New Member Bridgette & Meiwei (Unconfirmed Diagnosis), Home Testing Question

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Bridgette77

Bridgette77

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Background (Health Summary Bullet Form Below): Hi All. My name is Bridgette. My cat's name is Meiwei. She is a 9 year old American Short Hair that we adopted 6 years ago from the animal shelter. We took her to the vet on 11/1/2024 because she was urinating in front of her box and had started tracking wet litter out of the box. She had also been emptying her water bowl overnight. I thought it was a UTI. I have my own chronic health condition and was in a flare for most of Oct so my 12 year was in charge of kitty care and I am not quite sure when the extra litter box visits and extra drinking started. I am doing better now and have fully taken back over kitty care.

The vet suspected diabetes at the visit and said Meiwei was dehydrated. They weren't able to do a urine sample at the office but did draw standard blood work. This is a new vet's office for us and My husband was the one at the vet so he was relaying information. I have something called Mast Cell Activation Syndrome which means I have allergic reactions to all sort of things and don't usually do well in public places around perfumes and laundry detergents, etc so he takes her in though I am the one that takes care of her here at home.. The vet said it would take about a week to get the blood work back. The vet called and left my husband a voice mail on 1/7 and said her BG was high on the test but that it could just be stress related and that her liver enzymes were a little elevated and that they want to schedule her for the frustiome test and potentially start insulin and then bring her back in have her stay for in the office for blood sugar curves. We asked about switching food because she was on dry kibble and the vet said there weren't any good foods for diabetes on the market but that we could get prescription food for her from them but they couldn't provide my husband with a list of ingredients during the visits so we could make sure it is something that I won't react to smelling in the house or if she licks me.

Meiwei - HATES going in the carrier or the car. And she's terrified of dogs and majorly aggressive around other cats plus she doesn't eat well when she's stressed. We've moved a couple times with her and it always takes at least two day after a move for her to eat anything and a full week for her to start acting more like herself. All I could get her to eat the two days after the vet visit was a few bites of tuna each day. I am afraid that if she goes for the BG curves she won't eat at all for them while she's there and that the number will be way off due to stress. Plus we can't decide weather to stay with this vet or not. She was talking about several visits every other week until we get things under control and then monthly visits for monitoring. My husband's works mostly out of town so logistically there is no way for us to even make that work if we wanted too and I don't think it's the best course of action for Meiwei from a stress stand point.

While waiting for the vet to call with results I started reading and researching and found this board. In the last two weeks I have switched Meiwei 100% low carb wet food and found a freeze dry chicken treat she likes, gotten her use to being weighed daily, order supplies for at home blood testing, and UA, and done two successful BG test (plus several failed attempts) and treated with some homeopathics.

Recent Health Summary

7/20/2024 - 1 Year non-adjudicative Rabies Vacc. weight 13.0lb @vaccine clinic

11/1 - Vet visit for polydyspia and polyuria. weight 12.3lbs (vet scale), suspected diabetes, dehydrated, no UA, blood panel drawn

11/2 and 11/3 will only eat a few bits of tuna each day. still drinking and peeing too much.

11/3 - start homepathic remedy Carc 200c

11/7 - Vet calls and leaves VM says BG elevated but gives no number. Slightly elevated liver enzymes.
Wet litter for 11/5 & 11/6. 4.2 lbs

11/8 - start home monitoring weight, wet litter weight from previous 24hr, daytime box visits.
weight 11.8lb, wet litter for previous day 2.1lb 6+ box visits, Change to wet food left dry food out overnight.

11/9 - weight 12.0lb, wet litter 1.2lbs, 4+ box visits, LC wet food only (6 oz left out free feed)

11/10 - weight 12.0lb wet litter 0.8lb, 4 visits, LC wet food only (3oz twice a day left out free feed, not eating about 1.5 oz)

11/11 - weight 11.8. wet litter 0.8lbs, 4 visits, LC wet food only (3 oz twice a day left out free feed not eating (1.5oz)

11/12 - weight 11.8, wet litter 0.4lb, 3 visits, LC wet (3 oz twice a day left out free feed not eating (1.5oz)

11/13 - weight 12.0, wet litter 0.8lbs 4 visits LC wet (3 oz twice a day left out free feed not eating (1.5oz)

11/14 - weight 12.0, wet litter 0.6lbs, 3 visits, LC wet (3 oz twice a day left out free feed not eating (1.5oz)

11/15 - weight 12.0, wet litter 0.4lbs, 2 visits, LC wet . BG 3:05pm 177, 6:05 PM 258 (had not eat since before 3pm).

