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Ernie B

Ernie B

Member Since 2022
Hi everyone! My name is Ernie and I live in Ontario Canada. My incredible kitty-man is Garfield (see avatar) and he is approx 14 years old. I rescued him off the streets about 7 years ago. After I took him in he had an ear tip fall off and the other damaged from frostbite exposure when he was a stray. He is a big boy 6.9kg and with a name like Garfield, he is of course orange and white. He was already neutered when I took him in.

Can someone please tell me if I have his spreadsheet added to my sig correctly?
Thank you in advance for providing this great resource.

Ernie and Garfield
 
Welcome Ernie and Garfield! I’m in Ontario too! Waving hello!

Spreadsheet looks good! So happy you’re already testing!!

You could add a few more items to your signature, ie: insulin type, diagnosis date, meter type, food he’s eating etc. Have a look at my signature for some guidance. Basically it’s a little summary to help our experienced members to quickly glance at to help you best
 
Ernie B said:
Thank you Kim and Gus. I will update my sig with more info on Monday when I have a day off.
Happy Caturday!
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Here is some reading on Caninsulin that you should have a look at. https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

It explains how Caninsulin works and dosing protocols we follow. I noticed Garfield started on a higher dose then we would usually recommend (0.5u-1u) and that he has missed a few reductions on this dose (anytime they fall under 90 is a earned 0.25u reduction).

Have you thought about making a switch to a more gentler, more cat appropriate insulin such as Lantus?
 
Gus the Furminator said:
Here is some reading on Caninsulin that you should have a look at. https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

It explains how Caninsulin works and dosing protocols we follow. I noticed Garfield started on a higher dose then we would usually recommend (0.5u-1u) and that he has missed a few reductions on this dose (anytime they fall under 90 is a earned 0.25u reduction).

Have you thought about making a switch to a more gentler, more cat appropriate insulin such as Lantus?
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We were just diagnosed a few weeks ago and the vet immediately put him on the 2 units of Caninsulin. He hasn't been dangerously low yet and the vet has given zero guidance so I have just been working on getting him into a stable routine (and me too) and monitoring to see where we are at. Because he was started on Caninsulin I wanted to see where we were at before making changes. Yes, I would like to switch him over when it is safe to do so.
 
Welcome. Waving from the Kawarthas.

I'm not a caninsulin user but I'm worried that the dose is too high.
From: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
Changing the Dose
Hold the starting dose for at least a week UNLESS​
      • your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
      • your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12-hour curve (i.e., testing every 2 hours) OR perform an 18 hour curve (i.e., testing every 3 hours). Note: Random spot checks are essential in order to "fill in the blanks" on your kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
The general guidelines for making dose changes are:​
      • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
      • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
      • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
      • HOWEVER, there are some situations which signal that a larger than usual dose reduction is needed. If you are unsure, please post on this forum or in the Health forum and ask for input about your dose.
I'm tagging @FrostD who is familiar with this insulin.
 
Thank you for that information, it is exactly what I needed and answered a bunch of questions.

I noticed that you also use the Freestyle Lite meter, where is the cheapest place for strips?
 
I agree with @Red & Rover (GA) that they started you on too high of a dose. I’d be getting earlier mid cycle tests in. Caninsulin kicks in at 1-2 hours after insulin and generally nadirs (lowest point of the cycle about 4-6 hours after shot.

I found Walmart to be the cheapest (I also use the freestyle lite) but if you have optimum points and catch the 20x points weekends, you get a good chunk back in points.

Edit to add: the bravo meter is available online only but is the cheapest meter we have. I believe it’s $40/100 strips. And since you have the freestyle lite, you can run out to Walmart or wherever if you forget to order ;)

https://diabetesexpress.ca/products/bravo-test-strips
 
Welcome!

His numbers are fantastic. As mentioned you do want to reduce the dose by 0.25U any time you get a number under 90. In this case, I would suggest reducing to 2U.

He is actually doing well on Caninsulin so I wouldnt rush to change at the moment.

I would also suggest trying to get some earlier tests in if you can, around +3 and +4 - nadir (lowest BG) on Vetsulin/Caninsulin is usually on the earlier side but not always. In these numbers, especially on this insulin, please do try to get at least one midcycle test between +4 and +7 whenever possible, both day and night.

Any explanation for the drop on numbers recently? Diet change? Infection that resolved? Dental?
 
Hey Ernie! And here's some scritches for the handsome Garfield too!!

I'm concerned that you haven't taken some reductions in dose that you should have. When using Caninsulin, if they drop below 90, then you should reduce the dose by .25. Dropping below 90 on Caninsulin tells you that the dose is too high and there have been a couple of 70's lately.

I'd really urge you to drop the dose back to 2U. You were started on a higher than normal dose (even if Garfield is a big cat) and we sure don't want him dropping too low. High numbers take time to do any damage...but the low ones can kill quickly.

I think we'd all feel better if you'd drop back to 2U and see how he does. We can always go up if he needs it!
 
Ernie B said:
Thank you for that information, it is exactly what I needed and answered a bunch of questions.

I noticed that you also use the Freestyle Lite meter, where is the cheapest place for strips?
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Strips are expensive in Canada. I used my PC Optimum points at Shoppers. If you have a senior handy, take advantage of Seniors Days or other PC promotions.

The problem with the Bravo meter is that you can only get strips online. It needs a large drop of blood. Larger than needed for the Freestyle Lite. If you run out during a low numbers event, you cannot run out and get more. You would need to have 300-400 strips on hand.
 
