New member:Peyton

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jcc1531

Member Since 2014
Hi everyone! My almost 18 year old cat Peyton has recently been diagnosed with diabetes again. He was diabetic many years ago but went into remission. He has been in kidney failure for almost 2 years and remaining stable. I noticed he had lost weight and was urinating more often so I took him in to the vet. He has been at the vet since Wednesday morning and I will be picking him up today. He is not yet stable but coming home.
He is on Humulin H and eating Hill's wd
Any tips or suggestions are welcome :)
Julie and Peyton
 
Welcome, there is no Humulin H. Do you mean Humulin N from Eli Lilly? That is not usually not a good insulin for cats.
Are you planning to test Peyton's blood sugar at home using a human meter? Most of us here do.
What are you feeding? A low-carb canned is desirable but you may be limited because of the kidney problems
 
Hi Julie and extra sweet Peyton and welcome to the FDMB! You're in the best place you never wanted to be!

First, the W/D is a high carb, expensive food, and even if your cat likes it, most cats get tired of it quickly so I'd recommend you take it back, get your money back (it's guaranteed) and go straight to WalMart (or wherever you want to buy cat food) for some Low Carb canned foods. It's important to feed less than 10% carbs to our diabetic kitties or it's like dumping gasoline on a fire to put it out...it just doesn't work! Depending on how bad Peyton's kidneys are, you might also want to look for foods that are lower in phosphorus. (under 250)

Next, we highly recommend learning to home test. You wouldn't give insulin to a child without knowing what their blood glucose was first, and it's the same with our cats! Again, WalMart is your friend! There's no need to buy an expensive "pet only" meter. Most of us use human glucometers, and WalMart's "Relion" brand are some of the best. Their Confirm and Micro take the tiniest blood sample, and the strips are reasonable as well as always available. You don't want to run out of strips at 3am when your cat is dropping too low, and being able to run to WalMart if necessary is really helpful!

There are really only 3 insulins that work well in cats. Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc. The first 2 require a prescription from your vet since they're human insulins, and ProZinc is only available at your vet's office. Cats have a very fast metabolism, and the Humulin insulin just don't last long enough in their bodies. You might want to ask your vet about switching to one of these others.

Here's our "getting started shopping list" that has the things you'll need:

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Let us know how we can help you, and ask all the questions you can think of! The people here are wonderful about sharing their time and knowledge and want to see you successful in treating Peyton!
 
Hi Julie and extra sweet kitty Peyton. Missy and Kitty thought you might be coming here to post. Glad you found us.

So, Peyton has kidney disease as well as diabetes. Would you tell us more about the kidney disease, what IRIS level if you know it, what food you were feeding for the kidney disease, any medications that Peyton is on including sub-q fluids if he's getting fluids.

I certainly hope your vet will prescribe either Lantus, Levimir or Prozinc insulins. There are cost saving programs for the Lantus and Levimir but it's only for the pen version, which is a miniature vial shaped like a pen for easy carrying. Your vet needs to write the prescription for the pen, or the pharmacist will only be able to sell you the 10mL vial.

I think the AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats is a nice starting place for reading up on some of the more recent trends in treating diabetes. These were published in a vet journal back in 2010.

Please let us know what questions you may have.

Welcome home Peyton, and give him some hugs from us.
 
Hi Julie!

I'm so glad that you're here! You and Peyton are in such good hands with these guys. I know everything is pretty scary and overwhelming right now, but these guys are going to walk you through everything. You can do this!
:RAHCAT
 
If you've not already see it, go to Tanya's Feline CRF web site for good info on feline renal disease.

Also at Cat Info, Dr Pierson discusses the renal diets and suggests it is more important to lower phosphorus in early stages of the disease, rather than reducing protein per se. Friskies Special Diet pates are both low carb AND low phosphorus and may be helpful in managing both conditions.
 
Thank you all so much for your replies. Peyton has been in kidney failure for almost 2 years and has maintained IRIS stage 3. He has been eating whatever I could get him to eat which was basically canned friskies or fancy feast pates and I would add ALOH binder to them. He has been doing very well until this drastic weight loss that turns out to be diabetes.
Peyton was diabetic YEARS ago and went into remission. Suing that time he was on Humulin U which I don't believe is on the market any longer and ate Hill's WD. I see it is high in carbs and he should be having low carb.
The vet has him on 1.5 units twice a day of Humulin N. I will talk with him next week about the insulin a you all have suggested.
Medications he is currently on are: enalapril for blood pressure, ALOH binder added to his food for phosphorus control and occasionally Miralax for constipation. Should I worry about any of these with the diabetes?
I have been a member of Tanya's CKD since Peyton was diagnosed with kidney failure and they have helped us immensely. I wish I could use the "special diets" since they are low in phosphorus but they are not good for kidney cats.
What I don't understand is how I can feed him regular can food under 10% carbs and keep him stable but that would be WONDERFUL!!!
I am headed to Walmart to get the supplies list so I will have everything I need. I am good at giving the insulin injection but as I told Missy privately the thought if poking his little ear gives me the heebie-jeebies! Any tips or videos on this will be most helpful. Thank you all so much for your suggestions. If you think if anything I need to know please feel free to overload me :) I like to learn...only when it comes to my pets. Lol
Julie and Peyton
 
