New here :) questions about regulating and feeding

[Melissa & Tiger]

Hi, this is my first post on the forum!
It's going to be a little long. Sorry in advance!

My name is Melissa from California and I have a 7 year old sweet guy named tiger. In January, while I was out of the country and my parents were cat-sitters, he was diagnosed. A lot took place over the next few months to try to regulate and in hopes of reversing his diabetes. All failed efforts.

Now I'm back in the states and learning to handle his diabetes all on my own. There is so much info online as well as contradicting ideas from his old vet and his new one. To say it's all very confusing and frustrating would be an understatement. I feel pretty lost doing this all on my own, just the two of us working and relying on each other to figure it all out! Any help from veteran diabetic cat owners is much appreciated!

He's been diabetic 10 months now and we have upped his insulin dose to 4 units twice a day as well as two feedings of purina DM wet food before his injections. But his numbers are always all over the place and it feels like we are always just upping his insulin and hoping something will change, with little to show for it.

So I have a few questions!
First: I've just gotten comfortable with home testing in the last few weeks. Before this we were blindly giving insulin twice a day. Is it recommended to check glucose EVERYTIME before injection. Or is it ok to test only occasionally?

Second: if his reading is under 250 I was told not to give insulin but to check again at the 6 hour mark. If his number goes up then is there a protocol or would I just wait until his dinner feeding and give the insulin then?

Third: he is on the perscription food which is costing me a fortune! I've read many posts that say feeding super market wet food is fine. I'm shocked because the vet made it sound like the perscription was very important! Is friskies really an ok option? Is there another brand that other members like that's more in the midrange? Would changing the food brand be ok to do cold turnkey? Doing so would save me $$ but I'll only do if it's in tigers best interests.

Forth: he gets fed one can twice a day which the vet said is more then enough cals for his body weight. But this guy is ALWAYS hungry. He wakes me up at 5am for breakfast and follows me around the kitchen nipping at me and meowing the moment I get home from work. I read that many people split up their meals but my vet told me this was not a good thing to do since feeding raises their glucose and it is best to only feed when giving insulin to counter act it. I'm torn on what to do. Does anyone have any recommendations for helping my little guy not be so ravenous through out the day?

I think that's all the questions I have for now. I'm just hoping to try to get him in a good place where his numbers aren't all over the place. And in the process I'm learning a lot about the disease as well so i can be the best diabetic cat mama I can be! Thanks to anyone who can answer any of the questions!

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Hi, this is my first post on the forum!
It's going to be a little long. Sorry in advance!

My name is Melissa from California and I have a 7 year old sweet guy named tiger. In January, while I was out of the country and my parents were cat-sitters, he was diagnosed. A lot took place over the next few months to try to regulate and in hopes of reversing his diabetes. All failed efforts.

Now I'm back in the states and learning to handle his diabetes all on my own. There is so much info online as well as contradicting ideas from his old vet and his new one. To say it's all very confusing and frustrating would be an understatement. I feel pretty lost doing this all on my own, just the two of us working and relying on each other to figure it all out! Any help from veteran diabetic cat owners is much appreciated!

He's been diabetic 10 months now and we have upped his insulin dose to 4 units twice a day as well as two feedings of purina DM wet food before his injections. But his numbers are always all over the place and it feels like we are always just upping his insulin and hoping something will change, with little to show for it.

So I have a few questions!
First: I've just gotten comfortable with home testing in the last few weeks. Before this we were blindly giving insulin twice a day. Is it recommended to check glucose EVERYTIME before injection. Or is it ok to test only occasionally?

Second: if his reading is under 250 I was told not to give insulin but to check again at the 6 hour mark. If his number goes up then is there a protocol or would I just wait until his dinner feeding and give the insulin then?

Third: he is on the perscription food which is costing me a fortune! I've read many posts that say feeding super market wet food is fine. I'm shocked because the vet made it sound like the perscription was very important! Is friskies really an ok option? Is there another brand that other members like that's more in the midrange? Would changing the food brand be ok to do cold turnkey? Doing so would save me $$ but I'll only do if it's in tigers best interests.

