New Member, first post ... AlphaTrak3 vs a Human monitor?

[Barb 4 Angus]

When I search for what is a normal BG range for a cat almost every site gives numbers like this ...80-120 mg/dl (4.4-6.6 mmol/L) .
Are those those the numbers that we want to see if we are using a human BG monitor? Or any monitor?
I am using the AlphaTrak 3 monitor and strip vial indicates the provided control solution range is 107 - 145 mg/dl 5.9 -8.1mmol/L .
Is the control range with the solution the same as what a normal BG range would be ? What would be a normal range the AlphaTrak 3 ... and what's normal for a cat on a monitor meant for humans ?
The Alpha Trak also gives slightly different range for horses .... worked with horses for 35 years ... never knew they could be diabetic ! how would you a person know ? horses pee all the time! and the CARBS they can pack away !! who knew?!?
And much thanks to all the great people who have created this forum and provided such a wealth of knowledge and support ! thank you for being here to help us through a very scary learning curve.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

When I search for what is a normal BG range for a cat almost every site gives numbers like this ...80-120 mg/dl (4.4-6.6 mmol/L) .
Are those those the numbers that we want to see if we are using a human BG monitor? Or any monitor?
I am using the AlphaTrak 3 monitor and strip vial indicates the provided control solution range is 107 - 145 mg/dl 5.9 -8.1mmol/L .
Is the control range with the solution the same as what a normal BG range would be ? What would be a normal range the AlphaTrak 3 ... and what's normal for a cat on a monitor meant for humans ?
The Alpha Trak also gives slightly different range for horses .... worked with horses for 35 years ... never knew they could be diabetic ! how would you a person know ? horses pee all the time! and the CARBS they can pack away !! who knew?!?
And much thanks to all the great people who have created this forum and provided such a wealth of knowledge and support ! thank you for being here to help us through a very scary learning curve.

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Bandit's Mom

Hi ladies can you take a look at Barb's Spreadsheet , looks like she is increasing by 0.5 units
Then on 2-26 gave 1.5 and then 2 units for the PM cycle
2-27 back to 2 units AM and PM dose
2-28 no AMPS and no insulin then 1.5 for PMPS
Spreadsheet says following TR

Thank you ladies

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

The normal range for a cat using a human meter is 50-120
The normal range for a cat using AT# meter is 68- approximately 150

Looking at your spreadsheet you say you are doing TR dosing protocol.
To do that you have to test at least 2 times every cycle. At preshot and then again during the cycle.
Looking at your SS I can only see 1 test taken during the PM cycle
You are missing out on half the BG data.
Do you think you can get at least one test in every PM cycle?

Also you are chopping and changing the dose too often and not following the TR dosing protocol.
Lantus dosing is based on the nadir or lowest point in the cycle, not the preshot BG.
This is why it is so important you get those mid cycle tests in during all the cycles

 

[Barb 4 Angus]

The normal range for a cat using a human meter is 50-120
The normal range for a cat using AT# meter is 68- approximately 150

Looking at your spreadsheet you say you are doing TR dosing protocol.
To do that you have to test at least 2 times every cycle. At preshot and then again during the cycle.
Looking at your SS I can only see 1 test taken during the PM cycle
You are missing out on half the BG data.
Do you think you can get at least one test in every PM cycle?

Also you are chopping and changing the dose too often and not following the TR dosing protocol.
Lantus dosing is based on the nadir or lowest point in the cycle, not the preshot BG.
This is why it is so important you get those mid cycle tests in during all the cycles

When I started the spreadsheet I put in TR protocol because my vet said start with 1.5u and well check numbers in a week ... when I started all this I was not fully versed in how to do samples EASILY with each sample the numbers seemed to be getting higher ( stress ?) so I only tested before each dose ... testing is getting better
after week 1 vet raised the dose to 2 u started 0n Feb 20
last weekend i could see the levels creeping down a bit when i contacted the clinic to ask at what level does the BG have to drop to before I should inject ... no vets available to ask ... waited for a call back .... so on the 26th when his AM BG was 7.3 I was afraid to give the full 2 u hence the 1.5u following advice found here when unsure give less... then back to 2u when the BG values crept up