Hi Julie!

Not sure why you think you can't use the "Special Diets" Friskies...they are fine for kidney cats because they ARE low phosphorus! We have lots of kidney cats eating Friskies Special Diet Turkey&Giblets because it's both low carb and low phosphorus

If you're using a binder, from what I understand, that's supposed to help with the phosphorus anyway..."binding" it so it doesn't get released into the bloodstream and then have to be dealt with by the kidneys.

A lot of us use Miralax for constipation too, so that's fine for Peyton too! The enalapril is fine too

There are lots of video's on YouTube on how to test blood glucose in cats. This is one of my favorites since it has close ups and explanations.
[youtube]_zE12-4fVn8[/youtube]

When you go to buy lancets, get ones marked for "Alternate Site Testing" (26 or 28 gauge)...for new ears, they make a little bigger "hole" when you poke. Once Peyton's ears "learn to bleed", you can use the higher gauge lancets, like 30-33 gauge

Here are some other Ear testing tips that can be helpful. It really does get easier, and most cats get to the point where they will come running when they hear us fooling with the meter (REALLY!!) It doesn't hurt..most cats just don't like their ears fooled with, but once they get used to it (and know they're going to get a treat!), they let us fool all we want

I'd really suggest getting one of the better insulins for cats. It's really that important to be using an insulin that works well for them but I understand you may have to discuss this with your vet (or find one that understands feline diabetes a little better)

Good luck, and let us know how we can help you!!
 
I think it has to do with the ph in the special diets. I'm not sure the exact reason but have been told by Tanya's site they are not the best for kidney cats. From the look of things there are plenty others to choose from. Do you recommend I immediately stop the WD and use a food from the list? He did so well on the WD years ago but it is low calorie and he needs to gain weight.
Thank you or the video! Peyton cannot stand for me to touch his ears. I hope he becomes one of the kitties that eventually comes running. Lol
 
China was the same way about me touching her ears. This is what I suggest for everyone:
Decide where you want your "testing spot" to be..a counter, table, certain spot on the floor, rug..wherever you can access the cat and the supplies. I use a counter that has the wall along the back and to the left so 2 ways of "escape" are already blocked for me...LOL

As many times a day as you can, take Peyton there and just give his ears a quick rub and then give him a yummy treat. The more you do that, the more he'll learn to associate that place with the treats, and not so much that you're fooling with his ears! It works! (of course they need to be Low carb treats too) You can also just use petting, brushing or anything else that Peyton really loves.

To get the blood glucose under control, you're going to need to reduce the carbs in his food, but if you're already giving the Humulin N, you don't want to reduce the carbs overnight! You could send his blood glucose too low and end up dealing with a hypo. Gradually transition him over to the lower carb foods. Try mixing the WD and low carb and each day gradually add more low carb and reduce the WD until he's totally switched over.
 
Switching about 20-25% of the food per day is less likely to trigger inappetance, diarrhea, or vomiting.
 
Hi guys,

Julie is right, Tanya's site doesn't recommend feeding a cat with kidney disease acidified foods:
Many commercial cat foods are acidified in order to reduce the risk of FLUTD (feline lower urinary tract disease. These foods often say that they are designed to maintain urinary tract health; or they may contain cranberries or additional Vitamin C. However, these foods (which are actually designed to treat a different kind of problem to CKD) may have the effect of increasing the amounts of potassium lost in the urine, which is bad for CKD cats. It is therefore best not to feed acidified foods to CKD cats, who tend to have quite high acid levels anyway.
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Feeding potassium-restricted acidified diets to cats with normal renal function reduces gastro-intestinal absorption of potassium and may therefore lead to potassium depletion. I therefore would not recommend feeding such diets to older cats; and these diets should not be fed to CKD cats anyway
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.
 
Cat Info has phosphorus values on the food list for regular OTC foods. You may find something on the list you can work with.
 
