New to FDMB and diabetes

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Morris&Me

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Hello everyone,

Felinediabetes.com was recommended to me by our new vet.

My big tabby Morris got his diabetes diagnosis recently. Morris is getting started on 3 units of glargine (Lantus) BID and prescription canned food. He barely notices when I administer the injections, so that has taken away some of the dread I had been feeling initially.
What I'm wondering about is his decreased appetite since he started on the canned food.

Is this to be expected since a) he just switched foods, b) he just switched from dry to wet food, and c) is still getting used to set meal times rather than free-feeding? Any input would be much appreciated!
 
I'm so glad your vet referred you to us!

However, I gulped when I saw your dose. Cats (generally speaking) should not ever be started at a dose of 3 units of lantus twice a day...its a pretty heft dose!

The decreased water consumption is good, the decreased appetite is not. Yes, feeding snacks is just fine with lantus.

Where to start..ok, insulin doses should be started low and worked up because it takes time for the body to learn to use it (and lantus builds up in the body, like in a storage shed), and doses should be adjusted slowly based on home testing results. So there is a chance your cat is being OVERDOSED. Further, as he's newly diagnosed and not eating well, you should be checking his urine daily for ketones as they are a nasty side effect you do not want.

There are some great info posts at the lantus insulin support group viewforum.php?f=9

Any other health issues or complications? Any interest in posting your general location incase one of us are local?

Jen
 
Welcome Morris and your person!

You are now in the best place you never wanted to be and will find yourself so blessed to have found.

Couple of quick questions....Do you remember what Morris's blood sugar number was when he was diagnosed? And how they made the decision he was diabetic? Was it from a urine test or a blood test?

Your vet started you on a really good insulin but that is a pretty high starting dose for a newly dxed kitty, so just wondering how they decided on it.

How's Morris acting over all besides just the decrease in drinking? Yes, cats will drink less on a wet canned diet as opposed to being on a dry food diet, they will also drink less when their blood sugar is more regulated. But you also wanted to make sure he is getting enough fluids.

One of the best things you can do for you little guy is to get a glucosmeter and learn to test him at home. Home testing is very easy once you get the hang of it. We simple use the same meter that human diabetics use and prick the edge of their ear to get a little bead of blood to test. That will tell you everything you need to know about how the insulin is or isn't working for Morris and if he is in a safe range to give insulin to in the first place.

Another thing is you don't need to feed him that expensive prescription food, I personally have 11 cats and only one is a diabetic, so everyone eats what my diabetic eats, just good old fashioned Friskies Pate Flavors of canned cat food. My guy Max is currently in remission and diet controlled on it. But you are going to want to be home testing before switching diets, because low carb wet food can really drop their bloodsugar in fact my Max went into remission in 2 weeks after a diet change from dry food to wet low carb canned.

Others should be along shortly to give you a ton of links to read through. But wanted to pop in and say Congrats on being a proud owner of a Sugarcat!!!

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
Hi Me (your name would be helpful, otherwise I'd be writing to myself, and you don't need or want that...), and, of course, you too, sweet Morris,

I'm sorry. I'm a name girl.



I like Morris' vet. Why? Because he/she sent you here!

I am a bit concerned, however, with the 3 units of Lantus BID as a starting dose. Why? Oh, let me count the ways... But, before I start counting, please explain his eating and your feeding him to me. Would that be okay with you, Me? (I definitely have to call you something else, so I'm going to call you Morris's parent, is that okay?)

Morris&Me said:
He has not even eaten a whole can of his new food since I first gave it to him on Tuesday night (15 Mar), and I have yet to give him his evening meal today (17 Mar).
Click to expand...


Maybe I'm missing something here. Has Morris eaten anything or much in the last two days? Please clarify, okay? You've got insulin on board and he needs to be eating. Period.


While, I'm counting the ways because I'm going to hit submit shortly, please feed Morris whatever he wants or is used to. I'll be right back, Morris's parent.

Hugs,
Deb
 
Hi again, Morris's parent, and, of course, you too, sweet Morris,

Uncontrolled diabetes requires a lot of eating. Why? Because uncontrolled diabetes is insatiable. Uncontrolled sugar cats eat because they're feeding diabetes. It's why and how they can seemingly eat so much and yet lose weight.

With insulin, yes, their appetite returns to normalcy. There's also far less drinking. And, you know, whatever goes in goes out, that will decrease too...

