New here and not sure what to do

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dianesue54

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My 6 year old male tabby was diagnosed with diabetes in December. I have been feeding him wet low carb food since that time with an daily treat of the crunchy tarter control tidbits and I count them out. I have another cat who is not diabetic.
They both eat the same thing. I also give a handful (1/2 cup) of dry EVO food that is supposed to be the lowest carb dry food out there ( the company's claim).
His blood sugar was taken at the vets. I had taken him there of possible asthma and commented that he had been really thirsty lately. The doctor checked his skin condition and then sent him back for his blood sugar. His bs was 487. In order to get him to the vet, I had to grab hold of him and put him in the crate, but he squeezed out 3 times before I could finally lock him down. Then he goes to the vet, gets stuck in the butt with a thermometer, is taken to a back room for a chest X ray, gets shaved and then is stuck with a needle, so I thought that could have been a contributing factor.
The doctor called me the next day and told me I could put him on a special diet and insulin or put him down. So I tried the diet approach first, but a low carb diet. I am a diabetic myself and have been treating myself with diet and exercise for 3 years and remain below the threshold for treatment. I was hoping I could do the same for him.
I have taken his blood sugar 4 times since (he is not fond of the procedure) and have not gotten below 300. Tonight's reading was 344; we had clipped his nails first before we took his bs.
My concern about putting him on insulin is that during the week, I am gone 12 hours a day. Sometimes I am gone on the weekend. How would that work? How do people manage with a busy schedule? I can't change my work hours or my commute.
I would appreciate any advice people could give me.
 
Hi there

Being a diabetic yourself, and already learning to test bgs at home, you are way infront! Giving insulin twice a day is not a huge problem at all. Most insulins that we use in cats are given on a 12-12 schedule so it works pretty well for busy people and some are forgiving enough that you can tweak the schedule.

I would have questioned the diagnosis as stress can raise bgs but you have confirmed it so moving forward....a long lasting insulin like lantus or levemir or possibly prozinc PZI, sticking with the low carb canned, and testing at home is the way to go

my suggestion is to start with the fdmb faq and then come back with more info and questions.
 
I think you can get past the difficulties involved in looking after your FD tabby . In order to achieve the best possible outcome you would have to stop all dry food - obviously you understand about carbs but what you need to achieve is remission with the least intrusion to your daily schedule - no dry is an easy thing to change.

This site is very helpful and informative. Learn what you can about looking after your FD kitty with routine blood testing. Set up the spread sheet from here so you can keep track of tabby's progress and get help from others here.

Lantus or Levemir would be the best insulins if you can't get him down with diet alone. Because you work you will need to leave food out for tabby and you would need to start on a very very low dose with him - because you are not around to test him during the day Usually the mantra is start low and increase slow and this would be underlined in your case. You could plead your case on the forums for the insulin you choose and ask for help in very low dosing given your circumstances re long absences from the house.

You don't say how big tabby is? If he is over weight you might want to read the dietary pages on this site and find out how to safely bring tabby's weight down as weight loss in an FD kitty will help with the outcome.

Your vets offer of euthanising is a little hasty because if you keep calm and approach this diligently I and many others here know you can achieve success. Even with your difficult circumstances. Welcome!
 
Hi,

Welcome to FDMB. First off I am appalled that your vet would have jumped to the choice of putting down your kitty. My two cats are diabetic (one is in remission) and they are doing fine. And this is even after Fluffy was diagnosed as diabetic in 2009 after she had a severe bladder infection where she bled a ton of blood when she urinated and I rushed her to the emergency room!

I do agree with stopping all dry food. I recently did this for Fluffy and boy did that make a huge difference. I also have a busy work schedule but use PZI insulin which allows me to give the shot every 12 hours. So I give the shot in the morning when I get up (testing before I administer) and give both kitties their food (I just leave out since they like to graze). Then when I get home in the evening I test again and give insulin and food. Don't get me wrong sometimes it is not exactly 12 hours in between but it is most days (sometimes need to swing by 30 min or 1 hour). On the weekends when I have some time I try to test in between the 12 hours to get a sense for what is happening with the numbers.

It is very manageable once you get into the routine.

