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FurMomma3

FurMomma3

Member Since 2012
Hello, my name is Kae. My baby boy, Ash, was diagnosed with Diabetes on September 29th 2012. His blood glucose levels were 650 at that time. we were sent home and told to give 2 units of Lantus twice a day. He went back a week later for a check up and his sugar was down to 223. At that point he was eating one can of fancy feast classic and two tablespoons of Purina DM. We went back on October 18th because he was not eating. I got him to eat by feeding him high carb treats. His blood glucose then jumped to 390. The next day I went and bought a ReliOn Ultima. I tested his blood at 4pm on saturday it was 144. I was first thinking how could that be? at the vet his numbers are really high. Then today (Sunday) I fed him as normal (our new normal) of one can of FFC and his shot. About 2 hours later he ate 1/4 can of food (normally he does not get to eat again but he was just so darn cute with his begging) at 11 I tested his sugar. His BGL was 68! I was happy and sad. That was low for him! I gave him some Purina DM to raise him up and tested 2 hours later at 1. His level went to 96. I was happier with that but still want him atleast in the 100's so gave him a few more kibbles. What do I do now? Do I take him down to 1 unit? I will be gone during the day all week (school and work) so I will not be able to test him as much. Help! I am increasing his canned food to 3-4 and removing the kibble hopefully??? What do you think? 4 cans sounds like a ton of food. That would be 2 cans at breakfast and 2 at dinner? I have 2 other cats that are in dire need to loose weight. None of them are active (no matter how hard I try) any recommendations? Am I doing something wrong?
 
Hi Kae and Ash,
mark and i and our cat oliver, are newbies here also. I want you to know that you are now working with some of the kindest, most knowledgeable people on this planet.
I'm sure there will be someone along directly to help you take care of your baby. While you are waiting for them to respond to you, there's a bunch of great information in the stickies on the top of all the forums.
take good care... and welcome to the newbie class!
mary, mark, oliver twist
 
Welcome! First of all - good on you for getting a meter and home testing! Lantus is a good insulin and your choice to feed Fancy Feast was good! But the dry Purina DM is too high in carbs (13% - we recommend less than 8%)

Second - 68 isn't a scary low number! It's actually a great number IF it is at the nadir (about 6-8 hrs after the shot). If it's at another time, like when you were about to give the next shot, it could mean he's getting too much insulin.

Third - You do NOT want to remove the dry Purina DM without testing a LOT to make sure the reduced carbs isn't going to make his blood sugar drop too low and go hypoglycemic. 2 units is a higher starting dose than we recommend here. Usually we recommend .5u or 1u.


As for food - unregulated diabetics are HUNGRY because they cannot process the food they are eating. How much he needs to eat depends on how much he weighs. It's 20-30 calories per pound of IDEAL weight per day - so a 12 pound cat should eat between 2.5-3.5 cans of Fancy Feast classics per day, depending on activity. If he seems really hungry give him a small amount of food - it's OK to feed him more for now. Also - you can feed in between shots - you don't have to only feed twice a day. Less food spread out more will make him less hungry and make his numbers not go down so fast.


With Lantus, you want to test JUST before each shot (your routine should go test - feed - shoot). These are called your "preshots" and they are to make sure it is safe to give insulin. DON'T shoot if you get a number under 200!

You will also want to test at least once at what we call the "nadir" - the lowest point of the cycle (the time between each shot). With Lantus, the nadir is usually around 6-8 hrs after the shot is given. Lantus' dose is adjusted based on these nadir numbers, so it's very important to get the tests. It also gives you the full picture of how the insulin is working in your cat.

What you will need to do for us to help you is this:

Please post, in this format, all of the blood glucose numbers you've gotten so far:

DATE
AMPS (AM PRESHOT) #
amount of insulin given
+1 (1 hr after the shot) #
+2 (2 hr after the shot) #
+3 (3 hr after the shot) #
etc...
all the way to +11
then
PMPS (PM PRESHOT) #
amount of insulin given
+1 (1 hr after the shot) #
+2 (2 hr after the shot) #
+3 (3 hr after the shot) #
etc...
all the way to +11

So for example:

Oct. 21
AMPS: 350
1 unit given
+6 80
+8 100
PMPS: 250
1 unit given
+4 120
+8 140
 
I have started charting his levels. One question I have is Why would my numbers be so low compared to the vet's numbers?
 