He has been eating whatever I could get him to eat which was basically canned friskies or fancy feast pates and I would add ALOH binder to them.
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The Friskies pates and Fancy Feast pates are 2 of the low carb <10% foods we recommend for diabetic kitties. They do tend to be higher in phosphorus than a cat with CKD should eat. The fish flavors especially will be higher in phosphorus.

I'm looking at the ingredients for the Friskies Special Diet cat food and don't see any acidifying ingredients. No cranberries or Vitamin C are in the ingredients list. Can someone point out to me what are the bad ingredients in here for a kitty with CKD? So I could learn more. Sure would appreciate it.

Meat by-products, water sufficient for processing, turkey, poultry by-products, poultry giblets, brewers rice, salt, guar gum, potassium chloride, added color, carrageenan, taurine, zinc sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, calcium pantothenate, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, biotin, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, potassium iodide.

Do you recommend I immediately stop the WD and use a food from the list? He did so well on the WD years ago but it is low calorie and he needs to gain weight.
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If he needs to gain weight, than the Hill's W/d is absolutely the wrong food for him as it's meant for weight loss and is calorie restricted as you mentioned. I would not recommend an immediate switch to one of the low carb foods on the list until you are successfully home testing. Since Peyton is on insulin already, this could cause a steep drop in his BG levels. Once you are successfully home testing, it's easier to help keep your kitty safe from a large drop in BG levels with BG monitoring and food intervention. A switch now to a lower carb content food could put Peyton at risk of hypo. We don't know how low the Humulin N is dropping him at mid-cycle (+3 to +4 hours post shot) and the NPH type insulins drop kitties hard and fast. We don't want Peyton to have a hypoglycemic episode. "Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment." At least within reason.
 
Huh! You're right, Deb! I didn't see anything acidifying either. Maybe they've changed ingedients since Helen (Tanya's) added that to her site? I'll have to ask her. Interesting!

Julie, when Kitty was diagnosed, I switched her to the Friskies Turkey and Giblets pate and Mixed Grill pate because they were lower in carbs. She has done very well with those, and I was even feeding them to Tuff. I added the binder to them, and he was good to go. I switched him to better quality food a little later on, but he did fine with the binder added to the Friskies. He's been getting Evo 95% Chicken and Turkey and several Weruva flavors; all but one are low carb, and he's gained almost a pound! He's been sick lately and has turned his nose up to the expensive food, but he will eat the Friskies, so that's what he's getting right now. My boy's gotta eat! :-D

I'm trying to figure out why your vet sold you weight loss food. How much does Peyton weigh? He didn't look overweight in the picture you posted on Facebook. If he's not overweight and you want him to gain some back, what are your thoughts on the Astro's Protein Powder? It's supposed to help the cat gain back muscle but not increase the BUN/CREA. From what I understand, you don't have to be feeding a low protein diet to be able to use it.
 
Wow! You all have been busy while I was away. Ha! Thank you!
Yesterday I bought a meter, lancets, strips, neosporin and a few different flavors of low carb foods. I am going to watch several videos this morning on how to check blood glucose. Chris sent me a wonderful video yesterday. I am very afraid to do this but I know the first time I do it I will be very proud of the both of us. It has to be done and I have to learn!
This morning Peyton is just laying around which is fairly usual but he doesn't want to eat. He is used to me offering him a variety of things if he will not eat one. It's killing me not to give him something else. Should I go ahead try mixing some of the WD with low carb friskies? He's it eating and hanging out by the water bowl. It is so hard to determine if it's kidney related or diabetes. Looks like he's headed to his bed now :)

Questions:
How long do I wait after he has eaten to check his glucose? I know I need to check before giving it to him but shouldn't I be checking between meals also?
My vet said "if he doesn't eat don't give him the insulin." Correct?
What is my goal for his BG level?

I'm about to figure out this BG testing because it's killing me not knowing if he's too high or too low.

Missy, before I found out about the diabetes I was going to order the Astro's Protein Powder. If it will not interfere with the diabetes then I will go ahead.
Thank you all very much!
Julie...one scared Momma!
 
With Humulin N, the nadir, or lowest glucose level between shots, is around +3 to +4 hours after the shot.

The nadir should stay above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer.
 
We did it!!!! Now I'm nervous of the results! It didn't come up with a number, only read "hi". I just read in the book that if your blood glucose is above 600 mg/dL, you will receive a "Hi" result. I'm going to test him again to make sure there wasn't a mistake. He has not eaten since about midnight last night.
Julie
 
Oh no! This time I got an error message. I don't think there was enough blood. Now I don't know what to do. I have not given him his insulin today because he hasn't eaten. Should I go ahead and give it to him??? Why hasn't he eaten??? I'm in tears!
Julie
 
Great job getting that first test in! Testing at home will tell you so much important information about how well the insulin is working for Peyton.

