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Kurai & Daniel

Kurai & Daniel

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Alright hello! Please call me Kurai, I'm a 23 year old female from central Florida. I am the bringer of noms to two loving felines. They also find me to be a conveniant cushion and believe that I should never be without fur to remind me of them. Kassy is my 5 year old little pudgy girl and Daniel is my big 8 year old cuddle cat. Well he used to be big. My Danny boy was diagnosed with diabetes yesterday. So he is why I am here.

I took him to the vet in December due to him not eating as much and being far more disinterested in his food and drinking way more than usual. One of them was also going to the potty outside the box (on the couch... hoo boy) and there was blood in a stool in the box, so I was concerned. Both went to the vet, and he blew off my concerns, saying they couldn't do a fecal test unless I knew who had blood in their stool and that neither appeared to have a UTI. No blood tests, no urine samples, nothing. Simply told me Daniel wasn't eating as much because his teeth were hurting (they did a dental cleaning) and I should get some feliway to solve the improper urination issues. There were certain stressors going on then so I didn't question that the peeing was just their way of acting out. They didn't like their litter, they weren't happy that my roomie and her cats moved out. After that appointment I didn't have any further issues, I changed their litter back because I was just as unhappy as they were with it, amd things seemed to go back to normal. Except Daniel was losing weight. A lot of weight. So I took him to a different vet after gathering opinions from coworkers and friends and seeing who they suggested. He had lost 3 pounds in 3 months. I was so upset yesterday, which was more from the fact that I thought I'd have to put my baby to sleep, so hearing him diagnosed with diabetes was almost a relief to me. At least now I feel like I have a vet I can trust. He's going to the vet again on Wednesday to get his glucose curve done (I might be saying that wrong), and will be started on insulin then, from what I understand.

I just want to be prepared. So that's why I'm here. Theres so much to take in, and I feel like I have to learn it so fast. I just need to remember to breathe I guess, haha. It's not the end. Sorry if I sound slightly panicky, I'm trying really hard not to be.

Are there any questions I need to make sure to ask my vet when Daniel goes for his curve? I don't know if the vet is going to suggest home testing but I think I'd like to do it anyways. I have no idea what kind of insulin was prescribed or I'd tell you guys, but the rx is at home. I'll likely get it filled on Monday or Tuesday. Have to take it to the vet with me. I'm sure I'll have fifty billion questions in time, I'm making sure to look through past posts as well so ya'll won't have to repeat yourselves.
 
hi kurai and welcome!

i've only been here 2 weeks so will let others give you knowledgeable advice, but want to assure you that people here will help you figure out what to do to help Danny. You found the right site!
 
Hi Kuria,
So glad that you have changed vets. You really need to be able to work in partnership with your vet to do the best for your kitty with diabetes. Since you are not going back to the vet until Wednesday, I suggest that you get a glucometer asap and begin testing. You can just go to any pharmacy and buy a human glucometer, strips, and lancets. Many people in the US seem to find the Relion from Walmart inexpensive and it does a good job. The meter itself is the less expensive part - its the strips that will add up. Most people test before each insulin shot to be sure that it is safe to give insulin, and then ideally one or two tests at about the 6 to 8 hour mark to see what the lowest point is. When you are testing at home, there is no need to take Daniel to the vet for a curve - it is more accurate at home and far less expensive.

The other important piece of the puzzle is the food that you are feeding your kitties. Diabetic cats do best on low carb food - less than 8% usually and wet. Dry food is not helpful at all to a diabetic cat. If your cats are already eating wet (canned) food, then you will just need to check the food list to be sure that it is low carb. If they are eating dry, I urge you to transition them to wet, lo carb before you start insulin. Just a food change can make quite a difference in the blood glucose. Check out this site for great info on nutrition for cats - www.catinfo.org

There is lots of great information at the top of the page, and detail about each insulin on the insulin support groups. Check the group for the insulin that you have been prescribed. Maybe before you fill the prescription, check back here for information from the more experienced members.

