New member - new cat mum, new diagnosis and more.

Hello all. First a little about us. I'm Jan, and I just finally made it to having my own place last year, so I could finally adopt my life companion I've always wanted. That would be Brie - she comes from a shelter across the border in Poland (really difficult to adopt here atm). She came to live with me at the beginning of June. The shelter vet said she was 4 years old, and had a clean bill of health. I've come to discover that's very much not the case.

The story is quite long - I will try to downsize it, but i hope you stick with me. When Brie first arrived, she was super cuddly and social - she wasn't shy or scared at all, very easily picked up, came for cuddles throughout the day, and slept with me on my bed at night. On the first night, i noticed she had shallow breathing. I assumed anxiety. The next day there was blood in her poop. I was assured that's just a stress poop.

About 2 weeks later I notice she is scratching a lot at her ears. I take her to the vet - her ears are completely impacted with dirt. I get cleaning solution, home we go. A week later, a lot of crap came out of her ears, but still look pretty bad, and shea got a fever. Back we go - vet cleans, get new solution and an anti-inflammatory injection.

I went away for 2 days, and when I came back I noticed she was very lethargic. I thought she was just ignoring me with the cold shoulder, since she didn't come for any cuddles or sleep with me (and hasn't since), but after several days I realised it was more. She also started sneezing. Unhappy with my previous vet, we try a new one. I get some liquid meds for her nose, another injection, and anti-ear mite medication added to the ear cleaning solution.

Her sneezing stopped, but the lethargy was increasing. When I continued to find blood in her poop, we went to the vet again - her gums were inflamed, and was given an anti biotic. Also a fecal sample was sent for testing.

A few days later - now she's started hiding and just flopping on the ground all day, which she has never done before. I'm starting to get pretty worried. Back to the vet, blood taken. Results of the fecal test - giardia. So more meds prescribed for that. Hiding and lethargy intensify.

Few days later, bloodwork comes back - it's diabetes. My vet says she is very doubtful that she is 4 years old - more like 8. She shows me how to take a blood test and give insulin.

The first night was horrible - I could barely get enough blood to take a reading, and having been shipped about, poked, prodded and generally not feeling well for over 1 month, i had a very stressed kittie, and me, on my hands. After 8 attempts, i went too hard and pretty much went through her ear. Blood everywhere. Unhappy kitty. Unhappy me. I cried for most of the rest of the night. It's gotten a little better, but not much yet.

She seemed to be responding well to the insulin, but then on sunday there was a new behaviour - she started nervous crawling around, looking for places to hide. Crying for no reason (usually she makes pretty much no noise), crying every time she takes a step, still blood in feces. My vet says I gotta take her to the hospital at this point.

She got an x-ray - it seems her intestinal walls are abnormally thickened, probably because of the giardia. Vet gives me a painkiller and some paste for healthy gut bacteria.

So that brings me to now. We have been to the vet 8 times in 2 months. Just getting in her carry bag makes her pant and hyperventilate. Now our med schedule looks like this:

2x blood sugar tests a day
2x insulin a day
2x tablets for giardia a day
2x gut paste a day
1x painkiller a day
1x nose meds a day
2x ear cleaning a week

I'm really bad at doing the blood sugar check. And she hates the giardia pills with a passion. I have to force feed them to her and manhandle her a lot, especially sincr she started hiding and withdrawing more. My sweet, happy house buddy has, in just a month, become sick, and sad, and frightened of me. No more cuddles. No more bedtime together. She pulls away from my hands, and now she wont eat either (not a lot of diabetic options on the market here, and makes me worried about giving her insulin). I am mad and frustrated that the shelter didnt seemingly check for these things. I am frustrated at the extra costs and stress I wasn't counting on, and time off sitting for hours at a vet every few days. I'm sad my fur baby looks at me like she's being violated with every med i have to administer. It breaks my heart to see her pull away from me - shes an indoor cat in a city apartment, I'm all she has, and she looks at me like Im an abuser. I'm scared our relationship cannot be reconciled and instead of being the cuddly buddies we were forever, i will have my worst fear - a lifetime in a home with a cat who hates me for family.

