New here- have questions

[Nani]

Hi! I have a 12 year old cat who has diabetes. This website is super helpful, but I’m having trouble finding information outside of it.

I am new to this site and I have a question about the insulin depot. I am having a hard time finding any research on this pertaining to cats. It looks like the one linked in the other forums is a study done on humans? I could be wrong, but just want to have a little more background on this for myself.

Also, I am curious about advice others receive from their vets. Does your vet give you a range- for example: 150-300 give x amount of units and anything higher give a different dose? How often do you take your cats in to the vet? I have been going every 3 months if everything is going well & if I send my vet my cats BG spot checks via email intermittently to see if we need to make any changes.

Thanks for your feedback! Just curious about other people’s experiences

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Welcome first we need you to set up what's called you signature, info about Nani in order for members to help you
For your signature

Go all the way up top to you name tap on it and a drop box will appear , you will see the word signature, tap that and just add all your information about Nani and hit save.
If you are still having trouble setting things up we can have someone help you just ask
Take a look at my signature all about Tyler all signatures are at the end of everyone's posts in gray

Add info we need to help you:

• Caregiver & kitty's name
• DX: Date
• Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
• Name of your meter
• Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
• Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
• DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
• Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
• Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of yoursignature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Does your vet give you a range- for example: 150-300 give x amount of units and anything higher give a different dose? H

Dose is based on the nadir how low the insulin is dropping your kitty, not the pre shot
Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:

• Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
• Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
• Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

We also use a spreadsheet that we use to track our cats BG
It would be a good idea and set one up in case you need help with dosing,we need to see this in order to give advice. If you have trouble setting it up just ask as we have someone that will set it up for you just ask

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

 

[Nani]

Dose is based on the nadir how low the insulin is dropping your kitty, not the pre shot
Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:

• Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
• Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
• Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose

We also use a spreadsheet that we use to track our cats BG
It would be a good idea and set one up in case you need help with dosing,we need to see this in order to give advice. If you have trouble setting it up just ask as we have someone that will set it up for you just ask

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

Thanks for the speedy reply with this info. Looks like the references on this website are mostly related to humans or deceased pigs. Do you happen to know of any articles pertaining to felines?

 

[Nani]

We also use a spreadsheet that we use to track our cats BG
It would be a good idea and set one up in case you need help with dosing,we need to see this in order to give advice. If you have trouble setting it up just ask as we have someone that will set it up for you just ask

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

just out of curiosity are there veterinarians on this forum who will give me advice on changing up the dosing for my cat?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thanks for the speedy reply with this info. Looks like the references on this website are mostly related to humans or deceased pigs. Do you happen to know of any articles pertaining to felines?

I'm sorry I don't know what you mean

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

just out of curiosity are there veterinarians on this forum who will give me advice on changing up the dosing for my cat?

No there aren't, but I will tell you one thing the members here know more about diabetes than most vets do. We have a lot of experienced members here with 30 years of experience, if it wasn't for the members here giving me advice Tyler would not be in remission today

 

[Nani]

I'm sorry I don't know what you mean

I was hoping someone would have insight to information that pertains to felines. While the website you sent me talks about cats, all of the references listed are articles talking about humans or pigs. So it’s like the article took

No there aren't, but I will tell you one thing the members here know more about diabetes than most vets do. We have a lot of experienced members here with 30 years of experience, if it wasn't for the members here giving me advice Tyler would not be in remission today

As a medical professional, it is incredibly dangerous to give information to people about such a powerful medication via the internet. I think it’s great that there are so many people here willing to give their advise to others. As someone whose cat has been in remission I understand what a relief that is. So happy for you and Tyler!

I wish this website had articles that pertain to felines. The website you sent me is only cited by professionals who work with humans or pigs. It’s like the author took those articles about different species of animals and twisted it to make the reader think actual research has been done on felines. This is so important because most species of animals are not able to achieve diabetic remission. Which is why I am hoping for actual research that has been done on felines

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I wish this website had articles that pertain to felines. The website you sent me is only cited by professionals who work with humans or pigs. It’s like the author took those articles about different species of animals and twisted

Can you show me that link? The only link I gave you was how to set up a spreadsheet

 

[Nani]

Can you show me that link?

https://petdiabetes.fandom.com/wiki/Peak

if you go to the bottom of the article you can many references. I was unable to find any that were evidence based research on felines

 

[Nani]

https://petdiabetes.fandom.com/wiki/Duration
this one may be more helpful. It the the website associated to the terms you linked above

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

https://petdiabetes.fandom.com/wiki/Peak

if you go to the bottom of the article you can many references. I was unable to find any that were evidence based research on felines

I went to the bottom and can't find where you say they are talking about humans and pigs
I only gave you the link to set up a spreadsheet
I never gave you this link
Did you get this link from our site?

 

[Nani]

I went to the bottom and can't fund where you say they are talking about humans and pigs
I only gave you the link to set up a spreadsheet
Did you get this link from our site?

yes if you click on the

Dose is based on the nadir how low the insulin is dropping your kitty, not the pre shot
Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:

• Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
• Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
• Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose

if you click on the word duration above it takes you to the website which created the term, and at the bottom there should be the references

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

yes if you click on the


if you click on the word duration above it takes you to the website which created the term, and at the bottom there should be the references

OK, To be honest with you I have never read this, I only gave you
Onset, Nadir and Duration to show you how we base dose changes on which is Nadir , not the Pre Shots


Sorry I can't be of much more help
You had asked above if there were any vets here to give you advice about changing up the dosing for your cat
Even if a vet was a member here I doubt they would give you any advise on doses, without seeing a spreadsheet with a lot of data on it to see how the insulin is working, whatever insulin you cat is on

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Does your vet give you a range- for example: 150-300 give x amount of units and anything higher give a different dose?