By the way, I'm Shelly and my cat's name is Jersey. Welcome to FDMB! We started out using Humulin in January and switched to Lantus in February. The Humulin caused sharp drops in Jersey's sugar levels and wore off quickly. In fact, the drops were so drastic that I ended up skipping a lot of shots because I couldn't be home to monitor her, and I was afraid to leave her without any monitoring. We were on Lantus for about 2 months before Jersey went into remission.

Should I go ahead try mixing some of the WD with low carb friskies?
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Many people will mix the old food with the new food to help their kitties through a food transition.

How long do I wait after he has eaten to check his glucose? I know I need to check before giving it to him but shouldn't I be checking between meals also?
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You're absolutely right - you should check in between shots! We need to know how low the dose takes him. If a given dose takes him too low (below 50), then we know we need to decrease the dose. Generally, we test right before each insulin shot and then several times in between shots. You can look at some of the members' spreadsheets (located in their "signatures" at the bottom of their posts) to see when/how often they test. Since you're just starting out, you'll probably want to test more often right now so that you can see how Peyton is reacting to the insulin. Patterns will emerge that will tell you when the insulin starts working, when it's at its peak, etc. "Normal" numbers for a cat are between 50 and 120.

I'm not sure how often you're feeding Peyton. One of the recommendations I received was to feed small meals frequently. Smaller meals are less taxing on the pancreas, which can assist in the healing process. Also, Peyton will probably be quite hungry until his numbers get better regulated. When the numbers are high, the kitty's body can't properly process the food. Thus, the kitty needs to eat more.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions. Make sure you ask all of the questions you have or keep asking the same question if something one of us says doesn't make sense! :-D

Congratulations again on your first test!
Shelly
 
First, remain calm. It takes a while to get testing to work well.
Second, yes, test again if the number seems unusual. Two or more tests with similar results - within 20% or each other - and you can be sure they're reasonably correct.
Third, if a test fails and you've got more strips, try again.

And if he's reading "HI", shoot. The insulin will let him use the glucose in his blood. As that comes down, he is likely to feel hungry and eat. Not shooting when he is way high may leave him feeling sick, plus he'll likely be breaking down fat for calories which you don't want.
 
Thank you BJM and Shelly. I was more upset over sticking him twice than anything. I'm testing him again because he seems very lethargic. I'll check back in just a few minutes.
Julie
 
Julie,

I'm sorry - we cross-posted, so I missed your last post (before mine). Hang in there. It can be tough to get "in the groove" of testing. I promise, it does get easier. I was in tears the first few times we tried to test Jersey. In desperation one day, I poked her paw instead of her ear. Bingo - that was what worked for us! You'll find the methods that work best for you, too.

I know it's also hard to see those high numbers. The numbers will improve, though. It just takes time. As many people told me, Jersey didn't become diabetic overnight, and I wasn't going to be able to "cure" her overnight, either. It's so hard when we just want to fix them now.

Deep breath. You can absolutely do this!
Shelly
 
A dab of Neoaporin oinment (not cream) with pain relief may be applied a few minutes before testing, then wiped off well. The ointment helps the blood bead up and the little prick hole to heal.

Also aplly direct pressure firmly to the ear after getting the sample. This reduces bruising. You can scoop the droplet onto a clean fingernail and test from there, too.
 
Just knowing you all are here is calming :)
I tested him again and it read "hi" again so I went ahead and gave him the insulin. I left him in his room with 90% WD/10%can friskies. He seemed more interested in this but we will see. So when his numbers are real high he will either be extremely hungry or not hungry at all? I'm trying to learn the signs.
I can't wait to talk to my vet about lantus. He didn't even mention that one as an option.
Julie
 
We have a slogan here that "every cat is different (ECID)." Many cats are extremely hungry when sugars are high because their bodies can't get the necessary energy out of their food. Jersey was always like that. Many other cats seem to feel miserable when their sugars are high, so they don't eat/are lethargic. It's so hard to give you a definitive answer on why Peyton doesn't want to eat.

My vet didn't mention Lantus either. In fact, Jersey was diagnosed with diabetes in November (2013), and the vet put her on W/D dry food, saying that this diet change alone could bring her into remission. In January, he prescribed Humulin. It was only then that I started doing my research and found that, by blindly following my vet's advice, I had probably done more harm than good. I went to a second vet who was a bit more knowledgeable and wrote us a prescription for Lantus. He didn't understand dosing at all, though, and we ended up just getting our dosing advice from the people here. I credit FDMB with Jersey's remission.

