? NEW UPDATE Need dosing advice ASAP

sherrib

sherrib

Very Active Member
Skittles AMPS was 103. He was straving, usually I don’t feed & wait but 103 was just to low IMO. So I fed him 1/2 of a 3 oz can. He wanted more but didn’t give him any
Now at 2 hrs later he is 166.
Should I go ahead and give his insulin now and how much. His SS is updated BUT read notes. He just had 4 flares up of FLUTD in 7 days and you can clearly see by his BG when it happened & when he is on RX meds.
I give him cornsilk extract & D-Mannose supplements to help control future flares ups

AMPS- 103 (No insulin )
+2 166 (waiting for advice )
+3 156 - gave 1 1/4 U
+6 73
+8 105
PMPS-298 ( gave 1.5 U

AMPS- 222 ( 1.5 U) Jan 25,2019


EDIT—- gave 1 1/4 U ( Guesstimate using 40 U syringe )



PS... can’t do any curves for at least a month from the date of his flare up. Look at my 2018 tab in SS to see his last one which was done the last of December
 
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sherrib said:
Skittles AMPS was 103. He was straving, usually I don’t feed & wait but 103 was just to low IMO. So I fed him 1/2 of a 3 oz can. He wanted more but didn’t give him any
Now at 2 hrs later he is 166.
Should I go ahead and give his insulin now and how much. His SS is updated BUT read notes. He just had 4 flares up of FLUTD in 7 days and you can clearly see by his BG when it happened & when he is on RX meds.
I give him cornsilk extract & D-Mannose supplements to help control future flares ups

AMPS- 103 (No insulin )
+2 166 (waiting for advice )
+3 156 ( still waiting for advice )



PS... can’t do any curves for at least a month from the date of his flare up. Look at my 2018 tab in SS to see his last one which was done the last of December
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I'd wait until tonight to see where he is. You won't mess up your schedule that way.
 
Agree with Kris however I am wondering why you went from 2U yesterday AM up to 2.5U last nught without any mid day numbers to see how low he went ? Obviously that 2.5 lasted longer than usual. I’d definitely go back to 2U tonight numbers permitting and with mid day numbers over the next few days decide if you in fact need to go up. I also would recommend not making Half unit jump at once. If you look at my SS you’ll see why. Smaller increments seem to be much better
 
I will have to look at notes and see if the 2.5 is a typo

I went ahead and gave 1 1/4 ( guesstimate since I’m using a U40 ) But I wished I had waited til tonight . I decided to not go anywhere since I did give him a small dose. I tried to wait for advice. I hate when this happens since I second guess myself so much :(
 
@Lisa and little made a really good point. You've done a fair bit of dose-hopping and that can contribute to the higher/lowert PSs. Stick to one reasonable dose (maybe try 1.5 u for now?) both AM and PM. Any other issues like cystitis and so on already add to BG volatility. You don't want to make the problem worse with frequent dose changes. Also - you do need at least one middle of cycle test or before bed test. You can't assess a dose by looking only at PS.
 
Lisa and little said:
Agree with Kris however I am wondering why you went from 2U yesterday AM up to 2.5U last nught without any mid day numbers to see how low he went ? Obviously that 2.5 lasted longer than usual. I’d definitely go back to 2U tonight numbers permitting and with mid day numbers over the next few days decide if you in fact need to go up. I also would recommend not making Half unit jump at once. If you look at my SS you’ll see why. Smaller increments seem to be much better
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I noticed you feed Tiki and seafood Fancy.
I just got 8 cans of exact same Tiki and they won’t eat it. I think it’s because they are so used to pate. I also took him off seafood after his bad FLUTD flare ups because seafood supposedly causing inflamation BUT he is very carb sensitive and FF seafood is 0 or 1 carbs. I’m feeding Pro Plan urinary health Turkey & Giblets pate but it’s so expensive feeding 2 cats. I’m spending over $40 for 24 three oz cans! I can get 3 times amount of FF or Friskies so the same price! I have to keep him at the lowest carbs AND low phos.
 
