New mom of diabetic cat and overwhelmed

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Christianna

Member Since 2014
Hi,
I hope I'm in the right place. I just was told about your wonderful forum by a volunteer at the animal shelter. My beloved 9-year old cat Noodle was diagnosed 8 weeks ago with diabetes. He lost a pound in a month and was generally acting ill. The vet ran blood work and said his ALT liver was very high, 234. She thought maybe he had a liver infection so gave a week's worth of amoxicillin, as Noodle also had a high white cell count. Noodle's sugar level on the panel was 373. The vet said she was "trying to figure out if Noodle was truly diabetic" or if the liver was goofing up his sugar (?) Noodle improved a lot on the amoxicillin (at first) but after he was off it for a week he started acting ill again, didn't want to eat and was lethargic. The first vet, who I had only seen once (we're new in the town) had left for 2 weeks' vacation so we saw another vet. Noodle had vomited up a small amount of foamy blood so we were very panic-stricken. The vet felt he should open up Noodle to see what was going on. Noodle had a stomach ulcer but also moderate pancreatitis and lots of fat globs in his liver. He thought that between the liver and the pancreatitis, that might be the reason for the high sugar. Noodle never got over about 375. After 3 weeks of home nursing for Noodle and normal ALT again, the vet decided to put him on insulin. BCP PZI, one unit once a day. We had to run Noodle down to the vet every day or every other day for a glucose check. He didn't come down in his sugar readings at all. I know Noodle was extremely stressed as he would cower and hide from us every time we took him, so at least a small part of that number might have been that. I told the vet this and the vet tech showed me how to prick Noodle's ear and test him at home. I bought a Relion meter at Walmart. The vet is confused as Noodle shows none of the "usual" signs of diabetes. No overeating, very little drinking and average peeing. (When Noodle got sick he had been eating vet-prescribed Royal Canin dry food for gastrointestinal IBD.) After researching this site I followed the advice and put him immediately on low carb canned (the safe Fancy Feast flavors and Core wellness cans). It's been 4 weeks now and Noodle shows no consistent lowering of his blood glucose. After reading this forum I discovered that PZI probably needs to be given every 12 hours, so we increased it to 1 unit twice a day. There have been the occasional readings in the 165-200 range (pretty rare) and many in the 250-290 range but for the most part they still seem to hover in the 300-330 range, even with the increased PZI. The vet is not a great believer in home testing and says I am getting too hung up on the numbers and maybe I am. Am I? Noodle acts great otherwise. Normal appetite, drinking much less water now that he's getting it from canned and peeing fine. He did show sugar in his urine when he was first taken to the vet 8 weeks ago, but no UTI. Should I be home testing for sugar in the urine ? Anyway, I get the feeling from reading that those of you on here are way more educated about feline diabetes than the vet. Can someone who's been through this tell me if I should be raising the PZI dose or is 4 weeks just not long enough to see results? Shouldn't I see some movement at all? The vet says I should be going by how Noodle is acting, eating, etc. but I know diabetes does bad damage and don't think I should just ignore numbers in the 300s. I know this is a long complicated post and I'm sorry but Noodle's a complicated boy I guess. Any thoughts and advice would be so welcome as I am frantic with not knowing the best thing to do for Noodle. Thank you all so much!

Christianna and Noodle
 
Welcome to FDMB!