My concerns are threefold:

1. His dose.
2. His sudden diet change.
3. Are you home testing?

Hey, I'm usually the gentle one...

Continued hugs, nontheless,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
Hello!

I'm going to chime in with the others who have responded so far, and suggest that 3 units BID is much too high a starting dose. Let me tell you my experiences - perhaps it will help you with your choices of treatment.

When my big boy Porky was initially diagnosed, he was started on 1 unit of Lantus BID at the ER clinic. I was out of town for a week, so he stayed with my vet, who upped his dose to 3 units BID during that week. I continued that dose at home, but found this board, posted, and received lots of good advice to rethink that dose, especially since I had changed his diet to all canned low-carb.

I was initially hesitant - after all, my vet must be right, she's a professional! But, I did eventually decide to lower his dose back to 1 unit BID, and I'm SO glad I did, because it wasn't long before Porky had hypoglycemic numbers (BG<40) and I had to lower his dose! I can only imagine what might have happened if he had still been on the 3 units!

Porky continued down the dosing scale, and he was OTJ (off his insulin) within 1 1/2 months.

I did lots of home testing to monitor his numbers, so I would definitely suggest that as well. And do check out the food links - there are many better choices than the prescription food the vet sells.

Again, this is just my and Porky's story - every cat is different - but perhaps it will give you something to think about.

Good luck with Morris!
 
Morris is a 5- or 6-year-old rescue cat that I adopted almost 2 years ago. I knew he was a bit roly-poly from the get-go, and that he has gained a bit in the last year but his old vet saw him just over a year ago and said he was a decent weight for a stocky male orange tabby (he has enormous front paws – just a big boy).

He seems to be all right, but is lying down a lot. He’ll still tear around after the light-pointer toy. Morris is eating, but only a little bit - mostly at set times, though I did give him a little dollop of the wet food as a snack last night. He ran for his food in the morning too, but still didn’t eat much. I think he just doesn’t like the food - might ask to see if anything else is available.
 
Hi Erin :) I'm in Calgary

Ok, a couple of things...

1. remission is a great goal, but it isn't always achievable and even if it is with Morris, you are going about it with a blindfold on because you are treating with an agressive dose but not testing blood glucose levels at home....very dangerous.

2. with lantus, a cat does not have to be on a strict feeding schedule, you should not be restricting food, and feeding smaller meals is actually better for a diabetic in that it won't overload his system twice a day.

3. we understand reluctance to go against a vet's advice, so we advocate EDUCATION so that you can play an educated role in the decisions.

lethargy isn't good...it could be a normal side effect of the new diagnosis, it could be that he's being overdosed, etc. Again, a lower dose, home testing and monitoring urine ketone levels at home would help take the guesswork out.

Vic and Sundance live in the general area, I will try to flag them

Jen
 
Thanks, Jen, for offering to try and put me in touch with some locals! Thanks also for your earlier referral to the Lantus board. I'll gve it a read tonight.
 
Hi Erin,

I agree with everything said. As Jen said, it will support the pancreas to have several small meals during the day. We free feed wet. I freeze my cans of Fancy Feast in a silicone cupcake pan and then pop them out. They thaw out as the day goes on.

Here is a shopping list for testing:


A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats


It is such a feeling of empowerment to know how the insulin is working and whether it is safe to give the dose you have planned before each shot. We figure we wouldn't get a dose for our 2 legged children and go home and give it for 2 weeks without testing. We do the same for our 4 legged children. And you are right - it wouldn't hurt. Also, you don't need your vet's permission to hometest. We started on our own and at our next vet visit shared our beautiful numbers. It will save you a lot of money to do the curves at home rather than have the cat boarded at the vet for a day. Also, stress raises bg levels and most kitties are definitely stressed at the vet.

Keep reading and asking questions. The Lantus support group will have vital info for you on the way Lantus works.
 
Hi, dear Erin, and, of course, you too sweet Morris,

Thank you for your name. Writing to Me was insane...


I'm going to be painfully honest with you, okay? Painfully for me, now that I know who me is again; yet, hopefully insightful for you.

The FDMB was my first message board experience. I found it after Gizmo was diagnosed Memorial Day weekend, 2003. Took me a week and change and the help of Robert, the webmaster, at the time to log on... Thank you, Robert!

Get a cup of coffee, dear Erin, as this might take me a while... It's about a leap of faith...





