New, have questions

I’m a newbie. Not sure if I’m doing this correctly. But, my 11-yr old kitty, Blackie, was just diagnosed with diabetes. The Vet sent us home with 6 pounds of Purina DM, which I then read on this site is a really poor quality food to give your cat. WTH?! But it doesn’t really seem to matter, because he’s flat out not eating much. We missed his insulin this morning because I read the cat has to eat before you give him a shot. Is thus correct? We’re only on day number three, and I’m very overwhelmed. Previous food was friskies dry and wet (against my better judgment, but my bf fed him that, anyway). I’ve switched him over to fancy feast, but he’s not eating much. Had tuna tonight before shot. Also, how much tine should pass between food and shot? Thank you!

 

Hi Blackie's mom, welcome to FDMB!

Yes, most prescription food is very high in carbs and should be avoided. You can feed him any low-carb (less than 10%) wet food. This link will provide you with nutritional information on various cat foods - https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

I have some questions for you !
(a) Are you in the US?
(b) What insulin is Blackie on? You said today is Day 3 of giving him insulin? What is the current dosage?
(c) Was Blackie ever tested for ketones by your vet?
(d) Do you have any information on his current sugar levels? We encourage home testing of blood sugar using a glucometer. Is that something you have been doing since starting insulin?
(e) Is Blackie's loss of appetite linked to the food change? Cat's don't usually take to sudden changes in their food. Is he feeling well besides the lack of appetite?

Once we have more information, we will be able to help you better!

Hang in there! It is very overwhelming initially but we are all here to help you!

 

Friskies pates are fine-- they are similar to the Fancy Feast pates in carbs-- so if he likes those, go ahead and feed them. It's really important that diabetic cats eat, and concerning when they don't (especially if it leads you to skip shots).

What insulin are you using? What dose?

 

Point of general information for readers of this thread: Purina DM wet food is low carb and OK for diabetic cats.


Mogs
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RIGHT Mogs but that dry...smh... PLEASE IF you are currently giving insulin do NOT remove the dry food all at once. All dry foods are packed with carbs and if removed while insulin is on board your cats numbers can drop into DANGEROUS LEVELS.
When I removed Troubles dry food his numbers dropped by 100 points.
Remove slowly day by day less and less.

 

Hi, So Good Glad You Tried to reply to @Bandit's Mom Questions, but we are sorry your own replies didn't got written in.
We Know It is TECHNICALLY and PHYSICALLY Difficult get a hang on how you write your own replies here.
Just Holla and someone will hopefully, gently and carefully, help you with that!
Hope You and Blackie are fine!

 

h

Hi there, Thank you for responding. I am in Sacramento, CA; Blackie is on Prozinc, 1 unit, twice a day. His appetite has been decreasing and then he started laying in front of his water bowl. Got him to the vet and he was diagnosed with diabetes. I don’t know his blood sugar level. He’s still not interested in eating. We’re trying tuna, friskies, treats, fancy feast... he got his insulin last night and we’re trying to get him to eat this morning. I never thought about testing him at home so we’ll get the equipment and supplies for that. I don’t quite understand how this message board works so if I’m replying incorrectly- sorry!

 

Is he smelling the food and then not eating it? Or licking low lips? If yes, I’d call the vet and ask for an anti nausea prescription. If he won’t eat today, you should take him back to the vet because diabetic cats need to eat or they’re at risk of developing ketones. Can you try baby food?

 

Waving from Palm Springs! I think maybe you should buy some Keytone strips. If hes refusing food its for a reason. Keytones are DANDEROUS and can turn bad quickly. You can find them at any drug store We use Wallgreens.

(to be clear I no longer have a diabetic kitty...just a diabetic hubby)

Testing at home is your BEST defense to this disease. Its the ONLY way to know if and when it is safe to inject insulin. (If your vet tells you otherwise...HE IS WRONG) Testing at home will give everyone peace of mind.

