoe if I sprinkled that stuff on it. My civvie doesn't actually like it, but Sam is crazy for it!
 
Two dumb questions:

1. Do I need an Rx for fortiflora?
2. What does 'civvie' mean? My guess is 'civilian,' as in non-diabetic? Feel free to mock :)
 
Annie in Chicago said:
Two dumb questions:

1. Do I need an Rx for fortiflora?
2. What does 'civvie' mean? My guess is 'civilian,' as in non-diabetic? Feel free to mock :)
Click to expand...
1. No. You can get it on amazon or adwdiabetes.com it’s not a medicine, it’s a probiotic and flavor enhancer

2. Yep, you guessed it
 
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