New here

[motherofjasper]

Good morning,

My cat Jasper, is 13 and we learned on June 3rd that he is diabetic. Started off at 1 unit Glargine every 12 hrs, and we have worked up to 3.5. he has had 4 glucose curves at the vet with the most recent results looking the best so far with his range around 300 at which time his dose was increased to the 3.5 units. He is scheduled on the 24th of Nov. for another curve.

I was told he'd need a curve every 4 weeks and once the correct dose was achieved wouldn't need a curve test so frequently. What kills me is that I keep going back with the same complaints (peeing absolutely everywhere, constant drinking, ravenous appetite) and I was never told about the necessity of testing before every shot and the accuracy it can provide with regard to proper dosing. All other labs are wnl. There has been improvement with the symptoms and the mild hind weakness has disappeared so I'm doing something right, but he continues to urinate indiscriminately anywhere and everywhere, but less frequently. 3 litter boxes changed daily (2 other cats). No ketone information.

I have a relion classic on order with some strips. I was unable to view the spreadsheet file on the FB forum and I've never made a spreadsheet

I've been so incredibly stressed out with the peeing I'm ready to give up! He pees on beds, furniture, rugs, the dining table, clean laundry, my dresser, you name it. We have doors closed leaving us unable to heat them properly. We've learned to become hyper vigilant.

My goal is learn how to use the spreadsheet, how to interpret results on the monitor as the values are different, and get Jasper's numbers improved. Thanks for your help!

 

[motherofjasper]

Good morning,

My cat Jasper, is 13 and we learned on June 3rd that he is diabetic. Started off at 1 unit Glargine every 12 hrs, and we have worked up to 3.5. he has had 4 glucose curves at the vet with the most recent results looking the best so far with his range around 300 at which time his dose was increased to the 3.5 units. He is scheduled on the 24th of Nov. for another curve.

I was told he'd need a curve every 4 weeks and once the correct dose was achieved wouldn't need a curve test so frequently. What kills me is that I keep going back with the same complaints (peeing absolutely everywhere, constant drinking, ravenous appetite) and I was never told about the necessity of testing before every shot and the accuracy it can provide with regard to proper dosing. All other labs are wnl. There has been improvement with the symptoms and the mild hind weakness has disappeared so I'm doing something right, but he continues to urinate indiscriminately anywhere and everywhere, but with less frequently. 3 litter boxes changed daily (2 other cats). No ketone information.

I have a relion classic on order with some strips. I was unable to view the spreadsheet file on the FB forum and I've never made a spreadsheet

I've been so incredibly stressed out with the peeing I'm ready to give up! He pees on beds, furniture, rugs, the dining table, clean laundry, my dresser, you name it. We have doors closed leaving us unable to heat them properly. We've learned to become hyper vigilant.

My goal is learn how to use the spreadsheet, how to interpret results on the monitor as the values are different, and get Jasper's numbers improved. Thanks for your help!

What I can say though is he's the goodest boy and very lovey.

 

[motherofjasper]

What I can say though is he's the goodest boy and very lovey.

He has prior history of crystals in his urine, which is why we feed w\d, and his weight is well controlled now. He was fed s\o for years with good symptom control. Attempts to use other foods bring symptoms back.

 

[CORKY]

Welcome to FDMB, the spreadsheet should be downloaded on Google Drive for public review and all the information need onto of spreadsheet. Is great tge you will be home testing, especially because of all those trips to the vet, which is very stressful for you money wise and stressful for Jasper, you do not need a vet for a curve a curve is simply testing every 2 hours for a cycle (12 hours) that's it and at home with Jasper away from stress, will have more accurate BG numbers, is good to always test before each shot and at least 2-3 times between the day, you want to know how the insulin is working throughout each shot, in this forum we can also assist you with dosing, by knowing more about Jasper, we always recommend increases/decreases in 0.25 units at a time, I will tag a couple of members as well to give a broader input or add to my post, you are in the right place we are here for you
@Wendy&Neko
@squeem3

 

[squeem3]

I don't know how the FB spreadsheet works but the instructions to create a spreadsheet for this board is here: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/ @Bandit's Mom can help you set one up.

The Relion meter is fine. You can't really interpret one number. One number just tells you what the cat's blood glucose level is at that time. Track the numbers in the spreadsheet or just paper for now. Always test before giving insulin. Newbies are advised to not give any insulin if the cat is under 200 but there may be exceptions. Try to get a random test or two between the insulin times. Most people do this during the day but you can do the evening if that works better.