 

Hang in there Yes this is all Overwhelming and so much to process . Blackie not eating could be nausea and your Vet can give you meds to help At the moment I don’t have the names of the meds with me but I’m sure the other members do . It’s important that Blackie eats .
My cat stopped eating and the one thing that worked was recommended on this forum I couldn’t believe it at first but it worked lol. Hand fed meat baby food like gerbers meats no garlic or onions just the meat purée I couldn’t believe she would eat it off the spoon but yes yes I had to hand feed her lol. Let’s see if Blackie has nausea first
Hey Members what are the nausea med names again ?

 

@Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

 

Hi Again. Here you have the 2018 Available Blood Glucose Meters. Most buy Walmarts Relion due to smallest blood drops required on the Meter Strips. Both the meter and the test strips you use the most of have to be both correct and chep.
You need the Blood Glucose Meter + The Test Strips + the tiny prick things
http://main.diabetes.org/dforg/pdfs/2018/2018-cg-blood-glucose-meters.pdf

 

Actually Freestyle requires less, .3 as opposed to .5, but I have no issues with my ReliOn.

 

Did I say that? I’m a huge advocate for baby food ha! It’s pure meat they love it!!

 

Hi, welcome!! I'm pretty new here too. You'll catch on quickly! My kitty had some trouble eating wet food when we began, and I found a solution of crumbling freeze-dried chicken on top. She now licks the plate clean. Might work well for you too.

 

Ale what is the name of the 2 nausea meds she can ask her Vet for ? I don’t have the spellings with me

 

ACK I thought I tagged her
I did! Just forgot to say why. my bad!

 

Gotta love Jt

 

somebody has to do it.

 

* Ondansetron and Cerenia can treat nausea (can be used in concert if required as they have different mechanisms of action).

* Mirtazapine or cyproheptadine for appetite stimulation. Mirtz lasts longer in the system and may be a help with vomiting. Cypro doesn't last as long so it's easier to control the level of appetite stimulation.

See the following resource:

Nausea and appetite problems - symptoms and treatments.

Scroll down a bit for list of nausea symptoms.


Mogs
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THANKS MOGS!

 

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Thanks Mogs

 

I was wondering what I was being tagged for haha!

 

Mogs got it. Cerenia and ondansetron. I prefer ondansetron which is a human med. you can give it everyday long term.

 

Thank you. I’ll try to do that now. The vet gave me an appetite stimulant for Blackie and it’s really helped today.

 

This is a great idea. Blackie never had a problem eating, but now he sure does! Thank you!

 

I have to get a meter. I will! I’ve had some problems with hypoglycemia and I have a meter and strips somewhere. Could I use that?

 

As long as the strips aren't expired
Most of us us a human meter from Walmart
Relion Prime or the Premier
The Prime is only 9 bucks and 100 strips are 17.88
Pick up some lancets 28 gauge to start with , the ears will bleed better until more capillaries grow, then if you want you can switch to 32 or 33 gauge
I stuck with the 28 gauge and test free hand

 

Thank you.

 

You are welcome

 

there is also no meat by product.

 

Hi and welcome to you and Blackie.
If he is still not wanting to eat, I would ask for some cerenia and /or ondansetron for nausea which has been suggested already. It is really important that Blackie starts eating so that you can give the insulin.
I would also get a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy or Walmart to test the urine for ketones. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.
It is overwhelming at first, but hang in there, you will soon get the hang of it. Ask lots of questions.

 

Cerenia (maropitant) is only available as an injectable over here for cats.

In addition to the anti-nausea action, it may have some mild anti-inflammatory effect, so my vetty bean tells me. With Saoirse I found that ondansetron's anti-nausea effect was greater. That said, we did use both as part of a three-pronged approach to deal with the nausea and appetite issues at the start of a pancreatitis flare-up:

1. 1-off Cerenia injection (anti-nausea effect quicker to kick in than pilled ondansetron).
2. B12 cyanocobalamin injection (can help appetite - sometimes given over following few weeks).
3. Ondansetron (for ongoing daily anti-nausea cover - twice daily dosing).

The pain relief (bupe) also had a bearing on eating issues in the case of pancreatitis (understandable).


