New Member 2/22-Some general questions

[Merlin's Momma]

Hi there, I'm really glad to find this forum for help and support for my buddy Merlin who was diagnosed earlier this month and prescribed 1.5 units of Prozinc 2x a day. To give some background, Merlin's a 10 and a half year old long haired black cat who is one of the most affectionate kitties I've ever had. Seriously, he follows me everywhere and just wants to cuddle 24/7. On top of the diabetes, he also had some rotting teeth and had to get a few tooth extractions about a week ago. He has a few more days left on antibiotics, but he's recovering really well from the procedure, and is really playful and cuddly again after a couple of days of hiding under the bed.
Focusing on the diabetes, what made me took him to the vet was noticing him drinking water like crazy and a noticeable weight loss over the last few months, even though he was continuing to eat the same amount of food I've been feeding him for the last 9 years. The vet said he was underweight, but with him now being treated he should be able to gain some more weight.
1. How long should it take for him to bulk up? He's a pretty boney boy right now, and eating really good, I just want to make sure I'm keeping an eye on that.
2. The vet prescribed us Prozinc, but reading here I see there's all these other types of insulin. How come vets prescribe different insulins to different cats? Are there different benefits/risks of different types? How do you know if your cat is on the right one?
I still have a lot to learn; reading this forum is helpful but also like learning a different language as a lot of these terms are completely new to me as someone who's never dealt with them before. Thank you for all your help though, I'm just thankful we can make Merlin a healthy boy again.

 

[Juls and Billy]

Hello and welcome to the group! You are in the right place to learn how to best help Merlin. To start, I really recommend reading the sticky posts at the top of the Health Links/ FAQs section of the forum. It will teach you tons about feline diabetes.

Are you home testing Merlin's blood glucose levels (BGL)? Few vets seem to recommend it, but I can't stress enough how important home testing is to a cat getting insulin. Without home testing, I would have lost my sweet Billy on day 5, because the vet prescribed 2 units of insulin, and on the evening of day 5, Billy only had a BGL of 52. 2 units of insulin would have sent him straight into a dangerous hypo event. Humans test before every shot to make sure their BGL is high enough for the insulin, cats should be tested too. You don't even need a pet meter, most members here use inexpensive human meters like WalMart's ReliOn Premiere.

Now, to your questions.

1- Sugar cats often don't gain weight until their BGLs get regulated, but don't worry. Once his BGL starts to come down, he'll feel better, and once he's better regulated, he can start to gain some weight back. When their BGLs are high, a cat's body can't utilize the food properly, so a lot of the calories end up in the litter box. What food are you feeding? Vet's often put sugar cats on a prescription dry food high in carbs, but studies show they do better and have a better chance at remission on a canned, high protein, low carb diet. There's an awesome food list here.

2- ProZinc is a great insulin for cats. My Billy was on ProZinc and is now in remission. Lantus is also a great insulin for cats. Some vets prescribe short acting insulins, like cannisulin and vetsulin, but cats don't do nearly as well on them.

Now, if I haven't already thrown too much information at you, I'd like you to look at my signature and see the information I have in it. Now click on the link there called "Billy's Spreadsheet" and you can see all his blood glucose readings and his journey to remission. Now, not all cats achieve remission, but many do with proper treatment, and all sugar cats can have long happy lives. The information in my signature and the spreadsheet are what helped experienced member here advise me on Billy's treatment and dosage. I couldn't have gotten Bill into remission without that help. When you have time, you can learn how to set this up for Merlin at this link: New? How you can help us help you!

You are in a great place to learn all about giving Merlin the best care you can.

 

[Deb & Wink]

1. How long should it take for him to bulk up? He's a pretty boney boy right now, and eating really good, I just want to make sure I'm keeping an eye on that.

It can take some time. Depends on how well the diabetes is controlled, on how much weight he lost, what his ideal weight is. No firm answer on that one from us. ECID Every Cat Is Different.

Until a cat gets regulated, and then reaches more normal BG (blood glucose) levels, they can not process all the food they are eating properly. Diabetic cats can need up to twice as much food as normal. How much is Merlin eating a day?

PLEASE, DO NOT SWITCH THE DIET TO A LOW CARB FOOD UNTIL YOU ARE HOME TESTING. Switching to a low carb food can drop the blood glucose levels dramatically. 100 basis points or more.

What food is Merlin eating now? Wet or dry? Specific brand?

2. The vet prescribed us Prozinc, but reading here I see there's all these other types of insulin. How come vets prescribe different insulins to different cats? Are there different benefits/risks of different types?

Sometimes what country you live in determines what insulins are prescribed first. Sometimes, it depends on the insulins your vet is familiar with, as to which insulin will be prescribed. A more up to date vet in the USA, will prescribe Prozinc, Lantus or Levimer for a cat.

