New member, new to testing, not-new diabetic! Nervous about lower AMPS after dose increase

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Whitney and Jonas

Whitney and Jonas

Member Since 2020
Hi! My name is Whitney. I’m new to this forum after finding it in google searches. My kitty, Jonas, is not a new diabetic—I don’t have his exact date of diagnosis and need to call the vet for that record, but it’s been several years. Our vet is wonderful but never suggested home testing, only yearly check-ins at their office. I think we’re very lucky that nothing bad happened to Jonas after blindly shooting for years.

I recently began home testing in the morning and evenings with some checks during the day (I am working from home until July because of covid) and we have been seeing lots of 400s and 300s. Last night we increased to 3.5 U of Prozinc (from 3 and 3.125 depending on his readings). This morning, he had an all-time low for him at 151 AMPS. I know that’s great, but I’m also scared that it means something is wrong?

For now I’m holding off an hour to see where he goes, but does anyone have any insight as to why he would have gone from 472 at PMPS, 375 at +3 before I went to bed, and to 151 at AMPS? I’m a very anxious person anyways, especially with my kitties, and my mind is racing with scary meanings behind this drop. Could the dose increase alone have caused the drop this fast?

Someone threw up overnight which is compounding my fear, but I highly suspect one of his sisters who is a lifelong scarf and barfer—it was consistent with her usual shape and size of puke, and in a location she often goes to when she throws up. Jonas also yowls before he pukes and I’ve always jolted awake to the sound. Still really worried though lol, my mind is a mess and I’m scared of him being sick. He seems perky and normal this morning though, he even meowed at and ran after the dog to play!

I’m on my phone but will get his SS set up as soon as I can sit at my computer and have a break from work. I’m just really nervous and wanted to get this posted. Thank you all very much and God bless you all for your help. I’m usually very shy and nervous on forums but I have never seen such a group of dedicated people.
 
Welcome to FDMB! Glad you found us. Hold on for more replies as I cannot give dosing advice. I just wanted to great you and let you know you've found the bast darn place to help Jonas become the best diabetic kitty he can be!
Hold on for more replies there are folks here that can help you decipher whats going on wit Jonas!
jeanne
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB! Glad you found us. Hold on for more replies as I cannot give dosing advice. I just wanted to great you and let you know you've found the bast darn place to help Jonas become the best diabetic kitty he can be!
Hold on for more replies there are folks here that can help you decipher whats going on wit Jonas!
jeanne
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Jeanne, Thank you so much for your kind words! I appreciate it. I really wish I would have found this forum sooner. Joe is about 15 or 16 and he is in excellent health apart from his diabetes, and I want to make sure it stays that way. I feel awful that I haven't tested all this time and wish I would have researched more and not blindly followed the vet! He has sought out some food and is still super perky, I'm about to test him again and see where we're at :)
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
BTW Joe is A D O R A B L E! ...:bighug:
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Oh, thank you so much Jeanne!! :) He is my handsome boy. I say that if Fabio were to take the form of a kitty, he'd look like Jonas, lol!

I hope this was the right decision but I have some meetings for the next couple hours before I can test him again. He'd gone up to 343 (he has eaten) so I went ahead and gave him a reduced dose of 2U and I'll be able to check him again around 11:30 (it's 9:45 here now) :) My mom has health issues and we live together, so she is here to make sure he's acting normally!
 
Whitney and Jonas said:
Oh, thank you so much Jeanne!! :) He is my handsome boy. I say that if Fabio were to take the form of a kitty, he'd look like Jonas, lol!

I hope this was the right decision but I have some meetings for the next couple hours before I can test him again. He'd gone up to 343 (he has eaten) so I went ahead and gave him a reduced dose of 2U and I'll be able to check him again around 11:30 (it's 9:45 here now) :) My mom has health issues and we live together, so she is here to make sure he's acting normally!
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That sounds like a plan! and a good one at that;)
 
Hi Whitney and welcome to you and Jonas!

I think you made the right decision. This is what we always advise: hold off on feeding, retest and if they numbers went up to a safe number shoot. Since you did feed him, giving a token dose I think was the right choice. I’m not an expert on prozync other than what I read about here and I think it’s a faster acting insulin than Lantus. Can’t advice you on dosage moving forward but I’m tagging @Deb & Wink here who is much wiser when it comes to your insulin. She usually comes on in the evenings. Once you set up your ss, she’ll be able to help you better and others as well. While you do that, can you also please set up your signature? It helps members who come on to guide you see the basics about Jonas right away. Here’s a link for instructions on both:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

I also just want to say that like you I spent months not home testing and relying on the monthly checkups at the vet for dose adjustments. We’re lucky indeed that both our kitties did well despite us not knowing better, but I also really blame the vets and the veterinary community as a whole. We hear the same over and over from folks here and that’s the advice that all vets seem to dish out. To make matters worst, some group dogs and cats together in the way they plan the care and treatment of diabetes when they’re not the same animal/species. I don’t know how to go about changing that, but we sure need to for all the diabetic cats out there!!

welcome and let’s focus on what we can do from here on out my friend :bighug:
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Hi Whitney and welcome to you and Jonas!

