New to Board, DM Male on Lantus

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Lisa and Jynx

Member Since 2011
Hi,

My name is Lisa. My cat, Jynx, is newly diagnosed (6/23/11), and on Lantus. If someone could please look at the below conversation, and advise, that would be great! Thanks for any help/advice that you can give.

I hope that I copied the post correctly from the main forum :)

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49879

Lisa
 
Hi Lisa!!! Your link doesn't work, but I'll go over to health to see if I can find it.

ETA: Here's your link. I'll be right back. I'm going to go read!
 
I'm by no means a dosing expert and, though I've been following this protocol for 4.5 months, there are far more experienced people here than me. I will, however, give you my opinion. First off, AWESOME that you already have a spreadsheet, AWESOME you questioned giving your cat 3u b.i.d. without checking his BGs, and AWESOME you changed his diet to the all wet, low carb. Unfortunately, vets have very little experience in feline diabetes and give bad advice all the time. It doesn't mean they aren't good vets, just that they know next to nothing about feline diabetes. You won't find many people here on the Lantus forum who actually follow the advice of a vet for their cats diabetes care. We follow the protocol and get any advice me need from the very experienced people here (Sienne, Libby, Jill, and a few others). They have never given me bad advice, ever. No one will tell you WHAT to do, but they will tell you what you SHOULD do and let you make your own decision. IMHO, I think you could reduce your dose to 0.25u b.i.d. Lantus is a 12/12 insulin, no matter what your vet tells you. You MUST shoot twice a day, 12 hours apart (or as close to it as possible, but within 15 minutes to a half hour). It is quite possible your Jinx will be one of the lucky kitties who no longer requires insulin once his body adjusts to the fact he is now on a proper diet. I'm sure one of the experienced people will come on and give you even better info!!!

Welcome to LantusLand. You couldn't have found a better place to help you get Jinx better!!!!
 
Thank you, Patty. I'm feeling very unsure of myself with this, as I'm sure most did in the beginning :( I'm still being advised by the vet to skip Jynx's dose tonight, and call tomorrow with #s before proceeding (after I called her this a.m. with my concerns of the high # today, and the SID dosing). I don't mean to sound like I think that my vets aren't good. They are wonderful. I just have a difference in opinion about how Jynx should be treated with this. Of course, I'm not a dr! Thanks, again, for the information, and wonderful site. I was thinking that he might do well on 0.25U BID, also. I'm still unsure what to do.

Lisa
 
Good afternoon, and welcome!! Congrats on trusting your instincts and on putting together the tools you need to get Jynx regulated! Hometesting, smart dosing/shooting and a low carb wet diet are all key to regulation and eventually remission. I too have had problems with vets and their lack of understanding of diabetes and available protocols, but I've never had one discourage home testing.

A few suggestions...
1. Print off the sticky files here in the forum and put them in a binder where you can also keep Jynx's various lab results. There is a wealth of information there and I find it helpful to have it printed so that I can take notes and can easily find info that I need when I need it.
2. It sounds like you have HC food, but just in case you don't have a wide selection, put together a hypo tool kit with karo, foods of different carb percentages. You may have already done this!
3. I agree with Patty that Jynx earned a reduction with the 42. For newly diagnosed kitties (within 1yr of diagnosis), we decrease the dose with any number under 50.
4. I would suggest practicing measuring microdoses. Be sure you're using syringes with 1/2u markings (Walmart's house brand Relion ones are great and only $13/box. ADW also has good options. There are two ways to measure the .25u. You can eyeball halfway between the 0.5u line and the zero line, or you can measure to the 1/2u line, then expel one drop at a time until you can't get anymore out. Then take that number and divide it by two, and that will be 0.25u. Practicing is good, as we like to provide pancreatic support for as long as possible before taking a cat off insulin altogether... it increases the chances that the pancreas will be fully healed and that the remission will hold long term. We will decrease doses by shaves, so if 0.25u is 3 drops for you, the next decrease would be to 2 drops, then to 1 drop.
5. Pick up some low carb treats for Jynx and give him one each time you do an ear poke. If he's already a mostly willing participant, he'll be enthusiastic in now time. Purebites freeze dried chicken breast is a popular choice, though I get mine in the dog food aisle... same product, but larger packaging and better cost per ounce.