I am exhausted, physically and mentally, from the running around, from watching her suffer in pain, from causing her pain, from getting her to eat and to trust me, from the financial strain, everything. I am not giving up on my fur buddy, but i really need some support. Any information, suggestions, advice, all is welcome. I have wanted to be a cat mum for so many years, it's only been 2 months, and now this situation is breaking my heart.

 

Your situation is breaking my heart as well Poor little kitty cat POOR JAN!
Well lets see if we cant mend this situation I know @Aleluia Grugru & Minnie is having multiple issues at the moment she may be able to give you some helpful hints.
We are a community of kitty cat lovers that all have a common thread that is diabetes. We welcome all who come here and hope to help everyone. Your first post makes you part of this family. We will try to help you sort this out.
More replies are sure to follow so hold on ok?
would you share your kitties name with us?
Again welcome to the best site to help you learn everything you need to know about feline diabetes.
jeanne

 

Oh, I am so sorry the two of you are going through this!!!

There's a lot going on with your kitty, for sure. It's not surprising that she's not feeling cuddly at this point-- who would? Hopefully you can get her on the road to feeling better soon.

We can definitely help with the diabetes treatment (and maybe some others here will have some thoughts on the rest of it, too). Probably the most worrying diabetes-related information I read in your message was this part:

Even if the vet hospital found yet another problem with the x-ray they took , I'm worried that this behavior might have been related to the insulin and that she might have had a hypoglycemic episode. A few questions for you:

-- what kind of insulin are you using? what dose?
-- when you have been able to test her blood glucose, what kinds of numbers do you usually get?

Around here, we use a common template for a spreadsheet to record BG numbers. It's really helpful to have all your data in there so folks here can see what you are dealing with before they comment about the diabetes care. FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

With testing, it can be rough going at first. I think we've all had the poke-through-the-ear, gusher of blood, etc. etc. experiences one time or another! Make sure you're giving her a yummy treat after every attempt, successful or not. You'd be surprised what cats are willing to put up with when they associate something with treats! Have some treats for yourself, too-- all of this is very stressful for the caregiver. Sometimes, our kitties pick up on that stress, which makes it pretty hard to do things like test BG or administer medicine-- they pick up on that vibe, and then they're off! One thing you can try that sounds silly but works, is to sing when you are doing the testing. It's hard to be stressed while singing, so it relaxes you (even if you weren't feeling all that relaxed ) and calms the whole situation down.

I hope this helps a little! Hang in there, we'll do our best to help you and your little one through this if we can!

 

THANK YOU NAN!

 

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome I know that this forum is mostly focused on diabetes, but i figured if anywhere would understand how stressful that is on top of a bunch of other medical issues, it's here. Just hearing similar stories and such is already a little bit of a relief.

My apologies, i should have made it clearer in my post - her name is Brie, she's a European shorthair

 

1. We are using Caninsulin - it's what my vet gave me, we haven't been doing it long enough to have a check up and discuss the effects and whatnot.

2. Her blood sugar level has been usually between 8mmol and 11, although she also hasn't been eating properly a few times, so I have some random/weird numbers too.

Thanks for the info on the spreadsheet - I'll look into it ^^ and thanks for the advice, i think I just really need to hear some stuff like "oh ya we all have pierced our cats ears, you aren't a monster!" For a while...

 

Oh good lord jeanne she did say that! smh (thats me talking to myself)

We are going to help you learn to navigate this disease. There are a lot of members here who have dealt with multiple kitty issues. Just hang in there replies are forthwith.

 

I'm embarrassed to say how many times we skewered Troubles ears.

 

Hmmmm..... those are low numbers for Caninsulin pre-shots. We usually recommend that new people don't shoot (or at least ask for advice before shooting) if the pre-shot number is less than 11. What dose are you giving?

Because Caninsulin is pretty fast-acting and can hit hard, it's critically important as well that Brie has a meal on-board before her shot. You mentioned her appetite has been poor lately-- how poor, and for how long?

 

Tagging @Critter Mom and @Elizabeth and Bertie just because I saw them posting recently and they're both very experienced with all kinds of cat health issues. Also, they're in the UK and in a similar time zone to you , so it's always nice to be on their radar just in case you have questions at a time when most of the board is asleep.

There are probably other people I should be tagging, but my memory is terrible, so I'm drawing a blank...

