new ProZinc vial -- clumping

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Donna & Buddha

Donna & Buddha

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I decided today was the day to break out the new vial of ProZinc. I pulled the box out of the meat drawer where's its been for the past couple of months (thought having a back up vial on hand was a good idea.) I pulled the vial out of the box, and the noticed that the insulin had separated. When I rolled the vial gently, the liquid became cloudy, but I can see clumps at the bottom.

Does that mean no good, don't use or continue to roll gently? Did it likely freeze? I think my fridge runs cold.
 
Terry--that's really good advice. I'd thought of calling my vet, but didn't think it warranted a Sunday phone call. I just tried Boehringer, too and their hours are Monday-Friday 7 am-6 pm, CST. So.

I'm sure I didn't inspect the insulin after I bought it because I was surprised today when I noticed the vial had a red cap. When I just checked the new vial again, it had separated again, but mixed with fewer clumps. Vetsulin used to separate, but my first bottle of ProZinc never has.

There's still a bit left in the old vial, but some days Buddha has good reaction to it, and somedays not. I was wondering if it was losing potency.
 
"Floaties" are not good. Thought I'm not calling what you have floaties - I've never seen floaties so...

Anyway, the meat drawer is usually the coldest place in the fridge. I believe insulin is supposed to be kept at 40F. I used a [wireless] thermometer to calibrate the place where I keep the insulin.

Calling BIV is the first thing I thought of too.
 
My candy thermometer says the meat drawer is the same temp as the top shelf where I keep the Prozinc I use. (Which is closer to 30 than to 40). I've got the fridge at a "warmer" setting. I've got a big household and there's lots of traffic through the fridge, not sure where else is safe. I'll try the thermometer in the door, I guess.

I replaced the fridge last summer cause the old one didn't stay cold in the summer, though at 42 degrees it was probably perfect for the insulin, just not so good for everything else.
 
Candy thermometers are usually for high temps? Like VERY high temps?

You might try making a slushy with a bunch of broken up ice in a glass of water to try to make something as close to 32F as possible then stick that thermometer in and see what it read just to double check. It should be mostly broken up ice and just a small amount of water to make it flow a little. This is the way to calibrate thermometers for the low end usually. Of course on the higher end is to boil water and make sure it reads 212F but you don't care about the higher end for this.

Yes, 40F it is a bit frustrating for food [I feel ya] but it is what it is....

Anyway, then you'll be able to have a good conversation with BIV about it you got it too cold or not.
 
Thermometer reads from 0 to 220. Ice water registers at 20. I have old fashioned mercury people thermometers or meat thermometers but that's all.

Sigh. I hate to throw out a $100 vial. Hope the company cuts me a break.
 
Donna & Buddha said:
Thermometer reads from 0 to 220. Ice water registers at 20. I have old fashioned mercury people thermometers or meat thermometers but that's all.

Sigh. I hate to throw out a $100 vial. Hope the company cuts me a break.
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If it is bad, I bet they will, being new and all. STill, seems like it shouldn't be clumping like that not being opened. It sure shouldn't freeze at anything above freezing.
 
"Candy" thermometers usually are for higher temps than that [220].

Is this the tall type that has the red dye in it that runs up the column or is it the round perhaps "fast read" type that perhaps has a small nut on the under of the dial that connects the dial with the probe? If it is the round type with the nut you can actually adjust the nut/dial so that ice slushy reads 32F and also hopefully BOILING water reads 212.
 
OK, candy thermometer isn't the best description for what I have. It's one of these: http://www.shopworldkitchen.com/index.a ... 0950230109

I don't make candy, but it's been adequate for keeping yeast and yogurt culture happy.

I haven't had icy food, either from the meat drawer or the shelf, so I'm beginning to feel confident that it wasn't my fault. Seems like a good attitude to have before talking with BIV tomorrow.

Hey, Gator, did I read elsewhere that you were calling Purina to get the skinny on Friskies? They make Fancy Feast too, and those breakdowns need to be updated too ...

Wonder how to go about lobbying the fda to require carb count on cat food packaging ...
 
Donna & Buddha said:
OK, candy thermometer isn't the best description for what I have. It's one of these: http://www.shopworldkitchen.com/index.a ... 0950230109

I don't make candy, but it's been adequate for keeping yeast and yogurt culture happy.

