New to FDMB. Last bottle of Vetsulin, pls advise.

[treehousemom]

Hello. I am a cat mommy to Star. She is a 14 y/o Siamese mix who was diagnosed with FD 2 1/2 years ago. Vet gave her 1 year life expectancy due to other issues. HA! We've passed that and she's doing great!

Star has been on Vetsulin the whole time. We have had MAJOR ups and downs with her FD (could it have been the Vetsulin???) I don't know. The first year of Star's FD was awful. She was crashing every other month, wouldn't eat, etc. etc. I was not home testing and dragging her to vet for BG test was torture for Star Cat.

Finally got to the point where I said she deserves better than this crashing all the time. It was so terrible on both of us (understatement of the year!). I just started researching YouTube for video on how to home test. I figured it out and she doesn't even mind now. It took some time for both of us to get used to, but now she purrs through her ear prick! SHE HAS NOT CRASHED SINCE WE STARTED A YEAR AGO! YEAH MOMMY! I also found a wonderful dry food for her that she will eat every day, all the time, no matter what. Natural Balance.

I also sacrificed our master bathroom and shower. It is now the full time safe place for Star's food/water and litter box. I figured out that when she wasn't feeling well, if the kids (we have three little ones) were nearby playing, or being loud, she would be too nervous to go and eat. This was causing lots of trouble. After sacrificing the master bathroom for her needs (princess kitty!) she simply lays in the sunny spot on our bed and when she needs food, she has a safe quiet place to eat, right around the corner. No more going through the house all the way to the kitchen. We have put rugs and towels down in the shower (walk in, not a tub) so it's warm and cozy for her food dishes. This has made SUCH a big difference for her. Who cares that a family of 5 all have to share one bathroom now. She's worth it!

At a few times in her recent history (about 6-8 months ago) she was getting unusually high levels that I was unable to bring down with dosage adjustments. I asked the vet to give her IV fluids. This worked really well. She got fluids twice, about 2 months apart. After the second time, she has been doing really well ever since.

She is on 2 units twice daily at 12 hours. If she is high or low, I adjust slightly, but basically this is her routine. I can almost tell you what her BG will be by the water and food dish. Empty water: BG is high. Empty food: BG is low. Pretty simple now.

That is a little history on Star Kitty.

My question is regarding switching from Vetsulin.

The Vet is out of it. I have the last bottle in my possession. I am nervous to switch her now that she is finally on a super good plan. Please provide suggestions. I am also concerned about cost. I pay $30 per bottle now. I hear the price is going to triple when I get a different brand. Any thoughts and comments are appreciated.

I want my girl to be healthy and happy for a long time in the future. Thank you so much. Rebecca

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

I have used Lantus for years and have good results with it. If you do switch to Lantus, ask your vet for a script for either the Solostar pens or cartridges. It is considerably more expensive than the Vetsulin, but by using either the pens or the cartridges, you should have very little waste. I have also used BCP PZI with good results. The shelf life of the PZI is much better than the Lantus, so you should be able to use the whole vial. Your vet can also order the first vial free for you at http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/news_bovineinsulin.html.

 

[treehousemom]

Thank you very much. I am not sure what the pens and cartridges are. Are they different from what I've been using? Thank you for the link for the free vial.

 

[OptOut]

Pens and cartridges come in a 5-pack (3 ml each; 15 ml total). A vial is 10 ml. Lantus and Levemir are rumored to lose their potency after about a month (Levemir is rumored to last longer). Many of the Lantus users will toss a cartridge after a month, which is why you want the smaller volume. You can get pretty good prices if you order from Canada (although you will need to submit a prescription)

People really do like Lantus and Lev. I don't know anything about PZI, so I can't compare.

 

[Karen & Smokey(GA)]

Pens/Cartridges are designed for humans to carry around and give insulin with the push of
a button.

But for kitties, you use them like tiny vials. Take off the top and insert a syringe needle into
the little rubber top.

For more details about drawing insulin from a cartridge, visit the Insulin Support Group...Lantus.
One of our forums here on FDMB.

 

[Nancy and Cody]

Chances are good that your vet might start you you on Prozinc, which is FDA approved for cats. I paid $90/10ml vial. It is very stable and could be used until empty (It is a u40 insulin so there are 400 units in a vial)

Lantus and Levemir are U100 human insulins, which some vets have experience with. A 10ml vial will cost over $100 but they have 1000 units of insulin in the vial, so it goes 2.5x longer than the vetsulin, (which was also a u40 insulin). they also come in cartridges or pens, which are less quantity, so they are less likely to go bad before you use them up. The cartridges are more expensive unfortunately. Calling around and using a community Rx discount card has helped us save quite a bit.

I have used a variety of insulins over the years (see our signature) and am now quite happy with Levemir.

Whichever you switch to be sure to come and get advice and help transitioning to the new insulin. All of these insulins have very different actions than the vetsulin did. They all last much longer and have slower onsets and gentler curves than vetsulin,

...so it would be reallllly important for you to learn to test her blood sugar. It is not hard, and will help you find the correct dose. My kitty sleeps through it usually! Also, My vet charged about $95 for a 1 day curve which consisted of about 4 readings. At home I get those readings (and more) for about $1.20...and my kitty isn't stressed out from a day at the vet- (which affects his numbers anyway). You don't need vets permission to test YOUR cat and testing meters are available at drug stores. Walmart sells a good one called the Relion which has inexpensive test strips. People here would be glad to help you learn how.

Good luck!

