New to this...

[April&Mika]

I have recently been informed (4 weeks ago) by my vet that my cat has diabetes, she was a cat that typically maintained a healthy 12ish lbs, she is 13.5 y/o. She is now 8lbs. I was told to give her 1 unit of vetsulin 2X/day. No feeding instruction other than give her the insulin while she eats. I've been reading different info on her disease. Trying to figure out what to feed her, reading so many conflicting advice. She is very thin now, she seems/acts like she is starving to death. I came across this site and read some great info, things I didn't think about. I feed my cats (3 of them-lost #4 2 months ago to cancer but now thinking she had cancer and diabetes also) Nutrish dry cat food at lib all day, morning snack- 1 delectible lickable packet with added water for all to share, night snack- temptations treats 5ish each. I read a thread stating dry food is bad especially for diabetics, and increasing wet food for weight gain, i'm going to the store later today to buy new canned friskies pates, so much to learn I know.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Welcome to the best group you could have found April and Mika .
So sorry about losing Peaches
With Vetsulin you have to feed first and then wait 30 minutes to inject Vetsulin
Vetsulin hits hard and fast , it's not the best insulin for cats
I see you are feeding dry food and temptation treats which ate very high in carbs
You need to start home testing before you start the low carb Friskies Pate because it can drop Mika's BG low and without home testing can cause a hypo event.

If you have a Walmart by you I would go and purchase this
If you don't have one by you any human meter will be fine at ant pharmacy, or CVS,Walgreen's etc
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
So ignore that
I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

[April&Mika]

Welcome to the best group you could have found April and Mika .
So sorry about losing Peaches
With Vetsulin you have to feed first and then wait 30 minutes to inject Vetsulin
Vetsulin hits hard and fast , it's not the best insulin for cats
I see you are feeding dry food and temptation treats which ate very high in carbs
You need to start home testing before you start the low carb Friskies Pate because it can drop Mika's BG low and without home testing can cause a hypo event.
Be right back

Thank you Diane, I'm glad I found this site.
I have already stopped the dry food a few days ago, just doing the wet delectables right now, she has already lost 4 lbs and seems to be starving I'm getti g the home kits soon!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Once you start testing you need to transition slowly to all low carb food.
Most of the members will give the Freeze Dried cat treats

Click on this link and look at post #6. Numbers are to the right
You can get any freeze dried treats ,information is there
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/brand-new-many-questions-3.255627/#post-2878703

Feeding the bigger meal after you test Mika is what we do, then feeding smaller snacks such as 1 or 2 teaspoons of lc wet food during each 12 hour cycle . Maybe around @+2 ( 2 hours after giving insulin is what this means) then around @+4
Same goes for the night cycle

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

This message board has been around for over 25 years and we like to think that not only do we have a wonderful community of members but we do our best to stay up to date on how to best treat feline diabetes.

A word of warning. The beginning of this process is overwhelming. There's a huge amount to learn. It gets easier! That said, I'm going to provide a lot of information.

To a degree, diabetes does cause your cat to starve to death. All food is broken down to glucose. Insulin is what transports glucose into the cells so your cat can make use of whatever it is that she's eating. If the pancreas isn't producing insulin, there's not an effective way for the glucose to get to the cells so your cat is hungry all the time. It also means that if you test your cat's blood, you're going to see elevated blood glucose levels because the glucose is not where it's supposed to be (i.e., inside the cells vs floating around in your cat's bloodstream). To correct the problem, you provide insulin injections. The amount of insulin may need to be adjusted to make sure that blood glucose levels are normalizing. The reason that your cat is hungry is likely due to her blood glucose levels still being high.

One reason I suspect your cat's levels are high is what you're feeding your cat. Just like humans, a diabetic cat needs to be fed a low carbohydrate diet. We consider a low carb diet to be under 10% carbohydrate. The Nutrish dry food (chicken and brown rice) is 39% carbs. Needless to say, that's a high carb diet. This is a link to a website on feline nutrition. It may be more information than you want but the bottom line is that cats are obligate carnivores. They are unable to process anything but protein. In addition, they do not have a huge thirst drive. That's reason #2 that dry food isn't good for them. Canned or raw food is a preferable diet. On the website is a chart that contains nutritional information regarding most of the canned foods that are available in the US. You have lots of choices for a low carb diet. Many of the members here feed their cats either Fancy Feast or Friskies pate style food. Those foods are in the range of 5% carb. I'd encourage you to consider slowly transitioning your cat to a lower carb diet. However, please do so slowly.

