New Member, lots of questions

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Bobbi Kraham

Bobbi Kraham

Member Since 2022
Hi Everyone, I'm Bobbi and my cat's name is Dimi. He is a male Siberian, approximately 13 years old (not certain because he was re-homed a couple time before he came our way). He was diagnosed with diabetes on January 5, 2022, and was hospitalized 2 days later for DKA. Four weeks later, he was hospitalized again on Feb. 7 for DKA. His diabetes is now being managed by an Internal Medicine Specialist, who thinks he was likely released before his ketones were resolved the first time around.

He is now receiving Lantus after starting on Vetsulin, which was prescribed by our regular vet. His current dose is 3 units twice/day. I use the FreeStyle Libre to monitor his BG, and the numbers are all over the place. He gets really high (over 500) and seems to drop and rise very quickly. On one occasion recently his BG was too low to measure (under 40), and yesterday and today it got as low as 50. I experimented today by withholding his kibble (Purina ProPlan DM). He responded with great to slightly low BG for a good part of the day. His BG is currently at 83 a 1/2 hour before he is due for his PM dose. He typically ranges from upper 300s to over 500 at PMPS. Given the above, I'm not sure what to do about his PM dose.

I'm also afraid to withhold kibble overnight because he seeks it out when he is getting low. At mealtime he generally eats about 1/4 - 1/2 can of Fancy Feast pate, and rarely comes back to it after it's sat out for a while. Without the kibble overnight, I'm afraid he'll have no way to help himself if his BG drops.

I'd greatly appreciate guidance regarding his PM dose and whether I should plan to leave him with some kibble overnight. Thanks so much in advance! Bobbi
 
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Welcome Bobbi and Dimi
I will tag a few more experienced than me but for now can you please create you signature and Spreadsheet , tap on the blue link
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it inyour signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

If you have trouble creating the spreadsheet just ask, we have a member that will help you

@Wendy&Neko

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@Marje and Gracie

@Christie & Maverick

@tiffmaxee

@Suzanne & Darcy
 
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Bobbi Kraham said:
Thank you, Diane. I've edited my post to add a signature and link Dimi's spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
You're welcome ,one of these members should be along :cat:
Can you please add what food you are feeding, is it kibble only?
I noticed on your SS it looks like you are dosing based on the pre shots, we increase or decrease by nadir how low his BG is dropping.
We only adjust doses by 0.25 units at a time.
I think that's why you are seeing crazy BG's

Also I noticed that you said your husband might have given a fur shot so went ahead and gave 1 unit. Please don't ever do that because you never know if any got in.

I am going to give you the link on the 2 dosing methods for lantus which we follow
Pick one and then you can add it to your signature and SS
Lantus likes consistency
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

How many units were you giving when you were using vetsulin
Do you have the U-100 syringes with half unit markings
Can you add what he's eating to your signature please and the Libre
 
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Hi Bobby! Glad to see you over here from the group!

I seriously think that the kibble was keeping him high which is why he was needing a higher dose of insulin to counter it.

Since he's only at 100 tonight, you for sure don't want to be giving 3U. Can you test him again in 20 minutes (without feeding him?) Just want to make sure he's heading up.

More to come
 
Have you ever tried adding water to his canned food? It keeps it from getting all dry and crusty. Another option instead of kibble would be to make food-sicles. Add water to canned food and then freeze it in ice cube trays. Most cats won't eat it frozen (although there are some that will crunch their way through it!) but after it melts, it offers a "fresh" meal.

Freeze dried foods like Stella and Chewy are "supposed" to have water added, but a lot of people leave it down dry for in between meal snacking.

There are some low carb kibbles but unless it's really necessary, it's better to stick with canned because of the extra moisture. Cats are desert creatures who were designed to get their water from prey. A mouse is about 80% water...just like canned foods. The kidneys are already under extra strain due to the diabetes so keeping them as healthy as possible is a good idea.

You can also get an Auto feeder like the Cat Mate 500. It allows you to program it to open and offer a fresh meal whenever you want and then you can have it rotate to an empty slot 2 hours before shot time so that your Pre-shot test isn't influenced by food. Auto-feeders have saved the sanity of a lot of sugarcat moms and dads!

Now I understand that tonight you can't do some of those things (except adding water to the food so it doesn't get dry and crusty) but we're also not going to give 3U again tonight with his BG running so much lower.

Let us know what you get at 9:30, but I'd plan on maybe trying 1U tonight.
 
Chris, Thanks so much for the suggestions. I do add water to his pate, but he still rejects it several hours later. The freezer idea is interesting, though he also rejects pate that has been refrigerated (even after it has been warmed), so not sure how he'd feel about frozen. I will definitely look in the auto feeder. That will be a huge help when I go back to the office.
 
It's a half hour after he should have received his PM dose and his BG has dropped to 56. Now I'm really getting nervous.
 
Bobbi Kraham said:
He is eating his FF now. Should I leave kibble out overnight?
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I'd rather you didn't. The food he's eating now should bring him up and I'm betting at some point he's going to bounce. Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, .2. they drop too fast, 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3). The liver releases stored sugars and hormones that bring the BG up fast.

See how yesterday he went from greens to black? That's what a bounce is. It can take up to 6 cycles for a bounce to clear and to have him clear it so quickly is even more proof that 3U was probably too high of a dose but the kibble was keeping his BG high. By removing the kibble, he shouldn't need near as much insulin.

I know you have a job interview tomorrow so can't stay up all night so let's see where he's at in an hour. How late can you comfortably stay up?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Can you add the food you are feeding and the Libre to your signature and Libre to your SS so members won't keep asking you :cat:[/QUOTE

My signature is now allowing me to add any additional characters. How do I change the link to his spreadsheet so it appears like yours rather than showing the link details?
Click to expand...
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I'd rather you didn't. The food he's eating now should bring him up and I'm betting at some point he's going to bounce. Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, .2. they drop too fast, 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3). The liver releases stored sugars and hormones that bring the BG up fast.

See how yesterday he went from greens to black? That's what a bounce is. It can take up to 6 cycles for a bounce to clear and to have him clear it so quickly is even more proof that 3U was probably too high of a dose but the kibble was keeping his BG high. By removing the kibble, he shouldn't need near as much insulin.

I know you have a job interview tomorrow so can't stay up all night so let's see where he's at in an hour. How late can you comfortably stay up?
Click to expand...

Yes, I see that bounce from yesterday. The same happened when he dropped below 40 on 2/24. He just ate about 1/2 can of FF. I'll hide the kibble and hope that without it he'll come back to the FF throughout the night if he's hungry. Maybe I'll also leave out a pouch of BFF, which is liquidy, so hopefully more appealing after a few hours.

I can stay up for another couple of hours (until midnight my time). Thanks again for all of your help!
 
My signature is not allowing me to add any additional characters. Can either of you advise how I can change the link to his spreadsheet so it appears like yours rather than showing the link details?
 
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