As for your vet visit Monday, I'd suggest printing off the protocol here as well as the citations (or, if as a vet tech, you can actually print the article, even better!) and the Queensland dosing protocol. Be respectful of your vet's opinion, but be firm in your insistence that you have found an approach that is supported by published research in reputable publications, has an extremely strong forum for online support, and is what you believe is the best choice for your cat. Jynx's treatment is ultimately your responsibility and your decision. Don't let your vet, no matter how well-meaning, take that away from you. Reading and studying the stickies this weekend should give you everything you need to be the best possible advocate for Jynx's care.

Please continue to ask questions as you have them! Things are typically quiet on weekend afternoons, but I'm sure you'll get lots more input this evening. This forum and this approach has been a godsend for my cat Willie, who is 15, also suffers from pemphigus, and yet somehow is happier and healthier than he's been for a decade. I truly owe it all to the wonderful people here who have been so generous with their support.

I look forward to learning more about you and Jynx both!!
 
I'm happy to hear about your kitty! I'm glad that he is doing so well! I'll be offline for most of the day/evening (celebrating a milestone b-day with my family/friends! Just hope I can relax a bit!!). Thanks for the invaluable info. I'll let you know how things go. Have a nice weekend :)

Lisa
 
Welcome, Lisa.

Congrats for getting your SS up and running and starting to home test. Your vet is a bit behind the times when it comes to her approach to home testing. This is now considered the standard of care by the American Assn of Animal Hospitals in their 2010 report on diabetes management. They also consider PZI and Lantus the preferred types of insulin.

It certainly seems like Jynx may be benefiting from a low carb diet. As the others suggested, I would reduce your cat's dose to 0.25u and keep shooting BID. Also, please make sure to test during the PM cycle. Many cats experience lower numbers at night so the PM tests are important.

Again, as others have suggested, please familiarize yourself with the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board. They describe our dosing protocol and provide an overwhelming amount of information about managing your cat's diabetes. I'm also attaching the journal article that is the formal, peer-reviewed and published version of the protocol that we use. This article may be something you want to bring with you to your vet appt. on Monday. FWIW, my vet thinks I test too much. We agree to disagree! She also lets me manage Gabby's diabetes.
 

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Congratulations on taking the first active steps forward and choosing to be a participant in your feline's care.

I can tell you from my own experience, sometimes a good vet will hesitate at new information. Some will not want to deal with it at all. I've had both in Atlas's time. His shelter vet was all for it and proud I was his foster mom. Our normal vet balked, but at least she admitted honestly it was beyond her skills. And as a one woman office...beyond her time. At first I was mad at her, but over time I have come to appreciate her honesty with me.

We have since found an office that has fully embraced our treatment regime and even asked to "plagiarize" the documentation provided from right here. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they are not following along and reading along here in the Lantus Forum. :smile:

So take the information from here to discuss with your vet. My vet didn't know this existed and have been thrilled to have me walk through their practice's door. Not all will be like that, but you won't know until you speak up.

psstt....they called me DR. the last time we were in.... :lol:
 
Hi Lisa: just a warm Lantus Land welcome to you and Jinx. You've done a lot for him by just coming here and you've gotten some great suggestions from members of our LL family.

Please ask lots of questions. We are here to help and support you.
 
Hi Lisa & Jynx, Just dropping by to say WELCOME! This is the place to be and it's great that you already have a spreadsheet and are up and running. Most of us have had similar experiences with our vets. Some of them have come around, others not. But even if your vet is one of the ones who doesn't, you will find a wealth of information and support here. Feline diabetes is something all of us deal with 24/7.
Jynx is a beautiful kitty. We're glad you found this board.

Ella & Rusty

p.s. Happy Birthday!
 
Welcome Lisa and Jynx! I am relatively new as well and I can say that the support and advice I have received here has been invaluable to me and my kitty, Morgaine.

Morgaine was diagnosed in May 2010 and as soon as I changed her diet to low carb, wet food, she went into remission. She didn't start insulin until June of this year when I noticed her BGs rising so it is possible for some kitties to be diet controlled and/or to need insulin for a while and then go into remission. The people here know a great deal about how to help make remission possible.

You are doing great!

I have had 2 vets who have not been totally supportive, especially of the intense home testing. The article referenced upthread by Sienne is excellent. I just downloaded it and printed it out myself.

Good luck and know that the FDMB and its members are here for you. I have always gotten the help I have needed in a timely manner. There is lots of info in those stickies as well so read as much as you can and print out the important procedures like how to handle lows so you have them handy.
 
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