~Monica
 
From reading your post, it sounds like the most important factor is finding an insulin that can work with your schedule. Will you be able to give shots 12 hours apart on a consistent basis? If not, then you will need one that is flexible with respect to shot timing outside of a strict 12/12 protocol.
And you will need to solve the "gone on the weekend" dilemma.
Carl
 
I pretty much test, shoot, and feed in the morning and then go to work, and return 12 hours later to test, shoot, and feed at night. Then, I get up in the middle of the night (set alarms) for my mid-cycle testing. We use Levemir which is a 12 hour insulin. If you need to be more flexible than a shot every 12 hours, then perhaps another insulin beside Lantus or Levemir would work better for your schedule.
If I had to be gone on the weekends, then my cat would come with me. That's just the way I would do it. Others have found other family members, vet techs, or other cat sitters, that have learned to test and shoot in the beans absence.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. As answers to questions:
1. His name is 'Fatty' (that explains a lot, doesn't it? But he has lost weight)
2. His weight at the vet was 15 lbs.
3 (the unspoken question) I probably will not be returning to the vet who suggested euthanasia if I didn't do the prescription diet and insulin route. He was rather harsh and authoritarian, so I don't want to be fighting him on home testing. There is a new vet who graduated from Cornell University, so I will see what he has to offer.
I had first wanted to see what his sugar was at home and change his diet. I will continue to work on it as some of the Friskies choices I have been feeding are not the lowest carb choices. Some are the midrange varieties.
They don't always care for the pate, but as I read on the board, I will add some warm water to it to give it a little gravy and see if that is accepted more readily.
I will also practice taking his bs more. I have trouble getting blood out of his ear. I have a mini One Touch Ultra that I have designated as his meter ( so my doctor doesn't think I'm getting the readings at 344). I buy my strips off ebay 50 to 100 at a time, so that is not a problem.
The 'away on weekends' issue may have resolved itself :YMSIGH: and if not, then I can enlist the aid of my daughter to help. She does not live with me, but could come over if necessary.
I will let you know what happens and what the vet says when we go.
Thank you all. Any more tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
There will be no shortage of tips and advice if you keep posting - perhaps you should ask specific questions. My tips are to stay involved in the forum - even if it's just reading up on the information here. The new vet sounds hopeful. nailbite_smile The other one sounds way too much hard work.

What are your immediate plans for your kitty? Can you start a spread sheet so you can share the blood test numbers?

It was good to hear that you sounded more optimistic in your last post. Welcome to the site!

Marilyn
 
just a note in partial defense of the vet....at least he was honest and insisted that if you didn't treat your cat that you euthanize. Many people think that they can choose to not treat and let their cat 'quietly pass away, letting nature take its course'. Which translated means letting it starve to death. There are tons of people who do not wish to treat their cats, and for those cats, euthanization is a blessing, as hard as that may sound.

However, if you don't like him and think that there are better options then definitely pursue!
 
As hard as it is to read, what Jen said is right. My vet gave me the same two options.....hometest and treat, or PTS. It wasn't easy for her to say, or for me to hear, but it was just simple reality. So I decided to test and treat, and she helped me save Bob's life. Likewise, she would have helped me to set him "free" if that had been my choice. But it was my choice, and she just laid out the options.

Carl
 
carlinsc said:
As hard as it is to read, what Jen said is right. My vet gave me the same two options.....hometest and treat, or PTS. It wasn't easy for her to say, or for me to hear, but it was just simple reality. So I decided to test and treat, and she helped me save Bob's life. Likewise, she would have helped me to set him "free" if that had been my choice. But it was my choice, and she just laid out the options.

Carl

I guess this is true. I am spoiled. My vet was just like "you treat this of course". Then again, she kind of knew my personality at least a little and I must have been pretty easy to just hand one option. Or that might be her standard approach - make the client ASK for the other option and its less likely to happen.
 
Karen,
I think in my case it had partly to due with what she knew the cost was going to be (Bob was DKA also), and she knew I didn't have lots of cash available, but when I chose to treat, she went the extra mile and cut the price significantly for 3 days of emergency care. I love my vet.
Carl
 
carlinsc said:
Karen,
I think in my case it had partly to due with what she knew the cost was going to be (Bob was DKA also), and she knew I didn't have lots of cash available, but when I chose to treat, she went the extra mile and cut the price significantly for 3 days of emergency care. I love my vet.
Carl
Nice!
 
