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Brandybyrd2012

Member Since 2019
My name is Brandy and my kitty Nala will be 10 in November and was diagnosed last December. The vet put her on humalog 2 units twice daily. She eats 1/2 cup dry cat food per day. I asked about having her sugar checked regularly and he said it would cause more stress on her. Unfortunately my 13 year old daughter was diagnosed 2 months before Nala so my hands are beyond full. I see here a lot of your little ones are on lantus I have tons of lantus, but don't know how much I would give her. I would also be willing to change her food to the fancy feast. I just need help as the vet doesn't seem very confident and there aren't a lot to choose from where I live.
 
most vets don't know much, if anything, about day to day management with diabetic cats

you will know far more just from your experience with your daughter -- and there are members here with DECADES of experience

if you are curious, go over to the Lantus forum (under the Forums tab) and read the stickies about working with Lantus -- you'll find it is a different experience from Humalog

there are guidelines there for dosages, and many members who will help you out too

yes -- transition carefully and gradually from dry food to low-carbohydrate canned (like Fancy Feast pate) since you are already giving Nala insulin

oh yes, testing cats at home can be managed with far less stress than going to the vet -- so much depends on the individual cat, and the way you set up the testing ...

welcome -- ask any and all questions -- there will be someone with answers
 
CandyH and Catcat said:
most vets don't know much, if anything, about day to day management with diabetic cats

you will know far more just from your experience with your daughter -- and there are members here with DECADES of experience

if you are curious, go over to the Lantus forum (under the Forums tab) and read the stickies about working with Lantus -- you'll find it is a different experience from Humalog

there are guidelines there for dosages, and many members who will help you out too

yes -- transition carefully and gradually from dry food to low-carbohydrate canned (like Fancy Feast pate) since you are already giving Nala insulin

welcome -- ask any and all questions -- there will be someone with answers
Click to expand...

Thank you for the welcome. I'm actually pretty worried she usually eats her food with no problem. She gets fed twice daily and gets 2 units of humalog after each meal. However she is hardly eating the past two days. She isn't vomiting, but just lays around in one spot. She acts like she doesn't want to be touched which she has always been a moody kitty. I checked her sugar earlier in fear it may be low and that was causing her to be lethargic. Her sugar was 286. She also has multiple mammary tumors. Unfortunately with my 13 yr old having diabetes as well I can't really afford to take Nala to the vet. I have seen where a lot of people give the wet food and a long acting insulin like lantus. I have plenty of lantus I could give her, but don't know how much wet food to give ans how to do the transition . She weighs about 7 pounds. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Hi Brandy, I saw you post on the FB page, I answered you there and have been checking to see if you would post here. Welcome! You are going to get good, experienced information and advice here.
As CandyH suggested visit the Lantus forum HERE and start reading the information in the yellow tagged stickies at the top of the page.

As I told you on the FB page, your vet is wrong about testing. We all test our cats' blood sugar. They still love us, hog the bed and in my case, rule the roost! There are many fewer nerves in a cat's ear than there are in finger tips, and if you have ever used a lancet on your finger, then you know that really doesn't sting very much. Testing is going to help you keep Nala safe and let you know how the insulin is working in her body. I'm glad you are willing to test, and providing a treat as a reward just reinforces that this is not a bad thing, just another thing that crazy "bean" does. You test your daughter's blood sugar, same principles apply.

Diet is important, it should be low carb wet food, like Fancy Feast Classics or Friskies pates. Lots of flavor varieties, comparatively inexpensive and available at the grocery store.The dry food is too high in carbs for sugar cats and is only fueling the carb intake/more insulin cycle.
Most diabetic cats do better with more frequent smaller meals throughout the day. How much she should eat is going to depend on her calorie needs per weight, and until her blood sugar is regulated, she will want to eat more.
***It's really important to be testing regularly and consistently before you transition Nala off dry food, as changing to low carb wet food can significantly lower the BG and you will want to know that.

Would you please create a signature so that we can see Nala's pertinent information when you post?
1. Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the country/time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.
2. Another thing that will help us help you now that you have started BG testing at home is to set up a spreadsheet like the one we use here. You will see how the trends and patterns emerge, and members can review his/her progress before offering suggestions or advice:
SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS
UNDERSTANDING THE SPREADSHEET

I can't advise you on particular doses of Lantus if you decide to use that insulin. You will need to post in that forum and see what the experienced members would say about that. Lantus is a very good insulin for cats, much longer lasting and gentle than the Humalog you are using. Please consult with the wise women and men on the Lantus forum for help.

Best wishes going forward, and I am so glad you are here. :cat:
 
Hi Brandy and Nala and welcome
First of all I don't thing the insulin you are using at the moment is a good insulin for cats and lantus would be a much better insulin for her. As far as I am aware Humalog drops the insulin fast, but I am not very familiar with it.
Just some questions to gather info. Is that OK?
Do you test before every shot to ensure it is safe to give the insulin?
Do you test a couple of hours later to see how low the insulin is taking Nala?
Are the mammary tumours being treated at all?
Have you ever tested for ketones in the urine? With the lethargy and not eating I am concerned she may have ketones.
I would recommend you go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix which you can get from the pharmacy or Walmart and then collect a urine sample from Nala and test it for ketones. Anything above a trace needs vet attention, otherwise it can develop into ketoacidosis (DKA) which is a very serious illness. I would test for the ketones asap.

