I have had some great advice from this site which put me on the Lantus route after Max being on Caninsulin for 4 months with no success. We started Lantus on Monday and my vet said to do 3 readings on Sunday but I have taken one today (Saturday) and it was 22.5. He had 1u at 7am, very agitated for food which he got and I was unable to test then. Manged to do it an hour later with that result 22.5mmol ( is that around 300's). Also he does seem to notice it more when I give the injection, despite it being a smaller needle than the caninsulin one. Am I expecting too much after only 10 injections (1u x 2 per day).
new lantus user
- Thread starter Sarah58
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Michelle & Jetson
Member Since 2011
Good morning Max's Bean!
Welcome to Lantus Land :smile:
I'm too new here to give advice, but others will be here soon to help.
I know you'll get the answers you need.
Edit: just thought about the cold of the insulin. Sometimes, if I forget to hold the syringe between my fingers to "warm" it a little, my Jetson flinches a little when I give the shot. Maybe that could help a little with Max' reaction to the shot?
Welcome to Lantus Land :smile:
I'm too new here to give advice, but others will be here soon to help.
I know you'll get the answers you need.
Edit: just thought about the cold of the insulin. Sometimes, if I forget to hold the syringe between my fingers to "warm" it a little, my Jetson flinches a little when I give the shot. Maybe that could help a little with Max' reaction to the shot?
Sandy and Black Kitty
Member Since 2009
Good Morning and Welcome!
You came to the right place. You will get answers to any questions you may have.
Testing kitty is very important. It's difficult at first however it will soon become routine. Watch some u tube videos - there are many good ones out there.
Read the informational "Stickies"' toward the top of the forum. They contain important information - basically everything you need to know both now as you start and as you continue on the journey toward regulation.
for starters here is a converter:
http://felinediabetes.com/bg-convert.htm
22.5 = 405.
Here are instructions on setting up a spreadsheet where you record your readings:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207&start=0
The spreadsheet is important. It will help you see patterns and make dosing decisions. Dosing with Lantus is based on nadir (lowest reading of the cycle) rather than pre-shot values.
Diet is important as well. We feed our kitties wet food, generally keeping carbs below 5% .
When was your kitty diagnosed? Any other health issues?
You came to the right place. You will get answers to any questions you may have.
Testing kitty is very important. It's difficult at first however it will soon become routine. Watch some u tube videos - there are many good ones out there.
Read the informational "Stickies"' toward the top of the forum. They contain important information - basically everything you need to know both now as you start and as you continue on the journey toward regulation.
for starters here is a converter:
http://felinediabetes.com/bg-convert.htm
22.5 = 405.
Here are instructions on setting up a spreadsheet where you record your readings:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207&start=0
The spreadsheet is important. It will help you see patterns and make dosing decisions. Dosing with Lantus is based on nadir (lowest reading of the cycle) rather than pre-shot values.
Diet is important as well. We feed our kitties wet food, generally keeping carbs below 5% .
When was your kitty diagnosed? Any other health issues?
Generally, we wait 5 - 7 days after the initial Lantus dose before making a dose adjustment. It takes a little while for the insulin depot (aka "shed") to form. I'd encourage you to take a look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board. They contain a great deal of information about using Lantus, dosing, etc. I'd also encourage you to put together a spreadsheet with your test data. A spreadsheet will help you to see patterns in your cat's blood glucose (BG) numbers and it will allow us to help you with any questions you may have.
As an FYI, we use mg/dL for reporting BG values rather than mmol/L. This is a conversion calculator. Alternatively, the World Template in the Tech Suport forum that has the spreadsheet information will do the conversion automatically (you multiply by 18).
We also suggest that the minimum number of tests that you get are at your pre-shot time and at least one test during each cycle. Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on the pre-shot value. If you are concerned about the numbers being in the 300s at shot time, you don't know how low the numbers have gone during the cycle. Those mid-cycle numbers are very important for your dosing decisions.
As an FYI, we use mg/dL for reporting BG values rather than mmol/L. This is a conversion calculator. Alternatively, the World Template in the Tech Suport forum that has the spreadsheet information will do the conversion automatically (you multiply by 18).
We also suggest that the minimum number of tests that you get are at your pre-shot time and at least one test during each cycle. Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on the pre-shot value. If you are concerned about the numbers being in the 300s at shot time, you don't know how low the numbers have gone during the cycle. Those mid-cycle numbers are very important for your dosing decisions.
Thank you everyone. I am in the process of figuring out the ss. Have just tested and now 320mg, that is mid cycle. I have been testing him while he has been on caninsulin so that is not a big problem in itself and he is so patient with me. Max is 15 but no problems other than the diabetes and has just had a range of blood tests. Thank you for the advice on the cold insulin.
Here's Sarah's thread from Health.
