New foster sugar kitties - Jibbit & Sunshine

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matya13

matya13

Member Since 2013
Hello, all!

On Sunday, I became the foster mom to Jibbit & Sunshine, two kitties who suddenly lost their person. They were diagnosed with diabetes about a year ago, but have been on Glipizide instead of insulin. My vet has switched them to insulin - Lantus, 2 units BID. I'm supposed to be home-testing their BG, but I'm still working on getting the hang of that. It doesn't help that I'm severely needle-phobic, but I have been giving my cat with Chronic Kidney Disease sub-cutaneous fluids for about a year now, so that helps with managing the fear. ;) The insulin shots are no problem. I think the cats are more bothered by my tenting their fur to give the shot than the shot itself. They don't even seem to feel the shots!

Jibbit is going on 16 - a black & white Manx male with stubby tail. Sunshine is 11 - a grey DMH & tabby mix female. Both are are precious as they can be! I wish I could give them all the attention they need and deserve, but I have to be away from home at least 9.5 hours per day on weekdays, 12 hrs on my class nights (I work full-time and am also a grad student). I also have 4 other cats - 3 mine and another foster in a separate room. Oh, J & S are also isolated in their own room.

I've been feeding them one 5.5 oz can of wet food at about 7 AM just before they get insulin and another can at about 6:30 PM before insulin. Around 10-10:30 PM, they get a snack - freeze-dried stuff or a 3.5 oz can of wet. They always seem to be starving when I go into their room, though they don't finish all the food at once. Is this process appropriate, or should I try something different? I do also have to work with my other foster cat, so I don't want to change his schedule too much (he's special needs, working through serious trauma, so it's important for me to maintain his schedule and not start walking past his door without visiting him). Their current food is mainly Wellness, though I plan to start mixing it with cheaper options on Janet & Binky's list, for financial reasons. The small cans are FF - I've chosen from the varieties I had already for my cats, using the list.

I'm a complete newbie at this, so I would be happy for any and all suggestions/feedback! I'll work on trying to figure out how to make a profile for them. I have been looking at the resources on this board and have printed out info on hypoglycemia. Last night, I gathered up some high carb wet food just in case.

Thanks!

~Amy for Jibbit & Sunshine
 
Welcome to FDMB. Wow it sounds like your plate is overfull but so is your heart. God bless you! I no longer have a diabetic kitty so I dont have advice to share but there are others here that will be alng with their advice. It sounds like you are well organiozed and under control. God bless you for helping all these kitties.

Hang tight others will be here with good advice,
Again welcome to the best site on the planet to help you help your kitties.
jeanne
 
Thats so great you adopted these two kitties. They are on a good choice on insulin now.

Its Wellness grain free right? There is an up to date list here with the carbs (choose less than 10%). Many people here feed wellness grain free, fancy feast classic pates or friskies pates.

Home testing is key, especially now they are on a low carb food, they may not need as much insulin as they did previously and you dont want to shoot them when they are low and have a hypo.

Here is a link with some useful info including how to set up a profile, spreadsheet for testing, and your hypo kit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rd6sMfsrNB41yQVEqpyjlHrJsDIbGEhbRIWR4QAwu3c/pub

Wendy
 
Because they are not regulated yet, they cannot absorb the food, which causes them to be very hungry. Its OK to up the food by 50 - 100% while you are working on it.

How much does each of them weigh, and is that a good weight for each? The 2 units may be too high to start.It may be safer to start with 1 unit, or to use this calculation below.
To calculate a starting dose:
1) obtain ideal weight, or if underweight, take the current weight
2) if the weight is in pounds, divide by 2.2 to get kilograms
3) multiply kilograms of weight by 0.25 to get a starting dose.

Lantus is a depot insulin, with effects that carry over between shots. The first day or two, you may not see much effect. Hold steady! By day 3 you may start seeing something. Never change the dose based on a pre-shot glucose test; Lantus doses are changed based on the nadir (lowest point between 2 shots)
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone! :)

Yes, the Wellness is grain-free. I got a can of every flavor the day I decided to foster them. Then I had to pull out the high carb ones when I looked over the list! They went into my hypo pile. Ironically, I recently read over Dr. Pierson's site, though I hadn't printed out her food list. I'm going back to her site now to re-read the diabetic stuff, which I only read for interest, not retention, before.

Thanks for the advice about the food. I'll give them more for the time being. I was just concerned about over-feeding them!

