New year, New lifestyle

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Zusa

Zusa

Member Since 2024
Hello all!

Today I got confirmation that my beautiful orange tabby is diabetic. He is 13.5 a old neutered male and has been my constant companion through many changes. I've had him since he was the size of my forearm and to hear we have to make some changes in his life is hitting me like a brick wall.

I am overwhelmed and exhausted between researching on Google and going back and forth with my husband about Buddy's care (we are both concerned because neither of us have dealt with this issue before). I came across this forum in hopes of support and guidance on what to expect.

First off I'd like to know about insulin. I saw they put him on ProZinc which is supposed to be better than Vetsulin. But I'm seeing some posts about pets being on Lantus. Does it matter which one he's on (ProZinc or Lantus), are there any generics to these and what are the cheapest places I can go to get his insulin? Currently, Buddy does not have any insulin (other than what they supplied us with since they're waiting for some vials to come in tomorrow) but I plan to secure his insulin ASAP. I'd also like to know; how much does a vial last for you? How much can you buy at once? I'm trying to determine this because it looks like my work schedule will be inconsistent for the next 6 months and I want to make sure we are prepared and covered for his care.

What kind of glucose meters are recommended? My vet's office suggested staying away from human-grade readers because you won't get as accurate of a reading like you would with an animal-grade one (such as AlphaTrak). I've read there are different codes to use for AlphaTrak and that the strips are expensive but I've read some people have used Lyfestyle. What do you use and what has worked for you? Do you know if it's possible to get a reader secondhand?

And lastly, does anyone have any dry or wet food recommendations? I want to stay away from prescription food as much as possible. Mostly because I'm worried about supply/stock issues and my boy can be a little bit of a picky eater. I read diabetic cats should be on a high protein/low carb diet, but that there might be some information that contradicts this. The vet office originally recommended Hill's Science Diet but I know from past experience Buddy would rather waste away than eat HSD.

We're heading into unknown territory here and I want to make sure all his needs are met. I'm so sorry for the long post. I'm overwhelmed at the news of this but I know it doesn't mean the end of the world. :)
 
Welcome to FDMB!!

You have found a wonderful community of feline diabetes caregivers. This message board has been around for over 25 years and can provide you with a great deal of support. First, the beginning stage of this journey is overwhelming. There is a huge volume of information to assimilate so please, don't think you need to memorize everything all at once! There are typically members here who are around 24/7 as our members are from all over the world.

Both Lantus and Prozinc are very good insulins for treating feline diabetes. They are the two insulins recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn. Lantus (or it's generic/biosimilar, glargine) is a human insulin and is widely available. Once the biosimilar became available, the price has become far more reasonable. Prior to that time, many people here purchased their insulin from Canada. It's available in a pen form or vial. Many people purchase a box of pens. (We don't use the needle tips that go with the pens, though.) Prozinc is a pet insulin and is available from your vet or from Chewy's. There are other online pet pharmacy resources. If you are going to use Prozinc, this is a link to our forum on Prozinc. I'd encourage you to read over the sticky notes at the top of the board to familiarize yourself with the insulin, dosing, etc. I suspect that more people here use Lantus/glargine because you can go into any pharmacy and purchase it. In a worse case scenario, if you drop a vial of Prozinc and it's a holiday or weekend, you have to wait for your vet's office to open or see if you can get the insulin overnight shipped to you. I would Google prices. The price for Prozinc from Chewy's will be the same no matter where you're located. It costs about $120 for a vial. Otherwise, there may be local variations in price. I wouldn't suggest pricing Lantus. The name brand is horribly expensive. How long the vial lasts is dependent on how large a dose your cat needs. I used the Lantus pens which contain 3 mL (vs a vial which contains 10 mL). I would use one pen every 2.5 - 3 months which should give you an idea about how often you will need to buy insulin.

We tend to recommend a human meter. The difference in cost between a human meter and an AlphaTrack are appreciable. The strips for an AT meter run about $1.00 each. The cost for a strip for a Walmart Relion meter are about $0.17. You will need to test a minimum of 4 times/day. Testing for a week with an AT is $28.00 vs less than $5.00. The cost for strips mounts up very quickly. I suspect that most vets don't realize the difference in the cost. The explanation that the vet's office gave you doesn't really hold up. Most vets used human meters until the makers of animal meters started visiting their offices!! In addition, now that there are continuous glucose monitors (e.g., Freestyle Libre) vets have been recommended them since they sell the sensors. These are human monitors. Human monitors have to meet rigid standards. The only difference is between human and pet meters is that they are calibrated differently. All of our dosing methods have been based on human meters.