Forth: he gets fed one can twice a day which the vet said is more then enough cals for his body weight. But this guy is ALWAYS hungry. He wakes me up at 5am for breakfast and follows me around the kitchen nipping at me and meowing the moment I get home from work. I read that many people split up their meals but my vet told me this was not a good thing to do since feeding raises their glucose and it is best to only feed when giving insulin to counter act it. I'm torn on what to do. Does anyone have any recommendations for helping my little guy not be so ravenous through out the day?

I think that's all the questions I have for now. I'm just hoping to try to get him in a good place where his numbers aren't all over the place. And in the process I'm learning a lot about the disease as well so i can be the best diabetic cat mama I can be! Thanks to anyone who can answer any of the questions!

Welcome Melissa and Tiger! Glad you are researching to see how you can help your sweet Tiger. We have a protocol that is very successful..

We advocate testing at home. Good for you to start that - it is the best way to keep your kitty safe. We suggest testing before each shot (to be sure the number is high enough for the amount you plant to give.) and 5-7 hours after the shot, to see how low the insulin takes him. Our no shoot number for new diabetics is 200 - until you get enough data to be able to predict how low a given dose might take him, and are comfortable enough with testing to be able to test often, if he starts to drop low.

We don't think prescription food is any better than that sold at stores. The only thing prescription about it is the price (Check the ingredients and they are similar. Sometimes the OTC ingredients are better). We have a great food chart; in general we suggest feeding 8-10% or below. http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. Lots of people eat Friskies and Fancy Feast pates.

What insulin are you using? That is the other part of our protocol - a mild, long lasting insulin. We have forums for most of the popular insulins, with particular info on each one.

Some people feed two meals daily; some feed several small meals daily. It depends on which method works best for you and for your cat. Both most diabetic cats are literally starving - their body is not utilizing their food efficiently. So you can feed a little more than usual at first if your kitty is underweight. And we do have tricks to fool the kitty into thinking they are getting more - like adding warm water and making a gravy so it seems like more to eat.

Keep reading and asking questions. Everyone who responds is paying it forward for help they received when they were new and scared.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

I'm sure others will weigh in but I'll start. You've definitely come to the right place. There's a wealth of experience here and we've all been where you are - lost, confused and overwhelmed. It will get easier and you'll find a lot of support on this forum. I'll answer your questions as you've presented them:

1. Yes, we recommend testing blood glucose before every injection to see if the dose is safe - ie., not too high. Kitties throw curve balls at us all the time. Whenever possible, we also recommend doing some mid cycle (the 12 hours between doses) tests to see how low the insulin takes your cat. BTW, which insulin are you using. There are differences in the way they act.

2. Are you using a pet glucose meter or a human meter? There are different cutoff values for "no shot". Pet meters tend to read higher than human meters and give results closer to what the vet would measure. The test strips are very expensive though so many people use a human meter from Walmart (the ReLion type) which has much cheaper strips. A reading of 250 is a good conservative cutoff for deciding when to withhold a dose. As you get to know Tiger's responses better you might be able to lower the cutoff number.

3. There is absolutely no need to buy expensive prescription food. Many of us feed grocery store brands of canned food like Friskies and Fancy Feast, pate style only. The gravy types are too high in carbs. Wet food is best and if you're planning to change food it's always best to transition slowly over several days.

4. Unregulated diabetic kitties are always hungry because they aren't able to use properly metabolize food. Vets often recommend feeding only twice a day but many people here feed 3+ meals a day and some use automated pet feeders to give overnight meals. Some cats' blood glucose is reactive to meal timing but not all.

 

[Melissa & Tiger]

Welcome Melissa and Tiger! Glad you are researching to see how you can help your sweet Tiger. We have a protocol that is very successful..

We advocate testing at home. Good for you to start that - it is the best way to keep your kitty safe. We suggest testing before each shot (to be sure the number is high enough for the amount you plant to give.) and 5-7 hours after the shot, to see how low the insulin takes him. Our no shoot number for new diabetics is 200 - until you get enough data to be able to predict how low a given dose might take him, and are comfortable enough with testing to be able to test often, if he starts to drop low.

