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Rob c

Rob c

Member Since 2024
Hello people I’m so glad I found this form and I’m really hoping that you can help me with our queen Gabby. Gabby is 19 years old. She was diagnosed two years ago with a mass cell tumor which is now been under control for two years this past March, she was diagnosed with a combination of thyroid disease as well as diabetes. Thankfully, the thyroid disease is also under control. The diabetes has been an absolute pain in the butt, when Gabby was diagnosed in March 2023, she was a healthy 10 1/2 pounds. Our vet initially put us on that swollen and for nine months we’ve battled high and low carbs and watched Gabby‘s weight decrease where she’s currently only 5 pounds for a while. I have been begging to try something different like Lantus and finally, I decided to make my own decision. She has been on Lantis for about three weeks now and I’ve been encouraged with the reaction she’s had as well as the nice gradual curves. We have been going between a half a unit and one unit to try to find what unit makes the most sense and so far we haven’t regulated it today. However, she’s having a really bad day, we actually have on her one of the freestyle libre sensor monitors so I’m able to get a constant check of her numbers today. Her curves been bouncing up and down constantly with no consistency. It’s beating the crap out of her. Sometimes I will bring her in to get her some fluids but recently one day we gave her fluids. It made her sugar levels crash, so I’m always concerned about bringing her fluids when I’m not sure where her sugar level is. I would love to bring her for fluids today, but with her numbers going up and down I’m not sure if it’s the right thing to do , can anybody tell me why her car is bouncing all over the place today it’s never done this I will give her her dosage of insulin in about six hours and I’m debating whether to give her the same amount which was one unit or decrease it. Diabetes has been the most challenging disease I’ve ever had to deal with with my cats it’s horrible. I hate it but we love Gabby I’m gonna do everything we can to keep her alive. Any help here would be appreciated. I have attached a picture of the graph curve that I am getting today with her insulin hopefully som some suggestions. Thank you.
 
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Welcome to FDMB. Gabby’s story is not unusual. Bouncing is quite normal. I’m glad you got her switched to Lantus as it is a much gentler insulin. There are members here who also use the Freestyle Libre and I believe they note that it can run lower at low numbers so if you can test her with a handheld human meter when she’s lower on the Libre, that will help.

So she is hyperthyroid and on felimazole? Why is she getting fluids? Does she have CKD and, if so, what stage is she in? Once you get the Spreadsheet up, there is a Labs tab that you can load her labs which will also help us.

We strongly recommend a low carb canned diet and there are many tools in the Health FAQ part of this board which have information on foods. What, how often, and how much are you feeding her?

In order for us to help you with Gabby’s dose and regulation, it would be great if we could see her BGs on our spreadsheet. Here are the documents you need to do it and understand it. If you need any help, please let me know and I can assist you.
How to Create A Spreadsheet

How to Use the Spreadsheet

And in order to get you used to the board, it might be good if you can read this post.

I’ll check back in a bit to see your responses and see if you need help with the spreadsheet, etc. Once we can see what she’s doing, it will help. BTW, you don’t need to enter every BG from the Libre; it would be helpful to have her preshot values (AMPS and PMPS) and three or four BGs per cycle especially the lowest numbers. Also, you don’t need to go all the way back to March. If you can even start doing BGs just from January or, if you put her on Lantus after January 1, 2024 then just from when she started Lantus.

Thank you and welcome, again.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Welcome to FDMB. Gabby’s story is not unusual. Bouncing is quite normal. I’m glad you got her switched to Lantus as it is a much gentler insulin. There are members here who also use the Freestyle Libre and I believe they note that it can run lower at low numbers so if you can test her with a handheld human meter when she’s lower on the Libre, that will help.

So she is hyperthyroid and on felimazole? Why is she getting fluids? Does she have CKD and, if so, what stage is she in? Once you get the Spreadsheet up, there is a Labs tab that you can load her labs which will also help us.

