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harrysmom

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Good Morning

I haven't posted on this board before and had some questions. Harry's numbers are pretty good staying in the 100-200 range, sometimes without shots which leads to my questions. Currently I am using u40 syringes that the vet gave me and right now I am just estimating the .5unit, sometimes I think he could use .25u but am not comfortable estimating that. I need to get new syringes (u100) and none of my local stores have them, is this the correct ones to buy or if anyone knows another type:

http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.co ... 39_179.htm

Also I've seen some people talking about micro dosing - what exactly is that? I can't beleive the differnce the diet change alone has made for him - his numbers were over 400 when he was dx in Novemeber. I'm so glad I found this site :-D

Thanks for any info
Sharon

On a side note I was able to convince one of my friends to switch to all canned diet for her 3 cats because of all the info I have learned here. One down, ... to go ;-)
 
Hi Sharon:
Welcome to PZI :)
Those syringes look correct to me. We use this brand/kind which should be the same:



I find the BD ones have less problems with bubbles than others we have tried. (I never tried the brand you have pointed out tho) Most important thing is whatever U100s you get, they have to have half unit markings and it says that the ones you indicated do.

So glad Harry’s numbers are good for you. I have a kitty that takes pretty much insulin (2.8 to 3 units BID) so I can’t advise you on micro dosing, but someone here will be able to help you soon. This forum seems to be most busy in the evenings.

Best,
Donna and Asher
 

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Hi Harry's Mom,

Can we know your name too? :-D

It does look like you are ready for mini dosing. The most recent kitty we have had doing that is Cello. Here is his spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ApRoVAkSuXuUdDltSnA3ZFVHQ3BUdlNLanJYRkQzSnc

She decided what her cut off numbers were for a .25 dose and .50 dose and then tested often. When she got to those numbers, and was sure the number was rising, not falling, she shot. It does throw the schedule off, but is usually easier than testing at +12 and having to decide what to do with that number.

Ask questions and we will help you with the process. At first, Cello's mom would post before she shot a mini dose and ask for advice. Soon she got comfortable with it and did it on her own.
 
Oh Sorry, my name is Sharon.

Could you give me some general guidlines for numbers to shot on and how much? I'm so new at this I'm afraid I'll do something wrong. I can't start anything till I get the new syringes that I will order today so it wil prob be a couple days before I can go lower than .5.

Do you think I have made the right call on when not to shot? I haven't gotten any green yet...

This whole thing is very nerve wracking :?

Thanks, you guys are lifesavers!!
 
You look at his numbers and then decide what may work for him and be something you can be comfortable with. Pretty nebulous, huh? It's that darn ECID different thing, because you have to consider how the insulin works in his body and what his pancreas is contributing.

So you have been giving .5 at around 170-200 and it hasn't taken him into the greens yet. You haven't shot at all under 160. But his pancreas seems to be working and helping out since he hasn't gone up into high numbers, even when you skipped a dose.

You first decide what you feel safe with, Sharon. If .5 hasn't gotten you any greens at that 200 range, you might try .75 (when you get your U100 needles) when he is up in that range. If you feel comfortable shooting a low dose between 150 - 170 and want to try .25, you could do that. The trick is to try some of these doses when you will be around to monitor. Once you see what happens when you shoot the .25, then you can adjust up or down or decide to skip the dose at that range. But the cardinal rule is to never shoot a number until you are sure it is headed up, not down.

Somethng else that can help is to work with the food. One interesting experiment to try is to test, feed and then test in 40 minutes or so. (without giving insulin) If his numbers go down after the food, his pancreas is helping out. You can use that by feeding several small meals during the day and night. Divide what you normally feed into smaller meals so he can"graze". Some people freeze the food and leave it out to thaw. Some use an automatic feeder.

Good and bad news. Wonderful that you have these numbers so early in the game. But also scary to have them so early in the game, because you and Harry are just getting used to the dance and you need to make decisions on tiny doses. Nice problem to have and a little nerve wracking.
 