Mogs
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So.. Blackie was feeling good in the evening. No issues with his shot. He had a little energy And seems to be feeling good. We’re not testing yet (this is day 6 of shots, 2x a day, with just one missed. We are still trying to understand the food timing. I know we need to start testing to make this all work, and we will ((I hope we can do it!). I read on here that you shouldn’t feed a cat after the peak of the shot until it’s time for the next shot. So we gave him a shot at 9 PM and here it is 5:30 AM and he’s meowing and upset and I tried to give him some fancy feast he didn’t want that so I just gave him some Friskies biscuits and it seemed that’s what he wanted. He’s due for a shot in 3-1/2 hours. I’m going back to sleep for a couple of hours. I hope he’ll be okay. While I was up I noticed cat number two, Whitey, (Blackie’s brother) was just sitting by the water bowl staring into it, himself. Oh Em Gee. He’s probably next. I Need some general guidelines about the food until I begin testing. I don’t know if I should let him eat, not let him eat, wait till after the shot to eat, or make sure he eats before the shot, etc. I am So confused. My Usual state these days in dealing with this! I read one thing and think I understand, and then I will read another thing that’s just the opposite.

 

I copied this from the sticky for newbies on Prozinc basics:

• The proper sequence for dosing insulin is: Test/Feed/Shoot. In the beginning, if your cat’s BG is not up to at least 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, if your schedule allows, you can stall (without feeding) for 20+minutes, then retest the BG. You are looking for a number that is rising, not falling and up to 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}. If you stall once, but can’t do another round of stalling and your cat hasn’t reached a BG of 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, you’ll need to skip the dose and wait until the next cycle. NOTE: Because pet-specific meters (such as the AlphaTrak2) often read higher than human meters, you may want to adjust the NO-SHOOT number to 225 mg/dL {12.5 mmol/L} or even 250 mg/dL {14 mmol/L} This gives you an added margin of safety when using an AlphaTrak2 or other pet-specific meter.

• IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not feed your cat within the two-hour window right before the scheduled dose time; doing this can raise your cat’s blood significantly, giving you a higher BG number based on food. This could result in your giving insulin when you should not, or giving more insulin than you should.

 

Important: always always test then feed then shoot.

But most important is for you to start home testing. My vet actually discouraged me from doing it. I got support and advice on doing it from people here. Please start trying to test as soon as possible. I know you're following newbie Jenifer's thread with a lot of home testing advice there. I have to leave but if others haven't given you some help on home testing before I return, I'll post something for you.

And welcome to the community!
I know it all feels overwhelming. I still have those days. But week by week you will start to feel better about it and you will get into a routine. It just takes time.

 

Most of us feed the bulk of the meals after the shot, so around shot time. No food 2 hours before the shot because when you test you want the number you get not to have been influenced by food. If you’re shootings at 9am, eating at 5:30 am is okay, especially a small meal or snack like you did. Then you can feed smaller meals throughout the day or night. Try to avoid heavy meals after the peak of the insulin as you mentioned, but a snack is okay, which is that I do so Minnie can wait till shot time. Remember about diabteic cats always being hungry because they can’t process the nutrients in the food well. It’s a good thing that he’s eating now. Figure out his daily calorie intake and aim to get him eating that

btw, I’d still ask for an anti nausea that you can have at home if this happens again in the future. Better safe than sorry with a sugar cat!

 

I hope Blackie is eating well. Seems like you are getting lots of advice on that front. Once you have that sorted out, and you're able to shoot insulin, here are some things to help you with home testing.

Most of us do it on the ear, along the outer edge, like in the photos below. Getting a good blood flow to the ear by warming it up first will help a lot. Some people use a baby/small sock filled with rice that they microwave so it is warm, and then hold it against the ear.