We strongly recommend a low carb canned diet and there are many tools in the Health FAQ part of this board which have information on foods. What, how often, and how much are you feeding her?

In order for us to help you with Gabby’s dose and regulation, it would be great if we could see her BGs on our spreadsheet. Here are the documents you need to do it and understand it. If you need any help, please let me know and I can assist you.
How to Create A Spreadsheet

How to Use the Spreadsheet

And in order to get you used to the board, it might be good if you can read this post.

I’ll check back in a bit to see your responses and see if you need help with the spreadsheet, etc. Once we can see what she’s doing, it will help. BTW, you don’t need to enter every BG from the Libre; it would be helpful to have her preshot values (AMPS and PMPS) and three or four BGs per cycle especially the lowest numbers. Also, you don’t need to go all the way back to March. If you can even start doing BGs just from January or, if you put her on Lantus after January 1, 2024 then just from when she started Lantus.

Thank you and welcome, again.
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Thank you so much for your response. So Gabby is in chronic kidney failure and that is why she gets fluids as she does get dehydrated quite often. we give her fluids on an average of three to maybe four times a week. She’s very skinny now so the fluids definitely help her and it gives her a better frame of mind and disposition. Unfortunately, I have had a couple of occasions where I have to give her fluids and her numbers droppped really low very fast to the point a was afraid she was going hypoglycemic and have her some Karo syrup. It went below 50 on the libre. From what I’ve been told the number you get on the libre you need to add about 20 to them to get a number for Cat. Tonight as I mentioned in my prior thread, her numbers have been bouncing around but sorta stabilized from 2-5pm. I normally give her insulin around 6 PM which is now. Her numbers have been in a in the mid to low 200s for the last few hours dropping to his low as 125. Currently her unit number is about 215. Normally when I give her insulin I wait till her dosage is in the 300s or more level so that I know I can give her her regular dosage so that she doesn’t shoot too low. With it being lower now I’m concerned if I give her the same 1unit it might drive her too low. Probably will give her just have a half unit tonight just to play it safe. She is on a mainly wet can high-protein low-carb diet. I have research many manufacturers to see which ones make the higher protein lower carb foods. Sometimes though I just give her what she wants. We have a lot of those squeezable treats which are mainly protein which she does enjoy. I will take a look at your spreadsheet to try to figure them out and do the best I can. I appreciate all your help in this matter, as this is very challenging for me, and I’m learning a lot, but the best thing is to give her as much health and happiness as possible. As she’s the queen of the household!
 
Hello and welcome. Appreciate the details on Miss Gabby as it does help us help you. In order to not have to repeat yourself, you might want to consider putting some details in your signature. Information on what can be helpful in this post:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
Rob c said:
t went below 50 on the libre. From what I’ve been told the number you get on the libre you need to add about 20 to them to get a number for Cat.
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We've had multiple people use Libre and cross with with human blood glucose meter testing, and seen no such correlation. We have one member who has seen the human meter at least 50 points higher, though that seems higher than others. A pet meter would be even higher still.
 
Rob c said:
Thank you so much for your response. So Gabby is in chronic kidney failure and that is why she gets fluids as she does get dehydrated quite often. we give her fluids on an average of three to maybe four times a week. She’s very skinny now so the fluids definitely help her and it gives her a better frame of mind and disposition. Unfortunately, I have had a couple of occasions where I have to give her fluids and her numbers droppped really low very fast to the point a was afraid she was going hypoglycemic and have her some Karo syrup. It went below 50 on the libre. From what I’ve been told the number you get on the libre you need to add about 20 to them to get a number for Cat. Tonight as I mentioned in my prior thread, her numbers have been bouncing around but sorta stabilized from 2-5pm. I normally give her insulin around 6 PM which is now. Her numbers have been in a in the mid to low 200s for the last few hours dropping to his low as 125. Currently her unit number is about 215. Normally when I give her insulin I wait till her dosage is in the 300s or more level so that I know I can give her her regular dosage so that she doesn’t shoot too low. With it being lower now I’m concerned if I give her the same 1unit it might drive her too low. Probably will give her just have a half unit tonight just to play it safe. She is on a mainly wet can high-protein low-carb diet. I have research many manufacturers to see which ones make the higher protein lower carb foods. Sometimes though I just give her what she wants. We have a lot of those squeezable treats which are mainly protein which she does enjoy. I will take a look at your spreadsheet to try to figure them out and do the best I can. I appreciate all your help in this matter, as this is very challenging for me, and I’m learning a lot, but the best thing is to give her as much health and happiness as possible. As she’s the queen of the household!
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We have noticed that the BG will drop in some cats after receiving fluids. It happened to my kitty. It’s best to try and give fluids as the BG is headed up, often at the end of the cycle.

