New Member - Kelvin the cat and savaj

[asav]

Hello everyone,

My name is savaj, and my cat Kelvin has been diagnosed with feline diabetes in July 2024. He's a 7.5 year old neutered male, domestic longhair cat and the sweetest fuzzbutt on the planet. Before his diagnosis, Kelvin went from 14 lbs to 11 lbs while we were traveling out of the country - he was just a little overweight before, but he is just a very large cat.

The vet prescribed Vetsulin in July 2024, and he was on that for about 2 months, but it did not work very well. We used the Libre sensor and then home testing to confirm that his nadir was about 3 hours after the shot, and then his blood sugars would rise for the rest of the 12-hour window. After visiting a specialist vet, they prescribed Lantus which we are currently giving him twice a day. He has gained weight back to 13 lbs, where we are trying to keep him as that is a healthy weight for him according to the vet, and he does drink less, but still pees a lot (large quantities) and is still demanding more food than is reasonable.

Unfortunately Kelvin is also a very picky cat, and will not tolerate Fancy Feast, which I saw was a main recommendation here. We feed him on a combination of raw food, cans (Veruwa TruLuxe - the lower carb options), and some kibble (Dr Elsey's clean protein) when he gets annoying at night and stars breaking things. For treats, he usually gets some freeze dried liver or minnows, which he adores, just before his ear prick.

Now to our problems ... Kelvin's blood sugars don't seem to be settling down as much as we were hoping.
In November (last time we saw the specialist vet, their practice moved and there are not any more specialists near me), the vet recommended dose was 3.5U of Lantus 2x per day. But his blood sugars were high one day, lower another (e.g., 420 in the morning on day 1, 250 on day 2, 350 on day 3, etc.). So in February I found this forum and decided to try the SLGS method to see if we can improve his numbers. I started with 1.5U 2x per day, and you can see the numbers tracked in the spreadsheet.

It seems like the low dose was working at first and his BG got relatively steady (still not normal), but after that, they started rising again. So I tried increasing the dose to 2U, then later to 2.5, and things are not getting better.

I would love to see any suggestions on how we could get his diabetes better controlled. Thank you so much for your help!

savaj and Kelvin

 

[CORKY]

Hello everyone,

My name is savaj, and my cat Kelvin has been diagnosed with feline diabetes in July 2024. He's a 7.5 year old neutered male, domestic longhair cat and the sweetest fuzzbutt on the planet. Before his diagnosis, Kelvin went from 14 lbs to 11 lbs while we were traveling out of the country - he was just a little overweight before, but he is just a very large cat.

The vet prescribed Vetsulin in July 2024, and he was on that for about 2 months, but it did not work very well. We used the Libre sensor and then home testing to confirm that his nadir was about 3 hours after the shot, and then his blood sugars would rise for the rest of the 12-hour window. After visiting a specialist vet, they prescribed Lantus which we are currently giving him twice a day. He has gained weight back to 13 lbs, where we are trying to keep him as that is a healthy weight for him according to the vet, and he does drink less, but still pees a lot (large quantities) and is still demanding more food than is reasonable.

Unfortunately Kelvin is also a very picky cat, and will not tolerate Fancy Feast, which I saw was a main recommendation here. We feed him on a combination of raw food, cans (Veruwa TruLuxe - the lower carb options), and some kibble (Dr Elsey's clean protein) when he gets annoying at night and stars breaking things. For treats, he usually gets some freeze dried liver or minnows, which he adores, just before his ear prick.

Now to our problems ... Kelvin's blood sugars don't seem to be settling down as much as we were hoping.
In November (last time we saw the specialist vet, their practice moved and there are not any more specialists near me), the vet recommended dose was 3.5U of Lantus 2x per day. But his blood sugars were high one day, lower another (e.g., 420 in the morning on day 1, 250 on day 2, 350 on day 3, etc.). So in February I found this forum and decided to try the SLGS method to see if we can improve his numbers. I started with 1.5U 2x per day, and you can see the numbers tracked in the spreadsheet.

It seems like the low dose was working at first and his BG got relatively steady (still not normal), but after that, they started rising again. So I tried increasing the dose to 2U, then later to 2.5, and things are not getting better.

I would love to see any suggestions on how we could get his diabetes better controlled. Thank you so much for your help!

savaj and Kelvin

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Diane Tyler's Mom GA

 

[squeem3]

Welcome

Fancy Feast is often recommended because most people are familiar with that brand and it's found pretty much everywhere. If your cat doesn't like it, no worries There are other brands to feed. The food chart is here if you want to explore other low carb options https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf Weruva is pricey so it's good to have other options. Soulistic is made by the same company as Weruva, costs a bit less, and the varieties are nearly identical. What kind of raw are you feeding? Homemade or a commercial brand?