(Caninsulin/Vetsulin is better for dogs, but vets in the UK still need to follow the rules in that country and prescribe Caninsulin first.) Caninsulin often only lasts 8-10 hours (duration) in cats. NPH is not a good insulin for cats, Steep fast drops, higher risk of hypoclycemia, very short duration of 6-8 hours. But some vets still prescribe it. The one thing it has going for it is it's cheap. It's better than no insulin, if it's all you can afford. But you may need to dose NPH insulins 3 times a day, and not many peoples work/life schedules allow for that.

How do you know if your cat is on the right one?

By seeing how well your cat does on that particular insulin. Fewer symptoms of diabetes. Improvements in the amount of water your cat is drinking (less is good), the amount of urine produced (pee puddles reducing in size from lakes to puddles to more normal size clumps) , playing again, purring, preening or grooming themselves. Appetite slowing down and cat regaining lost weight. Improved condition of fur. Resolution of the diabetic neuropathy. Good duration, BG's more in control for most of the 12 hour dosing cycle.

By testing to find onset, nadir, duration of the insulin your cat is on. With home monitoring.
By doing blood glucose "curves". That "curve" is testing the blood glucose every 2 hours, starting with the pre-shot test for a period of 12 hours. Pre-shot test is the test you do before you give your cat insulin. To make sure the blood glucose level is high enough to give your cat insulin in the first place.

Or repeat fructosamine tests at the vet and/or curves done at the vet.
Home testing is highly recommended. You can save a lot of money over testing done at the vet, but it does take time to learn how to home test.

If there is anything we have said, or items you need clarification on, please let us know. We do have a glossary.
FDMB Glossary

 

[Deb & Wink]

We have some documents in our Prozinc ISG (Insulin Support Group) forum about using Prozinc for a cat.
These documents are in the process of being rewritten, but that rewrite has not been completed yet.
You may want to read these 2 Prozinc specific documents.

Sticky: NEW TO THE GROUP: THE PROZINC BASICS. PLEASE START HERE.

PROTOCOL FOR PROZINC / PZI

New members always forget to start with the
Announcements & How to use the FDMB forum. Where you will find a good "Sticky" or pinned post at the top of that forum on how to navigate here on the message board. Look in the second post in this link below for that information.
Sticky: HOW-TO USE THE FDMB: The Basics

Hope that helps a bit. We've probably already overwhelmed you with information. Let us know when you want more.

 

[Merlin's Momma]

Thank you both for all your help. Currently he is on a mixture of Friskies Meaty Bits and Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets-DM, both wet food. He gets about 3/4 of a can of each a day. Merlin's never liked dry food much, we really only have it for his brother. He usually just sniffs it and has just a couple of kibble, so I don't really count that. We did blood tests for our other kitty, Morgan and thankfully his results were completely normal, but now starting to read more info I'm wondering if I should get him off dry food as well? Morgan eats both wet and dry and seems to like them both equally. I just ordered some low carb wet food options I found on the database, as well as a BG monitor off Amazon. I feel stupid but the vet never discussed home testing so we've just been giving him insulin for the last 2 weeks. Thank god Merlin's been doing fine, I have some karo syrup just in case. Around what BG reading should I make the switch to low carb food then?

 

[Deb & Wink]

Around what BG reading should I make the switch to low carb food then?

It's not so much the BG reading for the switch to low carb food. But having you learn to home test first.

Which meter did you order?

Would you add some information in your signature for us please? Those little bits of information down beneath our posts are what we call our Signature.

There is more good information is this "Sticky" or pinned post for you.
Sticky: New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

"Make sure your signature is up-to-date.

• On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. (Or you can go to the upper right of the screen, click on your user name and a drop down list appears. Select "Signature" from that drop down list and add the info specific to you and your kitty.) Please.
  • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add any other text, such as
  • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
  • Name of insulin
  • DX: date
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information."

 

[Juls and Billy]

Don't feel stupid! It's a rare vet that suggests home testing, even though it's important. As Deb said, it's not about the BGL level for when to switch to all low carb food. But don't change Merlin's diet further until your home testing. The diet change can lower his BGL further, and you need to be able to see that in case his dose needs to be reduced.

You could totally change Morgan to the same diet. (Merlin and Morgan, awesome!) Honestly, canned food is just healthier for cats. And when you switch Merlin's diet, even a couple pieces of kibble can have a big effect on his BGL, so it's safer for him too. Low carb treats are good too. A lot of members use the freeze dried treats, Like Halo Live-a-littles. (My Billy loves the chicken ones.) And all my cats love bonito flakes. and a big bag is super cheap.