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wamsles

Member Since 2014
Hi there. I'm Shannon. My kitty, Goose, was diagnosed 2 weeks ago. His brother, Maverick, is normal.

He is 13 years old on April.
The day my husband and I found out we picked up the dry food and went on wet food.
Life's Abundance instinctive choice and AvoDerm tuna & chicken. Goose will eat any of it, but Maverick is tired of the Life's Abundance.
Last Tuesday we started Goose on Lantus, 2 units.
I haven't learned how to home test yet. In fact I'm terrible trying to give the shot. I prepare it and my husband does it with no problem.
I wanted to have a curve done early so we could see how it was going. We took him to the vet on Friday and left him there for the day. That was the biggest mistake we have made. I don't know what they did, but my husband said that Goose was disoriented when he came home and had peed in his crate prior to getting in the car. I didn't call the vet's office on Saturday, but I wanted to. My husband wants to talk to the vet directly.
Goose has had a back problem for a couple of years. He doesn't like to jump up high. We've put an ottoman next to the bed just so Goose can get up there to nap. He told the staff at the office, which was the same office that diagnosed it...you think it would be remembered...but he doesn't think they handled him very gently.
Long story short, his BG was "still too high" and we need to up the dose to 3 units.

I guess what I'm looking for other than the introduction to the group is this:
1) Is there a video or 2 with instructions on how to home monitor?
2) What is the best path forward with the vet? We never had an issue before now.
3) Is there a dramatic change in behavior after starting the insulin?

The last question was my husband's. He said that Goose no longer runs around the house after he goes #2 like he used to.

Thank you all!
 
Welcome Shannon and Goose!

Eddie and I are pretty new too! I can tell you that you've found the BEST place to learn how to help Goose get better. It sounds like you're on the right track in terms of switching from dry food to wet. That change alone can substantially lower a cat's BG, and some kitties are able to go into remission on diet alone. You do definitely need to be cautious if you are administering insulin, and change food, as it can drastically decrease their need for insulin.

It's wonderful that you're willing to learn to home test. I can tell you from our experience that based on Eddie's vet tests, they kept increasing the dose. We got our first couple successful tests and realized that the dose was way too high! I can also tell you that I regularly see new beans (newbie "beans" as in "human beings") who get their first successful test results only to discover they are having a hypo situation. Your description of Goose's disorientation and urinating in his carrier are concerning.

Your vet has prescribed a very good insulin, and many cats go into remission using Lantus. There's a specific section on this board that Lantus users post in and provide support and advise to each other.

Here is a link to a bunch of links on home testing: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287. It seems really daunting at first, but you will get the hang of it! A couple things that really helped us when we first started testing were: 1) Warming the ear. It helps the blood flow more freely, 2) You don't need the expensive AlphaTrak meter. A human meter does the job just fine. Most folks use one of the Relion meters from Wal-Mart, since the test strips are the most reasonably priced, and the meter is pretty accurate. 3) You can freehand the lancet or use a lancing device. If you use a Relion lancing device, there is a clear cap that comes with it so you can see what you're doing. Seems self-evident, but I didn't realize what the clear cap was until someone pointed it out. :smile: 4) Treats! We keep Eddie's favorite no-carb freeze dried chicken treats right inside his testing supply box, so the supplies all smell like his favorite treat, and he associates testing with a treat. Now he sits in his testing spot waiting for a treat, or comes running when he hears the lid click on his box. 5) If you're not successful, don't poke more than three times. Stop, reward kitty and reward yourself, and try again later!

Lots of us had some difficulty with our vets at first. I'm sure others will chime in on that. Most vets don't have extensive experience with FD and they assume that most patients can't or won't home test. The folks here eat, sleep, and breathe FD. There are several people here that have monitored and advised hundreds of pet owners through this "sugar dance." Ultimately, Goose is your cat. If you don't feel comfortable with what the vet is recommending, you do not have to do it.

I'm not aware of there being a dramatic change in behavior, for the worse anyway. High BG or low BG can cause some cats to act aggressively or weird since they don't feel good. Most cats seem to start feeling better and having improvement of their clinical symptoms within a relatively short period of time. In addition to monitoring BG, you should also monitor the whole cat. This is often measured by the Five P's: Peeing, Pooping, Preening, Purring, and Playing. :smile:

Ask lots of questions! I, and everyone else on this board, have been given invaluable advise by other users. We are eager to "pay it back" by helping people beginning to learn the "sugar dance."

Also can you let us know where you're from?

Welcome again!
Jen and Eddie
 
Hi bean Shannon and sugardude Goose and welcome to the message board.

I think that dose of 3U that your vet wants you to give, is too high, unless your cat is 25 pounds or more.

How much does Goose weigh? Is he underweight or overweight or at his ideal weight?
We can calculate what the dose should be from his weight. Most cats rarely need more than 1U as a starting dose.