So happy you took it upon yourself to start home testing and change the diet. That is the two main things to try to get a handle on diabetes. A lot of vets, dont mention or discourage home testing (mine being one of them) or diet change but these changes can make a big difference and stop unnecessary vet bills. Also when you take your cat in for a curve (testing every hour or 2) it costs money but stresses your cat out which will raise the bg. As to the insulin, Prozinc (PZI) is a great insulin and yes you are correct about the twice a day dosage. It only lasts about 12 hrs so once that 12 hrs is up, so does the bg lol. I know you are home testing, don't know if you know or not or even if your having troubles with home testing but a warm rice sock helps get the blood flowing and the ears will learn to bleed, also diabetic friendly treats help keep them distracted (freeze dried chicken s great for this) I know you said youve been getting 300-330 range when are these tests being done. We advise to ALWAYS test before every shot, but also it is best to get a test in mid-day if possible (usually about 5-6 hrs after a shot) to see how low the dosage brings the bg down. If the bg is still high mid-day you may want to bring the dosage up a bit....maybe by .25 or .5 units but once again that depends on the nadir (mid day reading) It is also best to set up a spread sheet for your bg tests it gives us an idea of what the numbers are doing. Here is the instructions for that: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130 I don't know what your feeding schedule is right now, but you may want to try mini meals it makes it easier on the pancreas. I have no experience as to the other health issues but hopefully the insulin will get Noodle's health back in line. Also, just checking there is NO dry food anymore, and what is Noodle's weight?
 
Welcome to FDMB.

Glucose levels at the vet may be elevated from 100 to 180 mg/dL due to stress.

Check my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for the 5Ps otherwise known as the whole cat report. He is more than his glucose level :smile: also, as long as he is running high, checking for urine ketones is a good idea and there are tips on how to do that too.

For liver support, discuss the use of Marin or Denmarin with your vet. Both contain an extract of milk thistle which has been show to help the stressed liver.
 
Hi dirtybirdsoaps,
Thank you so much for your help. I really dread the ear-testing and am not good at it yet. Noodle HATES to see me coming and that just kills me. I will definitely try the warm rice sock. Poor Noodle's left ear where I tested this morning looks all red :cry: I alternate ears but need to improve my technique. Noodle right now weighs 10.6 lbs. and has been hanging on to that exact weight for a month. When he had his crisis 2 months ago he had weighed 12 pounds, so lost all that weight in a month. For treats, I had been giving him one or two of the Young Again Zero carb food pebbles. Do you think that is acceptable or is ALL dry food to be removed? If so, I will have to pick up some freeze-dried chicken. Is there a particular brand I could look for at the pet store? The biggest problem I have with the testing is that Noodle has always been a grazer and it was really hard to get him off dry. So now he wants to eat a tablespoon or two of wet 6 times a day. The vet told me to indulge him right now to try to keep him eating and maybe get a few more ounces back on him. So anytime I would want to test, he would have been within 2 hours of having had a mini-meal. I wonder how much his BG readings would be affected by that. The most frustrating thing to me right now is even when I test at 5-6 hours, there is no real budge yet on his numbers. It's like the insulin isn't doing a thing, yet the vet doesn't want me to just keep raising and raising the dose too fast. I have noticed that he seems to get very tired and lethargic within a few minutes after his shot and then seems to perk up after several hours, after you'd think the shot would be wearing off. So I am really puzzled at no real progress in 4 weeks. Feeling very discouraged today. Thank you for your help and advice. I really need it right now!

Christi
 
Hi BJM,
Thank you for your reply and the whole cat report. The 5 Ps were very helpful and Noodle is ok on all 5 right now. I went and got some ketodiastix and checked Noodle this morning. He was totally negative for ketones but showed ++ on sugar (500+ the chart said.) Noodle took a 30-day course of Denamarin after he was diagnosed and it probably helped, as on his last chem panel 3 weeks ago his liver was normal. Now if we could just figure out why his BG isn't budging. The vet doesn't believe he's a "true diabetic" but what about numbers in the mid 300s? So confused. Right now Noodle seems to feel better when the insulin is leaving his system than when it's at the low point. Neither the vet or I can understand that. Does insulin have side effects and is sleepiness one of them? Thanks again :-)

Christi
 
We like mini meals. Lots of us use an automatic feeder that will open several times a day and then go to an empty space 2 hours before the preshot. It isn't so important to regulate food during the cycle; the only time you want a "true" number is when you are going to base a dose on it. It would be good to get a number in the +2/+3 time frame to see if there is a chance he is dropping very early in the cycle and then jumping back up. Might explain why he seems to feel crummy early.