On the 27 i went to the clinic to try and get a face to face about my concerns as well as pick up more test strips .. they had NONE ! and now I am down to my last strip for the PM check
By the time i got back home a vet had called and after we spoke she recommended to drop him back to 1.5u ... that evening with the last test strip his AT 8:22PM BG was 14.2 so I went with 2.0u ...
So come Friday morning with no strips to test BG and seeing the numbers creeping down i did not shoot. Amazon came through just after 11 am and so i testedAT 11:20 an got the 6.4 BG ... did not shoot the am dose at that point because i wanted to keep with even dosing 12 hrs apart so he got the 1.5u as per vet , at 8:30pm and tested again at 10:39PM ..So at this point he had no insulin for a full 24 hrs
Today , Saturday am I tested got 13.9 at 7:30 gave 1.5 u at 8:00am did BG at 10:50am got 10.1 ...another BG 12:59pm got 7.1 ... 3:00pm BG at 6.3 ... 6:00pm BG at 6.4... 8:00pm BG at 7.3... gave 1.5u shot

lessons learned ...
1. don't trust the vet clinic that sold you the most expensive monitor to have more test strips in stock
2. get extra strips wayyyy before you run out ... see lesson 1
3. get another brand of monitor that won't gouge you on their test strips Alpha Trak 3 $135.00 cdn for 50 seems a bit high see lesson 1
4. start shopping for another clinic that has not been taken over by some faceless corporation. see lesson 1
5. know that there will be more lessons to be learned
thanks again for everyones help and direction

I forgot to mention ... when I sopke with the vet on the 27th she wondered if maybe we were seeing the higher BG values due to the Somogiy effect , another reason she thought dropping back to 1.5u would be a safer dose and also suggested trying to get BG test every 2 hours

 

[Barb 4 Angus]

additionally ... everytime I have to take a sample I have to use a distraction in the form of 1-2 teaspoons of Friskies chicken pate or what ever flavour is open ... always a Friskies pate ... and we are slowly switching from the canned DM ... another clinic prescribed $$$ scam food ...

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

If you are looking for a cheaper meter I would go with a human meter. If you live in the US, the ReliOn premier meter if cheap and the strips cheap and easily accessible. This meter is fine to use with cats.

The thing to remember is Lantus dosing is based on the nadir or lowest point in the cycle, not the Preshot BG.
If I were you I would pick either TR or SLGS and follow the dosing method. I would print iff the method and hilight important points. And remember you can post daily fur help. We are always here for you.
Keep asking questions

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Waving "Hi" from BC. The Freestyle Lite is a more cost effective meter, with small blood drop requirements, that is used by a number of Canadians. And you can get the test strips at most stores. Another option people use to buy cheap test strips is eBay - though you have to buy more in advance. I tried to make sure I had at least 200 strips at all times. But I bought from the US and had them delivered to a US post box.

One other thing - Somogyi is not a thing. The theory behind it resulted from tests on humans, on very short lasting insulins, over a 100 years ago, and wasn't peer reviewed research. There has been since peer reviewed research on whether it occurs in cats on Lantus. And as long as you start on a low dose, increase by smaller amounts, and test to see how low the dose is taking him, you don't need to worry.

 

[Barb 4 Angus]

If you are looking for a cheaper meter I would go with a human meter. If you live in the US, the ReliOn premier meter if cheap and the strips cheap and easily accessible. This meter is fine to use with cats.

