New to Prozinc help with dosage conversion

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mdmelvin1128

mdmelvin1128

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Hey guys, my cat was diagnosed early last month, and has just recently been put on Prozinc. He just got home from the vet today, and according to them he has been doing really well on this insulin. My issue is that they have me giving it to him in a regular syringe. http://www.medi-vet.com/prod-Syringe_1c ... -2833.aspx . i went to the Prozinc website and they say to use a U40 syringe, which I have. I don't like the regular syringes, they are too big, and they hurt. I would rather use the U40 syringes, or even U100, I have both. I'm not sure why they started using the regular ines, and I plan to call and ask tomorrow. I was wondering if anyone knew how to convert the dosage between the different syringes. They have him on .25 in the regular syringe, I need to know what that would be in a U40. Also, when I got him home, I noticed that he has neuropathy in his hind legs. I've read about the methyl B-12's, and was wondering where I would get that to give to him.
 
ok, real quick. please don't give any insulin right now ok, until we get this syringe thing figured out. tuburculin syringes are often seen when cats are overdosed by accident so i'm gonna get someone that knows syringes well ok. wait for me(us) and then we'll figure this out
 
I don't have to shoot again until in the morning, so there's no real hurry. I'm so upset with this vet, but they allow me to pay them out instead of all up front, and right now I really have no other choice.
 
O M G!!!

I'm sorry to be dramatic but I am shocked that they gave you TB syringes to use.

The dose - if my math is correct, and I believe it is - is really high. Let me find a TB syringe and I'll be right back
 
Okay, breathing again

Alright. 0.25cc is what they vet prescribed it sounds like. 1cc = 100 U100 units or 40 U40 units. :shock:

What that means if I'm reading right is that the vet told you to shoot 10 U40 units or 25 U100 units! Please do not give that much insulin. There are some cats here with other conditions who get that much insulin but that is a scary, scary dose for most.

My suggestion is that you decide whether to use the U40s or the U100s and use only one of those types. If you choose the U40 I wouldn't shoot more than 1U to start. If you choose the U100s that would measure to the 2.5U mark.
 
Re: New to Prozinc help with dosage conversion(ETA)

WHEW!!!!!


Okay - that's MUCH better! That actually IS 1 U40 unit or 2.5 U100 units



ETA - and that's exactly why TB syringes don't get used for insulin :mrgreen:
 
wow! i'm refreshing my memory while waiting and wow! you've had 4 insulins in two weeks? i understand the R to vetsulin and then to lantus thing but why did he get switched from lantus to prozinc?? the lantus didn't even get a chance to work. well, on to what you've got now.

we might not have to wait for anyone about this in all honesty :)

given that he's so new to this still and hasn't been on any one insulin long enough to do much, i'd go with the u100 syringes as they are easiest to give small doses with and easier on the eyes for many and i'd start with 1/2 or 1 unit twice a day.

if i remember correctly prozinc is a u40 insulin but you can use the u100 syringes. kitty will be happier you do too. you just have to do a conversion. the conversion is 2.5 times. so 1 unit of u40 would be drawn to the 2.5 mark on the u100 syringe. do you understand syringes well as far as how much each line is?
 
Yes, I understand the syringes, and the conversion between the U40 and U100. I've concluded that my vet is incompetent, at least when it comes to diabetes, thank God I have you guys to ask questions. So, the conversion would be 1 unit in the U40 syringe, or 2.5 units in the U100 syringe. That is good to know for the morning shot.
 
my brain stopped doing that too most days which is why I had to actually look at a TB syringe :lol:

And yes, you have the U40/U100 conversion right :-D

Just one point though. If you use the U100s with a U40 insulin please make sure you still refer to the 2.5 as 1 unit here when you post because otherwise it gets really confusing for some of us (me). :mrgreen:
 
mdmelvin1128 said:
Oh my gosh, I'm sorry, it's .025 that they have him on, not .25, that would be a lot.
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but how did they expect you to measure 0.025 cc on a tuberculin syringe? i just pulled up one to have a look, and the line between 0.02 and 0.03 is really close. i'm not sure even someone with very good eyesight and a steady hand can consistently, if even at all, draw up 0.025 on a tuberculin syringe.

confused_cat
 
mdmelvin1128 said:
So, the conversion would be 1 unit in the U40 syringe, or 2.5 units in the U100 syringe. That is good to know for the morning shot.
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Looking at your spreadsheet, I wouldn't drop the dose to 1.0 unit. He's not doing too badly on the roughly 2.5 units he's getting so why start over from scratch? I would drop the dose to 2.0 units (2 in U-40, 5 in u-100).

Do your U-100s have 1/2 unit markings?
 
wait, Terri, he's not getting 2.5 units according to Susie's math, he's actually already only getting 1 unit, just in the wrong syringe up until last night
 
From everything I've read there is no direct conversion between insulin units and ml/cc because any conversion would be based on the total volume within a syringe. So you'd get a different equivalency for a 100 ml syringe than a 30 ml syringe.