 

[Patti and Merlin]

WOW - Star sounds like SHE IS the STAR of the family! Yea and congratulations for taking it all upon yourself for learning to hometest!

As you are hometesting - have you ever thought about switching to a canned food diet only - lo carb. Oftentimes that will decrease or possibly even eliminate the need for insulin. We recommend choosing foods off the Janet and Binky food charts that are <10% carbs.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Have you ever had a chance to learn or read how the various insulin's work/respond. You hometest and I wonder if you've ever done a curve on Star where you test every 2 hours. If you have then you know very well how the Vetsulin works in Star. Here is a graph to see how it peaks (usually in 2-4 hrs) and then wears off rather quickly thereafter: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Caninsulin

BCP PZI is a "gentler" insulin in that it tends to peak more at 6 hours and then slowly wear off after that. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/PZI
I do not know enough about the new Prozinc altho it has been said it was to be very similar to the old PZI IDexx which was very much like the BCP PZI. Because my kitty was diagnosed before lantus or levemir was first really being used - this is the insulin I'm most familiar with and I loved it. But I've heard great things about the next 2 insulins.

Lantus or Levemir are what are referred to as basal insulins and are longer acting insulins.
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Lantus
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Levemir

All of these insulins have insulin support groups here on the FDMB that would be willing to help you make that transition if you would like.

I hope these links help you make a decision that works best for your lifestyle and keeps Star so happy.

She is sooooo lucky to have such a wonderful loving family

 

[Karen & Smokey(GA)]

Actually, the pens/cartridges are NOT more expensive than the vial.

A 1000 unit vial of Lantus or Levemir might be $130, but 1500 units in cartridges
(5 x 300 units) might run around $150-$170. The cost per unit with the
cartridges is LESS.

And there is much less waste, since you only open one cartridge at a time, and many
here use it entirely up. Whereas the 10 ml vial can rarely be used entirely, and you
throw a lot away.

 

[treehousemom]

Thank you everyone. I am somewhat overwhelmed with all the choices. nailbite_smile

I will take some time and research the links and options you have given me. My vet has been pretty good through all of this. I hope she will support what decision I make about the insulin. I still have a month to 6 weeks left of Vetsulin, which is why I'm starting research now.

To Nancy & Cody, my original post was really long, so you might have missed it, but I am home testing.

I will be diligent when I change her insulin and take the curve. I have done it as needed with Star.

I will also look into the link about the canned food. I had such a hard time getting her to eat consistently for me, I hesitate to switch, but worth looking into if she may go into remission. Is it possible for her to remiss after 2.5 years? She has other kidney problems, I assume from her diabetes. I also should note, she is not (never has been) over weight. Only 8 or 9 pounds and was much lighter when she developed FD. The vet and I never have figured out what could have caused the onset of FD. Ideas?

Thanks again and I will be checking the other links/ message boards you mentioned. Rebecca

 

[treehousemom]

Here is the analysis from Star's food label, I did not see anything mentioned about carbs:

Natural Balance® Original Ultra® Ultra Premium Dry

Protein minimum 34%
Fat minimum 18%
Fiber maximum 3%
Moisture maximum 10%
Taurine minimum 0.16%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* minimum 0.5%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* minimum 3%

She is doing really well on this food, it is dry. My vet said get high protein, and when I researched this it seemed to have the highest. Also, all natural ingredients. I have even switched our doggie to this brand for canine with great results regarding her skin allergies.

I keep a can of wet food around in case of low numbers, but my other cat will demolish her wet food if I am not watching them.

 

[squeem3]

Here is the analysis from Star's food label, I did not see anything mentioned about carbs:

Natural Balance® Original Ultra® Ultra Premium Dry

You won't find carb info or anything useful on the bag. Pet food manufactureres are not required to put actual nutritional information (like the ones on packages of Human foods) on the cans/bags/pouches/etc :-Q

There is a Natural Balance dry food listed on Binky's chart but I don't know which formula it is: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html The one on the chart has 31% carbs, way way too much for a diabetic cat

She is doing really well on this food, it is dry. My vet said get high protein, and when I researched this it seemed to have the highest. Also, all natural ingredients.

Well, a cat can live pretty well on dry food but it's not the best. http://www.catinfo.org has reasons why dry food causes all sorts of health issues, diabetes included, and why it's not an appropriate diet for any cat.

Human diabetics need to eat a proper diet (low carb, low sugar) to keep their diabetes in control. The same is true for cats.

Low carb food is what you want to feed your diabetic cat. Canned food is the easiest for most people. Some people feed RAW.

Here's the canned food charts: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html There are two, an old one and a new one. On either chart, look for foods that have a number 10 or less in the carb column. No particular brand is "best". Just feed your cat whatever he likes to eat and you can find in the local stores.

Catinfo.org has tips on how to get your cat to eat canned food. Do the food change slowly to avoid an upset tummy.

Before you change the food, learn how to test your cat's blood glucose levels at home. A food change can have a big effect on the blood glucose levels and insulin need. Sometimes just stopping the dry food and feeding low carb canned is enough to drop blood glucose levels to a more normal range and a cat may go into remission.

I keep a can of wet food around in case of low numbers, but my other cat will demolish her wet food if I am not watching them.

All your cats can eat low carb canned food. It's better for them.

For hypos (low blood glucose levels), feed gravy-based or a very high carb canned food. The gravy is usually full of high carb starches that will raise blood glucose levels. Fancy Feast has a couple sliced and grilled varieties that are good. Science Diet is one high carb canned food you can also feed during a hypo.