I haven't had icy food, either from the meat drawer or the shelf, so I'm beginning to feel confident that it wasn't my fault. Seems like a good attitude to have before talking with BIV tomorrow.
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Yes that is a "fast read" and you should be able to adjust it by turning the dial and nut under it separate from each other. VERY important it you cook to have your thermometers calibrated [OK I'm a bit of a detail freak].

Donna & Buddha said:
Hey, Gator, did I read elsewhere that you were calling Purina to get the skinny on Friskies? They make Fancy Feast too, and those breakdowns need to be updated too ...
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Well I would call them but Molly did not respond with what flavors she is feeding so.... I offered my help to Rebecca [the webmaster] because in a sticky in health and other forums she was wanting help with just this very thing [Fancy Feast] and I have a bit of experience with dealing with getting the real info from the food companies and I heard nothing back from her. I've also submitted a lot of new info to Janet [that took me way too much energy/time to obtain] which has never made it into her tables.... I can only do so much, ja know what I mean?... :roll:

But I can help you call yourself and get the right info and convert it or since you guys are having wonky numbers I'll do it myself if you think you can't handle it. Janet has basic instructions on how to so it here:
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/foodfaq.html
If my cat were having wonky numbers, I'd definitely be getting down the the bottom of the food picture to rule that one out. For myself I did not even trust J&B's Wellness or many of the others numbers to be current/correct so I called and got the info myself [the Wellness numbers in her table are correct as of about 9 months ago]. But as I said, I'm a little detail crazy. But if I'm putting something into H, you better darn well bet I know EXACTLY what I'm putting into him.

Donna & Buddha said:
Wonder how to go about lobbying the fda to require carb count on cat food packaging ...
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Go for it, I'm up to my ears in charity/fix-the-world work at the moment. :smile: And it's not so much the carb content that's important as the REAL "As Fed" or "Dry Matter" analysis of the food - not the "Guaranteed Analysis" that's a waste of space on the packaging. It's so frustrating when you call these companies too because you invariably get some person on the phone that will swear on their mother's grave that they are giving you the as fed or dry matter analysis and they are actually giving you the guaranteed analysis. It takes a lot of work and truth seeking [and one absolutely has to verify the numbers you get against the guaranteed analysis to make sure you are not getting duped]. Grrrrr. How about a law against stupid people?

Some companies are better than others, Wellness and Holistic Select [both the same company now] have been a couple of my favs to deal with. One more reason I'm fairly loyal to the Wellness food [even though I wish the fat content of their GF Turkey and Chicken was not so high, but I mix in the home cooked to fix that].
 
I'm hesitant to adjust my thermometer, it's good at what I need it to be good at. I'd hate to mess that up. But thank you, I didn't know it could be adjusted.

I know Buddha's bg is just crazy. But, my take on it is this, in regards to food: if I am consistent in what food I offer (and I am, mostly) and in timing (not as good) and in quantity (this is almost spot on), then x amount of insulin should work the same from day to day. So if fancy feast chopped grill (ff CG) has 2 or 3 or 4 or 8 carbs isn't so important, as long as it reliably contains the same amount. It would become more important if I wanted to switch it out with another variety, say fancy feast beef feast, and I wanted to be confident that it had identical protein/fat/carb levels.

But I remain skeptical that 1) the cat food companies have the data that the J&B chart wants, and 2) that quality control at the manufacturing plant produces absolutely uniform products lot to lot.

But I'm maybe just making excuses to be lazy.
 
1) They do have the info!! Even if they have not had the food analyzed the manufacturer of most canned food [Menu Foods in Canada] creates an "as fed" and "dry matter" "CLAIM SUBSTANTIATION" for the food companies with data that is calculated from the nutrient profiles of the constituent items in the food. Menu Foods makes Wellness canned food and I wouldn't be surprised if they made Purina canned food. Canning food is a tricky process - this is why only a very small number of places do it. The food companies have to be able to design their foods somehow [they just don't throw a bunch of ingredients in a pot and hope for the best!]. One excellent source for this data is the USDA SR-21 database. For instance 100g of stewed boneless skinless chicken breast has 28.98g of protein on average and so on for each ingredient. These averages are strikingly similar for the American database and the Dutch database which give some credence to their accuracy and utility. Some of the companies [especially the larger ones] do have their food analyzed to make sure that the nutrients fall within certain parameters. The SR 21 database is how I know the nutrient profile of the Home Cooked I make H and it turns out raw chicken with bones is not in the database so this one of the reasons I'm not big on the raw diets often promoted on this board.