Once you catch your breath, we'll help you get set up with a spreadsheet. We use the spreadsheet to track our kitty's numbers. That way, others can see the pattern in the numbers and give us dosing advice. Let me know when you're ready for the instructions. I don't want to overwhelm you with too much all at once. I know how stressful this all is in the beginning!
 
Yes, too much glucose may make a cat feel sick as may not enough.

Vets have to treat numerous species with numerous conditions. It is extremely difficult to stay up on everything. Your vet is probably out of date. Also, Lantus is pretty expensive upfront and many folks can't or won't do that; they'll put the cat to sleep. That's another reason vets won't mention higher end insulins or home testing.

There are some tactics to get Lantus less expensively such as buying by the pen (3mL, 300 units each), checking local Craigslist for it, and coupon or Rx discount programs (ex GoodRX)
Other suitable cat insulins are ProZinc, BCP PZI, and Levemir (also pricey)
 
Just for future reference, how much is the lantus and about how long will a bottle last?

How long after this insulin injection should I wait to test again? Did I read 3-4 hours?
Unfortunately he did not eat the mixture of WD with a little friskies. I am going to look at the low carb treat list and at least see if he will eat a little snack. It will make my hart feel better :) any favorites?
Julie and Peyton
 
Definitely grab a test no later than +3 (3 hours after the shot). Since this is the first time shooting and testing, we don’t know how quickly Peyton will respond to the insulin or how low it will take him. Better to err on the side of caution!

This post discusses how to deal with low numbers. I would recommend printing it out just in case you are dealing with low numbers and can’t get online:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

This is link explains how to get Lantus for less:

http://fdmb-cin.blogspot.com/2013/11/lantus.html

Lantus comes in either a vial or a pen. I bought the vial for $220 at Wal-Mart. The pens come in a 5-pack. Some pharmacies will break up the pack and sell the pens individually. I live in a relatively small town and couldn’t find a pharmacy to do that for me. I know some people have had really good luck getting single pens at Target pharmacies. With the savings card (mentioned in the link above), I think some people have gotten a pen for about $25. Don’t hold me to that, though. I never tried any of those methods since I had to buy the Lantus on short notice.

Most often, people can use the Lantus for several months (up to about 6 months) before it loses its potency.

People use all different kinds of low-carb treats for their kitties. A lot of cats really seem to like the PureBites treats. Jersey wasn't one of them, but she loves the Orijen treats. A lot of people also use Forti-Flora to entice their cats to eat. I haven’t personally used it, but apparently it’s pretty irresistible. You just sprinkle it on top of the cat’s food.

Hope this helps!
 
Lantus is pricey! The 10mg vial is around $200, and the box of 5 Solostar Pens is more (but with the pens, you get 5 "pens" of 3ml each and you can use every drop...where the vials will usually lose effectiveness before you've used them up). The good news is that the vial will last up to 6 months if cared for properly, and the pens will last until the expiration date on the box (usually at least a year) Some pharmacists will tell you it's only good for 28 days....that's for humans and doesn't take into consideration that we take very good care of our insulin!

But you can also look for Lantus on Craigs List (but you need to know what to ask and what to look for when buying off of Craigs List) ....some people will give it to you free if they know it's for a cat, but I've seen prices like $5 and $10 a piece for pens

There's also a Lantus Savings Card that lets you pay only $25 for the first 3 prescriptions IF you can find a pharmacy that will split open a box and sell you one at a time. Also, you have to either say you're 18 years old or the caretaker of a child to get the card....and sometimes pharmacies aren't taking it without a new registration number that Vets can't get. If you have a "friendly" relationship with a pharmacist, it's worth asking about!

Retest at +3 (at least)...there's no such thing as "Too much testing" though! The more data you have, the better you're going to know how Peyton responds.

You do NOT want to quickly switch to low carb food since you're giving insulin! Make sure you go slowly as you wean him off the high carb food while you're learning to test. You don't want to have to deal with a hypo if you don't have to!
 
jcc1531 said:
Just for future reference, how much is the lantus and about how long will a bottle last?
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It is running upwards of $200 to $250 per 10 mL vial. Each mL has 100 units, so that is 1,000 units. At 1 unit twice a day, it would last 500 days ... except the insulin tends to wimp out at 6 months, even if refrigerated. The pharmacist will say 28 days only because that is how long it was tested to remain stable. Refrigerated and stored on a stationary shelf, it can last up to 6 months.

