New, Mr. Tinkles 5/17, AMPS 139 Help!

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Laurie and Mr Tinkles

Laurie and Mr Tinkles

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I just posted on the Health forum with background information. After I posted, I did the AMPS and his BG is 139. Now, I know that's a no shoot #, but I also know that as soon as I feed him, his # will go way up. He always eats everything I give him, so that isn't a problem. Should I feed him and give him the normal 2.5u? Feed him and wait and test in an hour?

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I would test in 20 to 30min and see if he is rising. Even if he is below 150, but is rising in that time frame, then I would feed and shoot. From my experience, when you get a low ps# like this out of the blue - they like to zoom really quickly and all of a sudden. You want to head off that zoom before it happens - because it will happen :smile:
 
I fed him 5 minutes ago, quick retest is 156 now.

I know he will zoom, that's why I think I should shoot now...even though his # is low...it won't be for long.
 
I always feel safer making a call like that if I will be home to keep an eye on my kitty and test test test if needed.

Not sure what the advice would be for shooting low and leaving the house for 9 hours.

I'm in a similar situation today, I was expecting a zoom that didn't happen, but I'll be home and we'll get through it. I also go by a sliding scale which I make up from shot to shot (I don't recommend this, but there it is) and so I shot a bit less than usual, just in case.

If you are very new at this, the advise I've always read on the pzi forum is a no shoot of 200. Though there are many here who have gone rogue very successfully.
 
He was at 243, ~45 min after feeding. I will be home, so I gave 2.25u. I'll check him in a couple of hours.

Edited to add: Thanks so much for the replies, I really appreciate it. I'm on that steep learning curve, so much information and factors to take into account....
 
Looks like you guys are in good shape. Just to be prepared though, have you read through the hypo documents: http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabe ... ycemia.htm ?

I'm not suggesting that anything is wrong or that you need to worry. But it's good stuff to know, and to review every now and then to stay fresh and to be able to act quickly in an emergency.

And to clarify, was it at +12 that Mr. Tinkles (what a great name!) was at 139? Did you shoot then? If not, it's not really an amps. If you retested and shot at +12.75, then that time is now your amps and pmps will be at 12 hours from that new time.
 
Yes, I have read through (and printed out, posted on the fridge) the hypo documents. I have high(er) carb food and karo syrup at the ready if needed. Everyone in my house has been drilled on what to do if....DH is paranoid about it! He watches Mr. T like a hawk. DD named him after the cat from Cats and Dogs....the evil longhaired white one!

Yes, the 139 was at +12. I retested and fed him at +12.75, retested and gave shot at +13.5. You are right, it really isn't the amps....the SS reflects the correct amps.

BG at +3 was 145. I gave him a snack (1.5 oz) of FF, he was headed too low, too fast I think.
 
I would assess this dose after we see: 1) what the nadir # is and 2) when the nadir occurs. If your low point is above 60 to 70 and occurs around +6 to +8 after the shot, then I would stay at the dose. If nadir is later, or Mr. Tinkles falls below 60, then I would probably reduce the next dose down to an even 2u. I'll stop back in here in a bit to check up on things later this afternoon!
 
+4 BG is 91
+5 BG is 83
+6 BG is 74 I gave him another small snack of FF (1 oz), he was hungry. But he will eat anytime you will feed him, too! He acts completely normal, no signs of hypo at all. If anything, he is perkier.
 
Hello again. I took a peek at your spreadsheet. It looks like testing is getting easier for you, which is very good. It's always best to have a test before each shot.

Here's what we find works best for me and my kitty. Shots evenly spaced, 12 hours is best starting out. PZI and ProZinc are reputed to be more flexible with timing, but I'd suggest sticking to a 12/12 schedule as much as reasonably possibly for a while. I test, feed, then shoot (assuming a shootable number). Test, food, shot -- in that order -- all within just a few minutes of each other. On a 12/12 schedule I will usually give a small snack around the time of onset, usually at +2, but I'm less strict about that.

Double lock up the dry dog food, cheerios, whatever. Hungry cats are sneaky and persistent. And will eat stuff that make you go, huh? cats don't like that. Unregulated cats are often hungry cats. It's ok to feed them more. Adding water to the wet food can also help fill them up, and extra water is good for them.

If you have switched from dry cat food to low carb wet food within a couple of weeks or so, insulin demand can decrease suddenly. Testing will help you determine when/if this happens.

Fur shots happen. When my kitty is squirmy, we're more likely to have them. When Buddha is not cooperating I have someone scritch him under the chin. Usually distracts him and he doesn't notice the shot. I've also heard the advice, be sure to push down on the plunger, do not pull up on the barrel.
 
+7 BG is 143.

I know my experiment with TR made it hard to tell what is going on. I will try to stick as close to 12/12 as I can.