Can we help you with the spreadsheet? It is really hard to give advice using just a few numbers. If they are put into the spreadsheet (which is color coded and very easy to read) we can see what a certain dose did. Then we can give you better advice. Usually with PZI, our protocol is to hold a dose 3 cycles and if the preshot and midcycle numbers are still too high, increase by .25 or .5 (depending on how high the numbers are)

What kind of wet food is he getting? If he will eat the freeze dried treats, yes, I would remove the Young Again. Can't hurt…..
 
Hi Sue,
Thank you for your link on the spreadsheet. I tried to PM you but it shows the message just sitting in my outbox. Am I doing something wrong? Please let me know if you received my PM. Thanks!

Christi
 
Hi Sue,
I just PM'ed you with my email address. Thank you for helping me take on my spreadsheet :-) I am very interested in the automatic feeder but is it ok to put wet food in and let it sit for the few hours? Sorry for the dumb question, it's just that this is all new to me. Where can you buy a feeder and is there a brand name? Right now Noodle is eating the safe varieties of Fancy Feast classic that I got off Dr. Lisa Pierson's chart, as well as Core Wellness and some Merrick. Noodle really loves Merrick Grammy's Pot Pie and one chart said it was 8% carb which is a little higher than I'd like. Noodle is allergic to salmon and tuna so that lets out a lot of possibilities. I had never heard of Young Again till I saw it mentioned as a transitional food for dry-food addicts (on Dr. Pierson's site.) The company says zero-carb but I wonder how that can be. How can they manufacture dry kibble with no carbs at all? Maybe even a few pieces a day are affecting Noodle's BG slightly. I will get some freeze-dried bits tomorrow instead. Thanks for helping me!

Christi
 
I freeze my food and leave it in the feeder overnight. A silicone cupcake pan works great for this - a can of Fancy Feast fits perfectly in the cup and when frozen, it pops right out. I freeze the cupcake pan. and pop them out when frozen and then keep the frozen pucks in a plastic bag. I love my PetSafe 5. Neither of my cats has been able to break into it because the bottom is the part that turns. The ones that flip up were easy for them to break. It is a little more expensive. PetSmart sells them and will accept the price from the internet if you find one for less there. If it is not super hot and buggy where you live, food should also last for several hours (at least) in the feeder, without being frozen.
 
Christianna said:
... I had never heard of Young Again till I saw it mentioned as a transitional food for dry-food addicts (on Dr. Pierson's site.) The company says zero-carb but I wonder how that can be. How can they manufacture dry kibble with no carbs at all? ...

It is 5% calories from carbohydrates the way we calculate it. Liver, in particular, stores glycogen which can be converted into glucose.
 
I love my petsafe 5 feeder. It has helped A LOT in my house, although I seem to be the odd one. My cats will NOT eat food thats been frozen or refrigerated so I fill mine for 4 feedings at a time. I fill it at 5 pm for their 5 pm feeding, then also fill it for 10 pm, 3 am, and 7 am. My cats it it all. Then again I keep my house between 68-70 degrees. I have thought about getting the ice packs but I really dont think they'd eat it then since it would be chilled. Heres the cheapest I see right now....
http://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-5-Meal-Au ... pet+feeder

or

http://www.chewy.com/dog/petsafe-eatwel ... t/dp/48079

As to the Young again dry, my cats love it. I tried the EVO cat & kitten and Hidey's stomach didn't care for it. He doesnt really seem to spike much from the YA. Im actually reintroducing it in his diet now, for either a treat or 1 meal out of the 5 NOT all dry. If you email the company they will send you a free sample. Also they guarantee their food, if your cat doesnt like it theyll give you a refund.
 
Hi dirtybirdsoaps,
Thanks so much for the links for the automatic pet feeder. That is a perfect solution and I ordered one today. It will make things so much easier!

Christi
 
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