11/16 - weight 12.0, wet litter 1.0lb, 5 visits (went right after I scooped yesterday morning), LC wet (1oz put 9:30am, 1:00pm 6:30pm (3.0oz total none left in AM from previous night), NO BG ,all attempts unsuccessful in AM, Kitty very stressed and withdrawn until 4pm order lancing pen.

11/17 - weight 11.8 , wet litter 0.6, 3 visits, LC Wet (1oz 9:30, 1pm, 6:30pm, 9:30 (1.25 oz left for over night (3.25 oz total none left in AM), did not BG test this AM since it seemed to stress her out yesterday and the free sticking isn't working well. Lantus pen delivers today.

Summary: polyuria and polydyspia resolved. 2-4 visits a day (wet litter holding between .4 - .8lb for 24hrs)
100% wet food Wellness Complete Heath Pate dialing in amount needs more than 3oz but less than 4oz/ put down fresh 4 times a day but allowed to free feed if still available. Meiwei is much more herself, still has sometimes that seem a little off for about 1/2 day but rebounds the next day well.

I will be calling the vet myself tomorrow to update and discuss next steps and get a feel for staying with them or looking elsewhere.

Questions: How many times a day do I need to be testing for an at home curve to confirm diagnosis if I want to skip the stress of the frustiome test? (Hubby is out of town every week day for the next several weeks). At what intervals do I need BG numbers to establish dosing for insulin? Can I set up a spreadsheet for the forum if we aren't using insulin yet?
 
Welcome to FDMB!!

You have been doing a great job for being so early in the process of managing Meiwei's diabetes. Just a word of caution. I did not see anything on line about Carc 200c as a homeopathic option for diabetes. It looks like there's limited research on its use for the treatment of cancer in mice.

As you correctly surmised, the vet is incorrect. A change of diet can be very helpful. You want to be feeding your cat a preferably canned food diet that is low in carbohydrates. We consider low carb as under 10% although most members feed their cat a food that's in the neighborhood of 5% carb. I'm going to provide 2 links. You might want to share the link on feline nutrition with your vet. The site is authored by a vet. The other link is to a chart from her website that lists most of the canned foods available in the US along with nutritional information including the carb amount. Also, the "prescription" foods are not a great option. The dry foods are wildly high in carbs and the ingredients in both the dry and canned varieties are not wonderful. Some of the canned prescription foods are also high in carbs. You will do a lot better with nonprescription foods that are low in carbs. There are lots of options.

A curve is typically a test that's done over a 12-hour period and you test every 2 hours. It's also possible to do a curve over 18 hours and you test every 3-hours. Most people do a 12-hour curve. We encourage caregivers to get comfortable with home testing so you can do a curve at home but more to the point, home testing is the best way to keep your kitty safe. You also don't have to pay the vet a ridiculous amount to board your cat for a day and do the testing. Most vets assume that you won't want to go to the trouble of testing your cat or they will tell you it will ruin your relationship with your cat. We've not found that to be the case -- especially since you've solved the issue of treats!!

The decision about the dose of insulin initially depends on both what insulin your vet prescribes and what dosing method you opt for. We strongly support following the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn regarding insulin choice. They recommend either Lantus/glargine or Prozinc for treating feline diabetes. Many vets recommend Vetsulin since it's used for both dogs and cats. It's not a good insulin for cats -- it's harsh and does not have sufficient duration to last 12-hours given a cat's fast metabolism. Lantus/glargine is now in generic form and is available at any human pharmacy. You can also find discount coupons. Prozinc is a pet-specific insulin and available only through a vet or a company like Chewy. With most insulin, we suggest starting at a dose of 0.5 units. Again, how this will work depends on which insulin you're using and the dosing method you opt for. I strongly suspect your vet won't tell you all of this. In most cases, they expect you to do exactly what they tell you.

From the test information that you provided, it tentatively looks like Meiwei is diabetic. We consider normal blood glucose range as 50 - 120.

If you want to get started, we encourage members to get a spreadsheet set up and to include a signature. The instructions for both are in this helping us to help you post. Please let us know how we can help.
 
