New Here - Cat with Pancreatits and now diabetes:(

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jmason7

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Hi -
This is my 1st time posting - I have a 13yr old cat that was diagnosed with pancreatits 7yrs ago. He almost died a couple of times but thankfully has been stable for the past 6yrs - we always feed him Hills C/D seafood wet and dry food and includes enzymes in the wet food 2x a day.. Well, he was just diagnosed with diabetes and we are in the process of changing him over to W/D Hills dry food with the C/D wet just before he gets his insulin shots 2x day. I have been doing some reading here and it sounds like the W/D Hills isnt the best choice.. Anybody out there with a pancreatic cat with some better food suggestions? I hate to change him over again because the pancreatitis seems to flare up with any changes in his environment ( food, stress, etc) so I feel like I am just holding my breath hoping he accepts the food change. He has been on insulin (2 cc) 2x per day for about 1 week now but I don't see much change - seems like still urinating alot and I found a pee spot outside the litter box yesterday and today :( WE take him back next week for another vet check but would like some input. I don't care if I have to cook the food myself - we have done so much for this cat over the years and he is our family but trying to keep the pancreatitis in check while getting the diabetes under control. Any advice would be great! Thanks
 
Welcome to FDMB -
for an excellent feline nutrition resource, check out www.catinfo.org - this is published by a veterinarian. For diabetics, we recommend grain free, low carbohydrate canned or raw food with 10% or less carbohydrates. With a history of pancreatitis, you may also want to aim for lower fat content. Google Janet & Binky's Food Charts for detailed protein/carbs/fat data for many canned and dry foods. The labels don't have enough detail on them, and Janet & Binky's data were gathered by many people over the years.

please learn how to test blood sugar at home -- it is the best way to gain control over the diabetes and get your kitty feeling better.

2 units may be too much - we recommend starting at 1 unit 2x per day and checking blood sugar at shot time and a couple more times per day - usually +6 hours after the shot. We have an international membership across many different time zones, so we note times as AMPS, PMPS and +1, +2 etc for morning "pre-shot" test, evening pre-shot test and then how many hours after injection the blood sugar test was taken.

My cat Tiggy only needs 0.5 units 2x per day to maintain good control of blood sugar. We have a saying "Every Cat Is Different" (ECID), so it is possible that your kitty needs more - but it is safer to start at a lower dose and work up methodically than to start to high and risk HYPOGLYCEMIA (low blood sugar from insulin overdose that can cause seizures, blindness and death -- please study the signs and treatment!!!)

too much insulin CAN cause high blood sugar numbers due to "rebound", where the liver produces sugar to absorb the overdose of insulin.

This is why it is important to learn to check your kitty's blood sugar every day at home.

by the way, a "cc" is = 100 units of insulin -- you are probably giving 2 "units" or 0.02 cc.

phoebe
 
Hi and welcome!

What type of insulin did the vet prescribe?
The link that phobe gave you to Dr. Lisa's site has info on making your own food since you mentioned being willing and able to do that...
Here is a link to the food charts she mentioned as well.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html
Carl
 
Hi - welcome.

I think your best bet for both health issues is raw food. The best diet for any cat, with any health issue, is low carb, high protein, wet food.

There are canned foods that fit that bill, but any canned food is going to be a compromise on nutrition to some degree. I mix Wellness canned with PetSmart's Great Choice canned - and then add supplements, including digestive enzymes, a probiotic, and water to it. But Wellness is high in fat, so may not be good for your cat. I would feed all raw if I could afford it.

One of mine, Beau, had chronic pancreatits, diagnosed when he was 3. He was dx with cardiomyopathy at the same time and almost died. He had p-titis flares on and off for 5 years before being dx with diabetes. After five years of wear and tear on his pancreas, I was expecting diabetes because no one told me there were other things I could do to support him nutritionally. After his diabetes dx, I changed his diet to canned low carb and got rid of all dry. I had been feeding one that was loaded with fillers that probably irritated his system and contributed to p-titis. He is diet controlled now and has not had any p-titis flares in three years. He will be 14 in August.

What I feed now is the best I can afford. Wellness is a high quality protein and had no grains in it. The Great Choice is lower quality proteins, but doesn't have wheat, corn or soy in it. I really think there is no good prescription food. If you read the ingredients they are all by-products, organ meats and fillers and not that high in protein. For the money you spend on that food you can probably buy raw food.

You are doing so much for him already, that I hope you can add home testing his blood sugar as soon as possible. Diabetes is a home managed disease no matter what species you are talking about. A pediatrician would not tell you to shoot insulin into your child without testing its blood first for very real safety reasons. A cat needs testing for the same reasons. I NEVER give insulin without knowing what my cat's blood sugar is. Get a human meter and test strips. The expensive part is the test strips so price your meter based on that. Walmart's Relion meter is one of the cheapest and has good ratings. (I am NOT a fan of Walmart, but they do have a good product). I use a Bayer Contour meter.