Those darn dogs want to eat too, unfortunately! I have to police the bowls so that Mr. T doesn't sneak in and eat the dog food after one of them walks away. I also have 2 civie cats, one is a hoover like Mr. T and the other one is finicky, so I can't free feed the canned food, I have to police the cats too. My house is a three ring circus at times! Do you mean it's ok to feed him more quantity-wise, or more frequently? Or both?

The fur shots were not a squirming issue, I'm not positive but I think I got the needle through the skin and back out the other side somehow? He is long haired, so it's hard to see. My technique has improved with practice, and I'm very fussy now about tenting exactly right....so I think I've solved that problem. The testing has gotten to be a breeze, he lays right down for me, purring cuz he knows he will get a tasty treat afterwards!
 
The earlier than normal zoom of the numbers into the 400's could be because Mr. Tinkles' body isn't used to being in the greens for so long. It is completely up to you, but I might be inclined to try the 2.25u dose again for the next cycle. Maybe you can start to get some sort of a build up in the system. You might get higher numbers for a cycle or two due to the body getting used to going lower and it eventually determining that it is OK.
 
Yeah, feeding time is a challenge here too. My drooler eats outside. I measure his food and it's gone shortly after it hits the bowl. It's the kids that think they can leave food on the counter or the table unattended that gets challenging. And the civvie cat eats his dry food in the garage mostly. Have to remember to police that bowl to make sure it's empty before letting Buddha explore. Both my downstairs bathrooms have been designated cat rooms. I feel your pain!

More food, bigger meals, more snacks if he's just being an absolute pest. Many do free feed with PZI, but that doesn't work in my situation. My vet recommended meals, and it works pretty good for us. Much easier to keep track of meals than lots of small snacks. But when Buddha starts grazing my houseplants, I give a tablespoon or so of his usual food.

Fur shots, yeah. Just take your time. I've sometimes poked a coupla three times 'til I get it right.

It does get easier.
 
Kelly, thank you for your input. That makes sense to me, I'm going to try the 2.25u again, and see where he is in the morning. I'll try to get a +5 or +6 # during the night.

Donna, thanks to you too! I wasn't even sure I would be able to give the insulin shots, because I am needle phobic. Fortunately, I haven't had a problem with it, but somebody coming to give ME a shot....I'm on the floor if I think about it too much! :oops:
 
agree with kelly and donna, drop the dose. that spike is tellin you something.
 
wow that is some SS you've got. i feel for you with those highs. it was a little hard to understand a few things...i guess you've done a little tid? i did see one where it was unclear if he was still going down or on his way up and it looks like you shot 1u mid cycle.
i'm probably confused...but my 2 cents is always make certain he's on his way up.
you really don't want to get caught in a panicky liver syndrome.
 
I just remembered something I did near the beginning, when I was concerned with fur shots. I filled a used syringe with water, in the amount that I usually shot. Then I parted Buddha's fur a bit and shot the water right onto his skin. Just so I could what it would look like if I missed entirely. I would never reshoot based on how much wetness I saw after a shot. But it showed me what it would look like. And it made me feel more confident that the insulin was actually going in.
 
+6 BG was 219
+9 BG was 392

I'm going to have to shoot at +10 in order to get back on schedule, or skip a shot.

Lori, I know the SS is confusing, I probably didn't do it right. Where it looks like TID dosing was actually where I tried TR briefly, but I wasn't comfortable with the huge dose swings so I went back to BID.

Something I noticed and wondered about....his #s shoot up at +9, +10...but then drop some at +12 the last few days. Any ideas what that is about?
 
I see what you mean about numbers at +10 higher than at +12. That's interesting. So much going on it's hard to tell what it might mean. Could be due in part to meter variance, or food spikes, or reaction to low numbers, or ... hmm.

I was going to ask if you check for ketones? Mr. Tinkles has some high numbers and while a cat is unregulated it's often a good idea to check for ketones with a urine stick, Diastix. The strips are fairly cheap and are available over the counter.
 
Looking at your spreadsheet I would guess that it is a combo of insulin wearing off and the last bit of a food spike that would give the higher number at +10. What kind of FF flavors are you feeding? At what times after the shot do you usually feed?
 
I have not been testing for ketones. I have to get more meter strips today, so I will get some Diastix too and start testing.

As far as feeding, I feed him a large meal right after testing and I shoot while he is eating. I feed him two large meals, at shot times, and snacks in the middle of the day, around +5-+7. While I was trying TR, that schedule got out of whack....but now I am back to two meals and snacks in the middle. FF flavors are: chopped grill, beef, chicken & beef, savory salmon, turkey & giblets, chicken, and liver & chicken. All from the wheat gluten free list, all are supposed to be low carb.

He's back to high numbers today....+5.5 BG was 257. :YMSIGH: I know, patience....
 
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