Thank you for the reply! I should have noted that I studied homeopathy for several years and picked Carc under the advisement of a homeopath to clear any adverse effects from the rabies vaccine since Meiwei has had zero health issues until after the vaccine and it did seem to help but we only used it for about a week. The goal wasn't to find something to have her on full time but rather to find a remedy that would perk up her vital energy while also addressing the other commodities.

Dr. Lisa's website was a godsend. I found it on here in my initial research. I used that to find a wet food for Meiwei that also doesn't have any ingredients that I am fume reactive to. She's on Wellness Complete Health Chicken and Herring Pate (6% carbs) and Chicken Pate (4% carbs). She will also eat the turkey (4%) and turkey and salmon (5%) if I add freeze dried chicken on top but she really prefers the chicken and herring so she gets 3oz of it and 1/2 - 1 oz of the chicken for overnight.

If I am not doing insulin yet should I just put 0 in that column and then count +1 from what will be our shot time when we start? It will likely be 9:30am as that's when Meiwei eats breakfast when she gets up with my daughter.

Does the AMPS and PMPS need to be fasted for at least a couple hrs? . She's a grazer, always has been so she doesn't finish every thing I put down 4 times a day right away and goes back for more as she wants. the last two days she has been finishing her overnight food at 4:30am ish and trying to wake the girls up for more at 6:45 (she used to always eat dry kibble at that time and go back to sleep) but I am not free to feed her until 9:30am to give more wet food I am still trying to figure out how much to leave out for her from 9:30pm until 9:30am. I might transition to a timed feeder for overnight. She seems to want to eat at 9:30pm , 4:30am and 6:30am. She's is definitely a little overweight for her petite frame. She should be between 9-10lbs.

I think we will shoot for the 12hr curve every 2 hours to start with. We are still trying to get used to the BG sticks. Hopefully by the end of the week we can be in a good grove with it. I will try to get some number the rest of today and setup the SS today or tomorrow with what I have.

Thanks for the insulin info. I will need to probably advocate for something that can be shipped to us. with my hubby working mostly out of town and me being homebound going to the pharmacy or vet for pick up consistently will be challenging.
 
3 sticks with the lancing pen at 5:00pm and couldn't get enough blood for a test. Meiwei is a champ but mama is a newbie. I will try again when my little guys are in bed and it is quieter. I am trying to bribe her with treats during but she's so obsessed with the treats that she moves around like crazy even when my 12 yo is the one giving the treats and I am trying to poke. I added my spreadsheet to my signature and think I have it right.
 
Finally got a successful BG tonight. This would be our PSPM time but she had eaten a few bites right before (not monitoring that since we aren't on insulin yet) Stick was way better with my 4 and 5 year old not in the space. BG 202. Added to the spread sheet. Tomorrow I will try to get a number before she eats first thing in the morning and see how the day goes to get a numbers every 2-3hrs and call the vet. Thanks for fielding all the newbie questions.
 
Withholding food for 2 hours before the shot is something we suggest to new people. You don't want to test at shot time (always test before the shot) and have a BG number that is influenced by food and potentially not safe to shoot. Over time and with more data, you will learn how much your cat's numbers go up with food.

Is the vet sending you the Lantus? In future, you will want to buy from a human pharmacy as it'll most likely be a lot cheaper. Your vet will need to write a prescription for the Lantus. A lot of pharmacies these days do home delivery, at least in Canada, so that could be an option for you. Or pick a grocery store that does home delivery and has a pharmacy. If you are getting a pack of pens from a pharmacy, it could last a very long time, depending on your cat's insulin dose.

If you got that blood test right after she ate, and it was less than 15 minutes after eating, it is probably a true reading. Food takes 20-30 minutes to go from the mouth to sugar in the blood.

What gauge needles on the lancets? We suggest starting with a larger one, such as a 26. Then go to the smaller ones once their ears get used to bleeding.
 
we got the stick within probably 15 minutes of eating. we are using a 28 gauge needle. I have to have the lancing pen at 5 to get her to give enough blood. But she's already bleeding easier a few days in so that might get better over time. I hadn't thought about the fact that human pharmacies now do delivery. I will look into what my options are here locally. We get delivery or curbside for almost everything. I do have some friends at church that are on call to help with emergency that would be willing to do pickups or heaven forbid ER runs if needed. We have 6 kids so we always have to contingencies planned. Calling the vet later this morning to discuss type of insulin.