I'm beyond relieved Morris doesn't have ketones! YAY! Giz was diagnosed diabetic and DKA in the same breath and spent three days in ICU at the ER hospital.

When Giz came home, we were alone. I listened to every single word her ER vet told me. Don't home test. Don't catch pee. And, here are samples of the new food you must give her. She and a glorious vet tech taught me how to shoot my cat.

Don't get me wrong, Erin. I will always love Giz's ER vet -- forever and a day. She had us come in every single Sunday afternoon at 4:00 for a +6 BG (six hours after her shot) test. She only charged us $18 as a follow-up visit. Normally to walk through those ER doors on that day, it would have been $125 back then... I will always be grateful to Dr. A.

But, somewhere in between Sunday visit 1 and 2, I was able to finally log on to this wondrous Board. And, I started reading, learning, and printing -- and reading and learning some more... And, I finally posted about Gizmo.

I was truly torn. I mean I loved this ER vet who knew so much and was being so financially kind to us. Yet, here were people and cats living in the sugar trenches every single day. Yes, total strangers... Not vets... I was catching pee and testing for ketones within two weeks.

Her ER vet took the news well.

It took me quite a bit longer to home test. One month and 28 days to be exact. Giz was on increasing doses of Humulin N and was miserable. She hated the whole carrier, going to the vet's routine every Sunday. I started wondering if I was doing the right thing by her...

Started taking in my hand-copied BG notes to give to Dr. A. every Sunday. She'd look at them and smile at me, hand them back, and do a leg draw on Giz.

I think it was early August, 2003, when we did yet another dreaded weekly Sunday visit. But, this time, I was packing my meter in one pocket, and test strips in the other. And, when this wondrous vet who I will love forever and a day, took that leg draw, I humbly whipped out my meter and asked for one bead of blood. Dr. A. looked genuinely startled. I'm sure I did, too. But, there was Gizzie... She put a bead of blood on the examining table. Her meter read 495. Mine read 487. She scooped up my BG notes for that week and said, You've taught me a lot.

Giz was cut loose to once-a-month visits for not many months longer. And, I not only changed her dose, but her insulin in the mean time!

This Board has taught me volumes about leaps of faith, dear Erin... And, Giz and I danced for four more years...

Thank you for "listening"...

Much love and countless encouraging hugs for you and Morris,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart and who sent me Nikki!
 
Thank you, Sue and Deb, for replying and for sharing your advice and stories! Nice to "meet" you both.

I'll definitely be keeping notes on Morris' eating/drinking habits. I have started a log for those things, and am recording his behaviour and other observations. He ate pretty well tonight; I mixed in some of his kibble and that seemed to help. He's a bit of a prince, I discovered, since he'll eat as much as I'll give him out of my hand! He was waiting by his bowl when I got home from work today, so I take that to be a good sign.
 
Hi Erin,

Just wanted to welcome you to FDMB - my cat was also recently diagnosed and like you, I was lucky enough to find this place :smile:

Simba is also having eating issues! Grr.

I think I missed your 'general locale' post, but I see you're using mmol/L units so I'm guessing you're in Canada! I'm in Toronto.

I'll look for you on the Lantus board.

Best,
Sarah
 
Hi Erin, welcome to the board! I am pretty much a newbie also but I can tell you that these are the best people in the world and I am eternally grateful for them. I too had a vet that didn't mention home testing although he did start us on 1u of lantus 2x a day. He told me we would go very slow to start. The thing is, most owners are not interested in the work that goes along with really getting a handle on this disease. I think my vet just doesn't want to scare people off? But I persisted and did my spreadsheet and e-mailed him the numbers weekly and guess what? He is really happy with our progress and he trusts what I am doing. I used to feed dry in the morning and wet at night. Now we are all canned all the time. If your baby is used to free feeding, do it. I add water so it doesn't dry out and that helps with water consumption. Others freeze it and leave it out, you do what seems right but he needs to eat. You want to pull it a couple of hours before your night shot and test, but there are a couple of nights I am at school late and can't and we deal with it. You are absolutely in the right place, come over to LantusLand and we will help you out. Oh and I know about the financial thing being a full time student. Keep in mind diabetic supplies sometimes or most times cant be returned so be aware of what you are buying. Sometime the glucometer includes the lancet device so no need to buy another. Make sure you get the correct syringes, with half-unit markings. It will make your life easier, just read carefully before you buy.
 
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