 

It's 0.2...millilitre? I think? It's the 0.2 on my syringes. My vet checked in with me today to see how the hospital went, and she said 8-11 is pretty good, so I wasn't really concerned but.

Her appetite has been a steady decline, from wolfing it down to only eating half or less. I realised today she also picked out the regular food I had mixed with the diabetic wet food I had mixed together to transition her, so I'm assuming it's partly because she didn't like it. But when she was hiding and crying I offered her 2 different super treats and she completely ignored them, which is very very unlike her.

 

Shoot not eating not good. have you tried baby food? Pure meat NO garlic OR onions.

 

Yeah, you really do need her to eat. If she doesn't like the diabetic food, ditch it for now and let her eat her old food (assuming it doesn't cause issues with her other problems). Or, as Jeanne says, you can try new things like baby food to tempt her.

You're likely shooting 2U, which is a hefty starting dose. Those numbers are good numbers , it's just that they are low for pre-shot (they'd be great as mid-cycle numbers), especially with Caninsulin, and especially on a high-ish dose. I'm worried about this.

How was the diabetes diagnosed? Did they do a fructosamine test, or just do a spot-check of BG in the vet's office?

I know the testing is hard, but is there any way you can get some between-shot tests in addition to the pre-shots? Something around 3hrs post-shot would be a great start at figuring out what is going on with Brie and deciding whether she needs that much insulin after all (I'm betting not).

 

Also tagging @Deb & Wink , not sure she's around, but she's got a lot of experience helping Caninsulin caregivers.

 

Sigh didnt think of Deb my brain is fried from this heat.

 

Yes, we sure have done that. Plus, we've poked our own fingers. With both the lancet and the insulin syringe. When the insulin syringe was both empty and full! So go eat some high sugar foods if you ever poke yourself with a full insulin syringe. It's a good excuse for some ice cream and cookies in my book!

(Trying to keep to Jan's request for some upbeat talk. She isn't ready for a spreadsheet yet, to track the BG levels.)

 

I have not, i didnt know this was a thing XD I will look into it. I was thinking to just give her a raw food diet for a while but wasn't sure how to put it together properly for a balanced and diabetes appropriate diet. Up until now she had never been fussy about food - she's a bit overweight, i think she was just happy to have a constant food supply with no competition.

 

Yes, i think the 2u was decided on because her symptoms were so extreme - she had been to the vet too many times, she was panicing and hyperventilating in the waiting room, then just turning into an almost unresponsive pancake on the vet table. The diagnosis was given from her blood test- and I can indeed see that her glucose and fructose levels were very, very high. It's possible my vet expected it to take much more to bring that level down than it has.

As for between shot testing - it is standard procedure here to make a testing day, where blood is taken every 2 hours to get an entire curve of the day. My vet originally wanted me to do it this this weekend - she said there "wouldn't be much point" until then, again I presume she expected it would take some days to bring the blood sugar levels to an appectable level. Since I've been struggling to get blood properly for readings 2x a day, she told me it would still be okay to do it the weekend after instead.

 

Waving from Canada.

Scroll down to the end to see EU-specific foods. You may be able to order these and some of the UK options from zooplus.

UK Cat Food List

Before switching, you must be testing regularly. Switching to low carb can change overall numbers by up to 100.

If none of the foods on the list are available, there is a member from Russia who may be of help.

 

thanks. I guess because we haven't really had a lot of time to bond, there's a big part of me who is scared this will forever negatively impact our relationship in a way that can't be undone :< any additional tips on getting enough blood in one go would be much appreciated

 

Awesome, thanks, I'll check it out. Any resources for reading up on feeding just regular raw meats a while? In the last month my vet trips have cost me over 600€, plus ordering special foods (that are then getting wasted), plus BG testing equipment etc, the next month or so is going to be a bit of a financial crunch.

 

We've had members from Europe give raw diets. TC Feline is a premix you can add to raw meat to create a complete meal. I think this is the link to the German distributor. The original TC Feline is from Canada - on an island not far from me. I used it for a while.