If you're testing at home you do not need to pay the vet to do a curve which won't be accurate anyways. Vet stress causes many cats to have elevated blood glucose levels. You can do a curve yourself by testing approximately every 2 hours from the one insulin shot to the next. If your cat hides, don't worry. Just get as many tests in as you can. AIm t get a test or two between 4 hours post-insulin injection and 8 hours post-insulin injection. This is when Lantus tends to peak in many cats.

Normal levels are roughly 60 to 150 mg/dl. Don't worry too much about the numbers unless you get a number under 60 which indicates hypoglycemia. You may see signs of hypoglycemia. A dose reduction is needed if a cat has a hypo episode.

Sticky - jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX
Sticky - How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!

Is the W/D food dry or canned? Neither are good for diabetic cats because they're too high in carbs which keeps blood glucose levels too high and means more insulin is needed to get blood glucose levels in a healthier range. Give this a read on urinary issues in cats: Cat Urinary Tract Diseases: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection There may be an alternative for crystals. Generally increasing water intake, easiest done by feeding only canned food and it doesn't have to be prescription, keeps the urine diluted enough so that crystals don't form and also keeps the urinary system health. A supplement like d-mannose may be helpful.

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Welcome to you and Jasper. We know it’s a difficult time when diagnosed.
The information posted above is very helpful and can get you going in a good direction. Be sure to read the stickies posted on this site for tons of good tips.

Be sure to ask lots of questions and definitely look into changing Jasper’s diet to a low carb wet food.

Once you get to a good dose of insulin his peeing will reduce drastically.

Sending you and Jasper good wishes toward a healthy outcome

 

[motherofjasper]

Thank you. He's dealt with urinary issues for many years and the special food has kept it under control. I've tried to go off brand and try different ones, but symptoms return. We've had good results with s/o which he was eating for years with good results, but it was suggested to give him the w/d. Canned only. I've only ever fed him canned. He gets half a can at regular feeding times 2x day and half can before his shot, so 2 cans per day. He drinks a ton and I'm really not concerned about water intake. Pees alot so obv no obstruction. I thought w\d was supposed to be good for diabetics? I'm scared to try another food. His weight is good. How would I find out carb content? It's not listed on the can. I know many of you use Fancy feast or others but I don't dare. It's a fine line and I really don't want to mess with it unless I know it will be ok.

The meter arrived so I can start today. I'll get the file and let you know how it goes. Thank you. He's due for his shot right about now so I'll start using the meter and recording numbers later today.

I knew we could do the curve at home as it was mentioned in the beginning, but as a matter of convenience I had it done at the vet as I was overwhelmed at first just doing the shots and keeping up with the constant peeing everywhere, which is what brought me here in the first place, but it's easy now.

 

[motherofjasper]

Do I need one of those blue holder things? My kit didn't come with that or the green thing either.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

That just looks like a lancet and lancing device. You will need lancets, but optional on the device. Many of us have found it easier to freehand. Any 28G lancets off Amazon or wherever would be fine.

 

[motherofjasper]

Oh man I gotta go buy another thing lol thank you. I bought the meter and testing strips only.

Edit: we do have some lancets it turns out. Is it acceptable to re use or no?

 

[CORKY]

Thank you. He's dealt with urinary issues for many years and the special food has kept it under control. I've tried to go off brand and try different ones, but symptoms return. We've had good results with s/o which he was eating for years with good results, but it was suggested to give him the w/d. Canned only. I've only ever fed him canned. He gets half a can at regular feeding times 2x day and half can before his shot, so 2 cans per day. He drinks a ton and I'm really not concerned about water intake. Pees alot so obv no obstruction. I thought w\d was supposed to be good for diabetics? I'm scared to try another food. His weight is good. How would I find out carb content? It's not listed on the can. I know many of you use Fancy feast or others but I don't dare. It's a fine line and I really don't want to mess with it unless I know it will be ok.

The meter arrived so I can start today. I'll get the file and let you know how it goes. Thank you. He's due for his shot right about now so I'll start using the meter and recording numbers later today.

I knew we could do the curve at home as it was mentioned in the beginning, but as a matter of convenience I had it done at the vet as I was overwhelmed at first just doing the shots and keeping up with the constant peeing everywhere, which is what brought me here in the first place, but it's easy now.