I wonder if you stop feeding kibble the blood glucose levels might improve. Some cats are super carb sensitive. There's been debate on FDMB in the past about the carb content in supposedly low carb dry foods like Young Again or Dr. Elsey's. Give it a try for a week or so and check blood glucose levels closely. In some cats, there's a big drop in blood glucose levels once dry food is out of the diet.

Many people use a programmable timed feeder to give their cats small snacks. This might work for your cat at night and during the day as well if you aren't home. Canned food can be put into the feeder. It won't spoil or go bad since it's a cooked product.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hello and welcome. My kitty started on Caninsulin (same as Vetsulin) too, and same as you, it didn't last long enough. Lantus is a much better insulin, good to hear you switched.

I never fed Fancy Feast - it's a suggestion we make for people who are trying to save money with the added costs of managing a diabetic cat. There are tons of other options out there good for diabetics. I fed my girl raw food, so that's a good option. Preferably without the dry. If a kitty needs crunch, there are air dried or freeze dried raw options that work. Some people have found their cat gets higher numbers with the Dr. Elsey's.

A couple things about SLGS that you aren't following closely. First, dose increases are by 0.25 units at a time. Do you have 1/2 unit marked syringes? If yes, you can eyeball those changes. How high a dose did you get to on Lantus before switching to SLGS for dosing.

Next, you need to do more tests besides just the preshot tests. We determine how to change the dose based on how low the dose takes the cat. Typically the preshots are the highest point. It's still important to test before shooting to make sure it's safe to do so. Would it be possible to get a test before you go to bed each night? Many cats go lower at night. If you can get a test at least 2-3 hours after his PM shot, that'll tell us a lot about what is happening at night. Getting mid day shots when you can, say weekends if you are home, are really helpful too. Right now I can't tell if he needs more or less insulin, until I see a few more tests in the middle between shots.

SLGS also says you need to do a curve at least once a week. A curve is a text every 2 hours for 12 hours, or every 3 hours for 18 hours. Doses should only be held for 7 days if he's not seeing numbers in the 90-149 range as his low points.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome to the forum Savaj and Kelvin

 

[asav]

Welcome

Fancy Feast is often recommended because most people are familiar with that brand and it's found pretty much everywhere. If your cat doesn't like it, no worries There are other brands to feed. The food chart is here if you want to explore other low carb options https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf Weruva is pricey so it's good to have other options. Soulistic is made by the same company as Weruva, costs a bit less, and the varieties are nearly identical. What kind of raw are you feeding? Homemade or a commercial brand?

I wonder if you stop feeding kibble the blood glucose levels might improve. Some cats are super carb sensitive. There's been debate on FDMB in the past about the carb content in supposedly low carb dry foods like Young Again or Dr. Elsey's. Give it a try for a week or so and check blood glucose levels closely. In some cats, there's a big drop in blood glucose levels once dry food is out of the diet.

Many people use a programmable timed feeder to give their cats small snacks. This might work for your cat at night and during the day as well if you aren't home. Canned food can be put into the feeder. It won't spoil or go bad since it's a cooked product.

Hello and thank you so much for your reply! I think I found some Soulistic options at a Petco near me that I can pick up today, and hopefully Kelvin will like it. We have had a problem with him eating before because he is very picky, and that’s how we originally settled on raw because he would eat it most of the time. It started with no chicken and no pate, so that severely limits the options you can get in cans. He gets fed Viva raw, so commercial, most of the time. Though whatever dinner I’m making, he invariably also gets some raw meat im preparing for us humans, too. But that’s just a few bits - he does prefer that to Viva, though .

I will try removing the dry food completely for a while to see how things change, that’s a really good suggestion. I’ve thought about a timed feeder, but I have a second cat that is not diabetic that sneaks some food away. Right now we have two chip feeders to make sure that each cat is getting their own food. Kelvin is ridiculously hungry and would otherwise eat all of the other cat’s meals, so this seems to be working for now.

Thanks again for the suggestions, fingers crossed that it helps!

 

[asav]

Hello and welcome. My kitty started on Caninsulin (same as Vetsulin) too, and same as you, it didn't last long enough. Lantus is a much better insulin, good to hear you switched.

I never fed Fancy Feast - it's a suggestion we make for people who are trying to save money with the added costs of managing a diabetic cat. There are tons of other options out there good for diabetics. I fed my girl raw food, so that's a good option. Preferably without the dry. If a kitty needs crunch, there are air dried or freeze dried raw options that work. Some people have found their cat gets higher numbers with the Dr. Elsey's.

A couple things about SLGS that you aren't following closely. First, dose increases are by 0.25 units at a time. Do you have 1/2 unit marked syringes? If yes, you can eyeball those changes. How high a dose did you get to on Lantus before switching to SLGS for dosing.

