New member - Dexter - glucose drop

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Tinytowncatlady

Tinytowncatlady

Member Since 2021
Hi, this is my first time posting here.
Please read my profile info to get an idea of Dexters story.

Long story short for this post..
Dexter is 8
diagnosed on 4/6
I am trying very hard to home monitor but I have lost his trust completely and no matter how hard I try and I have watched videos and followed the rice bag warmed ears tips. but I cannot get his test witout multiple pokes. I have wasted at least 15 sticks due to not enough blood, or it timed out due the battery in the new device dying.

please see his spreadsheet

today verses previous days.
I was fairly happy that for the first time since Dx his fasting AM glucose was under 400. perhaps the New diet is starting to help his diabetes?
then I tested 2 hours ago and it was 106. The lowest ever tested.
Should I be concerned??
I did drop his dose from 4u to 3 this morning since his glucose was considerably lower than all other days.

Today his first meal with insulin was around 9:45 am
Dinner between 9 to 10pm
 
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Hello and welcome!

Great catch on the 106! Testing can be a steep learning curve in the beginning, I'm glad you're sticking with it.

106 is low-- not dangerously so, but lower than you probably would like on Vetsulin, and it's definitely a huge drop from the morning, which also isn't something you want to aim for with an insulin like that.

Please do feed a little snack. It's late enough after the shot (+6) that the insulin should be starting to wear off, but just to be safe. If he'll let you, test again in a half hour or hour to verify that he's coming up.

More in the next message, just wanted to get that out quick...
 
OK, so here are some more thoughts!

Dexter's current situation: I'm glad you dropped the dose from 4 to 3U, that was smart. You might want to drop even more (tagging @Deb & Wink for some Vetsulin help here). 4U is quite a large starting dose (we usually start at 1U or less) and he's starting to settle into the food change to low-carb. The other thing to consider is that it's possible that his diabetes is steroid-induced, so depending on when his last steroid shot was, he might be starting to bounce back.

Speaking of the steroid shots: yep, unfortunately they do have that side effect of potentially triggering diabetes. Sometimes there are alternative treatments for some conditions (I think there is a non-steroid medication for kitty asthma, for example), but the bottom line is: if he needs the steroids for his AI, he needs them. Diabetes is a rotten side effect to be sure, but it is manageable, and you can always 'dose around' whatever insulin needs are triggered by steroids.

Testing: what size lancets are you using? When starting out, you definitely want the thicker gauge lancets, 26 or 28 gauge. The thinner ones (30 or 31) are more common, but you don't want to try using them until his ears have learned to bleed more easily. Eventually new capillaries will grow in response to the poking, but until then, the thicker gauge is the way to go!

In terms of "losing his trust", don't worry, you have a big advantage in having a food-and-treats motivated cat :cat:. Just keep giving him treats and praise with every testing attempt (even if it wasn't successful). It won't take him long before he associates the testing with good things, and before you know it he'll be "asking" to get tested :rolleyes:.

Once you get more comfortable with the testing, you'll be able to really take control of Dexter's diabetes management. What I'm seeing in the spreadsheet right now (pink-red pre-shots, blue numbers during the day) makes me think that today's drop may be pretty common for Dexter. The red pre-shots go hand-in-hand with the lower numbers. What happens is, when a cat's BG drops fast or goes lower than the cat's body is used to, there's a counter-reaction by the body, dumping sugars into the blood. So he starts high, plunges down after the shot, and then by the next pre-shot-- back up again! We call this phenomenon "bouncing" and it's a real pain to deal with, but it's perfectly normal. So don't be surprised if he's sky-high at the next test!

Because it's dangerous to go too low (below 50 on a human meter, but with Vetsulin you don't really want to even get close to that), we try to adjust dosage based on the lowest point during the day (the nadir), not the (possibly bouncing) pre-shots. So, even if he's sky-high at the next pre-shot, that doesn't mean he needs to go back up in insulin dose. He may even need to go down, for safety.

As you and Dexter get more comfortable with testing and you're able to get more between-shots tests in, the picture will get a lot clearer. You're doing great so far, though, hang in there!
 
When I test him again in 30 mins or so what kind of number do I want to see? I don't completely understand how his blood glucose is affected by low carb food and how it correlates to the pancreas.
 
Tinytowncatlady said:
When I test him again in 30 mins or so what kind of number do I want to see?
Click to expand...