We are huge proponents of home testing. The best way to keep your cat safe and for you to know if the insulin is effectively treating your cat's diabetes is to learn how to home test. It gives you a great deal of control over what's going on with your cat. It will also save you a fortune in vet bills. You can run a curve at home vs bringing your cat in to the vet to be tested. This is a link to our materials on home testing. Many of the members here use the Walmart brand Relion glucose monitor to test their cat.

And finally, insulin. Since 2018, the American Animal Hospital Assn no longer recommends Vetsulin for the treatment of feline diabetes. The AAHA guidelines recommend either Lantus (or it's generic/biosimilar, glargine) or Prozinc. Vetsulin is a harsh, shorter acting insulin that does not have sufficient duration to last a 12-hour cycle. As a result, it drops your cat's blood glucose numbers hard and fast and is out of your cat's system in 8 - 10 hours. Prozinc and glargine are much gentler and last much longer. I've linked a copy of the guidelines. I'd encourage you to have a discussion with your vet about switching insulin.

As Diane noted, you need to have food on board before giving your cat Vetsulin. (This isn't the case with either glargine or Prozinc as they start working after a longer delay.) It's also important to know that if you switch to a lower carb food, it's important to home test so you are sure that your cat is in safe numbers.

Please let us know how we can help.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Sienne is so great at explaining things better than I am. Like Sienne said let us know how we can help you or if you have any other questions you might have
You might want to read this link in case you haven't already
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

When you start to home test if you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask

 

[April&Mika]

Sienne is so great at explaining things better than I am. Like Sienne said let us know how we can help you or if you have any other questions you might have
You might want to read this link in case you haven't already
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

When you start to home test if you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask

Thanks Diane, I have downloaded the "relion" app for documentation, would i also need the spreadsheet?

 

[April&Mika]

Sienne is so great at explaining things better than I am. Like Sienne said let us know how we can help you or if you have any other questions you might have
You might want to read this link in case you haven't already
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

When you start to home test if you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask

Hi Sienne,
Thanks for all that great info. So I went and purchased the relion total kit. I think I poked her nearly 7 times before getting enough blood. First check she was over 600(the monitor doesn't show exactly if it's that high so it could have been more). I fed her the "friskies pate" waited 20min the her number was 510, she ate an entire can then begged for more. So in the morning i'll see what she is. I'll also contact my vet about the insulin change. Yes I see where this will be an ongoing trial and error process. I appreciate all your help.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thanks Diane, I have downloaded the "relion" app for documentation, would i also need the spreadsheet?

Hi April I don't what you mean by this?
Yes you will need our spreadsheet so you can record Mika's BG numbers
Can you please tap on this blue link ,it's info we need about Mika and it will tell you how to set up our spreadsheet and how to use it
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

When you start to home test if you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask, I can tag a member to set it up for you

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Sienne,
Thanks for all that great info. So I went and purchased the relion total kit. I think I poked her nearly 7 times before getting enough blood. First check she was over 600(the monitor doesn't show exactly if it's that high so it could have been more). I fed her the "friskies pate" waited 20min the her number was 510, she ate an entire can then begged for more. So in the morning i'll see what she is. I'll also contact my vet about the insulin change. Yes I see where this will be an ongoing trial and error process. I appreciate all your help.

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Wendy&Neko

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

If you do switch to Lantus
With Lantus you will need the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings , just want to be sure you have them if you start the Lantus, , you can also get the generic version with is less expensive ,you can ask the pharmacy about it
If you don't have the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings since we adjust the doses by 0.25 units at a time

• U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus, Levemir, or the Biosimilars from vials, cartridges, and pens.
• BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn are just some of the brands available with half unit markings.
• I would suggest the sure comfort or the UltiCare Vet RX or if you have a Walmart by you
• You can get the syringes with half unit markings at a Walmart. Their ReliOn Brand syringes of 0.3 cc (30 unit) capacity come with half unit markings. Cost $12.58 for a box of 100
  This is what the packaging looks like: either box is fine
  They won't say it half unit on the box but the are . open then and look before you leave the store, can't be ordered on line , need to go into the store
  :
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Or ADW diabetes call them and tell them what you want and they will contact your vet to fax over a script , ask your vet for refills so give your vet a heads up, either one of these are fine
  https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct
  
  https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/5739/ulticare-u100-vet-rx-half-unit-syringes-31g-3-10cc-60ct
  
  Here is a coupon if you get them from ADW diabetes
  
  
  
  10% off your next order!