Thank you. He's dealt with urinary issues for many years and the special food has kept it under control. I've tried to go off brand and try different ones, but symptoms return. We've had good results with s/o which he was eating for years with good results, but it was suggested to give him the w/d. Canned only. I've only ever fed him canned. He gets half a can at regular feeding times 2x day and half can before his shot, so 2 cans per day. He drinks a ton and I'm really not concerned about water intake. Pees alot so obv no obstruction. I thought w\d was supposed to be good for diabetics? I'm scared to try another food. His weight is good. How would I find out carb content? It's not listed on the can. I know many of you use Fancy feast or others but I don't dare. It's a fine line and I really don't want to mess with it unless I know it will be ok.

The meter arrived so I can start today. I'll get the file and let you know how it goes. Thank you. He's due for his shot right about now so I'll start using the meter and recording numbers later today.

I knew we could do the curve at home as it was mentioned in the beginning, but as a matter of convenience I had it done at the vet as I was overwhelmed at first just doing the shots and keeping up with the constant peeing everywhere, which is what brought me here in the first place, but it's easy now.

Here is a cat carb food calculator, you will use the %s of the ingredients in the food, place them in each cell accordingly, the Dry Matter carbs are the correct carb % to look for, the ideal carbs a diabetic cat needs to be regulated are between 0-10% carbs, most members feed up to 5% carbs
LOW CARBS 0-10%
MEDIUM CARBS 11-15%
HIGH CARBS 16-24 %
if you are not sure about the nutrients, you can go the Web site of CHEWY.COM find the food on hand, click on the can, scroll down to ingredients you will see the nontreatments, those are the %s to use on the calculator

Cat Food Nutrition Calculator | Elizabeth C Scheyder

 

[motherofjasper]

There is no value listed for ash or other minerals but with that being said I got a value of 4.4% carbs. A.I says 6.6%. I'm good with either one and will continue to use for now at least. Expensive yes but it's well tolerated, is effective, he loves it and appears to be low enough carb.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Oh man I gotta go buy another thing lol thank you. I bought the meter and testing strips only. are the lancets single use?

Yep, single use. But they’re pretty inexpensive.

 

[motherofjasper]

Welcome to you and Jasper. We know it’s a difficult time when diagnosed.
The information posted above is very helpful and can get you going in a good direction. Be sure to read the stickies posted on this site for tons of good tips.

Be sure to ask lots of questions and definitely look into changing Jasper’s diet to a low carb wet food.

Once you get to a good dose of insulin his peeing will reduce drastically.

Sending you and Jasper good wishes toward a healthy outcome

Thank you! It appears his current food is acceptable.

 

[squeem3]

W/D canned is 25%b carbs, way too high. It's recommended to feed foods less than 10& carbs. The food chart is here: https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Prescription food isn't needed for most health issues. None of the ingredients are any different from most commercially available food. Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition – Common Sense. Healthy Cats.

Maybe @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) have suggestions on what to feed your cat.

You need lancets (the thing with the needle) to get blood from the cat's ear or paw pad with. The device to hold the lancet in is optional. Some people use them, others don't. Give the device a try. If it's too cumbersome to use, try carefully freeholding the lancet. Some lancet devices and lancets work better than others. You don't need to use the ones that comes with the meter or even the same brand as the meter.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I had a cat with idiopathic cystitis and crystals, who got his diagnosis 1 week after Neko's FD diagnosis. Guess he didn't want to have her get all the attention! Anyway, he started on C/D, Neko pushed him out of his dish and dove in. I was policing meal times, it wasn't fun. I went to his vet and asked what both cats could eat, and she recommended raw. So I switched. Turns out it didn't have to be raw, but rather low carb and low phosphorus (which raw was) and plenty of water added. Same website as quoted above, different page: Cat Urinary Tract Diseases: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection. Fancy Feast is not low phosphorus. The food chart linked in the previous post also lists some current foods, both carb and phosphorus values. Some manufactures (eg. Weruva) and list breakdowns on their website.

The lancets that come with the meter may be too small to start. We recommend starting with 26-28 gauge ones.

We've seen a few cats go into diabetic remission after transitioning away from W/D. Make sure you are comfy testing before doing the transition, and do it slowly. Insulin needs can change a lot and quickly with low carb food.

Small correction on above information, we don't want cats on insulin to go below 50 on a human meter. I have tested my own non diabetic cats, plus those of a friend, all in the low 50's, one in upper 40's.