How long can insulin last in the fridge before it expiries? I've been trying to figure out at base budget if she's on 1 unit/twice a day or 2 unit twice day. but I can't quite figure out how the dosing works with the different kinds.
 
Just to clarify (because I don’t think I’m the only one confused)—as of now you are not starting insulin yet, correct? On one of your post you said you were ordering a Lantus pen but I believe you meant to say you were ordering a LANCING pen (in other words a device to hold the lancets)

and that so far she’s had a test at the vet that was compromised by stress, may get a fructosamine test next, and you are doing home testing (no insulin) to get an idea if she actually needs insulin
Is this all correct?

(I ask because I think there may be confusion)
 
Yes Colleen that is correct. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't able to get the pre breakfast number this morning. I think I am going to have to add a small 6:30am snack so she isn't as hangry at test time. She won't cooperate at all if she's hungry.
 
Different insulins and packages come in different sizes with different amounts of insulin. Lantus and it's generics come in a 10mL vial or a package of 5 3mL pens. Some people buy 1 pen at a time. That 10mL vial holds 1000 units, and each 3 mL pen holds 300 units. If stored properly, the insulin is good until the expiry date on the package. You do have to allow for some slop when you fill the syringe. We use syringes instead of the pen needle mechanism for many reasons, mostly that you can't get small enough doses with the pens which are designed for humans. I had a pen last 90 days with Neko before I ran out. It is highly depend on dose. Her's varied over timme, sometimes the pen lasted 2 weeks. There are generic Lantus now that are much cheaper. I'm not as familiar with the Prozinc answer.
 
Just got off the phone with the vet. She seems nice and compassionate but said that human meters don't work for testing BG on animals so my numbers don't give us anymore information. I disagree but wasn't surprised to hear that perspective. They had Meiwei BG at 425 at the time of her visit 11-1 (before any diet change) Since Meiwei is so stressed with the car and vet visit the vet said we could do the frutisome test for confirmation and use that information to determine the starting dosing level instead of the in hospital curve. I forgot to ask which insulin we would start on if the test did come back high. My husband is out of town for the next two weeks but all of Meiwei"s clinical signs have resolved with the diet change so she felt safe waiting to schedule the frutisome test the first week of Dec. That would give us at least a full 3 weeks plus a few days on the new wet LC food. So hopefully it would be accurate to the wet food diet. It will be $225 for that visit and test. I am not sure how to proceed because if the vet doesn't believe that I can test on my meter than I don't know how will we monitor her dosing and response. I am used to working independently from a doctor's recommendation so I could go through with the frutisome to confirm and get the insulin prescription and work on educating the vet over time but it would be nice to have a vet that saw the value in home testing.

Our one successful test today at 2:45pm showed 200. Will work to get more test as I can.
 
Your vet is wrong. When I started on FDMB, no one, not even the vets, used pet meters, cause they were just being developed. Our dosing methods were developed back in the day before pet meters even existed, and use the values from human meters. Including the dosing method that has been published in a peer reviewed veterinary journal. My vet's favourite meter was the OneTouch cause she like how close it was to lab values. We used to compare notes on best places to buy cheap test strips. Not long after, the company making the AT pet meters started heavily marketing them to vets.

Go ahead and use the human meter. The AT test strips are very expensive and we'd rather you test more with cheap test strips. We here all understand what the human meter test values mean in a cat.

As long as the vet gets you a prescription for the insulin, we can help you with the starting dose. You don't need another fructosamine. You are right that her numbers at the vet could be artificially high due to stress - not uncommon. Save your money for more test strips.

Good job getting the periodic testing. It's good to have that skill before you start insulin.
 
Added what would be our PMPS number to last night and was able to get a number for AMPS time this morning too. Meiwei is 11.8lbs and initially wasn't eating all of the 4oz I put down several times a day when we switched to wet food so I started putting out a little less and more often to make sure it was fresh to try and help with wasting food. I had calculated her getting between 150-175 calories with food and treats at stick times. Just in the last 2.5 days she been acting hungrier. Eating everything I put down within about an hour of putting it down and waking the girls up so I upped her amount of canned food. She's been getting less treats since we've been doing better with stick (don't have to bribe her with food, just rewarding after now) so the calories the last two days are still in the 170 range I asked the vet how much she should be eating calorie wise to maybe slowly drop a little weight. She's really pettily framed. They came back this morning with 240 calories. Meiwei was bouncing between 12.0 - 11.8 for the last 11 days while changing food.