Or you can get them from Amazon and won't need a vet's prescription
https://www.amazon.com/UltiCare-31-Gauge-Veterinary-Insulin-Syringes/dp/B009LTE0DO

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Tap on this blue link and read post # 48 , post numbers are to the right
It's information about generic Lantus which most members use because it's more affordable than Lantus
I would ask the vet for generic Lantus
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-and-switching-to-lantus.284575/#post-3133215


Also I would ask your vet to write the script for the 5 pens instead of using the vials

You can read all about Lantus here, all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen! You will see a small gray rubber stopper, insert the syringe there

 

[April&Mika]

Hi April I don't what you mean by this?
Yes you will need our spreadsheet so you can record Mika's BG numbers
Can you please tap on this blue link ,it's info we need about Mika and it will tell you how to set up our spreadsheet and how to use it
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

When you start to home test if you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask, I can tag a member to set it up for you

Oh i just meant the app had a documentation area- manually adding when the glucose was given, the number, the date. This week I work 12 hour shifts at work so i'll have less free time so just trying to figure out how to do everything. I'll check out the spread sheet and try to add it to the signature area. Thanks so much for the added info. FYI Mika was 418 this morning before eating anything, so down 200+ but still not good I know.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Kitty is typically going to be highest before the shot. With any of the insulins, the numbers will go down after the shot. The lowest point for Vetsulin can be around 4 hours after the shot, later with Lantus and Prozinc. Whenever you get the chance, either during the day or at night before bed, test again a few hours after you've given the shot. That'll give you a better idea how the Vetsulin is doing. My girl started on Caninsulin (what Vetsulin outside the US), and it wore off hours before the next shot. She was STARVING as she sat in high numbers for hours before the next shot.

 

[April&Mika]

Kitty is typically going to be highest before the shot. With any of the insulins, the numbers will go down after the shot. The lowest point for Vetsulin can be around 4 hours after the shot, later with Lantus and Prozinc. Whenever you get the chance, either during the day or at night before bed, test again a few hours after you've given the shot. That'll give you a better idea how the Vetsulin is doing. My girl started on Caninsulin (what Vetsulin outside the US), and it wore off hours before the next shot. She was STARVING as she sat in high numbers for hours before the next shot.

Ok update- the dr got back with me, he said he doesn't recommend the prozink, and cats he knows that was on it ended up needing to be put on vetsulin because the prozink wasn't very effective. so not sure to do about that. On a good note, I fed Mika, waited 20 min then gave her the insulin then another 20 min checked her BG and it was now 362, that's the lowest number I've had yet. I think it's a combo of switching her dry food to the canned friskies pate, waiting 20 min to give insulin, then checking BG 20 min after that. I'm still trying to get to the spreadsheet stuff, I lost my password for the download so i'm trying to get that.

 

[April&Mika]

Sienne is so great at explaining things better than I am. Like Sienne said let us know how we can help you or if you have any other questions you might have
You might want to read this link in case you haven't already
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

When you start to home test if you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask

I just updated some info of mine into the "signature" area, I'm trying to find the spreadsheet now.

 

[April&Mika]

Is my spreadsheet viewable now?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Yes it is! But the number that goes in the AMPS cell is the blood sugar value just before you shoot the insulin. The "2" goes in the Units column. The spreadsheet is color coded, anything below 50 blood sugar on the human meter goes bright green and causes us alarm.

he said he doesn't recommend the prozink, and cats he knows that was on it ended up needing to be put on vetsulin because the prozink wasn't very effective.

Hmm. Many hundreds of cats have been on FDMB, and I can't remember anyone going from Prozinc onto Vetsulin as a better insulin. Vetsulin works for a small handful of cats, but Prozinc or Lantus work way better.