 

[motherofjasper]

W/D canned is 25%b carbs, way too high. It's recommended to feed foods less than 10& carbs. The food chart is here: https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Prescription food isn't needed for most health issues. None of the ingredients are any different from most commercially available food. Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition – Common Sense. Healthy Cats.

Maybe @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) have suggestions on what to feed your cat.

You need lancets (the thing with the needle) to get blood from the cat's ear or paw pad with. The device to hold the lancet in is optional. Some people use them, others don't. Give the device a try. If it's too cumbersome to use, try carefully freeholding the lancet. Some lancet devices and lancets work better than others. You don't need to use the ones that comes with the meter or even the same brand as the meter.

W/D canned is 25%b carbs, way too high. It's recommended to feed foods less than 10& carbs. The food chart is here: https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Prescription food isn't needed for most health issues. None of the ingredients are any different from most commercially available food. Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition – Common Sense. Healthy Cats.

Maybe @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) have suggestions on what to feed your cat.

You need lancets (the thing with the needle) to get blood from the cat's ear or paw pad with. The device to hold the lancet in is optional. Some people use them, others don't. Give the device a try. If it's too cumbersome to use, try carefully freeholding the lancet. Some lancet devices and lancets work better than others. You don't need to use the ones that comes with the meter or even the same brand as the meter.

Thank you. I do understand about the necessity for low carb food, and that it's not completely necessary to have prescription food. I'd like to save money trust me, but as I mentioned before I'm just worried about the crystals problem. The variance between what I got from the nutrition calculator. and what's on the chart here is huge.

I do have some lancets, and strips. Got a couple readings so far. Honestly I'm finding the spreadsheet confusing. I'm sure it will become more clear as I study it.

I do have a question about calculating carbs, now on the Hill's website it says carb content of the wet w/d is 26.4 % with moisture removed, is that how it is usually calculated? I just want it to make sense to me, thanks everyone for your input!

 

[motherofjasper]

I had a cat with idiopathic cystitis and crystals, who got his diagnosis 1 week after Neko's FD diagnosis. Guess he didn't want to have her get all the attention! Anyway, he started on C/D, Neko pushed him out of his dish and dove in. I was policing meal times, it wasn't fun. I went to his vet and asked what both cats could eat, and she recommended raw. So I switched. Turns out it didn't have to be raw, but rather low carb and low phosphorus (which raw was) and plenty of water added. Same website as quoted above, different page: Cat Urinary Tract Diseases: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection. Fancy Feast is not low phosphorus. The food chart linked in the previous post also lists some current foods, both carb and phosphorus values. Some manufactures (eg. Weruva) and list breakdowns on their website.

The lancets that come with the meter may be too small to start. We recommend starting with 26-28 gauge ones.

We've seen a few cats go into diabetic remission after transitioning away from W/D. Make sure you are comfy testing before doing the transition, and do it slowly. Insulin needs can change a lot and quickly with low carb food.

Small correction on above information, we don't want cats on insulin to go below 50 on a human meter. I have tested my own non diabetic cats, plus those of a friend, all in the low 50's, one in upper 40's.

What are your thoughts on the cost comparison? Of raw vs what you started with?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I used both manufactured raw and made my own. I tried a couple different premixes, TC Feline and EZ Complete, you basically add the mix and water to the meat. I have an organic exotic meat butcher about 5 minutes drive from me. Also a local pet food store not too far away that does all sorts of novel proteins, some complete meals, and some just the meat. The cost of raw depended heavily on the meat I used. I figured the organic chicken meals costs weren't much different and sometimes a bit less than that some of the products like Weruva or TikiCat. Rabbit, elk, venison, buffalo, kangaroo were more expensive than chicken or turkey.

More detail on calculating carbs on the catinfo.org website and this post: Calculating % Calories from Carbohydrates

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

One of the issues with using the values for calculating carbs is that the values on the can are the guaranteed analysis. If you notice, they are listed as minimums or maximums. The food chart we recommend is based on "as fed" values. That may account for the difference. Also, be sure you were putting the correct values in on the calculator and putting the values in the correct places.

You may find this post helpful It contains the link to the spreadsheet template. It also has a link to a post that helps you to understand how to use the spreadsheet. There's also information regarding how to set up your signature so we don't keep asking you the same questions about your cat. There is also useful information on getting started here.