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Vness79

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So today was a sad day for me.....My 12 year old cat was diagnosed with diabetes today. He has had problems his whole life it seems. He was diagnosed with crystals at a young age, and has been on a prescription food since he was about 1-2 years old. He has been back and forth from Hills S/D and Hills S/O. He has had random flare ups throughout his life. I do what I can to control it. Now with this, just makes it harder for me. He was put on insulin today and had his first shot. I am working on only feeding him certain times so I can give him his shot twice a day. I was reading stuff online about all this and it all seems so overwhelming. I did notice that one of the things that the article I read says is to switch to can food, but here's my dilemma, I have another cat in the house who is on the same food, not because he has the crystal problem, but because it was easier to feed them the same food than feeding them two seperate foods. Also I have two dogs in my household....rather big dogs at that. Everyone in the house gets along with each other, and im certain that it keeps my sick one exercised. I'm just kinda nervous about switchin both of them to can food. Im sure dry food is good, since I cant just give him regular food, but he is use to having his fod available to him all day, now to only feed him twice a day and pull it away after hes done, im worried for the other cat. They say the first few days are the hardest and Im worried about how im taking care of this....any suggestions for me? I cant seem to stop thinking about this, im constantly checking on him to make sure hes still breathing....seems extreme but Im really worried for him.
Any comments or concerns would be greatly appreciated. ive been told this forum is a great way to get through this.....please help!!
Vanessa and (Nabisco) nailbite_smile
 
Welcome Nabisco! cat_pet_icon I had a similar issue, Curt was switched to canned food, the other cats were on dry and the canned made them sick, had to fight the dog from eating Curts food, the other cats wouldnt eat at all.. it was a MESS lol. Ended up having to feed Curt in the closet by himself with the door closed, but it was all worth it, he is only a month past diagnosis and he is already off insulin with blood glucose values now under 100!! A lot of diabetic kittys can be diet controlled, so get off that dry food and home test often to see where your kittys BG values are. This will help prevent hypos and let you see how he is responding to the insulin and whether or not his dose needs to be adjusted. I know my vet told me I didnt have to home test, and I would have a dead cat if I hadnt. Soon after I started insulin and changed over to wet food his BG levels lowered gradually over a period of several days, and shooting insulin at those numbers would have killed him for sure! It will also give you peace of mind so you dont have to keep checking if he's still breathing or not.
 
Welcome to the best place to be for you and Nabisco! cat_pet_icon The folks here are super friendly and share their day in and day out won knowledge to help us help our kitties. :-D In a lot of cases, we end up learning more about treating our babies than many vets. Vets can be great, just not as knowledgeable since they don't deal with this day in and day out. :-D (In other words, it's ok to disagree with your vet if it's in the best interest for your kitty. ;-) )

What insulin are you using?

Changing food to a low carb really is your best bet. However...do not do so until you are home testing since you are already giving insulin! Very important! Many kitties BGs drop dramatically when switched to low carb. Home testing helps you know where Nabisco's BGs are so you can dose accordingly (and avoid the danger of giving too much insulin, causing hypos - bad thing!).

So, first get set up to home test. You can either click on the icon up top to order a newbie kit, or pop by your pharmacy to pick up a meter, strips, and lances (get the smaller number 25-27 as they work best when learning) to get started. Post here when you start so folks can help you learn. (Note on meters - the strips are the expensive part as they are consumable. Many here use the Wal-Mart Relion as the strips are least expensive. Stay away from meters with True in the name, and avoid the Freestyle for now - they have an issue with their strips.)

You have the option of switching the food for one or all. I found it best, given everything I learned about foods, to switch both my kitties to the low carb wet (I have a link to Janet and Binky's food list in my signature). Anything <10 carbs is good, many aim for <7 carbs. This can be done gradually or quickly, determined by your kitties wishes. And you know they have their own ways of doing things. :lol: Note, there is no need to feed expensive prescription food. Most don't have low enough carbs and there are better and less expensive choices on the open market. :-D

Welcome again, and let us know how we can help you help Nabisco. :-D
 
Lantus or Levemir are the best insulins to use if you wish to continue free feeding your cats.