If Nala is not eating much I would not give 2 units of the Humalog as it is a rapid acting insulin and brings down the blood glucose level quickly.
Changing over to Lantus is a very good idea but first you need to be testing the BG levels to see what dose to give. If you swap over to a low carb diet which is recommended you MUST be testing the BG levels because the lower carb diet will most likely drop the BG levels significantly.
With the Humalog you need to make sure she has eaten well before the shot but with Lantus you can feed some of the food before the shot and then more during the cycle.
I think the first thing you need to do is address why she is feeling unwell and not eating.
so I would test the ketones first and then go from there.
We need to ensure she is getting enough food and enough insulin to prevent ketones developing.
Could she have an infection, such as a UTI, at the moment?
Are her teeth OK?
I am going to tag @Sienne and Gabby (GA) and @Wendy&Neko about starting lantus.
Keep asking questions
 
For now, this is from the NPH (humalog) page:
  • Your cat may need feeding more than twice a day. Many cats do well on a number of smaller meals fed throughout the day. Some cats can be ‘free fed’ for much of the time.

  • It's a good idea to feed your cat an hour before giving insulin. This is to ensure there is food in the cat’s system for when the insulin starts to work, and to help ensure that the BG doesn’t drop too fast or too low. Not all cats will experience a fast BG drop with N/NPH, but until your testing data shows otherwise, it is wise to assume that this may be the case with your cat.

Taking dry food, which is high in carbs, out of the equation can drop a cat's blood glucose by up to 100 points. During this time period, the cat needs to be home tested to make sure it is not dropping too low. Do not drop the dry food until you are regularly testing your cat's blood glucose (BG).

You are already ahead of most newly diagnosed diabetic cat owners. You know something about diabetes. You are used to giving insulin, testing your daughter, and have all the supplies (lantus, monitor, test strips - yes, a human meter will do just fine).

We can help you with the transition. Lantus is a much gentler, long term insulin. It builds up a depot in the system. Humalog is an in and out insulin and the drops are hard and fast.

The other issue at play is the mammary gland tumours. And this is a big issue. Can you give some history please?
 
Thanks @CandyH and Catcat !

Welcome Brandy and Nala! It sure does sound like you have your hands full!

My cat was diagnosed diabetic probably the same time her mammary tumor was coming up.... is Nala spayed? If not, I highly encourage you to spay Nala even if you can not afford to remove the mammary tumors. They are most likely being fed by the hormones, and spaying could drastically reduce her need for insulin, as could removing the tumors eventually. If finances are an issue with veterinary care, there may sometimes be low cost clinics available, depending on your area, and I would be glad to try and look for resources for you if you would like the help.

I agree with @Bron and Sheba that ketones are a concern right now.

Here’s what I went through with Alice:
Dx in October
Diet change
Noticed lump in December
Started NPH in January
Fumbled poorly with testing
Alice kept starving from the inside out because NPH was not lasting enough for each 12 hour cycle, her dose kept going up, etc
Beginning of April, loss of appetite, vomiting, went into DKA, almost died in our arms on the way to emergency vet, $2,000!!!
Three day hospitalization
Switch to 3x/day administration of NPH in order to regulate her post-hospital
Switch to Lantus mid-April thanks to Diabetic Cats in Need
Nursed with very little sleep and LOTS of home testing until end of May when she started to really regulate more as she adjusted to Lantus and got stronger and safer
Continued general care
Surgery to spay and remove mammary tumor June 12
63% reduction in insulin needs since surgery, as of today
Tumor was cancerous, according to Cornell 85% of mammary tumors are malignant, it was grade 2 with good margins, no veterinary oncologist available, no chemo currently being received
She was as little as 1.8kg, now 3.5kg, weight restored, happier and healthier again


I hope that timeline helps a bit.

Feline diabetes has a steep learning curve and it took me several months to really get my head in and figure out what needed to be done. The absolute first thing as soon as you can I would say is test for ketones. You can use a long-handled spoon to catch a urine sample, or place plastic wrap over the litter box to catch some. It’s not good for testing if it gets all mixed into the litter. You could also leave Nala alone in the bathroom with an clean, empty litter box, if that is what is easiest.

Best wishes to you and your daughter and Nala, and please do come back and keep asking questions!!! We all want to help and we all have been where you are, worried, scared, confused, trying to learn, usually very exhausted!!! It gets easier.

Edit to add: if ketones are present you may be able to head off ketoacidosis before it becomes an emergency trip, and this in itself will save money in the long run. We can help walk you through dealing with ketones, too, if needed!!!
 
The spreadsheets we use are a great tool we use for helping people figure out how to dose their cats. Seeing how your cat responds to her current insulin can guide us. I am glad you are doing some testing already.

If you switch to Lantus, you wouldn’t be the first person sharing their or a relatives insulin with their cat.
 
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