This board is a wealth of information and experience. Read lots and ask questions. We have all been scared and wondering about the future of our kitties. There are lots of people here to help you help Daniel.
 
Thank you both for the warm welcome.

The nurse at the vets office told me that this insulin would be cheapest at Walmart, so I'll take a look at that glucometer as soon as I get off of work. (I'm a midnight shifter, I get off in 4 hours) I'm worried about not being able to get the blood sample right, but I'm reading guides, I just hope I get it down without agitating him too much.

I read Dr. Lisa's website while I was doing diet research last night and I was feeding him only dry food for his whole 8 years, which I feel rather bad about now. They only got wet food once in a blue moon. I'm making a switch though and started yesterday. The vet sent me home with Hills M/D wet food, though I don't much like the ingredients list. I've switched Kass over to Fancy Feast Classic which Daniel has eaten a bit of too because the vet didn't give me enough food to last til Wednesday, but I made sure to get the ones that are supposed to be less than 10% from carbs, avoided fish. I'm blessed to be able to afford everything right now, but the food the vet gave me is iffy IMHO, and expensive at that.

Thank you for your advice. I'll look to see if theres a guide for doing a curve at home. I think I did see one, but I've looked at so much I'm not sure I remember.

I really can't tell you how much I appreciate your replies. It makes me feel so much better.
 
Welcome!

This really is a disease managed at home and you sound up to the job! Here is a list of what you need for hometesting:

A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

I would be nice if your vet supported homestesting, but you do not need permission. We figure if we had diabetic children, we would test their blood sugars. We do the same for our 4 legged children.

Good job changing the diet. That can make a real difference.

The curve is just a test taken every 2-3 hours during the day to see how the insulin is working. I would argue that it doesn't make much sense to have your vet do the curve now as most insulins do take a while (in most cats) to start working. Our suggestion is to start with a low dose (like .5 or one unit twice daily) and do regular testing to see how it is working. Then if the testing shows more insulin is needed, you can slowly increase the dose. It is a Start Low, Go Slow approach that has proved successful for many cats. We suggest trying a curve a week or so after the insulin is started, with daily testing done before each shot and at mid cycle.
 
Thanks Sue! I'll make sure to pick up some ketone strips and Vaseline when I go to the pharmacy tomorrow.

I've got the ReliOn meter and now I'm just trying to figure out how to use it. I am of course going to ty it on myself first but it'd be nice if it came with the test solution you're supposed to use on the first try according to the instruction manual. Then at least I'd know exactly what to do before I even poke myself. I'll try reading the manual again. The times in it is what's got me confused. Do I only have 20 seconds after I put in the strip to get the blood on the strip? Or do I have the 5 minutes til it turns itself off?

I'll have to find some lo carb treats for him. I'm having a bit of a time getting them both used to the wet food now. Kass has a tendency to walk off and leave the food there for later. That used to work fine when she had dry food, she'd come back and eat. But I don't want to leave it out. I don't think the Fancy Feast will hurt Danny if he eats a bit of it (I know it's better than his dry food) but now I'm worried that Kass isn't eating enough.

I actually don't know if my vet supports hometesting, but I still need to go back on Wednesday. I want to know exactly how to give D his insulin. I'll tell them I intend to hometest and gauge a reaction from that. I'm still having a hard time with trust, even though I feel much better with this vet than the other.

As for the insulin itself the actual scrip was for glargine insulin, which the Walmart pharmacist originally told me they didn't have. When I went to a different pharmacy they actually looked it up. The insulin is Lantus, and the Walmart pharmacy does carry it, they just didn't recognize that it was one in the same. You can probably imagine my frustration when the exact pharmacy my Vet tells me to go to tells me they don't carry the insulin he prescribed. I wanted to pull my hair out earlier haha. I get to pick it up tomorrow morning.
 