2) Quality control has very little to do with what the average nutrient profile of a chicken breast is. And I bet the quality control they have would surprise you. When is is all said and done it is just a matter of sticking to the recipe which is x lbs of such-and-such ingredient and x lbs of such-and-so ingredient. Part of the likely reason the recommended max carb level is low [9% as %Kcal] is to hopefully give headroom for the natural variance in nutrients from one pot of chicken breast to another etc. Dry food is a completely different matter as there are many different manufactures of it and it is not so tricky to make. This is one of the problems with dry food.

So no excuses for being lazy now!!! lol ;-)

Hey if you can make it though life with a thermometer that is off by 12 degrees at freezing then I'm all for that. I think I might have a conniption fit over it if it were my thermometer but as I said I'm a little freakish when it comes to the details.
 
Just thought I would add my 2 cents to the discussion:

Donna-
The thermometer you are using is best used when taking the temp of a substance, not the 'air' in the fridge. I understand you don't want to re-calibrate it, and that should be fine (just remember it is reading approx. 12 degrees colder). What you want to do is take the temp of a food or liquid that is stored in the same zone of the fridge.
What I suggest is this:
Stick the probe of the thermometer into a piece of food that is in the meat drawer (make sure the probe is completely covered by the food 3/4 of the way up to the top because the very tip often doesn't have the most sensitive area of the probe. Make sure you are testing a food/liquid that has been in the fridge for at least 8 hrs to ensure the temp is accurate and not affected by other influences like cooking/cooling or the temp variances from the grocery store's coolers.
If you only have things like cold cuts or other hard to temp items--you can fill a ziplock bag with cool h2o and store it there overnight and then take the temp to get a more accurate number. Just remember to insert the probe all the way into the liquid to get an accurate reading! (you can also 'fold' the bag around the thermometer to get a relatively accurate reading)

Hope this helps!
 
Jen--thanks for the suggestion. I store the insulin that we use on the top shelf, where it sits next to yogurt. I'll take the yogurt's temp in the morning. That will amuse the kids.

I called BIV Monday morning. The support person said that settling with long term storage wasn't a big deal and that as long as the clumps came apart, that it should be fine. If I had problems or concerns I should just take the vial back to the vet, and the vet would replace it.

I had the ProZinc out of the fridge a few times and rolled it gently on Sunday. Each time the clumps were smaller. On Monday morning after gently rolling (while on the phone with BIV) the clumps all dissipated. I was brave enough to use it on Tuesday morning. The rubber piece leaked after the first puncture. But the insulin seems to have similar action as the last vial. The cloudy stuff still settles to the bottom between uses.

So I guess all is good. Seems like with Vetsulin that a vial would either settle or stay cloudy between uses. Wonder why.

Has anyone ever looked at the insulin under a microscope? Can you tell that way if its good or not? Would it require a high power microscope or just a regular kids one?
 
Microscope? - now that's "detail" oriented! ;-)

I do the [non-aggressive] "hourglass" with PZI a few times - and roll it if I want. If one comes from Vetsulin, PZI is more able to take "abuse." My last bottle of PZI Vet lasted me 9+ months despite being left out multiple overnights and dropped multiple times. Tough as nails that PZI.

Yes, it ABSOLUTELY separates and will have a thinner layer of white on the bottom, this is completely normal. This is why you need to roll it.

I would think the best way to tell if it is good is to shoot it and see if it work or not? Kind of like finding out of a microwave works on not - just try to use it.

Good to hear the clumps got worked out. You will probably not be the last person to experience clumps and this info will come in handy.

Jen, sounds like we have another cook in the house who knows her thermometers? I recently got a Thermapen and I don't know how I lived before without it [I just realized they've introduced a new model nailbite_smile ].
 