Sarah --
Would it be possible for you to get a copy of Max's recent labs from your vet and post the results? (I have Gabby's lab results on a tab on her spreadsheet.) In your post on Health, you did mention that Max has lost a good amount of weight. As someone mentioned, hyperthyroid (and diabetes) can cause weight loss. If your vet ran a standard blood panel, it's likely that a complete thyroid work-up was not done. The standard thyroid test that's run is a T4. In order to better assess if hyperthyroid is a cause for weight loss, you also need a Free T4 or a T3 suppression test. This link has a great deal of information on hyperthyroidism.
It may be that Max's weight isn't an issue. Has your vet mentioned what Max's ideal weight would be?
ETA: Is your kitty's name Max or Clark? (It looks like someone was referring to him as Clark on Health.)
Sarah --
Would it be possible for you to get a copy of Max's recent labs from your vet and post the results? (I have Gabby's lab results on a tab on her spreadsheet.) In your post on Health, you did mention that Max has lost a good amount of weight. As someone mentioned, hyperthyroid (and diabetes) can cause weight loss. If your vet ran a standard blood panel, it's likely that a complete thyroid work-up was not done. The standard thyroid test that's run is a T4. In order to better assess if hyperthyroid is a cause for weight loss, you also need a Free T4 or a T3 suppression test. This link has a great deal of information on hyperthyroidism.
It may be that Max's weight isn't an issue. Has your vet mentioned what Max's ideal weight would be?
ETA: Is your kitty's name Max or Clark? (It looks like someone was referring to him as Clark on Health.)
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Welcome to the group!!! I know that it takes a while, as Sienne said, to fill the "shed", but don't get discouraged if you still see some #s that are in the 300's or even slightly higher. We've all be there, and some of us are still there. Regulation takes time, and a lot of patience, too. I've been discouraged many times, but the people here have helped me (thank you!!), and they'll be here to help you, too. Lantus is a very nice insulin for kitties.
Again, welcome!
I look forward to seeing your spread sheet when you have it figured out.
Again, welcome!
I look forward to seeing your spread sheet when you have it figured out.
Lisa and Do Lou (GA)
Member Since 2010
Do Lou and I want to say welcome to LL you have come to the right place for guidance 
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
stopping by to welcome you and Max,
and to echo what others have said...
this is a wonderful place for help!
celi & binks
and to echo what others have said...
this is a wonderful place for help!
celi & binks
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Welcome to LantusLand! We wish you didn't have to be here, but this is the best place to be for FD.
Your test an hour after food and the shot probably is showing a food spike. The Lantus takes about 2 hours to "onset" but the carbs from the food show up in the BG in about 20 minutes. usually we test, feed shoot or shoot while the cat is eating. They hardly notice the shot then. Also take up any food left out 2 hours before the preshot test so you have a "clean" test then, no food influence.
We test before shooting to make sure that the BG# is not too low to shoot safely. As Sienne said dosing is based on the nadir #. Every cat is different (ECID) some cats have their low point right in the middle of the cycle, some are quite early and others late. So it takes a bit of time to determine just where that nadir is. Then count on it, it will change. :lol: We are looking for an average or when it usually occurs.
Welcome again, :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
Your test an hour after food and the shot probably is showing a food spike. The Lantus takes about 2 hours to "onset" but the carbs from the food show up in the BG in about 20 minutes. usually we test, feed shoot or shoot while the cat is eating. They hardly notice the shot then. Also take up any food left out 2 hours before the preshot test so you have a "clean" test then, no food influence.
We test before shooting to make sure that the BG# is not too low to shoot safely. As Sienne said dosing is based on the nadir #. Every cat is different (ECID) some cats have their low point right in the middle of the cycle, some are quite early and others late. So it takes a bit of time to determine just where that nadir is. Then count on it, it will change. :lol: We are looking for an average or when it usually occurs.
Welcome again, :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
Re: new lantus user+HELP
Thank you for all of the help so far. Clark (sorry I called him Max last time - my sons cat who I was also caring for at the time!!) has been on Lantus 1u 2x daily for a week, bg readings ranging from 18 -16, vet said yesterday to increase to 2u which I did this morning. His bg was 16.5 then +4 dropped to 3.1 PANIC and food. +8 back up to 9.1 getting ready to test again at +12. Still ongoing with ss.
Thank you for all of the help so far. Clark (sorry I called him Max last time - my sons cat who I was also caring for at the time!!) has been on Lantus 1u 2x daily for a week, bg readings ranging from 18 -16, vet said yesterday to increase to 2u which I did this morning. His bg was 16.5 then +4 dropped to 3.1 PANIC and food. +8 back up to 9.1 getting ready to test again at +12. Still ongoing with ss.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
hi sarah!