Does 240 calories seem high? It seemed high to me based on what I read on Dr. Lisa's site. But Meiwei is acting hungry now in a way she wasn't the first week. Should I aim for like 200 calories/day and monitor her weight and see. She hasn't been super active during the diet change but she isn't a super active kitty overall. I know diet and calories and timing of feeding all effect BG so I want to try to find was optimal for her since ECID.
 
My Neko, who was around 14-14.5 lbs, maintained her weight on about 225 calories per day. She had some Maine Coon in her, vet was happy with her weight. Not all cats have the same metabolism, some are more active than others. I got a baby scale and weighed Neko every week or two, to make sure her weight was trending the way I wanted it to. Diabetic cats will think they need more food, but you don't want to over feed them. This post has a good explanation:
 
Does too much blood on the test strip effect the results? I really wanted to get an AMPS (not shooting yet, just creating the routine and looking for patterns pre - medicating) so that took several tries in both ears. when we finally got the sweet spot the drop was huge. My daughter helps with testing so she's the one that brings the meter up to catch the drop while I milk Meiwei's ear, if needed and sort of keep her head still. This time we flooded the test strip so much that there was blood on the back side. This is also our highest number yet. I've had to to do multiple sticks on other test but those have been much quicker. This was like a 10 minute ordeal with Meiwei get up in protest after the first 3 missed attempts.
 
Today was such a frustrating day trying to get BG #'s. I was excited to finally get a AMPS time number because the mornings before eating have been impossible around our routine I was shocked to see it so high and wanted to get more numbers in the AM to see what was happening because Meiwei didn't seem to feel as good as she had other days but we had way more failed attempts then successful.

She seemed really irritated by the noise and sound from my 4 & 5 year old today but she also wanted to be with us. She has been through 2 births and 4 toddlerhoods with us and she's always been so unphased by our choas. I nicknamed her "nurse kitty" because every time anyone would cry in the house she'd calmly come over and check it out and try to reassure whatever baby or kid it was. That was not the kitty I saw today and I don't know how I will balance her needs with all the other needs in the house if this is our new normal.

I Finally got one more stick in the early evening and it was not nearly as high. I decided to stay up and try to get 11pm number since I have no night time numbers which means keeping my 3 girls up too because the cat goes to bed with them. They didn't mind the movie night with mama but the 11pm stick was unsuccessful and Meiwei was very suspicious and irritated. She knows it was out of routine. We aren't even in the realm of needing to know the numbers because life and death dosing depends on it and today it just felt like too much and not fair to anyone involved.

I am not even a cat person. I just love this cat. She's been unwavering with us through so much that I can't imagine not being able to figure out a way to make this work but my husband is mostly skeptical about treating. He's not a cruel man. He just grew up with pets that didn't get a lot of vet care and we've had such a hard 4 years with major health crisis for the humans in the family that its a lot to process. He's out of town this whole week so I've been trying to work on getting some routines established that will help when treatment time comes so he doesn't have to see the stress the transition and the only obstacle to overcome is the new financial burden. I am glad he wasn't here to see today. Here's hoping tomorrow is better and we find our stride sooner rather than later.
 
I'm sorry the tests were so hard today. :bighug:. Are you giving her treats after each test, whether or not it is successful?
 
Yes we are and on really smooth sticks she gets up and follows me to the kitchen afterwards and sits so she is making the connection I think. I can't bring the treats to where we test because she gets so fixated on them that she won't let me touch her ears at all. The frustration was mostly in how many times I missed the sweet spot or seemingly missed altogether. Then by the end of the day she was anticipating what was happening and couldn't be persuaded even with treats. It's was oddly an off day for the whole house. My 12 year had a headache all day and that's Meiwei's girl so I am sure that played into it. Those two are best friends and Meiwei has always known when in one in the family is sick. She spent an entire week sleeping in the bed with hubby during a particularly bad bout of the flu. And I knew I was pregnant with baby number 6 not from a test but because Meiwei started to come and lay on my chest anytime I sat down something she's done in every pregnancy since we adopted her.
 