As for the Lantus, I should have said that the vet prescribed 2 units BID based on their initial BG readings on Sunday (she actually said she thought they needed more, but to start there). However, when I started reading the resources on this board, I got panicky about triggering hypo, especially with their current food. (No idea what they ate before, but they were not interested in the grain-free dry I put down when I thought I needed to transition them to wet. They love the wet food!) So, in consultation with Jennifer of DCIN, I lowered their dose yesterday to 1 unit BID. I would much rather give them too little right now, when I haven't mastered the art of home testing (I only managed to test myself yesterday!), than too much and risk killing them. :(

They both are just little things. According to their vet records, they both lost quite a bit of weight over the past 2 years. Jibbit is probably about 10 lbs now, and Sunny is maybe 7-8 lbs. Based on their frames, I think those are actually okay weights for them and they may have been overweight before.

I guess I can do nadir testing over the weekend, but it isn't practical for me to try that during the week, as it would mean a trip all the way home and back to work in an hour, along with giving attention to all the kitties - just not doable, unfortunately.

Thanks again for the advice! :) I want to be a good caretaker for these special kitties, even though my ability to be one is limited.

~Amy for Jibbit & Sunshine
 
You might be able to adjust the shot times to make it work. You should always do a preshot test so say something like this

- 7am preshot test. Go to work
- work :(
- 7pm home from work yay! Preshot test
- 10/11pm Do a +3 / +4 test! (3 or 4 hours after shot)
- bedttime. yay!

And occasionally when you cant sleep or if you wake up at night, or set the alarm for a +7 to +9
Wendy
 
Thanks, Wendy! That sounds entirely doable. Once I figure out how to get blood properly, that is. Still on a learning curve with that....
 
Thanks! I'll print that out and watch the videos. Anything is better than my inept poking and prodding, poor babies. :(
 
You've already gotten some fantastic information, so I just want to welcome you and your sugar kitties to the board! So very kind of you to take all of this on. Please ask all the questions you need. You're doing great!
 
Thanks for the welcome, Tara! The info on this board has been amazingly helpful, as are the people! :)

~Amy
 
We went to the vet this morning. Jibbit still had a "high" BG reading (over 600?), and Sunshine's was 486, up from 426 last Sunday - though she was absolutely terrified, which could have something to do with the higher number.

The vet told me to increase their dosages by 1 unit BID, so 2 units BID for each.

She showed me how to use the lancing device, which I think will make it easier for me to poke them successfully. She wants me to keep trying to do BG on my own, but to still bring them back in two weeks for another assessment.

I'm going to add B12 to Jibbit's regimen, if he'll take it, to help with his peripheral neuropathy.
 
Heres the thing.. many cats have super high BG at the vets just because its so stressful and you did say Sunshine was terrified.

You really need to get testing the BG. But I would try and do that before you increase the dose. For all you know its "hi" BG at the vet but it could even be normal or even low at times at home. And increasing the dose could cause a hypo if thats the case.

Test the lancing device on yourself first and when you have the hang of it, and a sore thumb lol.. try one of the boys.

Let us know
Wendy
 
Hi Amy,

Make sure the B12 is MethylB12 not regular B12. When I first started to treat Tucker, I found this page http://www.laurieulrich.com/jasper/index.html It explains dosing and things.

MethylB12 is Methylcobalamin, helps with nerve regeneration. Between that and insulin therapy legs should get better.

Also, be careful on dose increases from a vet visit, there's vet stress in there. You have the diet change, the new foster home and the removal of the Glip and starting the insulin all playing a hand in here. BGs may start to come down very soon. As you start testing more at home you'll have a better idea. Plus post here so folks can help you understand the numbers.

These two are very lucky to have you as their foster mom :)
 
Hi Amy,

You are so kind to be fostering these sweet cats. I felt sad when I read their story on the DCIN.

I had a cat once, that was at the vet, and his blood glucose was 280. The vet said "Oh, he will need to be checked again, he is probably diabetic." Well, I checked him at home, and he was always in the 60 range. So, I know that since he was a nervous wreck cat, that the stress raised it that high.

I have to commend you on giving sub-q fluids, because I have been giving my tortie cat, Ketchie, fluids for a month now, and to me, when I tested and gave shots to my two diabetic boys (they are angels now) it was a LOT easier than giving sub-q fluids. So, you should do quite well with the testing.

Take care of your own health too. You have a lot on your plate right now, but you are wonderful for saving these two cats at this time.

God bless!
Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Thanks, Wendy, Jennifer, and Jean!