The 3.1 converts to 62. that's a good number, but you would want to watch and make sure he doesn't drop below 2.5 (=50). a test of 50 or less calls for a dose reduction. you do want to keep testing so you know he's not going below 50. if so, he needs a dose reduction. we adjust dose by .25units at a time and often can see a lot of action with just that tiny adjustment.
and welcome to Lantus Land! we'll do our best to help educate you so you can get Clark figured out and stabilized!
The 3.1 converts to 62. that's a good number, but you would want to watch and make sure he doesn't drop below 2.5 (=50). a test of 50 or less calls for a dose reduction. you do want to keep testing so you know he's not going below 50. if so, he needs a dose reduction. we adjust dose by .25units at a time and often can see a lot of action with just that tiny adjustment.
and welcome to Lantus Land! we'll do our best to help educate you so you can get Clark figured out and stabilized!
Hello Julie, I must remember to convert from mmol. When Clark came in from the garden at +4 he was looking really disorientated and slow etc. Do you think that was because it was such a big drop after the increase. I dont feel happy about such a big increase and want to put it back to 1.25u this evening.
IMHO and based on the protocol we use, increasing from 1.0 to 2.0u is too big of an increase. We increase the dose systematically -- change the dose and evaluate for 3 days -- so an effective dose isn't missed. If Clark were my cat, I'd increase the dose to 1.25u.
Also, I would retest soon. If Clark's numbers did drop that fast, while you were able to bring the numbers back up with food, there is always the possibility that they will drop again as the effect of the food wears off. Please re-test in 30 min.
You may want to take a look at the sticky on shooting and managing low numbers. There's a section in there on handling low numbers and how often to test, etc.
Also, I would retest soon. If Clark's numbers did drop that fast, while you were able to bring the numbers back up with food, there is always the possibility that they will drop again as the effect of the food wears off. Please re-test in 30 min.
You may want to take a look at the sticky on shooting and managing low numbers. There's a section in there on handling low numbers and how often to test, etc.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
hi sarah - can you test immediately now and post that number? on lantus, often disoriented & confused are signs of hypoglycemia. that requires immediate high carb food (about 1 teaspoon of the gravy) or a couple of drops of karo syrup. then retest in 20 minutes or so and repost the number.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
sarah, i'm confused about your timing. this is the "typical" but not always seen curve of lantus:
so if you're seeing disorientation, slowness, confusion he may be hypoglycemic. if so, he needs treatment immediately. we can walk you through it here. if it's the first half of the cycle he may be headed even lower. people here will help you, but would you please get a test in and post right away.
if you would edit the first post here, then edit the subject line and post the number someone would immediately be able to respond if you need help. there's almost always someone experienced online who can hold your hand.
so if you're seeing disorientation, slowness, confusion he may be hypoglycemic. if so, he needs treatment immediately. we can walk you through it here. if it's the first half of the cycle he may be headed even lower. people here will help you, but would you please get a test in and post right away.
if you would edit the first post here, then edit the subject line and post the number someone would immediately be able to respond if you need help. there's almost always someone experienced online who can hold your hand.
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Welcome to the group, Sarah! You've come to the right place.
I've never had Blackie on Caninsulin before, so I wouldn't know the effects of it. However, Lantus is a very good, gentle insulin. As Sienne said, we increase doses by increments of 0.25 units every few days (6 cycles) Each day has a 2 cycle period, meaning every 12 hours is a cycle. The 0.25 unit increases is easier on a cat's system than jumping up by a full unit, and gives the cat time to adjust to the new, smaller dose. There are instances where a cat requires a bit longer to adjust to the new dose, though. Every cat is different (ECID). It's a gradual process that will help your kitty, and you'll see progress as time goes on. Just be sure to have your patience pants on.
I've never had Blackie on Caninsulin before, so I wouldn't know the effects of it. However, Lantus is a very good, gentle insulin. As Sienne said, we increase doses by increments of 0.25 units every few days (6 cycles) Each day has a 2 cycle period, meaning every 12 hours is a cycle. The 0.25 unit increases is easier on a cat's system than jumping up by a full unit, and gives the cat time to adjust to the new, smaller dose. There are instances where a cat requires a bit longer to adjust to the new dose, though. Every cat is different (ECID). It's a gradual process that will help your kitty, and you'll see progress as time goes on. Just be sure to have your patience pants on.
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
I know that feeling all too well. We all do. Clark will be fine, and we're all here to help you with getting him regulated. YOU will do fine, also. Diet is another good place to start. What are you feeding him?
Diet is another good place to start. What are you feeding him?That is a huge relief to find so many people who know how it is. Are many cats 15+ with diabetes, when I am expecting amazing results I have to remind myself that he is also getting old. He eats Natures Menu which is a good quality high protein food, also raw chicken, tuna. Just given him 1.25u after taking bg which was 14.7 (264).