The cats bg raise when at the vet because the cat offen is really stressed, thas why it is so important to get numbers at home. My cat is in remission, but when we are at the vet, her number go from 80- 400 in no time.
 
Oh awesome, glad you got a spreadsheet going, that's even easier - I just didn't want to overwhelm you.

And to answer your question - yep, it's stress. Stress can significantly inflate BG's 200+ points - it even happens to non diabetics. That's why we always recommend other testing (fructosamine, urinalysis, etc) to diagnose diabetes and not just one blood glucose check from the vet!
 
I will be doing his PMPS test here soon and what if he is not hitting 200 on my meter? should I continue with the 2 units, lessen it, or not give it at all? What if it is close to 200 or still in mid 100's? I have read so many things that are different. I want what is best for him.
 
You can do a few things. If you get a number that's below 200, you can stall for 20 or 30 minutes and test again (don't feed in between). If you get a number that's going down - don't shoot. If you get a number that's going up and it goes over 200, you can shoot. If you're still cautious you can shoot a reduced "token" dose like 1u, but keep in mind that can cause wonky numbers for a few days. If you're ever in doubt and no one is on the board to answer you quick enough, just skip the shot. You will be able to shoot into lower numbers when you know how your cat handles the insulin and if the 2u dose is OK for him. My "no shoot" number with Scooter is 80.
 
Stall a bit (15-30 min) and test again. Don't give any food. Are you still feeding dry by the way? I would be very hesitant to give 2u if you are removing the Purina DM.
 
He would not stay still long enough. I could not get him still to get the blood :-( he is eating now. He was going crazy. Why does he have to be difficult?
 
It's okay, just skip the shot tonight. It's better for him to have higher numbers for a short while than severely hypo for even one minute!

Don't stress too much about not getting a test - I missed a few in the first few weeks too!

Did you catch my comment that you can feed him more than twice a day? You can split his food up into 4 meals (or more if you want) if it's easier. Just don't give any food in the 2 hrs before each preshot test - this is to make sure you get a "clean" reading, not one boosted by food.
 
I did see your post. On that note, I would, but I go to school and work most all of the day. When I get home it is 1 1/2 hours till his 12h. marker. :-( And doing an auto feeder with the 3 I would not know who ate what.
Will skipping mess him up for the next couple days?
 
Yes, he might have high numbers for a few cycles. You can expect a pretty high preshot tomorrow (but who knows, he might surprise you!)

If you want to leave some food out while you're gone, you can add some water and freeze it in ice cube trays. Just pop one or two in each bowl before you leave and they'll thaw out to be snacked on. You really want to try to have some food out during the day, especially if you're not going to be home to monitor - if he's getting low and feels hungry he will have something to snack on to boost his numbers back up a bit.
 
I just wanted to give some advice via the work/school situation. I was working two jobs and going to grad school when Bandit was on insulin, and my full time job also has an hour commute there and back, so I was gone from 7am to 7pm (his shot times). With Lantus, it's very important you get at least 3 tests daily (once before each shot, and a test about 6 hours into at least one of the cycles). Dose adjustments with Lantus are based off that daily mid-cycle test. So I would test and shoot at 7am, leave some frozen food out for Bandit while I was at work, test and shoot when I got home at 7pm, and then test again at 11pm, before I went to bed (+4), and I would set an alarm for 1am (+6) to get up and get that very important test, and then go right back to sleep. Yes, it was a pain at first, but after a week or two my body adjusted and I was just fine with it. It's a little more work in the short term, but getting the right data to dose Lantus properly vastly increases your chances of getting your cat into remission (86% of cats go into remission with Lantus and a low carb canned diet if the insulin is dosed according to the right dosing protocol). And trust me, that will pay off in the long term for both you and your cat so many times over.

On the weekends when I was home during the day, I'd do a curve and get a few extra tests in.

It's likely 2u is too high a dose, and it's twice as much as the recommended starting dose for most cats (unless you have a very large-framed cat [but not overweight] like a Bengal or a Maine Coon)--most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin. Once the dry food is removed, it's very likely you'll need to reduce the dose a bit, so make sure you're either going to be there to test, or reduce the dose to something safer, like 1u.
 
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