We don't think prescription food is any better than that sold at stores. The only thing prescription about it is the price (Check the ingredients and they are similar. Sometimes the OTC ingredients are better). We have a great food chart; in general we suggest feeding 8-10% or below. http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. Lots of people eat Friskies and Fancy Feast pates.

What insulin are you using? That is the other part of our protocol - a mild, long lasting insulin. We have forums for most of the popular insulins, with particular info on each one.

Some people feed two meals daily; some feed several small meals daily. It depends on which method works best for you and for your cat. Both most diabetic cats are literally starving - their body is not utilizing their food efficiently. So you can feed a little more than usual at first if your kitty is underweight. And we do have tricks to fool the kitty into thinking they are getting more - like adding warm water and making a gravy so it seems like more to eat.

Keep reading and asking questions. Everyone who responds is paying it forward for help they received when they were new and scared.

Thank you for the response! I see you are from Westminster, I grew up right outside of there! he is on Lantus right now. I'm going to do a curve when I am home one weekend so I can really get a sense of where he is through out the day and see how long the insulin is in his system and how low it takes him. I'm also going to go and buy some over the counter wet food Thanks again!

 

[Melissa & Tiger]

I'm sure others will weigh in but I'll start. You've definitely come to the right place. There's a wealth of experience here and we've all been where you are - lost, confused and overwhelmed. It will get easier and you'll find a lot of support on this forum. I'll answer your questions as you've presented them:

1. Yes, we recommend testing blood glucose before every injection to see if the dose is safe - ie., not too high. Kitties throw curve balls at us all the time. Whenever possible, we also recommend doing some mid cycle (the 12 hours between doses) tests to see how low the insulin takes your cat. BTW, which insulin are you using. There are differences in the way they act.

2. Are you using a pet glucose meter or a human meter? There are different cutoff values for "no shot". Pet meters tend to read higher than human meters and give results closer to what the vet would measure. The test strips are very expensive though so many people use a human meter from Walmart (the ReLion type) which has much cheaper strips. A reading of 250 is a good conservative cutoff for deciding when to withhold a dose. As you get to know Tiger's responses better you might be able to lower the cutoff number.

3. There is absolutely no need to buy expensive prescription food. Many of us feed grocery store brands of canned food like Friskies and Fancy Feast, pate style only. The gravy types are too high in carbs. Wet food is best and if you're planning to change food it's always best to transition slowly over several days.

4. Unregulated diabetic kitties are always hungry because they aren't able to use properly metabolize food. Vets often recommend feeding only twice a day but many people here feed 3+ meals a day and some use automated pet feeders to give overnight meals. Some cats' blood glucose is reactive to meal timing but not all.

Thank you for the response! He is on Lantus right now, I don't know too much about it so I think I'll head over to the insulin specific forum he has the specific pet glucose meter and after I read your message I looked up the price of the strips. Wow they aren't cheap! I want to feed him a little snack before bed to hold him over longer during the night but am afraid that may mess with his levels. Maybe I'll take a reading one night after eating the snack and another on a night I don't give the snack to see if there is a big change. That will help me feel better about breaking up his feeding times

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Restricting feeds to only two meals per day to coincide with shots is old fashioned advice for old fashioned harsh insulins. Lantus is a gentle long lasting insulin. Most people using lantus feed smaller frequent meals in the early part of the cycle - a timed feeder is likely to become your favourite appliance Smaller meals put less stress on the pancreas. With lantus onset of the insulin is usually around +2 hours after the shot with nadir falling between +5 to +7 in most cats most of the time. Many people like to get all the mini meals for the cycle finished before nadir so that the kitty isn't feeding while the insulin is starting to wane but there are others (myself included) that let lantus kitties free feed (if they aren't gutses or overweight) and just remove the food two hours before shot time so as to make sure the preshot test isn't food influenced so you know that it's safe to shoot.

