New Member

[LindsayPenney]

Hi, my cat Zeus is 14 and was diagnosed with diabetes in June. It’s been totally overwhelming! He’s currently on Lantus and we feed him a combination of “Beyond” pates and Iams senior dry food. Our vet did not initially want us to change his diet but he has gone from 17 pounds to 9 1/2 pounds in less than a year and she suspects he has some GI troubles as well so we tried Z/D for a few days but he won’t eat it. We have decreased his insulin injections from 4 units 2x daily to 1.5 units 2x daily. He’s such a love bug and we are trying to do everything we can for him within our financial means but we can’t support the constant BG checks or the labs and ultrasound that were suggested for his GI troubles. His initial BG was in the 600’s in June but due to recent lack of eating his BG last week was in the 60’s. At this point we are just trying to get him to eat anything. Any support would be wonderful! So glad I found this forum and hope to explore it more at some point to look for answers but I’m also balancing a busy life with 3 kids, a dog, and a part time job plus of course our love bug Zeus! So I’m hoping for some replies for initial guidance . We live in the North shore area of MA, and it’s cold today!

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Hello and welcome!

Oh wow! Couple quick notes, these two things:

We have decreased his insulin injections from 4 units 2x daily to 1.5 units 2x daily.

and especially

due to recent lack of eating his BG last week was in the 60’s.

makes me worried that Zeus is (still) being overdosed with insulin. I assume that the 60's reading was at the vet, with a pet-specific meter? If so, that's way too low for comfort!

First things first: if you are taking Zeus to the vet for curves, we would strongly urge you to consider home-testing blood glucose instead. It's much cheaper and, even better, gives you much more control over Zeus' diabetes, which it seems like is something that needs to happen. We have lots of tips and suggestions for how to test, what you need and the best/cheapest place to buy supplies, etc. We also have tips for saving money on things like insulin.

Now, as for Zeus' GI issues: sigh. It's a frustrating syndrome, for sure. I don't have a ton of specific advice here (others probably will), but I will say that for right now, the best food for Zeus is the one that he'll eat without trouble. His weight loss may be due to GI issues, or it may be related to his diabetes (diabetic cats can't utilize calories efficiently, and often lose weight as a result), but either way, number one priority is to get him eating reliably.

Eventually, you'll want to get him eating an all low-carb diet, preferably wet food, but don't switch to low-carb until you are testing blood glucose, as it can be very dangerous to do so. Switching to wet food can drop blood glucose by 100+ points, and we've even seen cats go into diet-controlled remission immediately upon switching! So you want to do it eventually, but only if you can monitor the effects.

What kinds of symptoms are you seeing that make you suspect GI issues, other than the weight loss?

 

[JanetNJ]

Skip the dry all together. That food is like 40% carb BUT in doing that drop your dose lower. Testing the bg at home will mean you no longer have to have it done at the vet. Once I started home testing my cat didnt go back for a year. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.

Sorry he's having Gi issues. I'd try adding probiotics into the food and maybe some b vitamins.

 

[LindsayPenney]

Hello and welcome!

Oh wow! Couple quick notes, these two things:



and especially



makes me worried that Zeus is (still) being overdosed with insulin. I assume that the 60's reading was at the vet, with a pet-specific meter? If so, that's way too low for comfort!

First things first: if you are taking Zeus to the vet for curves, we would strongly urge you to consider home-testing blood glucose instead. It's much cheaper and, even better, gives you much more control over Zeus' diabetes, which it seems like is something that needs to happen. We have lots of tips and suggestions for how to test, what you need and the best/cheapest place to buy supplies, etc. We also have tips for saving money on things like insulin.

Now, as for Zeus' GI issues: sigh. It's a frustrating syndrome, for sure. I don't have a ton of specific advice here (others probably will), but I will say that for right now, the best food for Zeus is the one that he'll eat without trouble. His weight loss may be due to GI issues, or it may be related to his diabetes (diabetic cats can't utilize calories efficiently, and often lose weight as a result), but either way, number one priority is to get him eating reliably.

Eventually, you'll want to get him eating an all low-carb diet, preferably wet food, but don't switch to low-carb until you are testing blood glucose, as it can be very dangerous to do so. Switching to wet food can drop blood glucose by 100+ points, and we've even seen cats go into diet-controlled remission immediately upon switching! So you want to do it eventually, but only if you can monitor the effects.

What kinds of symptoms are you seeing that make you suspect GI issues, other than the weight loss?

Thank you so much for your feedback and advice. When he was eating well and getting the 4 units of Lantus his BG was dropping but was not low. We’ve only done a few curves because we can’t afford them but his highest BG was around 3pm so we had been having spot BG’s at that time. I’m very interested in doing my own testing at home, and also on saving money on his lantus. We’ve switched him back to his old foods and he’s eating the wet but no longer eating the dry, so I’ve just been feeding him the wet 2x a day with a sprinkle of the dry for “encouragement”.