There is lots of great information on food. This is a website, written by a vet, that discusses feline nutrition. The author of the website, Lisa Pierson, DVM also has a food chart on the site that lists out nutritional information for most of the canned cat foods available in the US. If Buddy is picky, you will find a large number of options. Like your cat, we are not fans of the prescription foods. (I will refrain from getting on my soapbox about Rx cat food.) There are very few options for dry, low carb food -- either Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein or Young Again Zero Carb. ZiwiPeak and Stella & Chewy's make a freeze or airdrie raw food that may be acceptable to your cat.

If you are planning on joining us, we'd ask that you look over this post on helping us to help you. There are instructions for setting up your signature and a spreadsheet.. The signature contains some basic information about Buddy (date of diagnosis, insulin you're using, etc.) so we don't repeatedly ask those questions. The spreadsheet allows you to track Buddy's progress. It also allows us to likewise see how he's progressing and provide feedback.

Please let us know if you have questions or how we can help. The members here are very generous with their knowledge, time, and support.
 
Thank you so much! I had a really read complaints (and witnessed first hand) about the AT. I guess if I had to start...

Can you direct me on a crash course to using a human meter? Like what numbers to look for and explain how often to test? What threw me off when I went to the vet was how they said they wanted to test his blood sugar weekly for a few weeks, then move to monthly (and do blood/labs every 6 months). That seems a bit counter intuitive to me for a cat that was diagnosed with diabetes.

Over here I'm reading people test daily (between 1-4 times) which makes sense to me. They sent us home with prefilled syringes (2cc) to use in the morning and at night. They did tell me on the phone that Buddy's sugar was high so I imagine that's why they want him on it 2x a day.

I want to add; we started a new diet today. Prior to seeing a response I bought him Tiki Cat (orange bag; born carnivor I think?) That's high in protien (43g) and fancy feast classic patte wet food. He chowed down and took his insulin without issue.
 
Zusa said:
I want to add; we started a new diet today. Prior to seeing a response I bought him Tiki Cat (orange bag; born carnivor I think?) That's high in protien (43g)
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Welcome Zusa and Buddy
,you couldn't have found a better group to join
I Google's the dry cat food you bout and it's still to high in carbs for a diabetic kitty,
Here is what it said
What is the actual carb % of this food? Tiki Cat Born Carnivore Chicken & Herring Grain-Free Dry Cat Food has a carbohydrate content of approximately 11.4% on an as fed basis and 12.4% on a dry matter basis.
Fancy Feast Pates are fine
 
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Zusa said:
Can you direct me on a crash course to using a human meter? Like what numbers to look for and explain how often to test?
Click to expand...
The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-100
I would read all the yellow stickys that are the on
our forum on Prozinc, it will tell you when to test
I suggest using a human meter also, My Tyler has been in remission since 1-24-21 using a human meter

Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197

At least you can run into Walmart and get them
 
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Zusa said:
They did tell me on the phone that Buddy's sugar was high so I imagine that's why they want him on it 2x a day.
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Insulin is given 2 times a day every 12 hours
Do you have the U-40 syringes with the half unit markings since we adjust the doses by 0.25 units when needed
I see you had asked

Doesn't matter which one he's on (ProZinc or Lantus), are there any generics to these and what are the cheapest places I can go toget his insulin?

Both are good insulins, if you ever switch to Lantus in the future generic Lantus is very very affordable.I can tell you where to get it but since you are using Prozinc no need to discuss that now.
Just keep asking questions
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Welcome ,you couldn't have found a better group to join
I Google's the dry cat food you bout and it's still to high in carbs for a diabetic kitty,
Here is what it said
What is the actual carb % of this food? Tiki Cat Born Carnivore Chicken & Herring Grain-Free Dry Cat Food has a carbohydrate content of approximately 11.4% on an as fed basis and 12.4% on a dry matter basis.
Click to expand...
I'm actually having trouble finding carbohydrate contents on nutrition labels in general. Am I blind? Because I can never find it :oops:
 
Hello and welcome to you and your sweet orange boy.

You can find all sorts of tips and videos on testing here: Hometesting Links and Tips

It would be good to know exactly what "high blood sugar" means to the vet. Generally we don't start any higher than a 1 unit dose.