 

[Melissa & Tiger]

Restricting feeds to only two meals per day to coincide with shots is old fashioned advice for old fashioned harsh insulins. Lantus is a gentle long lasting insulin. Most people using lantus feed smaller frequent meals in the early part of the cycle - a timed feeder is likely to become your favourite appliance Smaller meals put less stress on the pancreas. With lantus onset of the insulin is usually around +2 hours after the shot with nadir falling between +5 to +7 in most cats most of the time. Many people like to get all the mini meals for the cycle finished before nadir so that the kitty isn't feeding while the insulin is starting to wane but there are others (myself included) that let lantus kitties free feed (if they aren't gutses or overweight) and just remove the food two hours before shot time so as to make sure the preshot test isn't food influenced so you know that it's safe to shoot.

Thank you for replying, so happy to hear that multiple meals works well with Lantus. My guy is literally always hungry. It's like his life revolves around his next meal these days. So right now he is getting his feeding and injections around 5am and 5pm. I'm hoping to get it later to around 6 (he starts to wake me up for food around 430am lately) so I'm hoping that by giving small meals through the day he will feel fuller longer and I can push back those feeding times. The only tough thing is I work during the day mon-fri. I was thinking I could maybe just split up his dinner time meal. If he is getting injection at 5 what time would you recommend another small meal. 2+ hours after but no more then 5+? I was hoping snacks would help as well and have tried the freeze dried ones but sadly he doesn't seem a fan

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

If he is getting injection at 5 what time would you recommend another small meal. 2+ hours after but no more then 5+?

That would be fine.....You might want to consider getting one of these PetSafe 5 Auto-feeders too...You can program them to open while you're at work and offer a mid-day meal and then again later on in the night to help hold him until morning. They've saved the sanity of a lot of people here!

Some cats can eat all the way up to +10 without problems, but some do better if they have most of their food before nadir (whenever that ends up for Tiger)...but generally before +6 ...It's one of those ECID things (Every Cat Is Different)

It will really help if you'll get our spreadsheet started and start keeping track of the test results you get on Tiger. It really is one of our best tools and everyone here will want to see how Tiger is doing before being able to give you the best advice moving forward. Here are the Instructions for getting the FDMB spreadsheet. If you have any problems, let us know!

Look forward to seeing you and Tiger around the Lantus forum!!

Edited to add...if you're working full time, you might want to read up on "Can Tight Regulation be done with a full time job?". Even if you decide not to use Tight Regulation, there's lots of good ideas for dealing with a sugarcat and working at the same time

 

[Callie & Patches]

I printed off a copy of Callie's spreadsheet to my vet. She liked it so much that she has all her DF patients send her their SS once a week .

 

[Melissa & Tiger]

That would be fine.....You might want to consider getting one of these PetSafe 5 Auto-feeders too...You can program them to open while you're at work and offer a mid-day meal and then again later on in the night to help hold him until morning. They've saved the sanity of a lot of people here!

Some cats can eat all the way up to +10 without problems, but some do better if they have most of their food before nadir (whenever that ends up for Tiger)...but generally before +6 ...It's one of those ECID things (Every Cat Is Different)

It will really help if you'll get our spreadsheet started and start keeping track of the test results you get on Tiger. It really is one of our best tools and everyone here will want to see how Tiger is doing before being able to give you the best advice moving forward. Here are the Instructions for getting the FDMB spreadsheet. If you have any problems, let us know!

Look forward to seeing you and Tiger around the Lantus forum!!

Edited to add...if you're working full time, you might want to read up on "Can Tight Regulation be done with a full time job?". Even if you decide not to use Tight Regulation, there's lots of good ideas for dealing with a sugarcat and working at the same time

Thank you! I will work on a spread sheet for tiger so as to better see where his peaks and falls are so that I can give mini meals at appropriate times. Definitely going to look into one of those feeders as well! Great that they work with canned food!

 

[baxtermama]

Your story sounds exactly like mine.

Definitely get a home reader! We blindly administered Lantus for about 7 months and then Baxter had another crisis that left him in an hospital for about a week. The moment we got home we read everything we could about meters, glucose levels and created a chart that the FAQ has set up for us. After a few weeks/months of readings I now feel so much more comfortable about all of this.

I had some same issues with readings being ALL over the place when I had Baxter on the prescription dry food. Nix it and go for some wet food, something in a pate style with very little gravy... you'll almost immediately see results in consistent numbers. It REALLY helps and it's much cheaper!

xx