Getting the Lantus Solor Star pens 1 at a time or even biting the bullet to get the 5 pack is more economical as there are 300 units per pen, so you often finish the pen before the insulin wears out. You still use a syringe to get the insulin out of the pen, not the pen needles.

jcc1531 said:
Did I read 3-4 hours?
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Yes, Humulin hits its peak effectiveness/lowest glucose about 3-4 hours after a shot and often wears off by +6 to +8 hours after the shot.

jcc1531 said:
Unfortunately he did not eat the mixture of WD with a little friskies.
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Wait for the insulin to kick in; he may eat then.
 
jcc1531 said:
Just for future reference, how much is the lantus and about how long will a bottle last?
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If I remember correctly, 5 Lantus SoloStar pens cost me a little over $200 at Walmart. I got the discount card through Lantus, and I was able to get about $100 back (I don't know that all places will do that, but Walmart did). It would be helpful to get a few pens at a time instead of the box like I did. The Lantus savings card says you will pay no more than $25 on up to three pen prescriptions. That's not bad!

I don't know anything about how long it will last though since Kitty only needed two shots before she went into remission. I'll leave that for the professionals to answer. :mrgreen:

Shelly & Jersey said:
He didn't understand dosing at all, though, and we ended up just getting our dosing advice from the people here. I credit FDMB with Jersey's remission.
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Exactly! My vet was wanting me to use Vetsulin, so when I told him I wanted Lantus instead, he acted like he was OK with it, but then told me that he didn't know anything about the dosing, so I was on my own. I think he was trying to discourage me from using it, but the awesome folks here helped me out, and I also credit the FDMB for helping us go into remission.
 
That price isn't too bad since it lasts so long. Thank you all for the information. Peyton is sleeping peacefully now and not hovering over the water bowl. I tested my own glucose to make sure the monitor was working correctly...it is :)
I'll be back later with his post shot level.
Julie and peyton
 
Finally got a good stick with enough blood!!! That was hard and heart breaking but we did it. At 1:00 the reading read "Hi" which the books says means that blood glucose is 600+. Just tested at 5:00 and the reading was 265. Still too high but I don't know what to do. He hasn't eaten since last night besides some dries chicken flakes. What do I do now?
Julie
 
do you have something you know he will eat?

If you have some treats or even kibble you know he'll eat, try crushing them and sprinkling some on his wet food....other things that sometimes work are oregano, parmesan cheese, catnip, or Forti Flora (you can get that at your vet or from Amazon...it's the same animal digest powder that they spray on the outside of kibble to make it so irresistible)

Tuna water (make sure it's not tuna in vegetable oil or water...has onions/garlic) is another option

And that's a pretty significant drop too! From 600+ to 200+ is around 400 points! But that's also the problem with Humulin...you get a fast drop like that, and then it wears off....and when you get a fast drop like that, then he'll probably "bounce".

Bouncing happens when their blood glucose goes into lower numbers their body isn't used to anymore, so the liver releases hormones and sugars to bring it up fast..It can also happen when they have a fast drop like that, so I wouldn't be surprised if you get another "Hi" later on tonight
 
I went to Petsmart and bought some of the pure bites freeze dried chicken. Gave him some WD with that sprinkled in. He ate about a tablespoon. That's more than he's eaten all day. How many treats are too many treats?
 
Personally, I wouldn't worry about the number of treats right now. Since they're pure chicken, they won't hurt him, and it's really important that he eats. If his appetite hasn't improved by morning, I would really recommend a vet visit. One other issue to be concerned about is ketones. Chris (and China) wrote the following about ketones in response to another member:

Ketones are produced when the body starts to break down fat to use as fuel. This occurs when there is too little insulin for the amount of glucose in the body....the body is supposed to use glucose for energy, but without enough insulin, the glucose stays in the bloodstream instead of "feeding" the cells, so the body finds a way to "feed" itself.

As fat continues to be used, ketones continue to rise and can result in a condition called Diabetic Ketoacidosis, or DKA. DKA is very serious and very expensive to treat (and not always successfully), so it's best to catch ketones early, when it's still possible to flush them from the body and get them under control.

The recipe for DKA is "too little insulin+infection/inflammation+not enough food"
Click to expand...

When a kitty's numbers are high, we recommend testing for ketones. You can buy the test strips at Wal-Mart or a pharmacy. (They're with the diabetic supplies.) Just hold the strip under the urine stream and then compare it to the color chart on the bottle. If there's a trace or more, either post here and ask for help or call your vet. I'm not trying to worry you more - which I know this does. I just want to make sure we try to get all of the bases covered.
 