I just want to encourage you that this can be easier than you think right now. I was kind of in a fog and overwhelmed at first, but I've learned the ropes pretty quickly. My cat has really made a lot of progress in just over 2 weeks. My goal is remission, but we take it one day at a time. He does truly feel better! I have a busy household and don't always get every test in. But I think what I'm able to do has been useful and reassures me that we are on the right track. :-D :smile:
 
I will let you know what happens and what the vet says when we go.
Thank you all. Any more tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.

See if you can find out what insulin this vet prefers or normally prescribes.
Have you seen Binky's food charts? I used the FF classics with Bob, and they are all listed on the "old chart". Most of them are 5% or less.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

It is important that you feel that you and the vet can work together. So go with the new one if you feel that would be best for you and Fatty.
Here's another link, in case you haven't visited Dr. Pierson's site, that has a ton of information on feline nutrition and diabetes:
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

Please let us know how the vet visit goes!
Carl
 
kim and simon said:
I just want to encourage you that this can be easier than you think right now. I was kind of in a fog and overwhelmed at first, but I've learned the ropes pretty quickly. My cat has really made a lot of progress in just over 2 weeks. My goal is remission, but we take it one day at a time. He does truly feel better! I have a busy household and don't always get every test in. But I think what I'm able to do has been useful and reassures me that we are on the right track. :-D :smile:

Hi DianneSue and Fatty! I just wanted to second what kim said, and welcome you; this site has kept me sane for the past few weeks. And there's lots of useful information and helpful people too.
 
I have an appointment on the 3rd. I was overwhelmed when he said that. Being a diabetic myself I realize it means a change in the world as we know it. Plus the cost involved of the initial hospitalization. Since I control with diet and exercise, I wanted to see where that got us first. The one good thing is that we can share strips. And I do suppose he gets people who don't want to do anything, a path I certainly wouldn't take.
The new vet is younger, from a top vet school and being new in town, cheaper. Those were my motivating factors.
Both cats are fed Friskies and I am moving to the lower carb varieties, some were a little higher than ideal. I have to find the topic on taking blood samples, since my tries so far have ticked him off, probably raising his bs too. I want to have him comfortable with the process before we start insulin and have to add a shot.
The one interesting thing is that once I got him off dry food ( and I was feeding a good quality I thought, Blue Buffalo, but still too high in carbs) the asthma symptoms that sent us to the vet in the first place have disappeared, so maybe it was the dehydration from the diabetes that was causing it. His coat is in better condition also.
I will start a spreadsheet once i get situated with the whole process. I only have 4 bs reading right now beside the initial one and all were in the 300's - the lowest was 334, but as I said, it ticks him off and he's trying to escape so the whole fight or flight thing is gearing up as I draw the blood.I want him like that cat in the youtube video that's purring in his person's lap while he's being stuck with a needle. I am not suppose to prick the vein right? Just run the lancet along side it? I have trouble getting blood.
Thank you all for your help. If you know offhand the location of the posts for taking blood, that would be great. Otherwise, I will start scanning the posts for tips.
 
Thanks! I looked at a few and found out what I was doing wrong. For some reason in another video it looked like the lancet was being stuck in laterally along the edge of the ear. Now I know it is just a stick like I do every day. the trick will be be to get it the correct depth. Took it tonight, he was't as squirmy, had him in my lap on his back and feeding him dehydrated chicken pieces while I prepped him. He was still making feeble attempts to escape because it was all so suspicious and his reading was 377. I'm hoping with practice he won't try to get away and maybe I can get some different readings. But then we went a played with the feathered stick and he forgave me. I wanted to try and post a picture, but couldn't figure that out. The only thing I found was an avatar, but the picture had to be so small as to be unrecognizable. 9KB?
 
Always, give treats and lovings, during and after each test, whether successful or not.
My kitty comes running (well, he's 17, so he walks) when he hears the test kit being opened. Your kitty can too. Lots of praise and skritches, calmness, before and during, and lovings, and treats, and praise afterwards.. always. Does that make sense?
P.S., my cat doesn't even seem to feel the shot of insulin. He's too interested in the dinner that will be served afterwards.