Let us know what insulin you were given. Starting dose should be no more than 1u twice a day. Cats are not dosed by weight. Also, what was his blood sugar at the vet when he was diagnosed?
 
Pancreatitis coupled with diabetes is a bugger. Diet is key with both. More than likely it is the grains in the C/D, especially the dry, which have resulted in the diabetes development, unless he has received steroids for the pancreatitis. The first ingredient is Brewer's Rice, the second is corn gluten meal. Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they need meat. Their system cannot properly process grains, yet pet food companies like Hill's convince people and vets that theirs is the best food. The best food is what cats were meant to eat - small mammals and birds.

I feed the next best thing - a raw food diet. Dr. Lisa has a great recipe or if you don't want to go to the trouble, there is a great company named Feline's Pride which sells it online. Their food is not cheap, but neither is Hill's. Pound for pound there is far more value in raw food. One of my cats in 20 yrs old and her only health issue is hyper-thyroid. Oh and she's lost her hearing! She always used to have a vomiting problem if she ate too much or too fast. Not on the raw food.

I was completely convinced of the value of raw food when my now passed diabetic Gandalf developed pancreatitis for the first time. He was very sick, with one of the highest fPLI readings his vets had seen, and I allowed his vet to talk me in to feeding him Hill's i/d food. He got horrible diarrhea. He wasn't eating, I had to syringe feed him. There was talk of putting in a feeding tube.

On the advice of a member here I decided to try Feline's Pride raw food. It came the very day he had a horrible diarrhea attack and was so weak he laid down in the box. I syringe fed it to him, and he had no more diarrhea. None. Within 2 days he was eating on his own and much better.

While I'm not saying it's a miracle cure, the raw food helped him somehow. There are testimonials on Feline's Pride's site from people with IBD kitties. IBD is a challenge to treat. Raw food resolves all symptoms. Those people will tell you raw food is a miracle cure.

Yes, it may be as simple as diet to help both pancreatitis and diabetes. He may need insulin for a while, but if caught early and treated correctly with a long acting insulin (either Lantus or Levemir) and diet, cats stand a very good chance of going in to remission.
 
Thanks for responding all - What a great website, I am glad I found it! The insulin that my cat was put on is ProZinc - any thoughts on this one? I think the reason that my vet start him at 2 units (2x per day) vs something lower is because his glucose was almost off the chart - I can't remember the high end of the range now (500?) .. If the high end is 500, he was at 480... I can't remember if 380 or 480 but it was really high. He had a little weakness in his back legs and I started noticing some pee outside the box which I thought was our naughty other cat :( He had bloodwork done in Sept 2011 which was normal so the diabetes came on fairly quick. I will read more about the food and the glucose testing at home from all your posts and I am sure I will have more questions later today. In the meantime, any thoughts on this brand of insulin?
 
ProZinc is one of the three insulins we suggest - it is milder and long lasting. This document on PZI is huge and full of links, but lots of good info:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

We do suggest starting low and going slow. Our idea is that if you start at one unit or less and home test, you can find out quickly if it is enough insulin or if you need to increase by slow amounts. If you start at 2 units, you run the risk of giving too much insulin and having to react to low numbers which can be dangerous.

Hometesting is the key and we would be glad to teach you how.
 
I completely understand the sad face in the title of your post. Pancreatitis sucks. My cat has it and almost died last year so I can empathize with you.

For us it has been trial and error with the food. Fancy Feast and anything with artificial flavors is out as it causes problems immediately. My vets - even the one who is ok with raw diets - said it isn't a good choice for Gus, but every cat is different and you have to find what works. For some cats, raw is good.

One of my vets has a cat with pancreatitis and keeps a smorgasbord of food on hand which is what I now do. I've figured out what works for him and what doesn't and keep a lot of different ones on hand.

By Nature caused vomiting yet I could never figure out why because the ingredients are quite good, but again, every cat reacts differently. Other cats with the same issues could eat that food and be fine.

One of the specialist put Gus on a high fiber diet that was 28% carbs and raised his BG through the roof. He said we had to treat the IBD first. Well my vets all disagreed and so did I. It wasn't a good choice for him and he was only on that food a short time. I took the time to figure out what his triggers were, but of course that can always change over time.

I keep Buprenex, cerenia and pepcid stocked in my cabinet for any flare ups. When Gus does have a flare up and his appetite begins stalling, I will go to Whole Foods and get him some chicken or turkey and cook that. My mom boiled him a chicken breast last time he had a flare up and he was more than happy to gobble that up. After a couple of days, he was fine and went back to eating his normal food.

One thing about diabetics, they have to eat in order to get insulin - even if it is just a small amount.

I hope you are able to figure out some foods that work for your kitty.
 
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