Don’t beat yourself up. We’ve all been there. As Kris said you cannot judge dose change but PS numbers only. I had to learn that and it took me 3 months... maybe you can get a mid day test today? Looking at your sheet he seemed to be going well on 2U. Blues and greens. I’d love me some greens!! Hang in there and breathe!!
 
Gonna get. +5 test in today. I also just dug out my 100 U .
What’s the 1.5 level on 100 U?
 
sherrib said:
I noticed you feed Tiki and seafood Fancy.
I just got 8 cans of exact same Tiki and they won’t eat it. I think it’s because they are so used to pate. I also took him off seafood after his bad FLUTD flare ups because seafood supposedly causing inflamation BUT he is very carb sensitive and FF seafood is 0 or 1 carbs. I’m feeding Pro Plan urinary health Turkey & Giblets pate but it’s so expensive feeding 2 cats. I’m spending over $40 for 24 three oz cans! I can get 3 times amount of FF or Friskies so the same price! I have to keep him at the lowest carbs AND low phos.
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It’s 1/3 of a 3 oz can of FF seafood at 0 carbs I did it for calorie content... needed a few extra but it also helps with her wanting to eat it. I do not know anything about FLUTD but maybe someone else can comment to how that small amount would effect him. And YES IT IS EXPENSIVE! I give my other girl FF beef only at 4% carbs and just make sure Littlr doesn’t go for her food. Basically I play cop at mealtime.!! But it save some money as I only use 1 can tiki daily
 
sherrib said:
I noticed you feed Tiki and seafood Fancy.
I just got 8 cans of exact same Tiki and they won’t eat it. I think it’s because they are so used to pate. I also took him off seafood after his bad FLUTD flare ups because seafood supposedly causing inflamation BUT he is very carb sensitive and FF seafood is 0 or 1 carbs. I’m feeding Pro Plan urinary health Turkey & Giblets pate but it’s so expensive feeding 2 cats. I’m spending over $40 for 24 three oz cans! I can get 3 times amount of FF or Friskies so the same price! I have to keep him at the lowest carbs AND low phos.
Click to expand...
Finding the right food with the right carb/phos level is challenging. Carb level can definitely affect BG levels if highly carb sensitive cats but consistent insulin dosing is really important. Some people try to dose in response to the PS number but it backfires more often than not, setting the scene for lots of ups and downs. Consistency is so very important especially if a kitty is bouncy and has other issues.
 
Don’t forget to look back at his 2018 SS for Dec numbers. I do lots of mid cycles, just laying off right now. Heck, his new vet didn’t even want me test every 12 hrs! I said NO will I give insulin without testing.
She gave me a strict list of things to do to try and reduce any stress in hopes of finally getting all inflammation gone from his FLUID since he had 4 BAD flare ups in just 7 days
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Finding the right food with the right carb/phos level is challenging. Carb level can definitely affect BG levels if highly carb sensitive cats but consistent insulin dosing is really important. Some people try to dose in response to the PS number but it backfires more often than not, setting the scene for lots of ups and downs. Consistency is so very important especially if a kitty is bouncy and has other issues.
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Backfired on me 1000 times. So glad I found you guys to guide me
 
Lisa and little said:
It’s 1/3 of a 3 oz can of FF seafood at 0 carbs I did it for calorie content... needed a few extra but it also helps with her wanting to eat it. I do not know anything about FLUTD but maybe someone else can comment to how that small amount would effect him. And YES IT IS EXPENSIVE! I give my other girl FF beef only at 4% carbs and just make sure Littlr doesn’t go for her food. Basically I play cop at mealtime.!! But it save some money as I only use 1 can tiki daily
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Also... I use the large cans of TIKi and give half Am/Pm. About $1.75 a can. The small cans are way more expensive. I just have to remember to take the PM food out of the fridge an hour before so it’s not cold.
 
sherrib said:
just laying off right now.
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You still need to know how low a dose takes him so try hard to get at least one a cycle.