Just want to welcome you and Garfield, he's so adorable!
Just want to be sure you are testing, feeding then waiting 30 minutes to give Garfield his insulin.
You really have found the best place to be, Tyler wouldn't be in remission today if it wasn't for the experienced members here, everyone is so helpful
 
Welcome to FDMB!

I'm on the bandwagon with reducing Garfield's dose.

I also want to strongly encourage you to get more tests closer to Garfield's nadir (lowest point in the cycle). Typically, with Caninsulin the nadir is somewhere around +4 - +4.5. We tend to be cautious with Caninsulin because it is a harsh, shorter acting insulin that can drop numbers hard and fast. It would be very helpful if you can get a curve. A curve involves testing every 2-3 hours for a 12-hour cycle. This will give you information about when the insulin kicks in (i.e., onset), when nadir falls, and how long the insulin is having an effect on Garfield's numbers (i.e., duration). The information will give you more information so you can test strategically and know how your kitty is responding to insulin.
 
Thank you to all that have welcomed and replied.

Everything is making more sense with all this new information. He was 6.8 this morning and 6.9 at +9 when I got home from work.

Tomorrow he will be starting the day with 2 units and I am off so I will be testing hourly for the 1st 3 hours and then every other hour after that.
Let's see what happens with that and go from there.

I have been feeding him Fancy Feast Pate for his two meals and giving him freeze dried chicken breast treats for treats. What would you suggest for a dry kibble for him to graze on between meals?
 
@Ernie B
can add additional information about Garfield to your signature please
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine
 
Ernie B said:
I have been feeding him Fancy Feast Pate for his two meals and giving him freeze dried chicken breast treats for treats. What would you suggest for a dry kibble for him to graze on between meals?
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We really don't like to feed any kibble , you can give him the FF Pate instead of kibble say @+2 and @+4 about a tablespoon or so.
If you work you might want to think about getting an auto feeder where you can set the times for it to open.
If you want to let him graze on kibble, I don't know if they ship to Canada but here they are

yes there are lower dry carb foods around 5 or 6 % carbs
They are expensive though
As far as lc dry You can try
Dr Elsey's chicken flavor and young again zero will send you samples just call them
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE




Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90



Here is their web site
https://www.wysong.net/epigen
Call then see if they will send a sample


Do you have a hypo kit set up in case you need to bring his numbers up

Do you have any med and high carb wet food and some honey?
Such as

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.

Glad you are reducing to 2 units don't forget
As mentioned you do want to reduce the dose by 0.25U any time you get a number under 90.

@Gus the Furminator

@Red & Rover (GA)
Do you know if any of the kibble I listed ship to Canada
 
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My lovely pin cushion pal was very brave during all the testing. results posted and sig line updated.
 
FrostD said:
Awesome. The 1.75U was a good call since he earned a reduction today. Be sure to get a test tonight!

I suspect the 1.75U may be a little high as well.
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Thanks. I have been trying to get a handle on this as quickly as possible because Garfie is my best friend.

His +2 after the 1.75U was 4.4. Is it safe to take him down to 1.5U tomorrow AM?
 
Yes, down to 1.5U. That dose appears to be ok above 120 but I suspect he has more reductions coming. Below 120, I'd suggest a partial dose (0.25U-0.75U) based on your ability to monitor. If you can't test, then skip.

Then as far as this morning - you actually do not want to shoot anything under 90 on Vetsulin. We do like more wiggle room than that, most of the time the cutoff is about 110-120 so we'll want to watch that.

If you get a low preshot like that, we recommend stalling without feeding, retesting, and waiting until they come up to a shootable number. Caveat being if you wait too long, they may naturally start to come down a bit due to not eating. Of course that means your next shot would be off schedule and you'd have to work your way back to normal time - not easy with his numbers, probably 15 minute increments. So it may end up better to skip.
 
FrostD said:
Yes, down to 1.5U. That dose appears to be ok above 120 but I suspect he has more reductions coming. Below 120, I'd suggest a partial dose (0.25U-0.75U) based on your ability to monitor. If you can't test, then skip.

Then as far as this morning - you actually do not want to shoot anything under 90 on Vetsulin. We do like more wiggle room than that, most of the time the cutoff is about 110-120 so we'll want to watch that.

If you get a low preshot like that, we recommend stalling without feeding, retesting, and waiting until they come up to a shootable number. Caveat being if you wait too long, they may naturally start to come down a bit due to not eating. Of course that means your next shot would be off schedule and you'd have to work your way back to normal time - not easy with his numbers, probably 15 minute increments. So it may end up better to skip.
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thank you! That is the kind of info I need. So generally if he is under 6.5 at feeding time skip the dose completely so we don't risk getting him too low.
 
Ernie B said:
thank you! That is the kind of info I need. So generally if he is under 6.5 at feeding time skip the dose completely so we don't risk getting him too low.
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That's my best guess for now. I think he's still going to come down in dose here so just be extra cautious! Lower doses, extra testing, etc.
 
I am excited for Garfield! Tuesday pm was I think a complete FurShot so I tested closely after and his numbers were perfect. This Am I gave him his 1.5U and he had a low of 4.5 at +6 so I gave him a bit of extra food. Tonight at pm he tested at 6.1 so I skipped his after-dinner dose. We are now at +2 and he just tested a perfect 6.2!! I will test him again before I go to bed.
 
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