Donna & Buddha said:
Jen--thanks for the suggestion. I store the insulin that we use on the top shelf, where it sits next to yogurt. I'll take the yogurt's temp in the morning. That will amuse the kids.
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I can't wait to hear what the yogurt's temperature is! :)
 
Donna-
I'm laughing at the mental image of the science experiment with strawberry yogurt and the kids!! Just a little tip--stir the yogurt really good before taking the temp (the outside and middle temp can vary a little, if you get picky about it!)

Gator-Its my profession! I own a restaurant and before that I performed inspections for 65 of our franchises in the area!! I think over the years I have probably done tens of thousands of temp checks:) Food safety questions--I'm your girl! One of my fave thermometers was an infared gun--but you couldn't use it while the food was still on the grill/pot-but it was quick and convenient for holding temps. The one you have is a good one! I have an array of thermometers at my restaraunt, but the other week I realized I still don't have one at home :oops: Guess I'll have to poach one from work!
 
Wow, we're really rackin' up the useful professions here in PZI Land! A vet, a restaurant owner, mechanic-type (even if she did defect to LL)...all we need is a masseur (maybe a masseuse, too, for Gator), an accountant, a lawyer, and a travel agent, and we're set!
 
Sarah and Buzz said:
Wow, we're really rackin' up the useful professions here in PZI Land! A vet, a restaurant owner, mechanic-type (even if she did defect to LL)...all we need is a masseur (maybe a masseuse, too, for Gator), an accountant, a lawyer, and a travel agent, and we're set!
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Kind of like a little Gilligan's Island of diabetic cats and their owners - lol the image of a bunch of people & their diabetic cats stuck on an island cracks me up. Or maybe Survivor - FDMB? lol Ele's a fellow MBA, not sure if her specialty was accounting though [mine wasn't and SILL get debit and credit messed up lol]. Among other things, I'm a travel agent too...
 
Survivor: FDMB!! Hahaha!

I can see the challenges now: Who can test their cat's BG the quickest? Holding a full dish of soupy wet cat food, who can make their way through a mess of meowing, hungry kitties the quickest without spilling any food? Who can stumble through household objects (lamps, coffee tables, cat toys, etc) in complete darkness to get to the BG meter without stubbing a toe/cracking a shin?

And cool, we can check accountant and travel agent off our list. We're doing great!
 
Sarah and Buzz said:
Wow, we're really rackin' up the useful professions here in PZI Land! A vet, a restaurant owner, mechanic-type (even if she did defect to LL)...all we need is a masseur (maybe a masseuse, too, for Gator), an accountant, a lawyer, and a travel agent, and we're set!
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Can't help you with those, but I'm an optician and a writer. One is a tad more useful than the other, though :)
 
Gator & H said:
Kira & Max said:
Can't help you with those, but I'm an optician and a writer. One is a tad more useful than the other, though :)
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Kira, can you PLEASE write me off this crazy island?! LOL
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I could, but would you like where I sent you next? I write mystery & horror.
 
To add to the list:
Elle-my DH is also a CPA, I was a professional bartender thru college, (anyone want a killer margarita recipe?) and I got my undergrad degree in psychology!
So, we can build a 'tax shelter' for our island--and when everyone gets 'catty' with each other I can pour some drinks and do a round of group therapy!!!
 
Kira & Max said:
I could, but would you like where I sent you next? I write mystery & horror.
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The plot thickens.... Just my luck! This is precisely suitable to the gallows humor I've seem to fallen into lately. :lol:
 
I really want a killer margarita recipe! I have a good (great, IMHO) guacamole recipe to go along with it.

An optician! That's perfect. I've been needing some help seeing the small doses of insulin...
 
Sarah and Buzz said:
I really want a killer margarita recipe!
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1 oz fresh squeezed lime juice
1 oz Cointreau
2 oz agave tequila
Shaken over ice and served straight up [I prefer in a Riedel Martini glass]

If that doesn't knock your socks off it will at least have you swingin' from the chandeliers.
 
Ok, so I'm officially useless on the island (programmer) but maybe I could be a McGyver/Professor crossover and make radios out of coconuts (an excuse to hang near Jen at the bar.)