It's better to start low and go slow on the dose increases, so you do not bypass the good dose for your cat. We recommend only increasing in 0.25U increments.
 
Hi Shannon and extra sweet Goose! Maverick and Goose! It's clear we were meant to be friends with those awesome cat names! :mrgreen:

I'd watch the videos on home testing and give it a try. You got some great tips on home testing. Only other thing I do is test in the same spot. We had a towel on the kitchen floor and my girl knew that she was supposed to sit there and let me test. Took a few days for her to get it but she learned that if she sat there she'd get her ear prick and treat...followed by a meal!

Let us know if you have any questions. We're here to help!
 
WHOA! That dose may be too high!
If the insulin dose is too high, it can kill your cat.
- the disorientation could have been hypoglycemia, going too low.

Changing to canned low carb food can drop the glucose 100 mg/dL.
Glucose levels at the office can be 100 to 180 mg/dL higher than at home.
This means test levels at home can be almost 300 mg/dL lower than at the vet.
What number did the vet get?

How much does your cat weigh?
How much should your cat weigh?
Put the lower value in kilograms (ie, pounds/2.2)
Multiply by 0.25.
Round down to the nearest 0.25.
That is the estimated starting dose for Lantus.
 
Welcome. I am new too. The information on this message board has totally saved the day for Napa and me. It is definitely a bit overwhelming at first, but I took it one step at a time.

These recommendations (that I got here and generally supported by my vet) made a huge difference for us:
1. Start home testing. This was very difficult at first, but it's much, much easier now...everyone said it would get easier. There are videos out there; they helped.
2. Start home testing more systematically and use the spreadsheet template here. I resisted this because I don't like Google docs but am glad the generous folks here encouraged me to do so, because it makes tracking and sharing numbers much easier and it helps when trying to make sense out of the numbers and how to respond.
3. Take away all dry food....even the relatively low carb dry food. Low carb canned food only. (edit to add: be sure to do this gradually and carefully as it can upset GI and interact with insulin doses).

As far as injections go, folks here can give you lots of advice. The only thing I'll add is to take lots of deep breaths and just go slow. Double check your measurement or have your partner check, too. Pull the skin up to "tent" and also move a bit of fur away so you can better see the skin. After you inject...don't pull the needle out too fast, take just a second to see how the syringe looks and feels. Napa barely noticed the injections. The needle is so thin, I don't really feel the needle going in...it just glides in like a hot knife cutting butter.

Also, at some point, squirt a tiny bit of the insulin on a paper towel so you know what it smells like. Sometimes when I first started injections, I didn't get the insulin in and could smell it on Napa's fur (this phenomenon is known here as a "fur shot"). If that happened, I didn't give her another dose because missing a dose is not too bad, but a double dose could be really, really bad. But knowing that I might have missed helped me to understand the test numbers.
 
I don't know what number the vet got. He was over 300 after we changed food, but before insulin.

He was up at 18-19 lbs before. We started monitoring his food better to have him go to 16. When I saw him going under the weight we added more food back in. When that didn't change things that is when we went to the vet and got the diabetes diagnosis. He is about 15 lbs now.

I guess doing the math it would be 1.5 units.
I just wonder if the whole time he was loosing weight it was because he was sick and not because of the portion control. If so, that means it could have been months. Maybe he needs the higher dose for now.

He doesn't seem like he is reacting poorly to it. Today both kitties left food in their bowls. That is a first. I don't know what to think of it. It is a wait & see situation.

Thanks for the support. We need it.
 
If you can get a handle on the home testing, it's a huge benefit to know exactly what benefit Goose is getting from his insulin. If you think he might be feeling yucky, you can grab a test to see if he's running high, or possibly even low. Your description of his disorientation is potentially a red flag for hypo, and it's concerning.

If you check out the signatures of other members here, you can see that many of us keep spreadsheets to see patterns of our kitties' response to insulin. Eddie, my kitty, uses a different insulin than Goose, but we regularly adjust his dose based on what his numbers are. Lantus has an excellent protocol called "Tight Regulation" that can, in many cases, allow a kitty to go off insulin all together.

If Goose's reading of 300 was at the vet after switching to dry food, that reading could very well be falsely high. Kitties can run between 100 and 180 points higher due to vet stress, so his actual number could be 200 or lower. If his number is in the 200's without insulin, he may be going much lower on the insulin. The only way you can know for sure is to test. In fact 200 is the "no-shoot" number for "new beans" just starting to test, meaning that if a test just before a shot is 200 or lower, that's too low to safely shoot insulin.

You don't have to "wait and see" :smile: ; with home testing, you can see exactly what's going on. :smile: There are many, many folks here that can help guide you through this process, and many members that have a huge amount of experience with Lantus. With Goose's BG being only 300 at the vet before insulin, he may very well be able to go into remission with the help of careful insulin management.
 
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