 

Oh excellent, thank you! I am actually based in Germany, I shall approach my vet about it

 

Hi @janjan64

I am a recently sugar cat mom and am also on Caninsulin. The vet started Douglas on 2IU and his BG levels are sitting in the late 20's/early 30's. I am now on 2.5IU, so with the BG levels you are saying, even to me your dosage seems high.

I know this has already been said, but you really are in the best place for support and advice. It has been absolutely invaluable to me and in only a few weeks feels so much more confident in what I am doing and understanding diabetes. We have all struggled (and I am still struggling) so the experience of those on here is absolutely amazing. You have come to the right place!

Sending lots of positive vibes to you and Brie

 

UPDATE
Well, talk about night and day! Yes these 2 months have been very hard, and what im about to say doesnt negate any of my previous posts, but we had such a great interaction this morning I just had to share!

So last night i struggled to get her to eat, she just wanted to lay in the dark in the bathroom like she always does and give me the cold shoulder after meds time. Then I woke up about 4 am, to find her sprawled out on the bed next to me! First time in like 6 weeks! I was so happy to see her. Then at 5am, I was awoken by her running very quickly - and loudly - up and down the corridor of the apartment (I had left out the mat from the bathroom - she was running at it and the using it to slide down the corridor! ). Now, Ive never seen this kittie go at more than a short trot since she arrived - and that was only when heading with me to the food bowl. I was so excited about this, i didnt even care it was 5am. She still tried to get me to feed her, too, but i kept firm.

So then feeding time this morning - I did as someone else mentioned and gave her her old food again, and shes still only eaten half so far. But I took her BG (we fought - I had to swaddle her again :<) and it was 4.2mmol. So, i decided not to giver her any insulin. Then something amazing happened: Since Brie arrived, she has never really cared about toys and playing. I always put it down to her not growing up in that kind of environment, so have tried to get her to "hunt" here and there with not much success. Her toys are all scattered around he living room still, however. I sat down to email my vet about her low readings, and out of nowhere she started attacking the wand toy at my feet. All on her own volition! And so we had a good 20min play session, with her actually moving/running and chasing!

It may not seem like much, but this is a huge step for us i think - i realise now her lack of interest was probably because of lethargy, being overweight and not being well in general. Heres hoping this is another way we can bond and develop our relationship despite the hardships so far ^_^

As i said - my previous posts still stand, im still looking for help/advice - im just all smiley about it today now!

Now she is sitting on a chair i set up for her next to my work desk, so she can watch - and shes actually using it instead of hiding! Heres a pic of her in action from earlier

 

Hi! Thanks for your comments Actually just hearing that also makes me concerned - i havent had anyone elses readings to compare to, and i am assuming my vet was also expecting it to take quite some time for her BG level to drop below 20. A coworker of mine actually said that "stress-induced diabetes" is a thing in cats, and to keep checking with my vet because her condition could indeed only be temporary. I wonder if thats true? Her BG this morning was 4.2mmol - I didnt give her any insulin, and shes actually been playing and tearing about the house like a kitten today! Never seen her move like that since she arrived ^_^

 

What an awesome update on Brie! More proof the Caninsulin dose is too high for now though. But good to know she feels better in normal blood sugar numbers. And you are correct that most of us bond more tightly with our cats when dealing with diabetes.

As for the raw food diet, not sure why you need to approach your vet about it. What you feed your cat should be your decision.

 

That has made my day! What fantastic news that you've had such a great morning with Brie. The fact that you didn't give her insulin and she continued to have energy definitely suggests to me that she may not need it.

My goal is to get Douglas to sleep next to me. As with you, he did this at the beginning but has now stopped. Small steps

 

Its more about making sure i am feeding her the right balance of nutrients and the right amount of calories for it to be healthy and help her to lose weight, not about whether its appropriate or not Remember Ive only been doing this a very short time, Id like to make sure we keep doing it right from now on!

 

Fingers crossed for you and Douglas She likes me to make a circle with my legs so she can sleep inside it, this morning she also did this as well, making me very hopeful we can keep going forward and have more positive bonding experiences - despite me then force-feeding her nasty tasking meds...

Shes right now even hunting and playing with the non-wand toys on her own! I never thought I would see that happen!!