You posted the same time as me. Yes 9kb. Here, you can use this link
 
Took Fatty to the new vet on Friday. We took his blood sugar there and it was 313. Of course Fatty was all high on catnip and very mellow. The vet would like to try him on a prescription diet. He is new vet so doesn't have any particular brand in his office. I picked out the Hills m/d. It had the lowest percentage of carbohydrates of any of the foods that I saw. It seems my cats do not care for wet food. They have been eating less and less of the canned. I have tried all the flavors and they had been getting them as treats since they were kittens, but their main diet was always dry. I guess they liked it as treats, but not as a staple. Fatty is still eating some, but not as much as I would like him to eat. I supplement with dehydrated chicken and some EVO dry and of course, any meat that i am eating.
The vet is willing to try to work with diet and weight loss before going to insulin and did not suggest I put him down if I don't do insulin. It just makes sense to me to try to make better choices in his diet and then if there continues to be a problem, then insulin is the route we have to take.
I am hoping we can finally find something both cats will like to eat and eat regularly. This coming home to half eaten dishes of feed every day makes me unhappy. I throw away a lot of money in food every day because they didn't eat much, plus I worry about their health, but they both are active and their litter habits have not changed. I clean their pans every day and I get a good amount for the garbage.
How does everyone else deal with their fussy cats? In addition to the wet food, mine don't care that much for fish or liver or pate of any kind. Do you know how many cat foods contain liver???
Feeding them has become exasperating and expensive, any tips would be appreciated.
 
Hello there! I had to laugh at Fatty's name. My Scout's nickname is Fatty... I have an old friend who was not really a cat person who used to catsit over Christmas each year. He couldn't remember their names, so he just called them Negro and Fatty. (One is black and one is fat, makes sense right?) I thought this was hilarious and the name Fatty kinda stuck. :) Then when she got sick, I texted him: "Fatty has diabetes... I guess I should have seen that coming." First time I'd laughed since the diagnosis.

Now, onto the food question...

I haven't used it myself, but people here say that Hills m/d is way too high in carbs for diabetics. Evo has a dry food that is like 7%, isn't that what you were feeding before? If the Hills m/d is higher than 7%, and you have to feed dry, why not just continue with the Evo? There's nothing magic in the prescription food. Look at the ingredients and compare. I guarantee you Evo will win.

As for the wet vs dry debate, well, look at my spreadsheet in my signature. As I attempted to eliminate and then completely eliminated the dry food (prescription Purina DM dry food, 13% carbs) Scout's numbers improved DRASTICALLY. She hasn't needed insulin in 5 days. That's just my experience but you'll find it is a common one.

I hear you with the wet food fight. I have two cats that were raised on dry food. My civvie, Nipper, turns her nose up at any wet food that is not tuna or salmon flavored, and she only sometimes will eat those. It's been a heck of a battle here to find stuff they will eat. So far, the big hit is Blue's Salmon flavor. Since I don't want to feed fish flavors every day, I have also been feeding Evo Beef and Evo Chicken and Turkey. Neither are liver based. If I add hot water and mix it into a wet mush, Scout loves it and Nipper can be coerced to eat it (someone suggested enticing her with treats on the food, and it sometimes works.) I am hoping this gets easier in time. However, since they both have extra weight to lose, I'm not too concerned for now. ;) Anyway, if you want to diet control, I would strongly encourage you to go really low carb. No dry food, only low carb wet and low carb treats. Give that a week and see how it goes.

Also, short term insulin therapy can help with remission... the idea is it gives the pancreas time to recover and then start taking back over insulin production. I don't have the link handy but I read that in a medical journal article. Just food (har har) for thought.

Take care,
Lori
 
Same story for me, look at Akbah's spreadsheet: I took him off dry food and he was off insulin before the end of the month. I had to watch him because before i stopped the insulin altogether, his BG was getting too LOW.
 
Hello again! Any update on the diet or how your kitty is doing?

Just wanted to report that it took my very picky cat about 10 days to convert over to wet food. Now she eats most of the flavors whereas before she turned her nose up at anything that wasn't fish. It took some time and patience and cajoling but we got there in the end.

Lori
 
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