There are no carb contents on the labels - they aren't required. But some good people have done the work contacting manufacturers and figuring it out. See the link to the food chart that Sienne gave you.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome to you and your sweet orange boy.

You can find all sorts of tips and videos on testing here: Hometesting Links and Tips

It would be good to know exactly what "high blood sugar" means to the vet. Generally we don't start any higher than a 1 unit dose.

There are no carb contents on the labels - they aren't required. But some good people have done the work contacting manufacturers and figuring it out. See the link to the food chart that Sienne gave you.
Click to expand...
Thank you~ I'm still in shock over his diagnosis. I actually expected his toes (he's a polydactyl) to give me an issue first before anything else.

I want to know what's considered high as well. Unfortunately, I didn't get to ask him more about it because after our conversation he had to leave for an emergency.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-100
I would read all the yellow stickys that are the on
our forum on Prozinc, it will tell you when to test
I suggest using a human meter also, My Tyler has been in remission since 1-24-21 using a human meter

Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197

At least you can run into Walmart and get them
Click to expand...
Thank you so much, for both the links and recommendations! Watching the "recommended pet meter" act up at the office made me scratch my head over it's reliability.
 
I'm curious; does anyone know if after starting insulin what kind changes to expect with their cats?

Currently I have Buddy isolated in the house to make it easier to monitor his inputs and outputs. I noticed his liter box seemed cleaner (less urine) and he still had water left over from last night (he has a bowl that holds two cups - previously he was drinking almost two bowls worth in 8 hours!)
 
Hello Zusa! Welcome here, as Diane said, you found the right place.
When your cat will start having better blood glucose levels, he should start drinking and peeing less, so that's probably a good sign if you start seeing that already. Are you testing him?
There is a whole post about food here: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
I am also adding the link to the newest list of foods: https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
You can look on websites such as Chewy.com or the food brand too, and look at the questions. Very often people ask about carb contents, so the answer will be there. You can also contact the food company and ask them. There are also calculators to do the math yourself, such as this one: http://felinenutritioncalculators.com/carbcalorie.html you want to put the numbers shown for "as fed". If you have the "dry matter basis" values, then use this one instead: http://felinenutritioncalculators.com/dmb.html
 
We have an expression here -- "Every cat is different" (and you may see it abbreviated as ECID). I truly wish I could tell you exactly what to expect when it comes to treating your cat's diabetes. Since insulin is a hormone, it doesn't act like other medications, such as antibiotics. What your cat eats, stress, medical state, even the phase of the moon (and I'm not kidding) can have an effect on blood glucose numbers. Some cats go into remission quicky. Some cats (like mine) never go into remission. And just to complicate things further, cats do not like to be predictable. It goes against their inherent nature. Just as an example, the food your cat was in love with yesterday may be regarded as totally inedible tomorrow.

Ideally, as your cat begins to respond to insulin, his numbers will begin to stay in a lower range. You gradually increase the dose until the lowest point is the cycle, the nadir, if not the entire cycle is in the normal range. At that point, you begin a process of reducing the dose. There are guidelines for dosing on each of the insulin support group pages.

Just a small caution about the carb calculators. The nutritional information that is on the cat food cans or on various websites (the cat food company, Chewy's) are the guaranteed analysis values. They are expressed in minimum and maximum values. They will not give you a wholly accurate carb value. The only way to get an accurate percent of carbs is to get the "as fed" values for protein, fat, moisture, etc. from the manufacturer. In some cases, they will give you the carb amount and sometimes they won't.

As for testing, some of us are testaholics. I was one. If you look at Gabby's spreadsheet you'll see what I mean. I like having data. In addition, Gabby was prone to early, fast drops in her numbers. Testing meant I could keep her safe. However, how much you test is up to you. We strongly recommend that you test Buddy's blood glucose before his AM and PM shot. You want to be sure he's in sufficiently safe numbers to give insulin. We also suggest getting a minimum of one test during both the AM and PM cycles. In other words, you'll want to test at least 4 times each day. If you look at Bella's spreadsheet (see cecile & bella's post above), Cecile tests about 4 times per cycle. Bella's spreadsheet is a good example of a cat that is tightly regulated.
 