 

Hi Jan! Welcome and congratulations on the big life milestones you have had, recently! It must feel amazing to have your own place and be able to have a kitty companion. Brie is such a lil' cutie pie! The photo of her wrapped around the chair leg with her toy is too funny. I'm so glad she was hunting and playing this morning. Whew. There are definitely a lot of ups and downs with FD, but you are in such good company, here and will receive lots of support.

I struggled soooooo much with the home blood testing in the beginning, too. I was having to poke her ear multiple times just to get enough blood for a single test. OR I would get too much blood and my couch would end up looking like it had been used on the set of a horror movie. I was in TEARS a lot. Butters ran away from me a lot, and she's been with me five years. It will get easier each week. You are both learning this new dance. That takes time. Oh and Butters is back to sleeping on top of me every night, my back pain has returned so I guess she has forgiven me . I still occasionally pierce right through her ears, and/or have to poke more than once, though.

You asked about additional tips for getting blood. You are drawing from Brie's ear, correct? Are you warming up her ear, first? This encourages blood to flow to the ear. Many members put some rice into a little sock and tie it up, then you can microwave that until it's warm to create a little heating pad for her ear. Hold it against Brie's ear until her ear feels warm, and then poke her ear. Brie's ears also have to "learn" how to bleed. More capillaries will form in her ear over time, which will make it easier to draw blood from them. It just takes time.

As Nan mentioned, always treat her whether you drew blood or not. Poke then treat. If Brie is shaking her head after, you can use your fingernail to scoop up the blood droplet and then test it. I poke Butters ear on the outside and hold a cotton folded pad on the inside so I don't poke my finger, too. Once I get the blood on the test strip, I drop a treat in front of her and use the cotton pad to gently squeeze the area I just poked. This will prevent bruising. In Canada, I bought a tube of Polysporin with Pain Relief Ointment. Americans have Neosporin ointment. You must have an equivalent in Germany? Just make sure it is ointment and not cream. I will sometimes put the ointment on Butters' ears to help them heal from all the pokes. And as Nan mentioned, I sing to Butters...it calms us both. Finally, I got Butters to associate the sound of the test strip canister opening with getting a treat. When she hears me open it, she will come running, jump up on the couch and plunk herself down in our "testing spot". It took many weeks to do this, but she is now very compliant with the testing process.

Not sure what is available to you in Germany, but I use freeze dried meat treats for Butters or I'll sometimes cube a boiled chicken breast and keep a stash in the freezer. These are good, diabetic-friendly treats.

Here is a link to tips for home testing. There are some videos, a link to a step-by-step guide. Maybe you will find some other useful tips in there.

And finally, some photos of what spot to aim for, in case they are of any help at all:

 

Isn't it amazing to see them start feeling better? Once all of these pesky infections are behind you guys, you're going to have quite the fun roomate, it looks like!

That 4.2 is an eye-opener, for sure. So glad you are testing and knew not to shoot!

Your coworker is correct about stress raising blood glucose in cats-- that's why the fructosamine test (which looks at a kind of average over a couple weeks) is preferable to a spot BG test in a vet's office. It's not unusual for BG to spike at the vet, making a non-diabetic cat look diabetic.

In Brie's case, I'm wondering if all of her issues could have been raising her BG for weeks, so that even on the fructosamine test she looked worse off than she actually was. I mean, giardia alone is no fun, plus the ear mites, plus being in a shelter and getting transported to parts unknown... It's very possible that her FD journey is going to be on the short side (fingers crossed!).

Keep testing to see how she does without insulin today, and definitely post for advice before shooting tonight if you get a low-ish number. I know you said you've been shooting numbers in the 8-11 range, I'd still recommend caution if you get a number like that, and definitely ask for advice before shooting if you get anything lower.

Hooray for Brie feeling better! Let's hope this means all those miserable medication sessions are paying off and she's got the giardia and ear mites on the run now!

 

NEW UPDATE
Well well well what a day ^^ so the BG test both this morning and this evening was just a smidge over 5mmol, no changes and no insulin given. I spoke with my vet and she said that, considering the very fast BG drop and very speedy behaviour change, it could be that she doesn't have diabetes at all, but it could have been a pancreatic inflammation which has been helped with the insulin. I am to continue monitoring her BG for a while and see how it goes. It's dinner time now, her food is out, but she's looking at me funny like she's suspicious of not being manhandled xd I hope she can trust me again soon!