Thank you......the spreadsheet will be very helpful. Please be sure and see Wendy’s remark that there is no equivalent from a Libre to a human meter even using the same devices on the same cat.
 
I’m curious do they make pet meters? I do have the alpha tracks testing kit the most up-to-date one it’s just very hard to get blood from her ear and I don’t want to hurt her which is why we don’t test her that way that often because we don’t want to hurt her that’s why we use it’s a libre. At least I can keep an estimated close track on her numbers.
 
Rob c said:
I’m curious do they make pet meters? I do have the alpha tracks testing kit the most up-to-date one it’s just very hard to get blood from her ear and I don’t want to hurt her which is why we don’t test her that way that often because we don’t want to hurt her that’s why we use it’s a libre. At least I can keep an estimated close track on her numbers.
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Today has been very interesting. This morning when we were about to give her her insulin, her reading was around 90 on the libre which is really low. I cut back her insulin to 1/2 unit last evening and the numbers stayed in a good zone most of the night. I chose not to give her insulin this morning. And so far six hours later it seems her numbers have still been in the good range. is it possible she could be getting into remission at this late stage? I’m afraid to give her any kind of insulin when her numbers are low as I don’t want her to go into a hypoglycemic state.
 
Rob c said:
Today has been very interesting. This morning when we were about to give her her insulin, her reading was around 90 on the libre which is really low. I cut back her insulin to 1/2 unit last evening and the numbers stayed in a good zone most of the night. I chose not to give her insulin this morning. And so far six hours later it seems her numbers have still been in the good range. is it possible she could be getting into remission at this late stage? I’m afraid to give her any kind of insulin when her numbers are low as I don’t want her to go into a hypoglycemic state.
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One last question I have given her fructosomine tests in the past and the last one which was a few months ago. The doctor was impressed by her numbers. This was prior to us changing her insulin. Do you recommend another fructosamine test now that she’s been on the lantus for about 3 1/2 weeks?
 
Frustration … took Gabby to the vet this afternoon to check to see if the app number was accurate or not. Was frustrated see that when the app was saying 177 her BG was actually 415! The app must’ve gotten defective . So frustrating to think that I thought she was in a good zone when she wasn’t I guess that explains why you guys say the old fashion tests are the best way.
 
Rob c said:
I’m curious do they make pet meters? I do have the alpha tracks testing kit the most up-to-date one it’s just very hard to get blood from her ear and I don’t want to hurt her which is why we don’t test her that way that often because we don’t want to hurt her that’s why we use it’s a libre. At least I can keep an estimated close track on her numbers.
Click to expand...
There are pet meters but they and the strips are very expensive; also our dosing methods (SLGS and Tight Regulation) are done based on human meters. So it you get a handheld meter, I’d strongly suggest you get a human one. Many members use human ReliOn meters from Walmart. Look for the one that requires the least amount of blood for the sample. If you are going to continue to use the Libre and just double check with a meter, it’s also best to get a human one because that SS is set up for human BGs. Here are some Testing and Shooting Tips that might help you.

If you decide to remove the Libre and just go with the AT, I can convert any SS you have done to formatting for the AT; it’s super simple so just let me know.