At his last appointment his vet said his belly felt “doughy”. And I noticed his belly was gurgling a lot after eating. This is why we switched his food to Z/D. He also had some wonky labs over the summer and they did mention there’s a chance he has something else going on such as lymphoma. I believe he had elevated lukosites and monosites ( if those are real things, I’m working and don’t have my notes so I’m just going off memory). However we can’t afford more testing and decided to treat just the diabetes as he was doing quite well until recently.

 

[Pookie (GA)]

Hi Lindsay! Welcome to the board. I'm pretty new here, too, but I wanted to extend a welcome. If you haven't already visited the Links/FAQ page, I encourage you to do so.

I can speak from personal experience that the best thing you can do to save money and safeguard your cat's health is to start testing BG levels at home, if you're not already doing so. Home testing allows you to get real-time data on your cats status, and allows you to perform your own "curves" (not only saving you money but giving you readings that are unaffected by the stress your cat may feel from spending the day at the clinic).

All of the guidelines here are based on readings taken from a meter calibrated for human blood. Walmart sells several different models which start at $9, and the test strips are something like $18 for 100 strips. There are meters calibrated for cat/dog blood, but the meters are more expensive and the strips can only be bought online (at least in my area) and they cost around $50 for a pack of 50. (I started with a pet meter but switched to a Walmart ReLion meter shortly after joining.)

There's a fair amount of testing initially as you collect the data that shows how your cat responds to the insulin. We record the data on spreadsheets that are linked in our signatures. This makes the necessary information immediately available to advice givers in the event you need help.

We also feel strongly about feeding only low carb, wet food. The dry foods (even the prescription diabetic management ones) tend to be high carb, which is exactly what a diabetic doesn't need. From my own experience, I had been feeding Lola Iam's hairball/weight loss kibble. Since transitioning her to Friskie's pate, Lola's BG has returned to normal. (She was diagnosed and received her first dose on September 14. She hasn't required any insulin since October 18. She's still a diabetic and I'll always have to monitor her, but for now at least she's "diet controlled.") Here's the link to Dr. Lisa's food chart that will help you determine which wet foods are better than others for diabetics. (The recommendation is to keep food below 10% carbs; I think a great number of us feed Friskies and/or Fancy Feast pates. Note that the "shreds" and the "gravy" entrees are generally higher carb.)

The Lantus ISG (Insulin Support Group) is very active. If you haven't been there yet, I encourage you to visit it to read the "stickies," especially the New to the Group one. Oh, and here's a link to saving money by buying Lantus from Canada.

Enid

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I would watch JanetJ video of her testing her cat.
Most of us use the Relion Prime from Walmart its 9 dollars

17.88 for 100 strips, you will be testing a lot in the beginning
I know you said finances are tough
Don't buy the Alpha Trak 2 pet meter the price of the test strips will kill you

Just tell your vet you can't afford it

You will also need lancets get either 26 or 28 gauge, they will make a bigger hole
so Zeus will bleed better.
A lot of us test freehand just using the lancet
Some buy the lancing device,
I think it's easier just using the lancet you can see where
You are poking.
Cotton rounds to out behind the ear in case you might poke
your finger, then just hold the cotton round on his ear for about
10-20 seconds to stop the bleeding, press down gently

Believe me sounds worse than it is. I can even test Tyler when he's sleeping.

We can give you any tips you might need just ask away

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If your kitty won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

About the cost of lantus most of us order from Marks Marine in Canada
We buy the 5 pack of the Lantus Solorstar Pens
They should last you for about a year depending on how many units you are
shooting.
We don't shoot using the pen because you can only increase or decrease by
1 hole unit.
So we use our U-100 syringes with half unit markings , stick it in the grey
rubber stopper in the pen and draw the insulin from there.
We use the half unit syringes because we increase or decrease by 0.25 units
at a time.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

https://rxcanada4less.com Marks Marine pharmacy





Lantus Solostar Cartridges 5x3ml per box (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 15 ml $159.99 USD

Lantus Solostar PEN CAN (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) *single pen open box* Brand 100iu/ml one pen 3 ml $49.99 USD

Lantus Solostar PENS 5x3ml per box (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 15 ml $164.99 USD

Lantus VIAL Insulin (10ml per vial) (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 10 ml $110.99 USD


Like I said you are better off buying the 5 pack of cartridges or the 5 pack of pens
They will last you way over a year
After your vet writes the first script you won't ever need another script.
Call them and will tell you what to do
They are very nice people