Yikes! That does sound scary! I just have him a handful of the freeze dried chicken and he likes it. Hopefully he will eat something later. Even with being in kidney failure for 2 years he has never gone this long without good. But before this there were many other things I could offer him. Since he was started on the WD and this insulin now we are limited until I can switch him. I have always been able to make him feel better and this time I'm getting my butt kicked. I'm so scared something bad is going to happen. Thank you all for your support!
Julie and Peyton
 
Julie,

Congratulations and welcome to the Vampire Club! You got your first successful BG test for Peyton! Good job! It takes time to get good at it.

My best advice? Deep breathing exercises. Deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release, repeat. It helps to calm you down for this scary sugardance you are doing with Peyton and if you're calm, Peyton will be calm.

You've gotten some fantastic help and feedback today! We're throwing out a lot of new information at you, so do please go back through all the replies and make sure you understanding everything. Ask all the questions you need to, as many times as you need to. Sometimes, a slightly different explanation can make that lightbulb turn on and you understand the point we are trying to make. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.

It's a lot to take in, but we are here to help you all along the way. We have your back and will help you as much as we can. The Feline Health board has it's quiet moments but it also gets busy sometimes and it takes time to get around to ready all the messages. If you ever have an emergency, put that 911 icon on your very first post in this topic to get our attention. You'll need to open the post, go to your first entry and click the little Edit check box to change the icon. Or alternatively, post a new topic with the 911 icon and scream for help.

Where do you live? We have people from all across the US and Canada and folks from around the world.
 
If he likes the freeze dried chicken, maybe you could try crumbling some up on top of his food

Might get him to eat some more!

It is important that you test for ketones, especially with him registering "hi" on the meter. The strips are less than $10 (if I remember right) at WalMart. Here are some Urine testing tips too.

You should also be working on getting a spreadsheet set up. There's just no better tool we have to help really see how he's doing and it's something you'll really need to have in your signature. It's really not hard to set up and once it is, all you have to do is type in the numbers. It color codes on it's own (although if it's "hi", you'll have to put in "hi" and then click on the little icon that looks like a small can of paint tipping over and choose the correct color...black)

If you need help, let us know! We have people who can set it up for you if you have trouble

Also, it'll be helpful to go ahead and add some information into your signature line. Go to the "User Control Panel" (top left side of page) and choose "Profile". Then go to "Edit Signature" and fill in the box and "Submit". Some things to add would be your name/cats name, type of insulin you're using, type of meter, food you're feeding, any other health problems, etc. When you change insulins, you can just go back and "edit" it again to change that (this is hoping you'll be able to go ahead and get Peyton on one of the three insulins that work best in cats of course)

Let us know if you need some help with anything!
 
We will be going to the vet tomorrow. Something is not right. I don't know if it's the diabetes or his kidneys but he needs to be checked out. He will walk fine for a short distance and then it's like he either gets weak or his back end gives out. Not sure if he has high phosphorus, high potassium or if the diabetes is causing this.

He ate fairly well about an hour ago and his BG was 369. I gave him his second dose of Novolin N (1.5u).

Can someone help me with a spreadsheet??? I'll need the cliff notes for dummies :?

Summary of today:
This morning he did not eat so I skipped his insulin per vet instructions.
1:00 learned how to check BG and registered "Hi" meaning 600+
1:00 gave 1.5u Novolin N
3:45 ate dried chicken flakes
5:00 BG registered 265
5:00 ate about a Tbsp can wd with dried chicken flakes
7:00 ate dried flakes
10:00 BG registered 369
10:00 gave 1.5u Novolin N
10:00 ate 1 1/2 Tbsp wd with dried chicken flakes

I just realized this bottle says Novolin N and not Humulin N???

I hope my vet will be on board with the lantus! I reeeeeeeally don't want to have to switch vets.
Julie
 
With a CKD kitty, I'd worry about low potassium if his legs are wobbly. Or it could be diabetic neuropathy. I would get it checked out. Most people in this forum give Zobaline for diabetic neuropathy. Low potassium must be managed by the vet.

I'm going to send you a private message and help you with your SS. So just check your messages by going to the upper left corner of the forum and ok for "1 new message".

Novolin N and Humulin N are the same thing just different manufacturers.
 