Ah yes, all those little details that seem to all pile on at once! The only thing that I don't recall seeing mentioned is syringes. If you get them at the pharmacy, be sure that they are the correct ones for the insulin. Insulins come in two strengths - U 40 and U 100 and using the correct syringes is important. They are definitely less expensive at someplace like Walmart than from the vet.

To test the times, just put a strip in the meter and let it time out. You can then pull the strip out and put it in again as long as you haven't put blood on it. Many of us put the strip in the meter just enough to stay there but not enough to start the time. Then when we actually get the drop of blood we push the strip in. It is really trial and error to see exactly what works for you.
 
Oops - forgot to talk about food. Its ok to leave the wet food out for them to graze on. Just mix some extra water in with the food so that it doesn't dry out. Some people mix up to a can of water making it like the consistency of apple sauce. To encourage D to try it, you can sprinkle a little parmesan cheese on the top or mix in some tuna juice. Or trying crushing some of the dry food and sprinkly it on top, or mix it in. gradually decrease the amount of dry that you mix in. www.catinfo.org has some good info onencouraging cats to eat wet food.
 
Thanks so much Just-as-appy, I didn't even think about syringes, and no one at the Pharmacy or the vet has mentioned them. I wonder if they expect me to bring them to the appt on Wednesday. *shakes head* I'll be sure to ask about them when I go to the Pharmacy tomorrow, right after I pester them into giving me cartridges instead of a vial. When I put the scrip in they told me it would last a long time. Guess they didn't consider that it would expire or go stale, if that's how you'd say it.

I just got done testing the meter! My coworker must have thought I was going off my rocker when I started talking to my finger. Why won't you bleed! *chuckles* It actually does give me plenty of time to get the blood to the strip. Rereading I found that they suggested that if you can't get the blood to well up within 20 seconds you should try to lance a different area. That's where I got tripped up. Very straight forward though. I just hope Danny gets along fine.

As for the food, I'm more worried that Daniel will eat it all! Kass just isn't getting it, but she will. I've been mixing a bit of her old food with the new and she's been eating it. Just not as much as I'd like.

The vet told me to feed Daniel 2/3rds a can of Hills M/D twice a day, but he still seems hungry. He looks for more and cries. Should I be concerned? Or is he still just getting over that the dry food isn't there to graze on? I just started with the Hills yesterday.
 
Many cats don't like the wet DM. It is liver based and they seem to get tired of the taste. It is also no better than the non prescription food and much more expensive. Most of us feed Fancy Feast, Merrick or Friskies. Any food that is around 8% carbs and you can afford that your kitty will eat: Janet and Binky’s chart Wellness also used to be popular but they have recently had a recall.

This sticky from the Lantus page has the correct syringes: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151 You should really read all their stickies; there is a lot of good information there.

This website has great ideas for transitioning from dry to wet: catinfo.org You can feed both of your kitties wet - it will be better for both of them.

You are doing great. Keep reading and asking questions.

It will be great if your vet supports hometesting. But it is your cat and you can test at home if you like. It is really the only way to keep him safe. Same for the food - if your vet insists on DM and you want to feed something else, just say your cat won't eat. Your vet is not there to see what you feed and to watch when you test.
 
The other thing you can do is a couple of 'dry runs' with bg testing. Get your supplies all ready - warmed rice sock or warmed water in a pill bottle, testing meter and strip, papertowel or makeup remover pad to wipe ear after test and hold pressure, lancet, TREAT (blood or not, always a treat). Hold kitty on your lap or counter or sofa - whereever you have decided to test. Warm ear, fiddle, inseert strip, pickup lance, fiddle with ear. Give treat. Did you have enough time? This will help you work out the routine. And if all is calm, go ahead and prick and test.
 
Thank you both. I did my run with the meter this morning. I had plenty of time but I couldn't get enough blood. I'll try again when I get out of bed this afternoon, before dinner time. And of course he got a treat :3 He was a good boy for me. I'm relieved that he purred through it. Suprising really. He only got a little antsy cause I was holding his ear too long. Still purred for me though. He loves the attention.