I think you made the right decision. This is what we always advise: hold off on feeding, retest and if they numbers went up to a safe number shoot. Since you did feed him, giving a token dose I think was the right choice. I’m not an expert on prozync other than what I read about here and I think it’s a faster acting insulin than Lantus. Can’t advice you on dosage moving forward but I’m tagging @Deb & Wink here who is much wiser when it comes to your insulin. She usually comes on in the evenings. Once you set up your ss, she’ll be able to help you better and others as well. While you do that, can you also please set up your signature? It helps members who come on to guide you see the basics about Jonas right away. Here’s a link for instructions on both:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

I also just want to say that like you I spent months not home testing and relying on the monthly checkups at the vet for dose adjustments. We’re lucky indeed that both our kitties did well despite us not knowing better, but I also really blame the vets and the veterinary community as a whole. We hear the same over and over from folks here and that’s the advice that all vets seem to dish out. To make matters worst, some group dogs and cats together in the way they plan the care and treatment of diabetes when they’re not the same animal/species. I don’t know how to go about changing that, but we sure need to for all the diabetic cats out there!!

welcome and let’s focus on what we can do from here on out my friend :bighug:
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Hi Aleluia! Thank you so much for your response and tagging of a PZ expert :) I appreciate it a lot. I have a little break between tasks at work so I just set up my signature with his spreadsheet so far, hopefully I did it right. Of course this is missing literal years worth of data but I started hometesting last week. I know for certain he was diabetic at least before May 2013 because we had a large tornado hit nearby and I remember gathering his insulin with icepacks to keep it safe... he has always been so strong, healthy, and amazing, but I am really in shock that we've made it this far without many scary incidents. He was low May 18 (54 at the vet and that was after having some Gravy Lovers because I was worried he was acting strangely but tried and failed to draw blood to test him, it was a guide I found on here that helped me learn how to test him properly and I am so thankful for that. Something made him very sick that day and he had thrown up everywhere about 30-45 minutes after eating his breakfast and didn't eat for several hours after that, but I'd given him his shot after he seemed to eat normally so the insulin was already in his system).

A little more background on his previous dosing: he was actually started out very high by his vet at 5U twice a day, I made the decision to decrease him to 4U and eventually 3U because it seemed like so much... now I worry if I could've been the one to get him out of whack :( He had been consistently given 3U day and night since this February, and before that he had been on 4U twice a day for probably several years. He did have his last bloodwork done in February and knocked everything right out of the park. I'll have to get that most recent one into his SS this weekend as well. I am going to do a glucose curve on him next weekend when I have no work responsibilities as he's running a bit low on lancets to change out and the new ones won't be here until later next week. I want to make sure I have plenty until then. I'm trying to test him at least a few times after his AM shot and at least once after dinner before I go to bed.

He is given wet FF with his shot, usually a pate variety. He has a salmon sensitivity so we stay away from that. With me and my mom living together, we have a combined household of 7(!!) kitties and 1 senior pup who we rescued earlier this year. We leave some dry food (a couple different varieties) down for everyone and he occasionally munches on that. He gets some plain baked chicken breast pieces twice a day with pup's breakfast and dinner, and his favorite treats are pork and liver/chicken bites from Yappetizers, and some occasional Party Mix in small servings.

I feel like I am rambling haha, thank you all again :) I'm sorry I'm so spazzy. I've had GAD and panic disorder since I was 11 years old (28 now) and I know that doesn't help my obsessive worrying one bit. I am driving myself nuts since I've been testing him, I'm constantly worrying over him and pouring over his numbers and second-guessing myself, and beating myself up over not doing this far sooner. Hopefully my nerves will settle down with time <3

I'm about to go test him now but he's been quite alert all morning with one quick nap and just shared some wet food with one of his brothers. Thank you all again! <3
 
What JT said and also, it’s way safer for your cat to be high than low and risk going into hypo.

one thing, you want to test in the am before the shot not after. This is important because you need to know if that number is safe to shoot. So test, feed to make sure he’s got food in his system then shoot. Don’t feed before you test because it can influence the numbers and then you’re not getting the accurate picture of where his BG level is.

You mentioned leaving dry food out for the other cats which can be an issue since he should really not have any since he’s diabetic. The other issue I see with this is that you don’t want to feed him for at least 2 hours before the am and pm tests, but if you have food out there’s no way to know for sure he didn’t eat some. Let’s see what others can advise you on this. I know some folks here used feeders with timers, but with 7 cats that may be tricky. Is Party Mix dry? If it is, I’d stay away from that. Have you tried freeze dried treats?

how is testing going? Are you warming up his ear and aiming for the sweet spot? We have lots of tips so let us know if you need guidance there

I always say if you’re doing the best you can, you’re doing awesome. I obsess and worry 24/7 too. It’s okay. I think I’ll only stop worrying when I’m dead lol ;)
 
And good call on giving him high carby food on the 18th. 54 at the vet is extremely low. Did they not say that or help you bring his numbers up? I mean considering the stress of the vet visit, his true number was likely even lower than that... I can’t imagine a vet would not be concerned with that number
 
Everyone, thank you so much for your words. It really means a lot to me. I am trying my best not to worry so much but it's as easy as breathing lol, I hope that once his readings are a bit more consistently in the 100s and 200s I'll be able to relax a little more.