This doesn't work at all
If you're not happy with your vet maybe you should find a new one
There have been many members here that took the advice from a vet about doses and almost killed their cats
I trust the members here 100%

 

[Nani]

This doesn't work at all
If you're not happy with your vet maybe you should find a new one
There have been many members here that took the advice from a vet about doses and almost killed their cats
I trust the members here 100%

I have an amazing vet who I work very closely with. Im just discouraged that the information people are giving other has never been researched or validated by veterinarians. If you go to the home page of the website and click on diabetes monitor who gave them four stars it goes to a car insurance website? And if you click on the feline out reach who recognized the website… that group dissolved in 2011. So where is everyone getting the information? Nothing that is talked about on this forum has any medical data to back it up.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

I have an amazing vet who I work very closely with. Im just discouraged that the information people are giving other has never been researched or validated by veterinarians. If you go to the home page of the website and click on diabetes monitor who gave them four stars it goes to a car insurance website? And if you click on the feline out reach who recognized the website… that group dissolved in 2011. So where is everyone getting the information? Nothing that is talked about on this forum has any medical data to back it up.

Hi and welcome There are actually several scientific sources that are used to support most of the information given here. Here’s some links to a few

AAHA Guidelines

ISFM Guidelines

Lantus TR protocol

If you check out this sticky in the Lantus forum there are several other links that you may find useful.

As for your specific question about the depot and it’s application in cats, I am not sure about that one so I will tag the mods and perhaps they can answer it for you

@Marje and Gracie
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Wendy&Neko

 

[Nani]

Hi and welcome There are actually several scientific sources that are used to support most of the information given here. Here’s some links to a few

AAHA Guidelines

ISFM Guidelines

Lantus TR protocol

If you check out this sticky in the Lantus forum there are several other links that you may find useful.

As for your specific question about the depot and it’s application in cats, I am not sure about that one so I will tag the mods and perhaps they can answer it for you

@Marje and Gracie
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Wendy&Neko

thanks so much!! I appreciate this information. I was only able to find scientific articles on insulin depot when studied on other species of animals. It seems like a plausible theory, but I was hoping for a little more info on it. Thanks again

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

It would be helpful to know what insulin you're using. I'm presuming either Lantus or Levemir if you are interested in information about the insulin depot.

If you do a search, there are numerous articles by Jacqui Rand, DVM who, along with Kirsten Roomp developed the tight regulation protocol for Lantus and Levemir. Quite a few of their research articles were published in the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery along with other high impact factor veterinary journals.

This site was developed over 25 years ago by Rebecca Price, MD. Rebecca has turned over the management of the board to our current webmaster. Over the. years, the moderators from this forum have been in touch with Drs. Rand and Roomp. I believe the Dr. Rand has retired from the University of Queensland. Kirsten is on faculty at University of Luxembourg and developed the German equivalent of this site.

To the best of my knowledge, there is only one site that was associated with a vet -- Elizabeth Hodgkins -- who was a strong proponent for PZI and adopted the Roomp & Rand Tight Regulation Protocol for use with PZI. Hodgkins did not support intervening with higher carbohydrate food to manage low numbers and as a result, there were a number of difficulties with how her protocol was being used. Perhaps more importantly, the manufacture of PZI was discontinued in the US although is available via compounding pharmacies.

You will notice that in many of the sticky notes, we clearly state that we are not veterinarians and those using FDMB are encouraged to maintain contact with their vet. That said, we have had members who are vets and vet techs, physicians, nurses and a wide range of healthcare professionals. In the case of the vets, they came here because we have a great deal of experience with using the longer acting insulins in felines. As an example, at present there are 87 active members on the Lantus/Basaglr/Levemir insulin support group and since 2008, 479 of the caregivers on that forum have cats that have gone into remission. While we are not veterinarians, the moderators have all been here for over a decade and since I've been here (12 years), the majority of the moderators have had background in a variety of scientific and/or medically or veterinary related fields. Several of us have unrestricted access to medical and veterinary journals.

I would also note that while there are some differences in feline and human diabetes, there is also considerable overlap. I'd encourage you to not do a Google search. Pub Med will have a better yield for scientific articles although most are focused on pharmacokinetics or most recently on comparing the U100 vs U300 properties of glargine. I can appreciate your frustration in that some of the pet specific links are either of poor quality or no longer active. Along with the other moderators, we've been attempting to review all of FDMB to cull out the inactive or less useful links. Frankly, it's an endless job.

I did come across this article. In the section on glargine, Gottlieb & Rand (2018) note that glargine forms microprecipitates in the subcutaneous tissue. The precipitants can take over 24 hours to dissolve. Given the overlapping nature of the insulin cycles, this is what we refer to as the depot.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

thanks so much!! I appreciate this information. I was only able to find scientific articles on insulin depot when studied on other species of animals. It seems like a plausible theory, but I was hoping for a little more info on it. Thanks again

You might be able to find something in the Literature Cited in this article.

Have you asked your vet? We don’t have access to the VIN (veterinary information network) but your vet could do some research there regarding the action of the insulin depot in felines.