Oh when you buy the pens they will have an expiration date on them
Most likely 2022 or 2023 by now.
Put them in the frig , a middle shelf
As long as you don't puncture them they will be good until the expiration date
So you are actually saving a ton of money

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Lindsey, we have a supply closet here where members whose
kitties have passed. I see two members selling new lantus pens at very good prices
You may want to take a look.
I'll post the link for you, I have bought many lantus from there

Look at Steve and Buddy's post and ask what the expiration date is
Look at Jim Martins post the expiration date is May 2023 for Jim you can reply to him there
or tap on his picture and you will see start a conversation if you want to
The prices are very good

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/supply-closet-for-sale-or-free.15/

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

• when you get a chance ,It would be helpful if you can set up your signature so we don't have to ask you the same questions over again.
• It appears after each post in gray, look at mine,

• On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
• • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add any other text, such as
  • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.


tap on your avatar where it says your name ,then hit profile page ,tap on that ,then go up to the very top, upper right hand side and tap on your name ,it will bring down a drop box, tap on signature, the signature will be under settings, tap on the signaturethen and you can start to add what I posted above, make sure you hit save ,
Welcome to the best place you could ever be and an awesome group of people

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

When you start to test yourself , you will save all that money instead
of having to have the vet do it. You can even do a curve yourself, no need for
your vet to do it.
Most if us don't even go to our vets anymore when it comes to diabetes unless
they are sick or for routine blood work.
My Tyler wouldn't be doing this good if it wasn't for the members here.
They live it 24/7 365 days a year. I have to say they know more than most vets do when it comes to treating diabetes

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank you so much for your feedback and advice. When he was eating well and getting the 4 units of Lantus his BG was dropping but was not low. We’ve only done a few curves because we can’t afford them but his highest BG was around 3pm so we had been having spot BG’s at that time. I’m very interested in doing my own testing at home, and also on saving money on his lantus. We’ve switched him back to his old foods and he’s eating the wet but no longer eating the dry, so I’ve just been feeding him the wet 2x a day with a sprinkle of the dry for “encouragement”.

At his last appointment his vet said his belly felt “doughy”. And I noticed his belly was gurgling a lot after eating. This is why we switched his food to Z/D. He also had some wonky labs over the summer and they did mention there’s a chance he has something else going on such as lymphoma. I believe he had elevated lukosites and monosites ( if those are real things, I’m working and don’t have my notes so I’m just going off memory). However we can’t afford more testing and decided to treat just the diabetes as he was doing quite well until recently.

No need to have your vet do the curves, we can teach you how to do them
Most cats get stressed when doing them at the vets, which might give higher numbers than you would get if you were doing them yourself
You can send your vet the curves you did.

When you are ready to test at home we have a spreadsheet here that we use to record the numbers . We can help you set up the spreadsheet when the time comes.
If you ever need help with dosing we need to see his numbers in order to give advice.
Can discuss that later

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

One other thing most of feed our cats more than 2 times a day
We give the begger meals first thing in the morning , after you test ,same goes for the night time test we feed smaller meals in between and try to stop feeding after 6 hours. Its easier in their pancreas
You withhold food 2 hours prior to the AM pre shot ( first test in the AM)
Same goes for the PM pre shot.
You don't want the test to be food influenced



I see you posted that he has gone from 17 pounds to 9 1/2 pounds in less than a year
I would feed him more than just twice a day

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

I’ve just been feeding him the wet 2x a day with a sprinkle of the dry for “encouragement”.

Hmmm... wonder if that's part of why his numbers were so much lower on the last visit? Sounds like he's already eating pretty low-carb compared to his old diet...

they did mention there’s a chance he has something else going on such as lymphoma. I believe he had elevated lukosites and monosites ( if those are real things, I’m working and don’t have my notes so I’m just going off memory).

Leukocytes and monocytes? Those would be white blood cells, and high levels do indicate that he had something going on. Could be lymphoma, but also I think could be an infection? I'm not one of the people around here who reads labs, but there are some who could offer a general interpretation of his results. Diane mentioned the 'spreadsheet' we all use for tracking BG readings. If you check it out, or just click on any of ours (the link will be in blue in the signature info at the bottom of posts), you'll see that there's a tab for "Labs" in which you can fill in any results that you'd like people to look at.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I agree with @Nan & Amber (GA), don’t get rid of the dry food until you are home testing as removing it can drop the BG by up to 100 points.
High leukocytes usually mean infection and high monocytes can mean also mean infection, or the body is fighting something else such as an auto immune disease, cancer, a virus etc. Those tests may possibly be resolved by now.