Tanya's site says this about diabetic neuropathy:
Cats with diabetic neuropathy often benefit from Vitamin B12 in the form of methylcobalamin.
Click to expand...
If Peyton's potassium levels are where they should be, then I would suggest adding B-12 to his regimen. It wouldn't hurt, plus it can help with his appetite and give him energy. It's helped bring Tuff's HCT back up over 30%. I just checked out Zobaline, and it looks like it's B-12 methyl as well! Excellent! CKD cats usually get 500mcg a day. You can order capsules from Vitacost pretty cheap. I'll send you the link if you are interested. It doesn't have any taste as far as I can tell, and Tuff doesn't mind it mixed in with his canned food. It turns pink when it gets wet.
 
Hi Julie,

Here are some instructions for the spreadsheet:

1. First of all, you’ll need to set up a Google account if you don’t have one already. Here’s the link for it: https://accounts.google.com/SignUp?continue=https://accounts.google.com/ManageAccount

2. Once you set up your account, make sure you are signed in to it. Then click on this link: https://drive.google.com/previewtem...U5BVEdyU1dGZmx5bnRvdG10OWc&mode=public&pli=1#

3. This will bring up the template that you can use. In the upper, left-hand corner of the page, it says “Use this template.” Click on that.

4. Now you have your own copy of the template. At the top, left-hand corner of the page, click on “File” and then choose “Rename.” You can now change the name of your spreadsheet (e.g., “Peyton's Chart”).

5. Once you finish entering the date, numbers, etc., you will need to publish your spreadsheet. Click on “File” again and then click on “publish to the web.” A little pop-up box will appear. You will want to make sure that the box that says “automatically republish when changes are made” has a checkmark next to it. Then click on “start publishing.”

6. Now, you need to make sure other people can see your spreadsheet. Click on the blue “share” button on the upper right-hand corner of the page. A pop-up box will appear. Where it says “private,” change that to “anyone with the link can see” and click save at the bottom of the box.

7. Finally, you have to add the spreadsheet to your FDMB account. First copy the web address that appears in the address bar on your spreadsheet. Come back to FDMB and click on “User Control Panel” at the top left-hand side of the page. Then click on the tab that says “Profile” Next, click on the tab that says “Edit Signature.” There’s a little “url” button at the top of the box where you write. Click on it. This is what will show up in the box:



Click in between the middle brackets and paste the web address for the spreadsheet that you created.

In the end, it will look something like this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...out lots of prayers for Peyton today. Shelly
 
jcc1531 said:
...He ate fairly well about an hour ago and his BG was 369. I gave him his second dose of Novolin N (1.5u). ...
Click to expand...

If 1.5 units dropped him about 400 mg/dL, you may have shot too much this morning and his glucose could drop too low - hypoglycemia - which can kill.
You may need to intervene to keep him safe.
Do you have any Karo syrup available?
How long has it been, in hours since you gave insulin?
If more than 1 hour, can you get another test in now?
 
I am about to take him to the vet and have his potassium, phosphorus, ketones etc checked. Plus ask about getting Lantus.
Peyton woke me up at 6:00 to eat and he ate a tablespoon of can WD with dried chicken flakes mixed in. I checked his glucose at 8:00 and he registered "Hi" again. Gave him his insulin (1.5u Novolin N) and another bowl of food.
I had to go to work :( but am headed home now to pick him up and take him to the vet.
Any suggestions as to what else to check him for?
Ketones, phosphorus, potassium...
Get B12 injection

Thanks!!!
Julie and peyton
 
Is the comfortis pill for fleas ok for a diabetic cat? We are having a flea issue and I am scared of topical treatments on an 18 year old cat in kidney failure.
Thanks!
Julie and Peyton
 
What does the vet and labeling on the box say?

A quick kill option is Capstar, which will knock out a lot of the adult fleas the day taken (ie must give daily, which is pricey). Again, though, check with the vet and the labeling for risks with renal disease.

Using a flea comb with a bowl of soapy water to shake the fleas, larvae, and eggs into works, and takes some time
.
Fleas and mosquitoes tend to dislike members of the mum family due to naturally present pyretrins - plant mums and marigolds aroung the yard.

Using food grade diatomaceous earth in the environment may be helpful. It is a very fine powder comprised of the exoskeletons of diatoms. It cuts through the insects outer chitin resulting in dessication and death. May irritate sensitive lungs, so wear a mask and put it down when the cat is not in the room. Do not use where you need earthworms or beneficial nematodes and grubs.
 
How's Peyton doing today, Julie?

Your friend, Missy tells me you got your vet to prescribe the Lantus! This is great news, but most vets don't really understand how to dose Lantus, and will start you at too high a dose, so it's important that before you start, you might want to let us help you!

We'd just need to know how much Peyton weighs...and if he's underweight, overweight or at his ideal weight.

Hope to hear from you soon so we can help you!
 
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