Oh he likes the Fancy Feast. Janet and Binkys chart has been very helpful.

I'm only having a few issues getting my insulin, but I posted over in the Lantus support group since they'd know the specifics. Every pharmacy wants to tell me something different ;-;
 
Ideas to get more blood.

Ears seem to "learn" to bleed. It becomes much easier with time, so don't get discouraged.

You can double poke. Just a quick second poke in the same spot.
What size lancets? In the beginning, the bigger ones make a larger hole. The bigger ones are the smaller gauge -so 25 - 28 can be a better size.
Be sure to warm the ear enough. That was vital for us. You want the sack very warm and if he will let you, warm it for a minute or so before you poke.
Be sure to have something behind the ear to poke against. You can leave the rick sack there. Some people warm the ear with the pill bottle so they have that surface. Others use a folded kleenix.

How about getting a spreadsheet started? Setting up a spreadsheet It will help you keep track of patterns and treats and doses, and when you need help with dosing, it will let others see your numbers and history at a glance. If you need help with the spreadsheet, just ask.
 
kurai, you can also poke the spot, then massage around the spot to encourage more blood to well up. i just saw someone else's post that said make sure you hold the lancet pen in place for several seconds before and after you poke. haven't tried it yet, but i will. the blood flows from the eyebrows out along the inside of the ear to the tip, then down the outside of the ear.
 
Yes! Thanks for the tips guys. I managed to get enough blood for an initial test, he really just wanted to sniff the rice sock, didn't even flinch. He showed at 314, but I didn't get to test until after he had eaten. I'll do my best to get that spreadsheet started. Insulin starts tomorrow. I wish I had someone who could stay with him overnight while I'm at work tomorrow. I might ask my mom, just to keep an eye on him.

Struggled with the pharmacy again, but I finally got the insulin! Hurrah! Tomorrow I'm going to take a printout about the type of syringes I need. They kept offering me ones that only had 1 unit markings. I tried to explain that I needed half unit marks but they just didn't get it. I refuse to guesstimate a half a unit! It makes me uncomfortable. Even though the vet wants to start out at 1 unit twice a day if it goes up or down by half unit increments I'd be screwed.
 
Wow - good job getting your spread sheet up. Just over 300 isn't too bad, especially after eating. If you can't get the half unit marks, just buy a pack of 10 rather than the box. It will give you time to source the others if needed. At worst, you may have to guess half units a few times. His dose should be the same for minimum 3 days so if you start with one unit, you'll be fine. The dosing protocol suggested through experience is here - http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581 - you have probably already read it, but its good to review.

PS I realized that I misspelled your name a few posts ago - sorry.
 
It's alright Appy (Is that an ok shortning for you?) I've had my nickname spelled a plethora of ways XP

I got a small bag of 10 syringes from the vets office. They're a bit of a pain to read but the Dr showed me which line I needed to go to. I'm a little nervous that I may have given him a fur shot but I didn't feel any moisture on his fur after I injected. I hope I did it right. He spiked from 253 up to 344 after his meal. I wish I was home to keep checking him. His poor ears.

He hasn't flinched for anything either. Testing, actual injecting... so long as I'm doing it he just looks at me and gives me the "wheres the food" look XD

The vet actually started out telling me he might raise the dose based on todays results. Haha, no. I went on a bit of a tangent explaining the whole start low, go slow, and the insulin shed, and that I wanted to wait. I think he agreed with me just so I'd stop talking XP He's on board with the at home testing, but I'm doing more of it then he advised. Once or twice a week, how bout at least twice a day, and on most days more. He didn't like my choice of glucometer though. *sighs* I wish I didn't have such a hard time trusting the vet. He hasn't done anything to deserve the light of mistrust I've put on him, not yet.
 
I love my vet but I came here for diabetic advice. She was amazed when I came in with my numbers and my OTJ cat. One vet at a time....we'll get them converted!
 
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