Bridgette77 said:
Just got off the phone with the vet. She seems nice and compassionate but said that human meters don't work for testing BG on animals so my numbers don't give us anymore information. I disagree but wasn't surprised to hear that perspective. They had Meiwei BG at 425 at the time of her visit 11-1 (before any diet change) Since Meiwei is so stressed with the car and vet visit the vet said we could do the frutisome test for confirmation and use that information to determine the starting dosing level instead of the in hospital curve. I forgot to ask which insulin we would start on if the test did come back high. My husband is out of town for the next two weeks but all of Meiwei"s clinical signs have resolved with the diet change so she felt safe waiting to schedule the frutisome test the first week of Dec. That would give us at least a full 3 weeks plus a few days on the new wet LC food. So hopefully it would be accurate to the wet food diet. It will be $225 for that visit and test. I am not sure how to proceed because if the vet doesn't believe that I can test on my meter than I don't know how will we monitor her dosing and response. I am used to working independently from a doctor's recommendation so I could go through with the frutisome to confirm and get the insulin prescription and work on educating the vet over time but it would be nice to have a vet that saw the value in home testing.

Our one successful test today at 2:45pm showed 200. Will work to get more test as I can.
Click to expand...
One solution I’ve seen some use is get a pet meter to use for curves for the vet or double checking low numbers on a human meter (in a non anemic cat the human meter will give a value lower than an actual lab number or the pet meter which will be closer to a true lab value) then use the human meter for most home monitoring. On the positive the Alpha Trak 3 uses less blood than a human meter and has a much longer time before it times out/shuts off. Which is handy because cats. :rolleyes:
 
Bridgette77 said:
Does too much blood on the test strip effect the results?
Click to expand...
It depends on the meter and how much and where—your meter should have a phone number and/or email for tech support so you might ask them. For instance Precision Xtra gave me conflicting answers to a similar question but finally settled on “no” but if it was taking a long time so blood was coagulating then “maybe”. AT3 the answer was “ yes if you cover the small vent on the top but otherwise no” …unless with all the flailing you contaminate the strip touching it to cat’s fur in an area not cleaned, or there’s such a struggle you caused stress hyperglycemia (but couldn’t say how much struggle that would be)
There’s also the possibility of a bad strip

any time a reading seems off repeat with a second test. If tests don’t agree do a third test and also a control solution test.
 
SmallestSparrow said:
It depends on the meter and how much and where—your meter should have a phone number and/or email for tech support so you might ask them. For instance Precision Xtra gave me conflicting answers to a similar question but finally settled on “no” but if it was taking a long time so blood was coagulating then “maybe”. AT3 the answer was “ yes if you cover the small vent on the top but otherwise no” …unless with all the flailing you contaminate the strip touching it to cat’s fur in an area not cleaned, or there’s such a struggle you caused stress hyperglycemia (but couldn’t say how much struggle that would be)
There’s also the possibility of a bad strip

any time a reading seems off repeat with a second test. If tests don’t agree do a third test and also a control solution test.
Click to expand...

thanks for this feedback. I do think we may have tried getting blood a stick that didn't bleed so touched the fur and then flooded the same strip when we finally did get it from a very very worked. Kitty. I can't so the sticks alone so my 12 year old is the one that brings the meter up to catch the sample. She's doing great but still learning all the specifics

SmallestSparrow said:
One solution I’ve seen some use is get a pet meter to use for curves for the vet or double checking low numbers on a human meter (in a non anemic cat the human meter will give a value lower than an actual lab number or the pet meter which will be closer to a true lab value) then use the human meter for most home monitoring. On the positive the Alpha Trak 3 uses less blood than a human meter and has a much longer time before it times out/shuts off. Which is handy because cats. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

This is the solution I am leaning toward. Skip the frutrosome and use that money to buy the alpha's track and perform a curve for the vet Our cat is really stress sensitive and the last time she came back from the vet smelling like fragrance which put me in a mini MCAS flare So while her going in for the frutrosome test rules out the stress issue it doesn't solve my exposure issues and it gets expensive quickly as the only monitoring strategy. I would still use my cheaper meter and strips for regular home testing. We took two days off from pokes because we all need a break and she doesn't have any clinically concerning signs. In fact if anything the little reprieve actually seemed to lower her stress here. She's been very social relaxed and playful the last two days.
 