Basically, you just want to make sure he's not going any lower than that 106. If he is, then you'll have to give more snacks, possibly including some carbs to bring him up.

Tinytowncatlady said:
I don't completely understand how his blood glucose is affected by low carb food and how it correlates to the pancreas.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's very very tricky. In addition to the inputs of food and insulin, you have to deal with the cat's individual reactions. Long story short, it just takes a bit of time to learn your cat's individual patterns. Some cats are extremely sensitive to carbs, and BG takes off like a rocket whenever they get any. Other cats barely notice anything less than a tsp of honey, lol.

For the carb-sensitive kitties, the switch to low-carb food can have a really dramatic effect on insulin needs, sometimes dropping BG by a hundred points or more. We've even seen some lucky cats go straight into remission after changing their diet, but it certainly doesn't happen with every cat.
 
Thanks so much! your info really makes sense. I did drop the dose for several days. but those big numbers were making me rethink questioning the prescribed dose. I am very glad I was able to test twice successfully today. It still took more than one poke but I have not used my laptop in years so the picture of the ears didnt really help until I saw it posted on another thread today.
Thank you for this....."Eventually new capillaries will grow in response to the poking"
I thought I was ruining all of his veins in his ears because they look so bad from the 26g lancet pokes.
 
Tinytowncatlady said:
I thought I was ruining all of his veins in his ears because they look so bad from the 26g lancet pokes.
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If you apply a little pressure with a tissue after the pokes, it blots any blood you managed to get and helps prevent bruising. They might be getting a little sensitive right now, which won't help in getting him on board for testing.

But don't worry about "ruining" his ears. They will heal up just fine :cat:.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Dexter's current situation: I'm glad you dropped the dose from 4 to 3U, that was smart. You might want to drop even more (tagging @Deb & Wink for some Vetsulin help here). 4U is quite a large starting dose (we usually start at 1U or less) and he's starting to settle into the food change to low-carb. The other thing to consider is that it's possible that his diabetes is steroid-induced, so depending on when his last steroid shot was, he might be starting to bounce back.
Click to expand...
I'm just now being able to get a test on Dexter and it was 3:36. It's time for him to eat again and I'm concerned about the insulin dose. At 6 hours into his 12-hour after meal insulin he was down to 106 so is it too big of a drop for me to drop down to two units from the three that I gave him this morning.
 
I like the idea of two units. The thing about that 106 is that he might have gone even lower earlier-- Vetsulin nadirs around +5 or even +4. So I think going conservative on dose is a good idea, especially if you can't get nighttime tests. Many cats dip lower at night than during the day.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
The thing about that 106 is that he might have gone even lower earlier-- Vetsulin nadirs around +5 or even +4. So I think going conservative on dose is a good idea, especially if you can't get nighttime tests. Many cats dip lower at night than during the day.
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That's very scary to think about. He really didn't want to eat tonight I don't think he's feeling very well. It is getting close to the end of the month and I believe he had his last steroid injection at the end of March. His eyes are runny which is a little bit of a change because before he was diagnosed with diabetes he always had really black gunked up eye junk on his eyes. Like pulling a pencil eraser disk off of his eyes everyday. I never know how the autoimmune response is going to be from month to month. The good thing is I know he does not have any problem at all with his teeth. The bad thing is that if it is a bad response I really don't want him to have a dose of steroids at least while we're trying to get this under control. I'm praying that the new diet will help the autoimmune disease and that maybe this it's just allergies because we have yellow everything from pollen.
Dropping down to two units. I finally got him to eat a full meal and this time he had more can food versus Darwin's. Poor baby I hate when he feels bad.
 
I know you're probably putting together a response but I was wondering. If I want to set an alarm to test him overnight, When would be his most likely lowest dip time? Based on what I actually have put together so far. +3 or +4 hours after insulin?
 
Yes, a +3 or +4 would be good.

I'm afraid I'm logging off now, it is very late for me. I'm going to tag @Bron and Sheba (GA), who can sometimes be around in the wee hours. If you need help quickly or have a question you can also edit the title of your post to get more eyes on the thread.

I'm glad Dexter is feeling a little better and ate for you :). Poor little guy. Really, I would not hold off on a steroid shot because of the diabetes, if the shot makes that much of a difference for him.
 
I have found it in your profile .....the SS. I agree I would get a +3 tonight.
One thing I would mention is ...always get at least one test in during the pm cycle to make sure he is safe. If that test is much lower than the preshot test, you will need to set the alarm to get up and test again.
Try not to sleep through the alarm. Move it away from the bed so you have to get up to turn it off.
 