It will be better if you change them both the low carb wet but as Teresa said, since Nabisco is on insulin already do not change the diet until you start home testing or there is potential for him to hypo.
 
:smile:
I want to say, waking up this morning to take care of Nabisco was nice, after reading all your helpful posts, made feeding him and giving his shot easier. Thank you all....
I do have some questions for everyone starting with the home testing....

My father is also a diabetic, so doing the home strips is nothing new to me, but how should i do it with a cat? do I take it from his paws? ears? Im not quite sure how the best way to do so is. The vet said that if I would take it from different spots then I would get a different reading, but so far from what I can gather, you guys seem to do it well. Whats your secret? I will go out and buy the strips today and im sure my father will let me have one of his many machines for him, for he loves Nabisco almost as much as I do.

Second, as I stated before he is on a prescription food, been on it for many, many years. I can NOT change his food, i have tried many times throughout his life to see what food is best for him and his crystal problem. Any time I have switched food on him, it has caused flare ups....i.e. bloody urine, painful urination, and most times he is unable to urinate and all things have him ending in the ER. When he started get overweight I asked if there was ANY food I can switch him to, hopefully a diet prescription for his issue, and unfortunatly they do not make a low carb food for it. I have instead changed his dosages. (the bag suggest he gets 1 3/4 cup a day and for over at least 7 years he gets just under a cup) Trust me it was a lot of experimenting to get this dosage and it works. He has stayed steady at 15lbs for that long. I have actually been praised by the vet for how well i managed his weight for so long under this food. Whenever he has a flare up I have to feed him the S/O, which desolves the crystals and once thats maintained he goes back to the S/D to maintain his PH levels. He has NOT had a flare up in over 5 years, which for him is amazing! I am ok with switching to wet if need be, just hope he goes for it. lol The thing that concerns me is everyone is telling me to get off the high carb food, but that is NOT an option for me. All the info I am reading about the food, there is never an exception to his condition, and it confuses me to what I should do.

The insulin he is on is Lantus, and they have me giving him 1 unit, 2x a day, every 12 hours after he eats. I decided to stick with 7am and 7pm, for with my work schedule works best for me to make sure I'm always here to give him his medication. Last night was his first and this morning he took it even better, just laid there and let me do it, even gave me a quick lick on the cheek after I was done. Put a smile to my face I tell ya lol. Although I have checked on him 3x since the shot was given (about 35 min ago), but thats just me being a worry wart.

I appreciate all the help, it does give me a solid piece of mind that he will be ok. In less than one day I have noticed that even tho my diabetic father and cat have a lot in common, its still very different and all yous giving me advice puts me at ease knowing that I CAN do this.
Thanks again
Vanessa and Nabisco


also somthing I forgot to mention, Nabisco's weight has gone down to 9.8lbs which is why I had him checked out to begin with so he is no longer at 15lbs. and also cause hes gone years at just having his food at the ready for him, is there a safe way to feed him like that and still only give him shots 2x a day or picking his food up everytime the best way to go?
 
Good morning Vanessa & Nabisco, and welcome!

Grayson was accustomed to free-feeding Kitt-N-Kaboodle until he was diagnosed last month. He now gets fed his Fancy Feast Classics on a table (where he used to NEVER be allowed), up from easy access of the dogs, and away from his fellow kitties in the house. Fortunately, I have an old house, so each room has a door! The others still feed from "the trough" on the other side of the door, but at certain times... then the plates are picked up and the meal is over. It was a little confusing to everyone at first, but they seem to have gotten the hang of it. And I've learned to sweep up their crumbs (or let the dogs do that), so Gray doesn't find them when he returns to full run of the house w/ all his buddies.

Something else I did for MY convenience was pick up some Pyrex bowls w/ lids for him, as he wasn't finishing the food and I was tired of washing a bazillion of plates and a thousand ziplock bags!

The concept of changing everyones' diet would have been cost prohibitive (I have an army), but by feeding him separately and establishing a schedule for the other guys, the food change wasn't a big blip in my budget.

Good luck and keep everyone tuned in to your progress!