Bridgette77 said:
that money to buy the alpha's track and perform a curve for the vet
Click to expand...
That sounds like a good idea. I will warn you the AT strips are insanely expensive but if you’re just using them for a curve for the vet or an occasional double check of a low human meter it’s not too bad. When you buy the meter it comes as a starter kit that includes some lancets and a lancing device, control test solution and a vial of 50 strips. The control solution is also insanely expensive—don’t buy additional bottles of it. My advice would be if you eventually run out of strips or test solution, order a new starter kit. The kit is something like $15 more than buying a vial of strips and a bottle of test solution and then you’ve got a spare meter.

what tech support explained to me about not touching the fur was two issues: 1. You don’t want to touch the non sterile strip against an open would —although I doubt it’s a big infection risk and 2. Kitty may have gotten food on her fur, esp in a house with kids who might pet her with a hand that held candy etc, and that might affect the strip.
If i were a betting woman, however, it sounds like some of those tests may have been very stressful to her (it happens). I read a study on stress hyperglycemia in cats and the way they induced it was spray the test subject cats with water for several minutes. While I know cats hate that I think getting poked repeatedly by a stressed human ( they can pick up on that) is pretty stressful also. With time as your confidence improves and she realizes it’s a brief process not the end of the world she’ll probably get more relaxed about it
 
SmallestSparrow said:
That sounds like a good idea. I will warn you the AT strips are insanely expensive but if you’re just using them for a curve for the vet or an occasional double check of a low human meter it’s not too bad. When you buy the meter it comes as a starter kit that includes some lancets and a lancing device, control test solution and a vial of 50 strips. The control solution is also insanely expensive—don’t buy additional bottles of it. My advice would be if you eventually run out of strips or test solution, order a new starter kit. The kit is something like $15 more than buying a vial of strips and a bottle of test solution and then you’ve got a spare meter.

what tech support explained to me about not touching the fur was two issues: 1. You don’t want to touch the non sterile strip against an open would —although I doubt it’s a big infection risk and 2. Kitty may have gotten food on her fur, esp in a house with kids who might pet her with a hand that held candy etc, and that might affect the strip.
If i were a betting woman, however, it sounds like some of those tests may have been very stressful to her (it happens). I read a study on stress hyperglycemia in cats and the way they induced it was spray the test subject cats with water for several minutes. While I know cats hate that I think getting poked repeatedly by a stressed human ( they can pick up on that) is pretty stressful also. With time as your confidence improves and she realizes it’s a brief process not the end of the world she’ll probably get more relaxed about it
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I read those same studies so I wonder if even our home test v right now are a bit affected by stress. That one test in particular was the only one I was super persistent with, following her to another location after clear protest when she was very ready for breakfast. I know for sure that vet curves would be wildly affected especially since she won't eat.
 
Bridgette77 said:
I read those same studies so I wonder if even our home test v right now are a bit affected by stress. That one test in particular was the only one I was super persistent with, following her to another location after clear protest when she was very ready for breakfast. I know for sure that vet curves would be wildly affected especially since she won't eat.
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I also wonder how less stressful it is at home. Definitely some bc they didn’t have a car ride, aren’t tapped in a cage with other animals around etc. but I have to believe some chasing kitty down the hall and dragging to testing spot also adds to things. They do get more chill and we do get more confident so by the time you do an official curve I think it will be ok
 
If you have to chase kitty, give her a treat and let her be by herself by 5 minutes. Then try the poke again. Eventually she will associate treats with pokes. Once Neko did, she purred through the test, in anticipation of what was coming next - the treat!

Not all cats need to have a testing spot either. I did initially cause the light was better there, but as I got better I got so I could test her in her bed without bothering her much.

Vet stress is odd. Neko often went lower at the vet (though her blood pressure went higher). I had another non diabetic who was almost 200 points higher at the vet.
 
We haven't posted in a month while we weighed our options and took a break from testing while trying to get Meiwei less stressed about the idea of it. We been getting her acclimated to the testing spot and equipment. In that month we've been sticking with her wet food diet, watching for any shifts in urinating and drinking and just general behavior. She's been so playful and alert. Her coat looks great and her litter box habits have seemed to regulated even more with just 1 or 2 visits a day with golf ball sized clumps. Instead of 3-4 times a day with palm sized, or the 6-8 times a day with huge clumps that she was showing before switching from dry kibble. My girls have been having a play session with her each night and she's slowly been losing weight. I got a baby scale so I could really accurately monitor it and it's been right at 1-1.5% a week.