The thing to remember is Lantus dosing is based on the nadir or lowest point in the cycle, not the Preshot BG.
If I were you I would pick either TR or SLGS and follow the dosing method. I would print iff the method and hilight important points. And remember you can post daily fur help. We are always here for you.
Keep asking questions

I'm in Canada and I've been looking into what is available here either in drug stores or Amazon.
I spent most of the day reading through posts here and going over the info on both TR and SLGS .... at the moment I feel overwhelmed but a little more enlightened . Also been able to get many more BG tests done with less stress and back on track with 12/12 dosing at 1.5 ... I hope today's BGs are an indicator that we are on the right path .
We are going on holiday in 2 weeks and I have family that will be caring for Angus in their home . The timing sucks but at least they know him and will be able to take good care of him . I will also provide them with all the info I have gathered here and if its OK , allow them to log on to my account here to keep his SS updated and have access to the wealth of knowledge and expertise here, from kind people such as yourself!
Thanks again Bron , your comments have helped me to feel a bit more at ease with all this.
cheers!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Absolutely OK to have a relative or additional caregiver log on and keep things updated. Maybe get them to sign the end of their posts with their name, so we know it's not you.

Hope you are going somewhere fun!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

Congrats on getting started with home testing. There is some variation in what you'll find on various sites and even on lab reports as to what "normal" blood glucose levels are. In part, this may be due to different ways blood glucose is measured. The AlphaTrack is calibrated differently and serum chemistry analyzers (i.e., lab values) use a different method compared to a "human" meter. The AT measures a bit higher than a human meter.

Just a word about the AT meter... If your vet tells you that a human meter is inaccurate, we've seen both meters used and in the 25+ years this site has been in operation, there's never been an issue with a human glucometer. Human meters were routinely used before the AlphaTrack manufacturers started aggressively promoting them with vets and home testing was gaining popularity.

It's great that you have your spreadsheet set up. I'd also like to encourage you to provide more information in your signature. This is a link to a post on helping us to help you. It covers some basic information along with having instructions for setting up your signature. The signature tells us a bit about Angus and his diabetes so we don't nag you by asking the same questions repeatedly.

You're starting to see good numbers. I would echo Bron's concern about making sure that you get a minimum of one test during the PM cycle. Many cats experience lower numbers at night. If you don't test, you're missing half of your data and there's no way to know if Angus dropped into low numbers and you need to reduce his dose. It's the only way to ensure your cat's safety. We encourage members to get a "before bed" test every night.

There is a huge temptation to adjust a dose based on what you're seeing at shot time. Lantus is a different type of insulin in that is forms a depot. Every time you give a shot, the insulin forms crystals that are deposited in the fat tissue. Most of those crystals dissolve over the course of the 12-hour cycle but some remain and continue to dissolve into the next cycle. If you adjust the dose from one cycle to the next, the depot is destabilized. The result is that you don't get the response to Lantus that you're looking for. As Bron noted, you don't typically make a change in dose based on the pre-shot number. Doses are adjusted if your cat drops below 68 with the AT meter (50 on a human meter) or if after 3 days/6 cycles, your cat's blood glucose numbers are not in a good range.

Much of this information can be found in the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus forum.

 

[Barb 4 Angus]

Waving "Hi" from BC. The Freestyle Lite is a more cost effective meter, with small blood drop requirements, that is used by a number of Canadians. And you can get the test strips at most stores. Another option people use to buy cheap test strips is eBay - though you have to buy more in advance. I tried to make sure I had at least 200 strips at all times. But I bought from the US and had them delivered to a US post box.

One other thing - Somogyi is not a thing. The theory behind it resulted from tests on humans, on very short lasting insulins, over a 100 years ago, and wasn't peer reviewed research. There has been since peer reviewed research on whether it occurs in cats on Lantus. And as long as you start on a low dose, increase by smaller amounts, and test to see how low the dose is taking him, you don't need to worry.

well hey neighbour! I'm in Ottawa , but please don't hold that against me ! We're actually heading to South Carolina , (and please dont hold that against me either ;-) ) I will look into the Relion meter while down there . WOW 200 strips !?! I guess if they are less costly the expiration thing is not so bad. How many months do they typically last ?
I was wondering about the Somogyi deal ... had seen it mentioned here and after the vet chat I looked it up and yes it seems that you're right !
Yesterday's BGs look better to me and this AM at 7:23 , he was at 7.8 on my AlphaT3 . So feeling hopeful here.
thanks for the encouragement !