 

[LindsayPenney]

Hi Everyone! I’m still getting used to this forum and appreciate all the advice and responses. I hope I’m replying to this whole chat and not just one persons but I really have no idea this is new to me. I’m still pretty overwhelmed, but I’ll try to get my signature figured out to start. If I want to test at home I still need my vet to provide a prescription for the items I will need, correct? As far as his current issues I have a lot to figure out. He was losing weight before we changed his diet too, but it become rapid once we changed his food and he reduced his eating by about 75%. I’ve since tried to go back to his original diet but he’s not really liking the dry food as much anymore. I’ve been feeding him more wet too. He seems to do better with being able to snack throughout the day so he gets his can of wet in the morning with his insulin and he eats about 3/4 of it, then finishes it later. When I see his bowl is empty I’ll give him a small amount of his dry food and he eats it. He’s still getting less dry food than before, so I feel comfortable with that. He gets another can of wet at night with his insulin and again will eat about 75% of that and then will finish the rest over the course of the evening (if the dog doesn’t sneak in and eat it... so frustrating). I really want to address his belly issues though, if anyone has any suggestions. I know GI trouble can be a symptom from the diabetes and there’s definitely been some changes. His belly gurgles, he seems to only tolerate smaller meals, and his bowel movements have gone from very soft and unformed to hard and solid. This is all new over the past few weeks. Could this be from his diabetes and is there something I can do to help him? Someone mentioned adding vitamin b? I feel like I can’t really get a good hold of his diabetes management without first being able to get his appetite better. My vet mentioned at this point allowing him to just eat what he will eat, and continue with reduced insulin (from 4 units 2x day down to 1 1/2 units 2x day), and without saying the actual words she is making it sound like we are moving toward end of life care. I’m not ready to give up on him though, he still has a lot of hope in his eyes. Thanks for any help and I’m sorry I’m not organized, I’m working on it!

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi there, Lindsay and Zeus. (Great name! )

His belly gurgles, he seems to only tolerate smaller meals, and his bowel movements have gone from very soft and unformed to hard and solid. This is all new over the past few weeks. Could this be from his diabetes and is there something I can do to help him? Someone mentioned adding vitamin b?

The diabetes might be one possible cause. (Age is another factor - things slow down.)

Unregulated diabetes can affect the nervous system (neuropathy). While the most easily recognisable form of this is where a cat may start walking on its hocks (plantigrade stance) it can sometimes give rise to gastroparesis (delayed stomach emptying) and that may lead to constipation as overall gut motility is affected.

Feeding smaller more frequent meals may help (gastroparesis can, understandably, lead to feelings of fullness when even a small amount is eaten). In general, neuropathy can be treated through improvement of blood sugar regulation and oral supplementation with the methylcobalamin form of B12 plus folic acid. Zobaline is a methyl-B12/folate supplement for cats, but it's a little pricey. Many members here use Vitacost methyl-B12 plus a folic acid supplement in the same dosage as the Zobaline product. See this post for more info.

Neuropathy can also affect bladder control.


Mogs
.

 

[Critter Mom]

Very helpful site:

felineconstipation.org


Mogs
.

 

[LindsayPenney]

Hi there, Lindsay and Zeus. (Great name! )


The diabetes might be one possible cause. (Age is another factor - things slow down.)

Unregulated diabetes can affect the nervous system. While the most easily recognisable form of this is where a cat may start walking on its hocks (plantigrade stance) it can sometimes give rise to gastroparesis (delayed stomach emptying) and that may lead to constipation as overall gut motility is affected.

Feeding smaller more frequent meals may help (gastroparesis can, understandably, lead to feelings of fullness when even a small amount is eaten). In general, neuropathy can be treated through improvement of blood sugar regulation and oral supplementation with the methylcobalamin form of B12 plus folic acid. Zobaline is a methyl-B12/folate supplement for cats, but it's a little pricey. Many members here use Vitacost methyl-B12 plus a folic acid supplement in the same dosage as the Zobaline product. See this post for more info.

Neuropathy can also affect bladder control.


Mogs
.

Thank you. He’s definitely walking on his hocks, and his feet slip easily especially when he’s at his water bowl. I hope this doesn’t cause too much discomfort, I feel so bad for him. I would like to look further into supplements if there’s a possibility that they can help him, especially his GI symptoms.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Welcome from sunny California. Can we get you to start home testing? You have gotten lots of great suggestions to help us help you and Zeus.

 

[Critter Mom]

’m still getting used to this forum and appreciate all the advice and responses. I hope I’m replying to this whole chat and not just one persons

You are indeed, Lindsay. Whenever you post, your message can be read by all members following the thread.

He’s definitely walking on his hocks, and his feet slip easily especially when he’s at his water bowl.

Here's a little inspiration for you. It's the story of a cat called Tootsie who was given B12/folate supplements to help his neuropathy:

Mogs
.