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
my punkin is 13 - most diabetic cats are older, not all, but many, and they do improve with proper care. clark will get better. 264 isn't too bad. punkin was at 234 this morning. usually the preshot number is the highest of the cycle.
very important to get a mid-cycle test that tells how low he's getting from this dose. it will vary from today to tonight to tomorrow, but as you gather data, the trends will show a lot.
very important to get a mid-cycle test that tells how low he's getting from this dose. it will vary from today to tonight to tomorrow, but as you gather data, the trends will show a lot.
Christie & Willie (GA)
Member Since 2010
Hello and welcome! Just to give you some perspective, my Willie is 15ish, has both diabetes and a chronic skin condition for which he'll be medicated for life.... and the vet told me when I took him in for a rabies shot that, but for the cloudiness in his eyes, he'd have guessed he was half his actual age... he is healthy, happy, and a big ball of playful energy.
Welcome to the family!!
Welcome to the family!!
Thank you, what beautiful kitties, I wish Clark looked like that. He used to be so fluffy, and big, now he is 13lbs and all bones and messy dandruffy, greasy fur. He wants to be in the garden all of the time, yesterday it was raining and when he was younger a drop of rain would have him running for shelter but I found him just sitting getting wet. This morning his BG was 313 and he has eaten quite a bit, although he doesnt seem as desperate as he was.
Melissa & Tarragon
Member Since 2011
That is exactly how Tarragon was when he was diagnosed, only he was 7 pounds (normally 13). His fur was very greasy and dandruff. I feel for you and know what you are going through. However, Tarragon is now my fluffy kitty and back up to 11 pounds, so it does work and Clark will get better.
Welcom to LL! We are all here for you so be sure to ask a lot of questions!!
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Just stopping in to say welcome aboard! This is the best place to be...with your love, care, and treatment, Clark will look and feel better!
Amy
Amy
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
sarah when punkin was diagnosed in december he looked near death - within one week of us starting a remodeling project he went from "normal and fluffy" to greasy hair, laying all day against his waterbowl. we followed the vet's directions until we found this site in February - and he continued to look fairly bad. when we got him on lantus and regulated, he stopped spending all day by the waterbowl, and he began to perk up. he still hasn't restarted grooming, but i buy pet washclothes at the pet store (like baby wipes, but safe for cats) and i wipe him down and comb him most days. the difference is amazing. when their blood sugar gets under control they begin to look and feel better. give it a few weeks and hopefully clark will perk back up.
i do find that i probably wipe punkin more for me than for him. when he looks greasy and his hair all separates i think he looks sick. he doesn't care. when his hair if fluffy i think he looks healthy. so it is perhaps more for my mental health! :lol:
i do find that i probably wipe punkin more for me than for him. when he looks greasy and his hair all separates i think he looks sick. he doesn't care. when his hair if fluffy i think he looks healthy. so it is perhaps more for my mental health! :lol:
It is so good to get so much positve news. I was feeling that I was just getting no where with no improvement. To hear about all of your cats and the huge improvements they have made, is amazing. I use the wipes too and I agree, I dont think Clark worries at all about his appearance, I just think when you look tidy you feel better!!
Sarah xx
Sarah xx
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Sarah, Blackie was the same way, too, when she was first diagnosed. She'd just lay next to the water bowl, or close to it as possible. Her grooming wasn't there, and she was constantly tired, and lethargic. She used to play a lot before her ailment, but not now. Since I've started getting her regulated better, she's not nearly as lethargic, and she's grooming herself a lot more. She used to lay down on the floor alot instead of sit down. Now, it's more sitting than laying. She still lays down on occasion on the kitchen floor, but I think that's to do with the coolnes of the floor against her belly. It's still rather warm here in Texas. :lol:
I have noticed lately that when I need to feed her either a medium or a high carbed food, she does get that lethargic look about her, until the insulin kicks in, and brings her #s back down to where they need to be. She's a strict, no-carb food now (I feed her Evo 95% Chicken and Turkey, which is 0% in carbs, and she has steamed chicken as a treat 2x a day, which is also 0% in carbs). You do learn your cat as you go along this process, and you do become more vigilant with anything and everything normal or otherwise. Having a diabetic cat is a learning process. You learn to find what works and what doesn't with your kitty as ECID (every cat is different). You'll get there. Just remember to have a lot of patience.
I have noticed lately that when I need to feed her either a medium or a high carbed food, she does get that lethargic look about her, until the insulin kicks in, and brings her #s back down to where they need to be. She's a strict, no-carb food now (I feed her Evo 95% Chicken and Turkey, which is 0% in carbs, and she has steamed chicken as a treat 2x a day, which is also 0% in carbs). You do learn your cat as you go along this process, and you do become more vigilant with anything and everything normal or otherwise. Having a diabetic cat is a learning process. You learn to find what works and what doesn't with your kitty as ECID (every cat is different). You'll get there.
Just remember to have a lot of patience.- Status