So, even if we end up not having FD, i have to say a big thank you to all the kind words and support I received in such a little time when I was so very stressed!

 

Fingers and paws crossed!!

 

Wonderful news! I am so happy for you and Brie!!!!!

 

Hi Jan,

I only saw Nan's tag just now so sorry I didn't respond sooner. Very glad to hear Brie is doing so much better.

Are they metronidazole (Flagyl)? Apparently it tastes utterly foul.

I don't know whether this might be of help, but my Saoirse needed treatment with metronidazole one time. Our vets prescribed a drug called Stomorgyl 2. It contains metronidazole but our vet chose it because apparently it doesn't taste quite as bad as the Flagyl.

With regard to your little one's GI inflammation, I wonder whether it might be worth asking your vet if slippery elm bark might help? It comes in a powder to which you add water. It forms a gelatinous mixture that coats and soothes the gut lining. Word of caution: it shouldn't be given at the same time as medications because it may interfere with their absorption.

I could hug your vet for recognising this.

My little one had chronic pancreatitis. The inflammation died down when she was being treated with Lantus insulin. As soon as the insulin treatment was withdrawn the clinical signs of the pancreatitis returned pretty much immediately. (I've seen similar happen with other cats here in the past.) I had a disagreement with a feline internal medicine specialist about the anti-inflammatory benefit Saoirse was receiving from having just a tiny drop of Lantus each day (with very close monitoring of her BG levels at home). Unfortunately the IM specialist won and I wasn't able to continue Saoirse's maintenance treatment.

For general information, there has been at least one study in humans into the anti-inflammatory effect of insulin on the pancreas.

It brought tears to my eyes reading how sad you've been about all of Brie's woes and how worried you are that she might not love you any more. I firmly believe that the opposite will be true. Cats are really smart, and while Brie might not be overly appreciative of all the pastes and drops and yukky-tasting tablets, as she starts feeling better and better in herself she will know that you were looking out for her and the bond between you will be very strong.

I think living beings are sometimes sent to each other. Mayhap you are just the very person Brie needed, someone with a heart brimming with love and caring. I wish you both a happy and loving life together. Brie is beyond blessed to have you as her Forever Person.




Mogs
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That's great. Hoping whatever was bothering her is gone now.

 

This would be wonderful news, indeed!!! I wish you and your fur baby all the best!

 

Lovely normal numbers! Excellent news! ...Keeping fingers and paws crossed that this continues...

 

Hi Critter Mom!

Yes, its metronidazole, and yes it does taste foul - I managed to get it on my hands more than once and really regretted it XD I will ask my vet about Stomorgyl 2 if the current treatment doesnt work - theres a 7 day break now, then 7 days on, then break, then last 7 days dose to go. From her current behaviour, id say this is her biggest issue right now - shes become super active and playful in the mornings, which she never did, but come 11am, she gets irritable and sits in the bathroom in the dark again. I think its her digestion giving her trouble. My vet did give me a painkiller for her, though, but that has not changed that. In fact i just checked her BG in case she was somehow hypoglycemic but no - 6.4mmol. Her BG does appear to be on an upward trend the last few days, all be it a slow one, and i have not been giving her insulin, so i am wondering if she is still having some pancreatic issue. I am recording all these readings and behaviours in a diary for my vet though, so if things continue escalating ill send them to her tomorrow.

Thanks for your kind words - perhaps i was a little sensitive the other day but i couldnt help the thought i had failed her. On the one hand, she came and got on the bed with me for the 2nd night in a row last night; on the other she attacked my hand this morning, biting scratching and bunny hopping, and she has never been violent. Either she was feeling well enough to roughhouse, or she was irritated and taking it out on me. Seeing her playing with toys by herself and being entertained by all the things she had previously been ignoring totally warmed my heart though We may not be getting off to the best start, but I hope our bond can grow stronger going forward ^^

 

I HOPE this convinces you that you are NOT failing her.

 

Jan I believe everything happens for a reason and there is a reason you are Brie’s Mom Keep in mind some kitties will not eat because they feel nausea Ondansetron and Cerenia are meds that can help with this . Crossing fingers Brie is not diabetic but you can still ask questions here ok