Ahhh I don't think I know how to tag guys, I'm sorry! But this is in response to your posts Aleluia :) I'm sorry if I misworded it, he does get tested first, then fed, then he gets his shot! Even before we did hometesting, he always ate before getting his shot just to make sure he didn't turn away from food for any reason.

I'm honestly not sure how to approach the dry food piece at all with so many other kitties and because he's been used to it for so many years. I would really, really appreciate any advice anyone has on this. Party Mix is dry, he does also love Purebites chicken besides the Yappetizers.

Testing is going well except I've rubbed a little bald spot on his left ear and I feel awful about it :( His right ear seems very ticklish and he doesn't like me rubbing it, but I worry about using the left ear too much. The tips I read here helped me a lot and so far I've been consistently getting enough blood to test on the first or second poke :) I was a wreck over it at first but I think we finally found our groove. He gets half of one of his pork and liver Yappetizers after each check.

The vet attributed his low number to his throwing up/lack of eating afterwards and also mentioned that he was probably even lower since he was stressed from the car ride and vet visit :( He didn't seem concerned except for if his vomiting continued (which it didn't) and just instructed me to skip his insulin dose that night, which I did, and I began hometesting the next morning.

ETA: I forgot to mention that I tested him again at +4 and he was down a little to 406.

ETA: He's in a very good mood and that at least is alleviating my anxieties from today :) He's playing with his toys and he even got a little spicy with one of the girls and crawled on top of her before being gently escorted off, lol. He's been fixed since before I adopted him many years ago but you can't tell him that!
 
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Whitney and Jonas said:
Everyone, thank you so much for your words. It really means a lot to me. I am trying my best not to worry so much but it's as easy as breathing lol, I hope that once his readings are a bit more consistently in the 100s and 200s I'll be able to relax a little more.

Ahhh I don't think I know how to tag guys, I'm sorry! But this is in response to your posts Aleluia :) I'm sorry if I misworded it, he does get tested first, then fed, then he gets his shot! Even before we did hometesting, he always ate before getting his shot just to make sure he didn't turn away from food for any reason.

I'm honestly not sure how to approach the dry food piece at all with so many other kitties and because he's been used to it for so many years. I would really, really appreciate any advice anyone has on this. Party Mix is dry, he does also love Purebites chicken besides the Yappetizers.

Testing is going well except I've rubbed a little bald spot on his left ear and I feel awful about it :( His right ear seems very ticklish and he doesn't like me rubbing it, but I worry about using the left ear too much. The tips I read here helped me a lot and so far I've been consistently getting enough blood to test on the first or second poke :) I was a wreck over it at first but I think we finally found our groove. He gets half of one of his pork and liver Yappetizers after each check.

The vet attributed his low number to his throwing up/lack of eating afterwards and also mentioned that he was probably even lower since he was stressed from the car ride and vet visit :( He didn't seem concerned except for if his vomiting continued (which it didn't) and just instructed me to skip his insulin dose that night, which I did, and I began hometesting the next morning.

ETA: I forgot to mention that I tested him again at +4 and he was down a little to 406.

ETA: He's in a very good mood and that at least is alleviating my anxieties from today :) He's playing with his toys and he even got a little spicy with one of the girls and crawled on top of her before being gently escorted off, lol. He's been fixed since before I adopted him many years ago but you can't tell him that!
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Other folks here with multiple cats will have tips about the dry food for you I’m sure! For now, can you stop the Party Mix treats? Purebites are great. Minnie also loves their shrimp andVitalessentials minnows :bighug:
 
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I have a bunch of cats and a very tiny house so I feel your pain. I am weaning Philly off of high carb dry by offering low carb dry in small amounts and wet in larger amounts, thinking the dry will get him eating and he can get a taste for the wet at the at the same time. Everyone else wants his expensive low carb dry, though, and we've gone through a bag quickly.

My plan is to put him in my bedroom at night with wet food. If others are in there when I close the door, they get wet only. I'll leave dry in the living or dining room for the rest.

During the day I have a couple older cats that I try to herd into my bedroom for a wet food meal. I'll add Philly to that group.

It isn't perfect, but I need to make it work.
 
Bad news on the Yappetizers. Those are high carb too, like the Party Mix. Any type of pure protein treat is ok. But the Yappetizers have pea protein, pea fiber, sweet potato powder. I only checked one flavor, but carb ingredients like those are not good for a diabetic cat. Sorry.

The Purebites are a good option for a diabetic, as they are pure protein.

So it looks like you are basing the insulin dose on the pre-shot test, and using a sliding scale. Is that what your vet had you doing?

Hi Joe (Jonas) and Whitney. We'll get you and Joe in better shape with the insulin dose. Sounds like he feels pretty good, if he's trying to mount one of the other cats.
 
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