Does Blackie have treats he loves? Pure meat or fish ones are good "diabetic friendly" choices. I always give Butters treats, to the point where she could be dead asleep but will immediately come running to our testing spot (soft blanket on my couch) when I open the blood glucose strips container. She gets a treat before I poke and a treat after, whether I get enough blood or not! To poke, I use the lancing device that came with my meter, but you could also free hand with a lancet. The device makes a loud click and not all cats are cool with that. And after poking, I may use my fingernail to get the blood droplet, and then push the strip in and hold the strip to the droplet so it "sips" the blood. Or if I'm sure she's not going to shake her head and send it flying, I may hold the meter with the strip right up to the droplet on her ear.

Check out this link to hometesting tips. It has actual videos! And a link to a step-by-step guide that explains it far better than I ever could.
You'll get the hang of it with practice. Try it when you can and let us know how it goes.
And here are these pictures from the other thread that you were reading:

 

Thank you so much!

 

Hi! If you have questions specifically about you and your kitty, please stick with replying in your own thread that you started and ask your questions here.
It is totally okay to reply to yourself! We all do it. And anytime you do reply, it "bumps" your thread up to the very top of the heap, so people will notice it. And anyone who has replied in your thread previously will get an alert that you have posted (if they have "alerts" turned on) something new.

So regarding the two hours: you do not give any food 2 hours before the shot. Because the blood glucose test that you do before giving a shot is very important. You are doing it to make sure your kitty's number is safe enough to give the insulin. Since food can inflate kitty's blood glucose and you don't know by how much, you don't want to give food in the two hour period before "test/feed/shoot" time. So there is no food interference.
Then, at this time, you:
1) "test" = test your kitty's blood glucose (BG) to make sure the number is safe to give insulin.
2) "feed" = feed your kitty. They need food in their system to ensure it is safe to give insulin. Otherwise, their BG can drop too low.
3) "shoot" = administer the insulin to your kitty.

I know all the information is a lot to take in. I encourage you to read over and over this post (sticky): sticky for newbies on Prozinc basics. As for setting up a food schedule, it does talk about it in the sticky. I am pretty new and not a Prozinc/PZI user, so I don't feel confident enough to talk about what you are feeding your kitty and when, other than what I wrote above.

Were you able to test Blackie yet? You will be able to get a lot more help once you are testing and you know when your kitty nadirs (lowest blood glucose numbers in a 12 hour cycle). But I'm going to tag a couple of experienced people who I know either use or have used Prozinc/PZI and let's see if they are available to give you some guidance on what you're doing for feeding, which is this:

5:30 AM: A small handful of friskies dry food
9 AM: insulin
Noon: 1/2 can fancy feast
1-5 pm: some temptations treats
9 pm: Insulin & right after my bf gave him tuna AND fancy feast! He was hungry.

@Elizabeth and Bertie
@Deb & Wink
@JanetNJ

ETA: I didn't mean to say "At this time," I meant to say "At insulin time,"

 

You only want to hold off on food for 2 hours before the pre-shot test.
So you could feed Blackie as late as 7am (or 7pm for the evening cycle) your time, and still be within that 2 hour window.

All BG (blood glucose) tests after the pre-shot test, we expect to be influenced by food.

I know you don't have a SS (spreadsheet) set up yet. And you might not have your test meter and know how to test your cat.
But you will get there.

Please don't stop the dry food just yet. As @jt and trouble (GA) mentioned, that can drop the BG levels 100 points or more. Let's get you home testing first, before you cut back on or stop the dry food and treats. Let's keep Blackie safe.

After you are home testing, if you could try feeding Blackie some more of the fancy feast in the middle of the cycle (a cycle is 12 hours), that would be better than the temptations treats. Save those for your hypo tool kit, when you need to bring his BG levels back up. Although, even the low carb fancy feast or friskies pates would work.

 

How is Blackie doing today ?

 

Thanks so much! We’ve added more fancy feast and are still giving dry food. I will get the blood test supplies tomorrow or Tuesday. If we’re not testing it doesn’t seem to matter if we withhold food after 7 pm or not. But we are, anyway.

 

Blackie is doing quite well, I think. Thanks So much for asking! He’s eating, he’s letting me give him shots, and he has periods where he seems to be feeling a little better.
although, He Does still lay by his water bowl a lot.