Lu-Ann
 
Venessa,
You can home test Nabisco, plenty of youtubes you can watch and just about everyone on this site tests their cat's BG. Just a poke on the tip of the cat's ear will get you a drop of blood for testing.
Human diabetics would never give themselves shots without testing their BG first, and we pretty much feel the same about our cats.... better safe than sorry.

For food, it's better for keeping BG level through the day with several small feedings, or free feeding. Again, human diabetics do not eat just 2 meals a day with nothing in between, and they usually test and have small snacks to keep their BG adjusted. Many people use auto-feeders as they can ration out the food intake to equal times in the day.

I am sure that if you could state the exact health issues Nabisco has, I am willing to bet that lots of people here can give you much healthier, and lower carb food alternatives that will deal with the health issues, and also keep Nabisco's BG numbers down with the less carbs. All dry food has to go, definitely, as it will be just about impossible to get BG levels regulated with the dry/high carb food in the picture. One of my cats will have her BG soar up into the 400s if she gets just a few pieces of dry food as she is very carb sensitive. The vet rx food, as much as the vet says it's the best, is not the best.

Right now, you know of no alternative to the present diet for crystals/flares, but let's see what the others here who have the same issues with their diabetic cats are feeding. You may be pleasantly surprised that there are a few alternatives, but for now, starting the home testing to see just how well the insulin is working, and knowing if his dose does need adjusting up to accommodate his current diet.
 
While I have no experience thankfully with a cat that has crystal problems, I can address free feeding wet food to a multi-cat household...you see there are 14 cats here as well as a large 97lb dog.

Out of that 14 cats one is a foster momma cat with 2 nursing kittens, 11 non-diabetics (ages 1 1/2yrs to 17yrs) that are ours and 2 diabetics (1 in remission & 1 still insulin dependent). Everyone here eats exactly what my 2 diabetics eat, just good old fashioned Friskies Pate style canned food. Since ditching the dry, my one non-diabetic that was living on pred to control allergies is off the pred and looking wonderful, & my little girl with cronic UTI hasn't had one if over 2 years. The rest have coats that shine like the sun and are now sleek and muscular, the overweight ones lost weight and the skinny minis have gained effortlessly. And if you didn't know which were my 3 seniors (ages 12, 13 & 17) you couldn't tell them from my youngsters, they all gallop through the house, fling toys around the room and climb like monkeys up and down the cat trees.

The way we feed around here is basically they get fresh canned food 3 times a day but it works out to really 4 times a day as the last meal of the day is in two parts, half of it fresh to be eaten immediately, and half frozen to be nibbled on overnight. But the way it works here is 3 eat in the bedroom as they are my two diabetics and one very shy little girl, with my diabetics I feed them seperately to make sure how much they eat, then in the kitchen is where the rest eat. 10 of them share 5 bowls on the floor and one little timid girl eats on the counter away from the bullies on the floor. The dog is fed in the livingroom in the evening at the same time as the cats eat in the other room so I can keep an eye on his dish and pick it up when he is done to keep the diabetics out of his dry food.

But as others have said, you don't want to change diet until you are home testing as a diet change can greatly reduce their needs for insulin. In fact my Maxwell was only on insulin for 2 weeks once his diet was changed before he went into remission, if I hadn't been testing at home I would have lost him, since I had just adopted him as a diabetic and wouldn't have known how quickly he stopped needing insulin. In fact even with all the healthy and happy kitties I have here I adopted both of my diabetics as diabetics, to keep them from beginning destroyed for being just a little extra sweet.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Lantus or Levemir are the best insulins to use if you wish to continue free feeding your cats.

I have to disagree with this comment. All insulins, even the ones less favored like Humulin and Vetsulin can be used with free feeding and may be best used that way. ProZinc, another mild long lasting insulin often prescribed by vets, can also be used with free feeding.
Click to expand...
 
One more point about feeding .... I think you need to feed first for Humulin insulin, but not for the other long lasting ones.

Normally, when testing cat on Lantus or Levemir, it's suggested no food 2hrs prior to shot time because food will give you artificially raised numbers. I have always had the food ready, then tested the cat, and then when I have decided to give a shot or not, I then put down the food for eating.