Next, you need to do more tests besides just the preshot tests. We determine how to change the dose based on how low the dose takes the cat. Typically the preshots are the highest point. It's still important to test before shooting to make sure it's safe to do so. Would it be possible to get a test before you go to bed each night? Many cats go lower at night. If you can get a test at least 2-3 hours after his PM shot, that'll tell us a lot about what is happening at night. Getting mid day shots when you can, say weekends if you are home, are really helpful too. Right now I can't tell if he needs more or less insulin, until I see a few more tests in the middle between shots.

SLGS also says you need to do a curve at least once a week. A curve is a text every 2 hours for 12 hours, or every 3 hours for 18 hours. Doses should only be held for 7 days if he's not seeing numbers in the 90-149 range as his low points.

Wow, I was definitely not following things closely enough, thanks for noting that.
I do have syringes with 0.5U marks, so I can try to eyeball smaller changes, too. Kelvin used to be on 3.5U before I started this in February, and was very bouncy in terms of preshot levels. One day he would be at 240, then next day at 450. We have never had a hypo glycemic episode, either.

Based on your suggestions, here’s what I will try:
- remove dry food
- test more frequently, do at least one curve per week and try to do a middle of the day shot as well.

Do you suggest I go back to a 1.5U dose with more frequent testing?

thanks for your help!

 

[squeem3]

There are likely microchip programmable timed feeders with multiple compartments out there. Or try this: https://meowspace.biz/ Something similar could be DIYd.

The Viva raw and canned food are just fine For crunchies, try air dried raw food.

I don't know if you should decrease a whole unit to 1.5 or stick with 2.5 units. @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko

 

[Wendy&Neko]

When you remove dry food, do it very slowly, like no more than 10% per day. Slower transitions are easier on their tummy too. Since Dr. Elsey's is a theoretically low carb dry, you shouldn't see a huge change in dose needed. But we have seen some people find their cats go a bit higher on it.

First thing I'd do is start getting more tests during the day and night. It's too hard to say if he's going lower sometime between shots. Lantus generally does a downwards curve between the shots. Those night time tests often tell a different story, so a test at least 2-3 hours after the PM shot can say a lot. I would not reduce the dose until you have more data that tells you that you need to do so.

 

[asav]

We were out of town for a few days, but I removed the dry food (it was not a lot to begin with), so now he is only eating raw and wet food. The numbers did seem to drop a little bit, but not significantly. I'm trying to slowly shift his shots to earlier in the day (right now we are at 10AM/10PM), so that I can do some testing after the PM shots more easily, so hopefully we will see some changes that.

In the mean time, I've increased the dose to 2.75 as we've not had a measurement below 200 even at nadir times after removing the dry food, and I started seeing the numbers going above 300 again. Held that for 6 days, then went up to 3.0U, and I'm now seeing some nadir values below 200 (still above 150), but then the pre-shot numbers are higher than they were at a lower dose.

I did also find some Soulistic, they carried two of the lower-carb flavors and the cats actually loved it, so it's nice to have that around in case of emergencies. They are still on 90% raw, though.

I am going to be home a bit more in the next week, so I will be able to test those mid-day numbers better.

Thanks for all your help, and we would love some more insights! I am getting a bit worried that his pre-shot numbers are now going above 400 some times.

 

[CORKY]

We were out of town for a few days, but I removed the dry food (it was not a lot to begin with), so now he is only eating raw and wet food. The numbers did seem to drop a little bit, but not significantly. I'm trying to slowly shift his shots to earlier in the day (right now we are at 10AM/10PM), so that I can do some testing after the PM shots more easily, so hopefully we will see some changes that.

In the mean time, I've increased the dose to 2.75 as we've not had a measurement below 200 even at nadir times after removing the dry food, and I started seeing the numbers going above 300 again. Held that for 6 days, then went up to 3.0U, and I'm now seeing some nadir values below 200 (still above 150), but then the pre-shot numbers are higher than they were at a lower dose.

I did also find some Soulistic, they carried two of the lower-carb flavors and the cats actually loved it, so it's nice to have that around in case of emergencies. They are still on 90% raw, though.

I am going to be home a bit more in the next week, so I will be able to test those mid-day numbers better.

Thanks for all your help, and we would love some more insights! I am getting a bit worried that his pre-shot numbers are now going above 400 some times.

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Diane Tyler's Mom GA

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Savaj
Can you please fill out your signature
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I hope you can start to move his shooting times up so you can get some PM tests in , not just a +6
Vary the testing times

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Lovely to see those blue BGs starting to appear.
But we need to see what is happening during the pm cycles which is 1/2 of every day.