 

[Barb 4 Angus]

Waving "Hi" from BC. The Freestyle Lite is a more cost effective meter, with small blood drop requirements, that is used by a number of Canadians. And you can get the test strips at most stores. Another option people use to buy cheap test strips is eBay - though you have to buy more in advance. I tried to make sure I had at least 200 strips at all times. But I bought from the US and had them delivered to a US post box.

One other thing - Somogyi is not a thing. The theory behind it resulted from tests on humans, on very short lasting insulins, over a 100 years ago, and wasn't peer reviewed research. There has been since peer reviewed research on whether it occurs in cats on Lantus. And as long as you start on a low dose, increase by smaller amounts, and test to see how low the dose is taking him, you don't need to worry.

Welcome to FDMB!

Congrats on getting started with home testing. There is some variation in what you'll find on various sites and even on lab reports as to what "normal" blood glucose levels are. In part, this may be due to different ways blood glucose is measured. The AlphaTrack is calibrated differently and serum chemistry analyzers (i.e., lab values) use a different method compared to a "human" meter. The AT measures a bit higher than a human meter.

Just a word about the AT meter... If your vet tells you that a human meter is inaccurate, we've seen both meters used and in the 25+ years this site has been in operation, there's never been an issue with a human glucometer. Human meters were routinely used before the AlphaTrack manufacturers started aggressively promoting them with vets and home testing was gaining popularity.

It's great that you have your spreadsheet set up. I'd also like to encourage you to provide more information in your signature. This is a link to a post on helping us to help you. It covers some basic information along with having instructions for setting up your signature. The signature tells us a bit about Angus and his diabetes so we don't nag you by asking the same questions repeatedly.

You're starting to see good numbers. I would echo Bron's concern about making sure that you get a minimum of one test during the PM cycle. Many cats experience lower numbers at night. If you don't test, you're missing half of your data and there's no way to know if Angus dropped into low numbers and you need to reduce his dose. It's the only way to ensure your cat's safety. We encourage members to get a "before bed" test every night.
There is a huge temptation to adjust a dose based on what you're seeing at shot time. Lantus is a different type of insulin in that is forms a depot. Every time you give a shot, the insulin forms crystals that are deposited in the fat tissue. Most of those crystals dissolve over the course of the 12-hour cycle but some remain and continue to dissolve into the next cycle. If you adjust the dose from one cycle to the next, the depot is destabilized. The result is that you don't get the response to Lantus that you're looking for. As Bron noted, you don't typically make a change in dose based on the pre-shot number. Doses are adjusted if your cat drops below 68 with the AT meter (50 on a human meter) or if after 3 days/6 cycles, your cat's blood glucose numbers are not in a good range.

Much of this information can be found in the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus forum.

I hope my sig info is ok , if someone could take a look and let me know... thanks!
on Alphatrak3 ... here's how that went down ... 1st visit with vet , exam, consult , blood work , urine tests etc ... overwhelmed <--- me
2nd consult with vet and no cat , talked about results of tests and next steps and she actually had mentioned a few human meters i could get, diet for Angus, wet Friskies no sauces etc. &the evils of dry food
3rd visit with the tech & cat was to show me how to do home tests (not much help) , give shots, get the right line on the syringe , she shaved a spot at nape/shoulder area for ease of jabs ... and low and behold she had the AlphaT3 already out the box popped open the strip vial and then... its like she had never seen the newest AT3 cuz she hadn't ! that was about it , then I'm at the cash heading home with cat, still not sure why he was there, fancy new AT3 and over $300.00 poorer...

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Your signature looks good.

You might want to pass along to the vet the difference in cost for the AT -- both strips and meter -- vs a human meter. Often vets have no idea what the costs involved are and it can be a major issue that causes caregivers to make decisions about their pet that can be heartbreaking.