Petsafe 5-meal Auto Feeder
 
Vanessa, what health issues does your cat have? As Gayle mentioned, there is nearly always a canned alternative that can be used, and many people here deal with diabetes in conjunction with all sorts of other health issues--urinary tract issues, kidney disease, inflammatory bowel disease, etc. Also, diabetic cats do better when fed smaller meals 4 times a day instead of 2--you'll find once you get rid of the dry that they do just fine as long as you're feeding more frequently. You can even feed even more frequently than that if you wish. Bandit is obsessed with food (he was formerly obese, and would eat and eat his dry food, puke it up, and eat some more), and he does just fine with 4 times a day. You'll find that it's a lot healthier for your cat.
 
Welcome, Vanessa.

I'm also a relative newbie to the world of feline diabetes. It's overwhelming at first, but you'll slowly start to learn and to relax. It does get easier! About the food, I switched my whole household to a low-carb canned food (5 cats), but ended up switching back one with IBS who just couldn't tolerate the new food. My kitty with urinary tract problems is doing much better on the canned food versus the dry, but his problems may not have been as severe as your kitties' problems (he's not the diabetic one). You might want to start another thread and ask specifically for help with food choices for a cat with diabetes/urinary crystals. You may find another food that you haven''t tried before that has worked well for other kitties. I would especially encourage you to find a canned food if possible.

My vet suggested two meals a day, but my sugar cat, Frodo, has done much better on a modified free-feeding schedule. He has access to food all day until the two to three hours before his next shot. At night, he has access to food until he and his buddies eat it all. Probably most of the night but I'm not sure.

Heidi and Frodo
 
When Ruby was first diagnosed at Christmas it took a bit to change her and Midgie (her non-diabetic side kick) to canned food and also to make sure Ru isn't raiding Midgie's bowl and vice versa. Neither one of them are jumpers or climbers really so it took awhile to figure out how to keep the food separate. I finally went with keeping Ru's in the kitchen where its always been and putting Midgie's on the dining room table. Midgie thinks she's getting something special that way and Ruby doesn't pay attention to it up there so it works for us. It took about a month for us to get there though.

I was kind of lucky in that she was diagnosed a few days before Christmas and I already had plans to take a few days off from work. I was able to spend the first week watching her obsessively and checking to see if she was ok. There were, and some days still are a whole lot of tears and lost sleep.

Hang in there...they say it gets easier. Ruby and I are still having a lot of ups and downs (pun intended) but we'll get there. So will you. This board and everyone here have been my lifeline.
 
Thanks everyone for all the helpful input.....Today was better! I fed him the same dry he was use to this morning and gave him his shot, he actually doesnt seem to mind them....when I went out today I got everything he needed to get his care going......can food, glucose meter, strips, and needles I even wanted to spoil him so not only did I buy him a new bowl (says "I'm a soldier!") but I even got him a automatic litter box to make sure he has the best habitat.
I just finished with his dinner, which I mixed 1\2 dry and 1\2 can to start his process of switching off the dry...boy did he love that..took me 3 pricks but finally got enough blood to test him. He is already down almost 100 less than when the vet tested him yesterday afternoon.....That made me smile more than you know. Slow process but ive begun a journal for him, just like my pops got. I say by next week he will be all on can food and hopefully in the 200's. A mom can hope!!


Thanks again guys, I truly appreciate all the help I can get, I will continue to post his progress, hes actually sitting there grooming himself like the happy kitty I know he is.....(he hasnt been grooming much lately, so I'm hoping thats a great sign!)

Vanessa and Nabisco
 
Fantastic! Welcome to the Vampire Club! Hopefully the wet diet will make a big difference in his numbers.

Starting to groom again is a great sign that he is feeling better.
 
Fantastic! What a great feeling, to already see his numbers dropping!