sherrib said:
She gave me a strict list of things to do to try and reduce any stress in hopes of finally getting all inflammation gone from his FLUID since he had 4 BAD flare ups in just 7 days
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Your vet is correct about the stress - FLUTD connection. It's huge! Yes, food *might* have an effect and fish based foods *can* have an inflammatory action in susceptible cats. Stress, though, is a bigger factor and the more things you can do to keep things calm, consistent and boringly routine the better. I've seen Teasel through many, many flares in the past and @Rachel who's also experienced has given you good advice on supplements, etc. She's also mentioned training herself to not overreact whenever she sees a flare starting in her kitty. I had to do that too. I'd see Teasel start to be uncomfortable but I tried not to hover or fret and kept an eye on whether he could pee or not (he could). I gave prazosin and bupe if I felt he needed it but mostly it ran its course. I tried not to fret about another flare down the road because they pick up on all that negative stress energy.
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
Here's the conversion chart: http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

I suggest you print it out and put it near your testing/dosing place and put the U40s away somewhere so you don't accidentally grab them by accident.
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Thank you for the link. I did have it printed & hanging on my fridge but I’m in a middle of moving. Other reason why I had to go dig for my U 100. Mine U40 have a red cap and 100 have orange but I don’t have that many left.

Moving is what’s causing so so much stress and “ caused” the FLUID to develop. Skittles is almost 13 years old and this just started. With his 1st flare up we thought he had his first UTI , but sadly it wasn’t . I wish it was though
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You still need to know how low a dose takes him so try hard to get at least one a cycle.


Your vet is correct about the stress - FLUTD connection. It's huge! Yes, food *might* have an effect and fish based foods *can* have an inflammatory action in susceptible cats. Stress, though, is a bigger factor and the more things you can do to keep things calm, consistent and boringly routine the better. I've seen Teasel through many, many flares in the past and @Rachel who's also experienced has given you good advice on supplements, etc. She's also mentioned training herself to not overreact whenever she sees a flare starting in her kitty. I had to do that too. I'd see Teasel start to be uncomfortable but I tried not to hover or fret and kept an eye on whether he could pee or not (he could). I gave prazosin and bupe if I felt he needed it but mostly it ran its course. I tried not to fret about another flare down the road because they pick up on all that negative stress energy.
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Gonna get a +5 today, or should I do +6?

You and Rachel are the only way I had gotten threw his FLUID DX. Y’all helped me so much in my other thread . I did leave a new question there today, have you seen it yet?
 
sherrib said:
Gonna get a +5 today, or should I do +6?

You and Rachel are the only way I had gotten threw his FLUID DX. Y’all helped me so much in my other thread . I did leave a new question there today, have you seen it yet?
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If you mean your question about CBD oil I can't answer it. I've never used it and it isn't available in Canada (legally) for pets or people.
 
Everyone in agreement about giving 1.5 U?

I will post his mid cycle # in this thread after I get it.

@Kris & Teasel - yes, I was talking about CBD oil. Did I tag the wrong person?

My vet doesn’t have experience w it so she can’t recommend the dosage.
 
The good thing about CBD oil is the only harm in giving too much is a sleepy kitty. You have PetReleaf right?
 
sherrib said:
Everyone in agreement about giving 1.5 U?

I will post his mid cycle # in this thread after I get it.

@Kris & Teasel - yes, I was talking about CBD oil. Did I tag the wrong person?

My vet doesn’t have experience w it so she can’t recommend the dosage.
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This is what Rachel told you in her post #64 on your thread where you put up photos of your CBD oil box:
As for the CBD, that looks like it is specifically for pets, so I'd go with the 1/2 dropper suggestion they give for cats.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
This is what Rachel told you in her post #64 on your thread where you put up photos of your CBD oil box:
As for the CBD, that looks like it is specifically for pets, so I'd go with the 1/2 dropper suggestion they give for cats.
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I was asking about the new doseage for the cornsilk & d mannose now
 
sherrib said:
Yes . Made by PetReleaf
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The PetReleaf 330 is a fairly low dosage. It’s 3.3mg per dropper full so you may find yourself up to a full dropper dose (or more) before you see a real difference, but start out with just a drop or two and work your way up.
 
SpotsMom said:
The PetReleaf 330 is a fairly low dosage. It’s 3.3mg per dropper full so you may find yourself up to a full dropper dose (or more) before you see a real difference, but start out with just a drop or two and work your way up.
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While still in the store, they asked if I had ever used it before and since I haven't they sold me 330 one. I don't understand why.