cecile & bella said:
Hello Zusa! Welcome here, as Diane said, you found the right place.
When your cat will start having better blood glucose levels, he should start drinking and peeing less, so that's probably a good sign if you start seeing that already. Are you testing him?
Click to expand...
Not yet - but we will be securing a monitor today after work :)
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
We strongly recommend that you test Buddy's blood glucose before his AM and PM shot. You want to be sure he's in sufficiently safe numbers to give insulin. We also suggest getting a minimum of one test during both the AM and PM cycles. In other words, you'll want to test at least 4 times each day. If you look at Bella's spreadsheet (see cecile & bella's post above), Cecile tests about 4 times per cycle. Bella's spreadsheet is a good example of a cat that is tightly regulated.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean about how every cat is different. This actually makes me feel more secure about how it was hard to determine what his "new normal" was when his liter box habits changed up a bit. We actually thought he had dementia for a bit

If you don't mind me asking how far out did you space the testing? I will definitely have time testing him in the morning and in the evening. Currently his feeding time is 5:30 am and pm (works best with our schedule and even with over time it'll stay consistent). I'm not sure how I'll accomplish testing 4x a day but I want to do 3 at least so that I can get a feel for his sugars.

Should I try; 5:30 am, 5:30 pm and 9:30 (or 10) pm?
 
tiffmaxee said:
Welcome to the LLB. Will it be impossible to get a second test during the day cycle?
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Thank you! :) With my current work schedule I don't think it's possible.

I work from 7:30am - 4:10pm M-F. Over time is... well up in the air from all the changes. It's usually half a day on a Saturday. And they don't announce it until Thursday.

unfortunately i have no relatives or friends near by that can check him again during those hours.
 
I was working full time when I was caring for Gabby. If you are planning on getting up and testing, feeding and shooting at around 5:30, think about getting an additional test as you're going out the door. Depending on what time you leave, it may give you a feel for whether Buddy's numbers are dropping. If so, a timed feeder will be your new, best friend. Also, we realize that if you can't be home, you can't test. Think about getting tests before you leave, when you come home, evenings, weekends, holidays, etc.

Gabby had an early onset and nadir. I was testing at 5:00. I was able to get a couple of tests in before I left for work. Having a timed feeder meant that there would be food available for her should her numbers drop. This post was written for Lantus users but it may provide you with some ideas on how to manage caring for your cat when you work full time.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
This post was written for Lantus users but it may provide you with some ideas on how to manage caring for your cat when you work full time.
Click to expand...
I think I understand, but I know I'll have to read it again and ask some questions.

My thoughts are... do we test at 5am, shoot, eat, and test again at 6?

Because what I initially interpreted as multiple testing was just multiple testing (I didn't fully grasp the reason) But now I think I'm understanding it as;

AM/before work: Test first, dose, eat.
Test again (an hour later?) After eating.

PM/after work; test.
PM/5pm/5:30 test, dose, eat.

PM/ Before bed; test.

Is this the pattern I should follow? Because if so, then I'll know how I can plan things out since we have a multi pet house hold.

I also know testing him will be a learning curve (we did a trial run last night; he tests well! Very tolerant) what I'd like to know is.... warming the ears. I see a sock full of rice is recommended. Are there any alternatives others have tried or suggested? My concern is having mold grow in the rice after being microwaved so many times. And lancing; I swear when I tried the lancing tool the Lance didn't go in as far as it should have. Has anyone else had that issue?
 
For warming the ears, I use a mug/cup that I fill with hot water (just regular hot tap water, doesn't need to be boiling or anything like that). Let it sit for a minute or so, so the cup gets warm, then toss the water and use the warm cup to warm the ear. Touch it to your wrist first to check that it's not too hot.

Glass and ceramic cups hold the heat for a while, plastic less so but still long enough to warm the ears if you're quick about it. I've found this to be a lot less hassle than other methods, and it's easier to use a basic household item than to go out and buy something new.

As time goes on, the ear will bleed much easier. I now only warm Angel's ear if she's just been outside, when her ears are super cold (it's winter where I live). At room temp, even if her ears feel cold to the touch, they still bleed easily now.
 
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The method that I used was to simply rub the edge of Gabby's ear between my thumb and first finger. It's really whatever works for you and your cat.

The routine you outlined seems fine. I would try to get more than 2 tests/cycle in whenever you can. You'll want to do a curve on a day that you are home. A curve is testing every 2 hours for 12 hours and it recommended that you do this weekly. It's a way to have a better idea of when insulin onset starts and where your cat's nadir (lowest point in the cycle) is. These can move around but ultimately, you'll know if your cat has an early or late nadir or tends to follow the rules, such as they are.
 
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