 

[Barb 4 Angus]

Waving "Hi" from BC. The Freestyle Lite is a more cost effective meter, with small blood drop requirements, that is used by a number of Canadians. And you can get the test strips at most stores. Another option people use to buy cheap test strips is eBay - though you have to buy more in advance. I tried to make sure I had at least 200 strips at all times. But I bought from the US and had them delivered to a US post box.

One other thing - Somogyi is not a thing. The theory behind it resulted from tests on humans, on very short lasting insulins, over a 100 years ago, and wasn't peer reviewed research. There has been since peer reviewed research on whether it occurs in cats on Lantus. And as long as you start on a low dose, increase by smaller amounts, and test to see how low the dose is taking him, you don't need to worry.

I have been searching where to buy a Freestyle Lite in Canada but so far no joy ... the Drug stores like Shoppers Drug Mart, Rexall and IDA dont show much of anything on their sites . I can get a free Contour NextGen if I buy the strips .. which I can get 20% off on seniors day! The Contour says it needs a larger sample compared to the Freestyle info I have found.
With all the poutine and beaver tail eaters and Tim Hortons in Canada BG meters would be easy to find!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

I would get a meter that you can find strips for. I'm in the US and there was no Walmart close plus, at the time, the ratings on the Relion weren't great. I used a Contour -- although it's an older model. Remember to do price comparisons on Ebay and Amazon.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I guess the Freestyle Lite is more available in the west coast. Too bad, it's test strips are a bit cheaper. Don't forget to check pharmacies of grocery stores too. Oddly enough, the Safeway pharmacy near me was the cheapest place to buy insulin, syringes, lancets, etc. Real Canadian Superstore and Costco also had good prices. I have seen some people here use the Contour NextGen. It's in the category of "next smallest blood drop requirement", so not too bad. Way back in the day, I had a backup Contour too. People in your half of the country have commented that they buy at Shoppers with points, and on seniors day too. In the west coast, their prices are higher than most other pharmacies so overall it's not much of a savings.

 

[SmallestSparrow]

I’m not going to get into the debate of human vs pet meter. I use an AT3 because the number you see is most likely the number that would be on a lab test. Most are happy to have a ball park number from a human meter. It’s understandable when vets ask you to use a pet specific meter (there are some less expensive than AT but are still more expensive than the cheapest human meter): I am a physician and if a diabetic patient asked me to adjust their insulin based on them using a pet meter I would say I could not. It’s not appropriate professional standards. That said— To each their own on what meter you use.

I do have one answer to a question you had that o don’t see was answered, and one note: the control solution range is just to be sure the meter and strips are working correctly. Each time you open a new vial, or if you drop your meter, be it human or pet meter, you should do a control solution check. If you get a wonky test result you should do a control solution check. When you do the control solution check first mark it in the meter as a control solution check by inserting the strip, waiting for the “ok to test” icons of blood drop and test strip, and then hold the “c” button until a test bottle icon appears. This let the machine use the right test solution algorithm. Then do the test as described in the manual. So that range just means if the result you get is in that range, the meter and strip are working correctly.

the note: on the AT3 as I said the number is likely very accurate. Human meters tend to read higher than what the true result would be in a lab. There is also variation around that “true” number for any meter. Many human meters it is 20-25%. The AT3 it is 15% EXCEPT for numbers under 100–then it is plus/minus 15 mg/dl. So the 90’s the last couple of days could 70’s and that 68 could have really been as low as 53.

 

[Barb 4 Angus]

WOW ! that's very interesting ... Thank you ! I sent the BG results for the last 6 days to my Vet and she told me not to dose him tonight and start a lower dose of 1u Friday morning.

Friday AM ....
I picked up a Freestyle Lite .... at 7 am i used the AT3 only and he was 9.0 . he ate a good meal of 1/2 of 156g can LC pate with rounded tsp pumpkin , got the 1.0u dose at 8 am , i then did BG at 9 am using both meters the AT3 showed him at 9.3mmol/L and the Freestyle gave the BG at 6.3mmol/L . I entered the AT3 values on his SS this morning and will continue to use it for the SS entries.