I don't know why, but I'm so confused over the dosage amount, when to give, how to give like some say in food or water only, others say rub in the ears, other say under his tongue ( No way I can do that... kinda enjoy having skin on my arms & hands LOL )
I'm a pretty smart person, so I don't know why I can't grasp this. I'm very stressed over moving, not working, no money, skittles new DX of FLUTD and I guess it's all giving me Extreme brain fog. Plz be patient with me :(
 
I put it in spots cheek. Sublingual (under the tongue) is preferred for humans but obviously not ideal for cats! I also use a plastic syringe instead of the glass dropper in case he chomps down...

Edit: Should say “try to” put it in his cheek. Usually it ends up being squirted at the back of his tongue.
 
SpotsMom said:
I put it in spots cheek. Sublingual (under the tongue) is preferred for humans but obviously not ideal for cats! I also use a plastic syringe instead of the glass dropper in case he chomps down...

Edit: Should say “try to” put it in his cheek. Usually it ends up being squirted at the back of his tongue.
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So I just stuck up 1-2 drops in the syringe and squirt that in the mouth? I will have to pry open his mouth so I will have to be very quick trying to get it in .
 
I hold spot under the chin with his chin tilted up, then wait til he naturally opens his mouth. Every cat is different and I find spot fairly easy to dose but it may take some experimentation to find what works best for skittles.
 
Are you using a pet meter or human? If pet meter I’d check again to see if he goes lower. Also as far as syringe dosing a cat orally, I have had luck placing kitty in my lap and getting the top in the side of the mouth. This usually makes them open up and you can squirt away...
 
Lisa and little said:
Are you using a pet meter or human? If pet meter I’d check again to see if he goes lower. Also as far as syringe dosing a cat orally, I have had luck placing kitty in my lap and getting the top in the side of the mouth. This usually makes them open up and you can squirt away...
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Human

Skittles is just over getting meds after having to take so much the last few weeks. But I can sneak up on he while he is sleeping and squirt meds in. I just won’t be able to control my aim doing it so fast
 
You tagged me on the other thread. It looks like you already have good answers to the CBD dosing question, so I'll just chime in with a suggestion: I put the CBD drops on a freeze dried chicken treat, and when they soak in, Sam just eats the treat. In humans it's preferred under the tongue so it absorbs regardless of food in the stomach. If the stomach is full, it slows down the absorption. It doesn't make it not work, it just works slower. So it's fine to just give it on a little bit of food or a treat for now.

Don't just squirt it on his whole plate though because then you wont' know if he actually ingested it or not, and a full meal would really slow it down, so aim for a time a couple hours away from a full meal if you can. If Skittles grazes all day, then just do your best and don't worry about it. CBD is really quite flexible, and you aren't going to hurt him as long as you don't go over the dosing on the bottle.
 
Djamila said:
You tagged me on the other thread. It looks like you already have good answers to the CBD dosing question, so I'll just chime in with a suggestion: I put the CBD drops on a freeze dried chicken treat, and when they soak in, Sam just eats the treat. In humans it's preferred under the tongue so it absorbs regardless of food in the stomach. If the stomach is full, it slows down the absorption. It doesn't make it not work, it just works slower. So it's fine to just give it on a little bit of food or a treat for now.

Don't just squirt it on his whole plate though because then you wont' know if he actually ingested it or not, and a full meal would really slow it down, so aim for a time a couple hours away from a full meal if you can. If Skittles grazes all day, then just do your best and don't worry about it. CBD is really quite flexible, and you aren't going to hurt him as long as you don't go over the dosing on the bottle.
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Thank you for the extra tips :)
 
His PMPS # was higher then normal. But I stayed w 1.5 U. I test his AMPS in 30 mins. All his #’s are in 1st post and on SS
He had a BIG jump from +8 to PMPS!
 
Just follow the plan to give the 1.5 u dose consistently, Sherri. Work at getting back to your usual shot time. Collect data and try not to overreact. Your goal is to get everything settled down and focus on overall trends, not individual numbers in a cycle (unless it's a lime green of course!).
 
To get back to our normal time, I’m gonna have to stall big time :(
Thank you for your advice
 
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