Then this morning she threw up. Which surprised me a lot because I was just telling my husband how much improvement we've seen even in the last week with her energy levels and overall demeanor. She seems 5 years younger although she had already shown so much improvement within the first two weeks of switching food. So when she threw up I finally decided to test. Even though I knew she would probably be stressed by it because she still smacks at me when I touch her ears. I had to know if we'd run out of time and see if it her number was sky high. Her number was 63 on my Relion Meter.

She's not on insulin of any kind and we never did the frutrosome to confirm though you can see the numbers we were getting last month.. Just diet change and more exercise. If her number is 63 that means its not DKA right? Is there any reason for me to try and get urine sample from her to test for ketones? She eagerly ate the freeze dried chicken we gave her during testing and her appetite seems normal. She has been bright, alerted, affectionate and playful all morning. Obviously, there are other things that could trigger the vomiting so I will keep a super close eye on her. Just trying to rule out the most obvious things given her recent history.
 
That 63 is very good news. Two weeks without insulin and in normal numbers means diabetic remission. :D Just remember that once a diabetic, always a diabetic, she is just diet controlled. Stick to low carb food, no steroids unless absolutely necessary, and keep up regular vet checks, especially if something seems off. Get the vet to also check hr mouth, needing a dental is one of the main reasons cats fall out of remission,
 
I might grab a few more test over the next few days to be sure it's not a one off. She's eaten 3 times since vomiting and hasn't thrown up again so who knows what precipitated that. They checked her teeth thoroughly in Oct but I will keep a close eye on them.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
That 63 is very good news. Two weeks without insulin and in normal numbers means diabetic remission. :D Just remember that once a diabetic, always a diabetic, she is just diet controlled. Stick to low carb food, no steroids unless absolutely necessary, and keep up regular vet checks, especially if something seems off. Get the vet to also check hr mouth, needing a dental is one of the main reasons cats fall out of remission,
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If I recall correctly this cat was never on insulin. She had an elevated glucose felt to be stress related by the vet, and rather than do a fructosamine they opted to occasionally test the BG and change the diet. So don’t know if a diagnosis of diabetes was made (or is accurate) but it can’t hurt to treat her as such I suppose. The OP can correct me if I’m wrong but immoretttnsure she said many times the cat wasn’t on insulin and the vet called it stress related elevation
 
Bridgette77 said:
her number is 63 that means its not DKA right? Is there any reason for me to try and get urine sample from her to test for ketones?
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Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure your vet said your cat didn’t have diabetes, and you didn’t do a fructosamine, and your cat has never been on insulin or any oral diabetes medications right?

and you never really did much at home testing because you were working up to it, and were primarily changing her diet and monitoring her for urine increase which you didn’t see, correct?

so she threw up and her glucose was normal—I would explore other causes of vomiting because she doesn’t sound like she was ever diagnosed or treated for diabetes and so that plus a normal glucose points away from DKA.
 
That's mostly correct. The vet was heavily leaning diabetes because she tested at 425 when we brought her in for excessive urination and thirst. In addition to her being dehydrated at that visit and having loss some weight. They wanted us to bring her in for an in office curve to determine dosing but I was concerned she wouldn't eat and would be very stressed and scew the numbers. The vet wouldn't take our human meter numbers for confirmation or dosing so she wanted us to come in to do a fructosamime. I wanted to make sure we had been on the new diet for at least 3 weeks before we did the fructosamime so we haven't done it yet. No insulin or medication of any kind.

What home testing we did is in my spreadsheet. Not a lot of data but some evidence that the numbers were elevated. Glad to know DKA is ruled out.
 
The spreadsheet shows at least 6 days of elevated BG values. That is more than just stress from a vet visit. Some people will do a food trial to see if they can get the cat into normal numbers with just that. Depending on what the next tests show, it's likely this is what has happened.
 
SmallestSparrow said:
But important to find the cause if she keeps having problems. Good luck
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I am watching for anymore shifts or symptoms. She didn't throw again yesterday.

Wendy&Neko said:
The spreadsheet shows at least 6 days of elevated BG values. That is more than just stress from a vet visit. Some people will do a food trial to see if they can get the cat into normal numbers with just that. Depending on what the next tests show, it's likely this is what has happened.
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Last night's number at what would have been PMPS was 60.

How often should I spot check going forward. A couple numbers from different times a day once or twice a month?
 
Try testing once a week for a month, then monthly after that. If anything looks off at all, then test more frequently. Good luck.
 
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