Gator - How'd you get my college margarita recipe? My friends gave out warnings at our parties to only drink 1 of anything I made ;-)
 
Hope and Aria said:
Ok, so I'm officially useless on the island (programmer) but maybe I could be a McGyver/Professor crossover and make radios out of coconuts (an excuse to hang near Jen at the bar.)

Gator - How'd you get my college margarita recipe? My friends gave out warnings at our parties to only drink 1 of anything I made ;-)
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Programmers aren't useless! Who else will fix FDMB when it goes down, or add cool new toys, like a recipe index? :) Plus, radios out of coconuts are a must. As are bras made out of coconuts. I mean, you have to plan ahead on this kind of stuff.
 
I make margaritas with frozen Limeade concentrate, tequila, and triple sec (is that what Cointreau is?). See: "I'm not that classy" above. ;) However, they are really tasty.
 
Cointreau is an orange flavored liquor, and a must for any bar!! It is also handy for a fabulous cosmo!!

This one comes from Alton Brown and is some extra effort--but worth it!! Or, you can do it like I often do--a shot of patron (no training wheels)!! Gets every party started in a hurry!!

* 2 ounces 100 percent agave silver/blanco tequila, divided
* 1 tablespoon kosher salt
* 4 limes, divided
* 1/2 small Hamlin or Valencia orange
* 2 tablespoons light agave nectar
* 3/4 cup ice cubes, about 3 to 4

Directions

Pour 1/2-ounce of the tequila into a small saucer. Spread the kosher salt in a separate small saucer. Dip the rim of a martini or other wide rimmed glass into the tequila. Lift out of the tequila and hold upside down for 10 seconds to allow for slight evaporation. Next, dip the glass into the salt to coat the rim. Set aside.

Halve 2 of the limes, cut a thin slice for garnish from 1, and set aside. Juice the halved limes into the bottom of a Boston-style cocktail shaker. Cut the remaining 2 limes and the orange into quarters and add them to the juice in the shaker. Add the agave nectar to and muddle for 2 minutes until the juices are release. Strain the juice mixture through a cocktail strainer into the top of the shaker and discard the solids.

Return the juice to the bottom of the shaker, add the remaining 1 1/2 ounces of tequila and any remaining on the saucer. Add the ice to the shaker, cover and shake for 30 seconds. Strain the mixture through a cocktail strainer into the prepared glass, garnish with reserved lime slice, and serve immediately.


I once wore a coconut bra for haloween (in my younger days!) It wasn't as much fun as it sounded like it would be! haha
Gator--luv the recipe-its the perfect non-pretentious magrarita! Any suggestions on an island that would accept all us crazy cat people?!?
 
Wow, that is quite a recipe! I will definitely try it out this summer for a backyard party. Thanks! :)

As for the island, I think anything not featured on "Lost" is a good choice. ;)
 
What a morning Wake-Up call! LOLOL...I went directly to the end of this thread to work my way up, and lo and behold, we are talking cocktails!!!!!! LOLOL...My kind of peoples! I will celebrate with you all, I am doing Champagne Cosmos ( equal parts Champagne and Citron Vodka, splash of cranberry juice, splash of Grand Marnier, of course, in a martini glass or crystal of choice)...Cheers! drinking24
 
Donna--
Sorry we sorta hijacked your thread into a gilligan's island drinking game!! How did your am science experiment go with the yogurt? Did the kids enjoy it?
 
You guys are a great diversion! BTW I'm a retired PT and give a great massage, so the masseuse is covered.... :cool: I'm all set to run off to an island!

My last vial of Prozinc sat in the fridge a few weeks before I needed it, at close to 40 degrees (old fashion thermometer). And when I pulled it out it had one big clump floating around in it. I freaked out, started rolling it and after awhile it disappeared. When I started using it, it worked noticeably better than the last vial.

So... we learn about Prozinc.
 
Gator: Haha, you make me laugh. :)

Terry: Sounds like a great recipe!

Donna: I had no idea coconuts could be used as chew toys. I learn something new every day.

So are we only missing a lawyer from the list? My aunt and uncle are both lawyers, and my cousin is graduating from law school in a couple of months, so in a pinch, we could contact them on the radio Gator'll rig up when we get to the island. Yippee for a masseuse who is ready to escape to an island. :) Thanks, Nancy!
 
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