So I will take back my recommendation to start at 2 units and agree with starting at 1 unit in an insulin syringe. However, I do think you will need to be prepared to up the dose every 2 days (4 shots) until you get to something close (but better) than what your current spreadsheet is showing.
 
it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few days. i myself wouldn't worry too much about the spreadsheet data to this point simply because no one insulin has been given a fair chance yet. test and record your data and let's see what prozinc does for you. several people are reporting that they are using more prozinc than their old pzi though so something to keep in mind as you go forward
 
Terri and Lucy said:
From everything I've read there is no direct conversion between insulin units and ml/cc because any conversion would be based on the total volume within a syringe. So you'd get a different equivalency for a 100 ml syringe than a 30 ml syringe.
Click to expand...

This is now a bit OT but I am still baffled that a milliliter, which is a volume measurement, can be one amount/volume level in one syringe and yet another, different volume in a different syringe.

I will admit I was never good at metric measurements but I was under the impression that it there was a scientific standard.

I could be wrong.
 
Susie and Moochie said:
This is now a bit OT but I am still baffled that a milliliter, which is a volume measurement, can be one amount/volume level in one syringe and yet another, different volume in a different syringe.

I will admit I was never good at metric measurements but I was under the impression that it there was a scientific standard.

I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

A milliliter (ml) is never different from one syringe to another. The volume of an insulin unit is what is different. There is no volumetric standard for an insulin unit. That's why the volume of 1 unit in a U-40 syringe is different from the volume of 1 unit in a U-100 syringe. The concentration of the insulin crystals may be more standardized, but the volume of liquid used to create the insulin varies.
 
Terri and Lucy said:
From everything I've read there is no direct conversion between insulin units and ml/cc because any conversion would be based on the total volume within a syringe. So you'd get a different equivalency for a 100 ml syringe than a 30 ml syringe.
Click to expand...

No, actually, the size of the syringe doesn't matter. The only factor to consider is the markings on the syringe, which depend on whether the syringe is designed for use with a U-100 insulin or a U-40 insulin.

A U-100 insulin contains 100 units of insulin in 1 ml of fluid. So .01 ml of a U-100 insulin = 1 unit of insulin.

A U-40 insulin contains 40 units of insulin in 1 ml of fluid. So .01 ml of a U-40 insulin = 0.4 units of insulin, and 0.025 ml of a U-40 insulin contains 1 unit of insulin.

Consequently, a U-100 insulin syringe has 1 unit marked at the 0.01 ml point, and a U-40 insulin syringe has 1 unit marked at the 0.025 ml point. (A TB syringe is a different beast, and prescribing it for insulin is the sign of a vet who has very little education or experience with diabetes.)

-- Janet
 
I will simply say that this is a long-standing difference in interpretation. My information, that there is no volumetric standard for an insulin unit, came from the chief pharmacist at the North Carolina State Veterinary School. The measurement standard is in the number of crystals (dry measure); the volume can vary--thus the U-40, U-20, etc.

Varying interpretations, some of which agreed with Janet's interpretation, were provided by the pharmacists at BCP, Hocks, and two local veterinarians. If pharmacists and professional vets can't agree on this conversion, I think it's probably a good indicator that we shouldn't accept anything as fact.
 
Well, that is what I gave him this morning, 1U. He is doing ok, I've tested a couple of times today, and updated his spreadsheet.
 
Terri and Lucy said:
There is no volumetric standard for an insulin unit . . . The measurement standard is in the number of crystals (dry measure); the volume can vary--thus the U-40, U-20, etc.
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This is correct.

Terri and Lucy said:
Varying interpretations, some of which agreed with Janet's interpretation, were provided by the pharmacists at BCP, Hocks, and two local veterinarians. If pharmacists and professional vets can't agree on this conversion, I think it's probably a good indicator that we shouldn't accept anything as fact.
Click to expand...

Well, here I disagree. What is fact is that there are people who can't handle numbers. What is also fact is that there is continued confusion of the issue when people refer to "unit" as a measure of volume rather than a measure of insulin crystals. But what I wrote is not a matter of opinion -- either my facts are correct or they aren't, and if they aren't it's because I mistyped. How to measure insulin isn't a matter of opinion. It's basic science -- no wait, it's not even science. It's basic cookbook stuff.

I'd like to propose that we invent a name for the volume ".01 milliliters", which is equivalent to ".01 cc" and "10 microliters". This is the volume of fluid that contains 1 unit of U-100 insulin, 0.4 units of U-40 insulin, 0.25 units of U-25 insulin, and so forth. My personal idea is that this volume should be called an "austin" after the FDMB mascot, but we can discuss this on Think Tank. Then we can avoid use of the term "unit" for a volume.

-- Janet
 
purr-fect Mandy :smile:

btw, did i ever mention that I can't help but think i'm looking at my Mousie when i look at Tigger's picture. :-D
 
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