Welcome to the board, Sharon.
From my point of view, yes, you do have a problem, but it's a nice problem. :smile:
 
Sharon
Lori (and Tom GA) have a thread in the Supply Closet right now, about syringes. She has u100's and u40's that she can spare. Contact her or reply in that thread.
She says she also has u40's with 1/2 unit marks and I know somebody else was looking for those lately.
Don't delay, they'll probably go quick....
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=58088

all she's asking is for someone to pay for the shipping, and maybe a tiny donation to newbie kits

Carl
 
Hi there and welcome!

Please take a look at cello's spreadsheet! He started off way worse than your guy but we ended up after about 12 days of 1U bid at about where you are and I had to start microdosing and just shooting as needed.

I am going to repost from another post but this is what I did....

I was on BCP PZI so that is all I know how to dose.

Basically I wouldn't shoot if he was over 150

150-180 I gave the smallest possible I could on a 100U syringe (0.25U) (BUT MAKE SURE # IS RISING AT THESE LEVELS ie. test if he was 160, test an hour later, if he is up, shoot, if he is the same or down don't shoot)
180-300 I gave 0.5U - at this level I didn't wait to see if it was going up.
Above 300 0.75 U

then just test intermittently. SOmetimes he would go 36 hours + without needing a shot!

We are OH SO CLOSE TO REMISSION now!!!

Cello is def. diet controlled now. If he has any kibble he goes back up so I'm going to keep insulin handy, but today is our two week mark insulin free, if he goes down tonight I am going to say he is in full remission :) (diet controlled diabetic)

Good luck! it's a tricky but exciting place to be in!!
Keep the low carb/high protein wet and I really wouldn't worry about hypo at those low doses!!
 
I ended up ordering some syringes this morning and by chance I stopped at Rite Aid and they carry them so I bought 10 so I could start the smaller doses now.

I know this is a good problem to have but it makes me nervous!!!

So I have to make sure his numbers are going up to shoot, then am I just giving shots any time of day that the numbers warrant it right?
Would it be really bad to keep the same bid schedule till after xmas with adding in .25u doses if needed? I know this isn't optimal but the reason I ask is I work retail and am working crazy hours for the next couple weeks and don't have alot of monitoring time. If you all think I need to give shots randomly I will do my best but its hard cause I have noone else to test him just to give shots. I work alot of nights so I take a reading as close as I can to the time I leave and decide from that number the dose he should get, again I know not the best scenario but I guess I have to work :lol:
 
Hey, life happens. You can set your cut off points and doses and see what happens. It slows the dance down if he misses a shot and then goes into higher numbers, but he has been staying in pretty decent numbers overall.

Just so we are clear. If you are shooting off the 12/12 schedule, you are not shooting more often than every 12 hours. You are shooting off schedule because he has missed a regularly scheduled shot because he was too low to shoot. So you may be shooting at +15 or +17 or something.

I would do the best I could do and that will be fine. You might do the grazing food thing and see if that helps with the numbers too.
 
you can try to give two shots BID as long as you're testing, but with those numbers he probably won't cooperate (In a good way!)

I would just say try to do it as you can, when they are going up slowly and their pancreas is starting to work it's better to miss a shot (ie. if he is on the border and you have to be gone for 12 hours, just don't shoot and test as soon as you get home and shoot accordingly)
 
I am shooting on the 12/12 schedule (or not shooting in some cases) but maybe I'm confused on what micro dosing is...

for the micro dosing do you still only shoot on the 12/12 schedule or do you just shoot anytime the numbers warrant and are sure the numbers are going up?? Sorry just want to make sure I have this all clear.
 
You shoot 12/12 as long as the numbers are high enough to shoot. If you get a preshot below the number you are comfortable shooting, you wait until it goes up to your threshold number and then shoot the mini dose you planned for that number. Once you do that (as Cello's spreadsheet shows) the 12/12 schedule is usually out the window.
 
see my spreadsheet from 11/05/11 - 11/23/11
This is when I was microdosing. Since he was off schedule I just wrote the units of insulin I gave in bold in the box beside his BG when I shot.

I wanted to stick with 12/12 but it just isn't possible, I mean you can always wait to test until the next 12 hour cycle if you miss a shot because he is too low, but if you CAN catch it going up before then (and consequently have to give less insulin), bonus, if you can't.... well that's life!!!!! I missed lots of times!

The longer periods of time you can keep his BG at normal levels (ie. best if you can catch him rising), the more time his pancreas will have to heal and he'll get better quicker!
 
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