Thanks so much! I've already heated my large rice bag and have my little mini rice bags tucked under it in a insulated cooler.
 
I see he dipped down again last night-- he does like those big drops, almost 200pts!

I don't think I'd want to shoot any more than 2U at this time, after seeing that. I wonder if shooting even less might help flatten out his trampoline action? Tagging @JanetNJ for some more Vetsulin expertise. I know there are other people who know this insulin well, I'm just not one of them.

How is he feeling today?
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
I see he dipped down again last night-- he does like those big drops, almost 200pts!

I don't think I'd want to shoot any more than 2U at this time, after seeing that. I wonder if shooting even less might help flatten out his trampoline action? Tagging @JanetNJ for some more Vetsulin expertise. I know there are other people who know this insulin well, I'm just not one of them.

How is he feeling today?
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I only was able to test twice yesterday due to being gone most the day. We are adjusting hours again because Sunday threw us off schedule and all of the cats are starving when I send my husband off to work at 7:00. His numbers seem to be at least staying under 400 on two units. Last night we tested and fed and gave insulin 2 hours early, however, his numbers did not jump as high this morning. It seems to be feeling a little bit better even decided to attack one of his siblings at 3:00 a.m. just for meanness.
He was hungry and agitated because I would not Wake up and feed him.
 
Glad he's feeling better!

Tinytowncatlady said:
even decided to attack one of his siblings at 3:00 a.m. just for meanness.
He was hungry and agitated because I would not Wake up and feed him.
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Can you leave food out for him? Or would the siblings eat it? It's a little harder with wet food than with kibble, but one trick is to freeze little "catsicle" chunks of the wet food. By the time he's looking for a snack, it'll be thawed. Though with a really food-motivated cat, sometimes they don't wait for that :rolleyes:.

Both excessive hunger and aggression can be signs of hypoglycemia-- so it's a matter of whether he was attacking his sibling to be playful, or really acting aggressively. Leaving snacks out can be a good safety measure-- lots of cats will respond to hypoglycemia first by seeking out food, and that can help bring them back up :).
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Glad he's feeling better!



Can you leave food out for him? Or would the siblings eat it? It's a little harder with wet food than with kibble, but one trick is to freeze little "catsicle" chunks of the wet food. By the time he's looking for a snack, it'll be thawed. Though with a really food-motivated cat, sometimes they don't wait for that :rolleyes:.

Both excessive hunger and aggression can be signs of hypoglycemia-- so it's a matter of whether he was attacking his sibling to be playful, or really acting aggressively. Leaving snacks out can be a good safety measure-- lots of cats will respond to hypoglycemia first by seeking out food, and that can help bring them back up :).
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I was reading about hypoglycemia and saw the aggression symptom after posting my reply. I also think he was giving me some cues today to tell me that he was hungry an hour or two after he had eaten. He gets a generous portion of raw diet that is 1% carbs at meal times. I also purchased some breeders choice chunky ground beef that I am cutting into tiny cubes and freezing them. I can keep some of these on hand to give him anytime he is hungry. They should not affect his blood sugar. This beef has a higher fat content of 11% but zero carb. Hopefully that might take the edge off the hunger also.
Having a diabetic cat really teaches you a lot of things that you think you already know about your cat.
Just to keep things safe we are keeping the kitty cat that he does not like that much in the back of the house when he's not supervised.
 
Hello
My cat is on lantus after diabetes relapse. She has asthma and recently coughed. Can theo dur (theophylline) pill or flixotide 125/flovent(flucticasone) inhaler or aerolin (salbutamol )inhaler affect bg? How do you control your diabetic cats' asthma?
 
dionysia ke said:
Hello
My cat is on lantus after diabetes relapse. She has asthma and recently coughed. Can theo dur (theophylline) pill or flixotide 125/flovent(flucticasone) inhaler or aerolin (salbutamol )inhaler affect bg? How do you control your diabetic cats' asthma?
Click to expand...
Hi. I'm new here so I'm still getting the hang of things but you need to create a new thread under the main forum. If you're a new member put new member and then your topic and paste everything that you put in your message on this thread.
Otherwise nobody's going to see it. I got alerts because I created this thread.
I hope this helps your kitty. I had a scare last night with mine so I'm glad people were there to reply to my thread.
 
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