In the Tech section, there's a thread on how to set up a Goggle Docs spreadsheet. It's very helpful to have and to put in your signature. This way, if/when you want help, others can see your numbers. :-D

Keep up the great work! :-D
 
Just a quick check in before bed.....took another test just to check it out since its been a couple of hours, he has gone down another 33 points

he took the ear test better this time, maybe it wont be so bad ll

good night all and thanks again, you have no idea how much you all me to me right now!!!
:YMHUG: :-D

Vanessa and Biskers
 
It is signs like grooming which are indicators of improvement.... sick kitties are not much on grooming, but as they start to feel better, they clean themselves up, they eat more, they start to gain some of their lost weight back, and you will see changes in the LB as well.

As you can see, the vet numbers are much higher than when you guys are at home. The testing is not a big deal to most cats; mine often just sleep through the pokes.

I hope you continue to keep receiving good numbers and good improvement all around.
 
Welcome Vanessa & Nabisco!

Great news that he's already improving! You did good!

I had a cat with terrible crystals (ga), Midnight. The best thing I ever did for him was buy him a water fountain. All my cats love it but it helped him so much! I had to buy 2 for the 3 cats at that time. I imagine with the dogs you'll need 1 large and 1 medium of the Petmate Deluxe if you can afford them. They're the best and hold a lot of water so you don't have to worry about them running out. It encouraged him to drink and keeping him drinking dissolved the crystals more than any food could. He also was in and out of the hospital for them. He was semi-feral when I took him in but his insides were just destroyed by the time I got him, poor guy.

Melanie & Racci
 
hi vanessa - i have a male cat, punkin, who has had regular bladder infections and crystals also. he would get at least one UTI every year and he was on the prescription S/O all the time. he was diagnosed with diabetes when he was 12 and he probably had had at least 12 UTI's, even while on the prescription dry food.

when he was diagnosed with diabetes a year ago i switched him over to fancy feast classics, started adding water to it (nearly equal amounts of water as food) and never have looked back.

he's done fabulously on it. i also was given the link to Dr Lisa's website catinfo.org and read about the pitfalls of a dry food diet for cats. consider the moisture content of a mouse - compare that to crunchies. cats simply need more water to keep their plumbing working - especially male cats.

the trouble with staying on a high carb dry diet is that you can increase insulin to compensate if you must, but it's like your dad eating candy every day and trying to increase his insulin to handle that. it's doable but not ideal.

many, many cats seem to be able to go off of insulin entirely with a switch to the canned low carb food diet. i don't know if Nabisco would be one - punkin is not - but many do. if you want to try to make the switch, testing is what will keep him safe as you transition. it's important you're not giving insulin based upon dry food numbers when you're switching to canned food. if you're testing regularly we'll be able to help you keep nabisco safe as you transition. change the food over the course of a week by giving some of each, decreasing the dry food while increasing the canned food.

that's a serious weight loss for nabisco - cats need their weight maintained, so give him as much food as he wants to get his weight back to a better level - if he wasn't fat at 15lbs, you probably want him at least up to 12 or so. a diabetic cat that has uncontrolled BG isn't able to use the food he eats and they are literally starving. so go ahead for now and let him eat more.

if you can post the actual BG numbers we can help you more. with Lantus, we look at the BG numbers in relationship to the time of the shot. in a cat controlled with a good dose of Lantus, we'll see the highest numbers right before each shot. the BG will lower in the next 6 or so (approximately) hours after the shot and then increase back up to the next shot time. i'd be interested in your test before the shot and perhaps 3 or 5 hours after the shot.

and don't worry - we all arrived here scared to death for our cats. this is manageable. you can do it - we can all attest to that because we've all done it. it gets much easier with a community to help teach you what you need to know and to hold your hand when you're scared.

welcome!
 
I haven't had a chance to sit down and make a chart on here yet but I will, I have however been keeping a journal for him, off the top of my head I can tell you how it's been, I've been working away the dry food feeding him 1/2 and 1/2 trying accommodate the other cat as well. His shots are scheduled for 7am and 7pm.
Vet took BG: 582
Since I got the blood machine I have taken his BG 3 times
Before his 7pm shot: 496
Tested again about 2 hours later: 463
Before his 7am shot: 444

I will test him again when I get home from work and from what I've read maybe feed him a little more also.
I will report more when I get home!
Thanks
Vanessa and Nabisco
 
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