 

[Katsallday]

Ok update- the dr got back with me, he said he doesn't recommend the prozink, and cats he knows that was on it ended up needing to be put on vetsulin because the prozink wasn't very effective. so not sure to do about that. On a good note, I fed Mika, waited 20 min then gave her the insulin then another 20 min checked her BG and it was now 362, that's the lowest number I've had yet. I think it's a combo of switching her dry food to the canned friskies pate, waiting 20 min to give insulin, then checking BG 20 min after that. I'm still trying to get to the spreadsheet stuff, I lost my password for the download so i'm trying to get that.

well idk if this helps…but the AAHA guidelines recommend prozinc and Glargine insulins over vetsulin. In fact, it’s not mentioned in this guide at all. https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/diabetes-management/treatment/cats/

 

[April&Mika]

Ya idk, i'm going to try to call them again today on my very short work break. Today she jumped back up to BG-415. i can't really figure out what i'm doing wrong with the spread sheet, I tried downloading it, I added my info, but now it's missing, I can't even click on it in my "signature" area, this is completely overwhelming.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Ya idk, i'm going to try to call them again today on my very short work break. Today she jumped back up to BG-415. i can't really figure out what i'm doing wrong with the spread sheet, I tried downloading it, I added my info, but now it's missing, I can't even click on it in my "signature" area, this is completely overwhelming.

I'll tag Bhooma for you to see what's going on with your signature, the 2 units you gave on 1-1 and 1-2 should not be colored green , they should have a white background
Edit forget what I said about the 2 units , Wendy just explained it to me
@Bandit's Mom
@April&Mika

 

[Wendy&Neko]

@Diane Tyler's Mom It's not a problem with the spreadsheet. It's just that the numbers "2" were put in the wrong column. They need to be moved one column to the right.

Question for you April, the spreadsheet shows insulin being given in the mornings, are you also dosing at night? If so, the dose "2" goes in the "U" cell after the PMPS cell.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@Diane Tyler's Mom It's not a problem with the spreadsheet. It's just that the numbers "2" were put in the wrong column. They need to be moved one column to the right.

Question for you April, the spreadsheet shows insulin being given in the mornings, are you also dosing at night? If so, the dose "2" goes in the "U" cell after the PMPS cell.

What the heck is wrong with me now I see what you are talking about
thanks for pointing it out

 

[April&Mika]

What the heck is wrong with me now I see what you are talking about
thanks for pointing it out

Ya she's still floating between 400-500, i increased the dose from 1 to 2, twice a day last week for a couple days but then thought that could be bad and i wanted her food to naturally bring it down so i brought her back to 1cc/twice a day. I really can't figure out the spreadsheet sorry, and my work is off the charts busy, i'm at work from morning threw night some weeks so no time to fill it out either. I've also bought about 50 cans of the pate canned cat food, ive reduced her intake from 1 can twice a day to 1/2 a can twice a day, so far it hasn't reduced her numbers, she's gobbling it down in 2 minutes, i feel so bad i'm about to give her 1 can again, she's only 8 lbs, use to be 12. I had a melt down at the vet and fired him from my cats care when they refused to change her insulin and then never called me back so will be searching for a new vet. Happy new year lol.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

The last entry in the spreadsheet in you signature is Jan 2. In rder to really help you we need more data/BGs.
The SS shows that you are using Vetsulin. That is a fast acting insulin so you need to take a BG at about 4-5 hours. Also, taking a BG before shot is highly recommended.

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

ive reduced her intake from 1 can twice a day to 1/2 a can twice a day, so far it hasn't reduced her numbers, she's gobbling it down in 2 minutes,

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) says it better than I ever could so I'm just going to quote her:
A diabetic is processing food just fine. Whatever your cat eats is metabolized into glucose. It's what happens from that point on that's more the issue. Insulin is a hormone that helps glucose move from the bloodstream into the cells. When you are testing your cat, you're testing the blood glucose level. In other words, you're testing to see how much glucose is floating around in the blood. You don't want to have very much glucose in the bloodstream because that's what tells you your cat is diabetic. If the glucose is in the blood and not in the cells, the end product of food being metabolized (i.e., glucose) isn't "feeding" the cells and as a result, your cat is starving all the time.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

If she's continuing to lose weight, you need to feed her more.

Sorry we can't help you with the insulin dose, we need the spreadsheet data to comment on that. I really doesn't take much time out of your day to enter a few numbers.