Rob c said:
Today has been very interesting. This morning when we were about to give her her insulin, her reading was around 90 on the libre which is really low. I cut back her insulin to 1/2 unit last evening and the numbers stayed in a good zone most of the night. I chose not to give her insulin this morning. And so far six hours later it seems her numbers have still been in the good range. is it possible she could be getting into remission at this late stage? I’m afraid to give her any kind of insulin when her numbers are low as I don’t want her to go into a hypoglycemic state.
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There is no way we can know about remission especially without seeing a spreadsheet. However, it is not uncommon for BGs to stay low for a bit after you have reduced the dose or skipped a shot because Lantus is a depot insulin. That means shots are cumulative and can also continue to affect 1-6 cycles after the dose has been changed or a shot skipped (usually after a skipped shot, the BG will start up the next cycle but sometimes not especially if you shoot the very next cycle).

Rob c said:
One last question I have given her fructosomine tests in the past and the last one which was a few months ago. The doctor was impressed by her numbers. This was prior to us changing her insulin. Do you recommend another fructosamine test now that she’s been on the lantus for about 3 1/2 weeks?
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With the Libre or a hand held glucometer, you have much more recent and accurate data than a fructosamine test would give you so, no, do not waste your money on a fructosamine test.

Rob c said:
Frustration … took Gabby to the vet this afternoon to check to see if the app number was accurate or not. Was frustrated see that when the app was saying 177 her BG was actually 415! The app must’ve gotten defective . So frustrating to think that I thought she was in a good zone when she wasn’t I guess that explains why you guys say the old fashion tests are the best way.
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Yes, we’ve heard this before. Most cats will adjust to having their ear poked especially once the ear acclimates to it. It learns to bleed quickly with a smaller gauge lancet (31g whereas most new members need a 28g to first get the ear to bleed).

We will really need to see a spreadsheet if you want any dosing advice; we just don’t give dosing advice without one because it’s too dangerous to do so. There are patterns that we can see with a SS that are difficult to discern otherwise and I guarantee your vet won’t pick up on them.

One last thing is weight loss is uncommon in a cat receiving insulin because at least their pancreas is getting some support. They usually stay stable and will start gaining weight as the correct dose is approached. However, it is very, very common for a cat with CKD to lose alot of weight as they lose muscle mass.

Fluids only help with hydration and not with weight gain. Anyone that is dehydrated is going to feel worse than when they are hydrated and dehydration is common in CKD cats.
 
I use the freestyle libre 3 sensor. I know it’s not perfect but the numbers are usually fairly close to what’s going on of course at the time is senses defect or break and you have to get another one which is extremely frustrating as they’re $50 every time I purchase one you’re supposed to last for two weeks but I hardly ever do.
 
Rob c said:
I use the freestyle libre 3 sensor. I know it’s not perfect but the numbers are usually fairly close to what’s going on of course at the time is senses defect or break and you have to get another one which is extremely frustrating as they’re $50 every time I purchase one you’re supposed to last for two weeks but I hardly ever do.
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Have you joined the Freestyle Libre for Dogs and Cats FB group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2894089194158745


I use the Libre 3 (now, used the Libre 14a Day and then the Libre 2) and get 14 days out of the 3. I also show that at low BGs the Libre is lower than earstick w/Human Relion meter, Like Libre 53 and earstick 87. At High BG the Libre can be 100 higher than earstick.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Have you joined the Freestyle Libre for Dogs and Cats FB group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2894089194158745


I use the Libre 3 (now, used the Libre 14a Day and then the Libre 2) and get 14 days out of the 3. I also show that at low BGs the Libre is lower than earstick w/Human Relion meter, Like Libre 53 and earstick 87. At High BG the Libre can be 100 higher than earstick.
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It says here that this link is not valid so maybe the link is not working I am not on social media, but I would certainly tell my wife to join the Facebook group. Maybe check your link again thank you.
 
You may have to be a FB member. When I click on the link I it takes me to the group. It is a closed group so when you go to it you go to a landing pak thatg has button to ask to join.
 
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