I feel like a complete failure for these babies. :sad: Still no blood for testing, though I didn't try at all yesterday - I had a massive migraine and could barely manage basic kitty care! (They did get their insulin.) I think I need a harder surface for the lancing device. I've been using the rice sock behind their ears, but I suspect that's too soft. Tonight, I'll try a folded piece of gauze and see if that works. I haven't seen even a tiny red speck on their ears yet! I did try poor Jibbit's paw again and DID get a drop of blood...and of course he yanked his paw out of my hand, and I smudged it when I grabbed his paw back. I got enough blood to fill the strip 2/3 full. :YMSIGH:

I want to cry and yell and throw things! But I know I need to remain calm for the kitties.

Jean, it's funny - I guess whatever you're used to seems easier than something new. :smile: Also, it's easier to get Casey to hold still for the fluids (now that I know how to do it) than to get these sugar cats to hold still for poking! I may need to resort to "burrito kitty" for a while. I don't have any trouble with those tiny insulin needles, it's just getting the blood that's the trouble. I guess I could threaten to use a 20 gauge sub-cu needle on them!! ;-)

Jennifer, I take methyl B12 myself, so that's what I'm giving Jibbit. He ate the first Pill Pocket with no trouble, then started refusing them. I hid the Pill Pocket in some crumbled up freeze-dried chicken, and he didn't even notice when he ate it! ;) Funny how we have to try to outsmart our kitties!

~Amy for Jibbit & Sunshine
 
Thanks, Wendy, Jennifer, and Jean!

You are not a failure! Many newbies have issues with testing at first. But it doe get easier. Your skill gets better, you get technique that works for you and your cat, and the ears learn to bleed!

I put a hard surface behind my cats ears - a small flashlight. Other people use pill bottle lids or things like that. Sounds also like you might not be going deep enough. You might find freehanding easier as it gives you more control and you can do double poke in the same area ..
 
I had been trying freehand with the lancet, to failure. I was excited when my vet showed me how to use the lancing device, because it seemed so much easier! Of course, lots of things seem easy in the vet's office....

I'll just keep at the kitty torture until I finally get it! I'm trying to be glad that these guys are still alive (they were to be euthanized at the shelter), in a cozy room, and getting insulin and a low-carb diet (instead of pills and who knows what). I'll get the BG testing down eventually, just like I did the fluids! It's just SO frustrating. My first solo efforts at giving fluids did end in tears and the conviction that my failure was dooming my cat to death. I think the vet remembers that, so that's why she keeps telling me not to stress about the BG. But I still do!!
 
Here's a new question: I've been attempting to use a Bayer Microlet2 lancing device, using the grey tip, which is what the vet put on. I was wondering if I should try the clear tip that it also comes with. The instructions say the grey tip is for lancing fingertips only, and the clear tip is for palms and forearms. Sounds like the grey tip goes in more shallowly than the clear. The vet did get blood from Sunshine's ear using the grey tip. Just trying everything possible to fix whatever I'm doing wrong....

Last night, I put Neosporin with pain relief on Jibbit's ear, warmed his ear with the rice sock, held his ear firmly with a folded piece of gauze, and used the lancing device on the middle setting (as called for by the resources I've read, though the vet said to use the deepest setting). I got...nothing. At all. Now, I did try on the back of his ear (as the instructions seem to indicate, though the vet said to use the inside), and his ears are black, so maybe I just didn't see it? I looked very closely! Then I tried the inside of his ear, twice. Nothing. Then I poked his paw. Nothing. (That last poke, it felt like the device fired, but the lancet didn't really move, if that makes any sense.) I threw the device down in disgust, grabbed another lancet, and poked him in the back of the ear twice freehand. I swear I felt it pop in both times (which maybe means I went all the way through?) Still nothing! I tried the inside of his ear again, which was when he yowled, so I let the poor baby go.

Can you believe he let me torture him that much?! :sad: I didn't even try on Sunshine again, but I think I'll start with her the next time. No reason for poor Jibbit to always be my guinea pig.

I truly cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong. I feel like I'm doing everything right! The only thing I haven't tried yet is a flashlight in the ear, so I'll see if I can find one small enough to handle during a torture session. My hands generally start to tremble after a short time of needle-handling, so I need to have equipment that I won't drop easily.

I've asked the shelter I'm fostering them for if anyone there is experienced in blood testing and who would be willing to come help me figure this out, so I'm hoping someone will. Still waiting to hear.

~Amy, for Jibbit & Sunshine, poor babies
 
Ok some ideas

1. You might as well try the clear tip if the grey isn't working, remember the vet is experinced with this and you can go back to the grey later on if need be.

2.You might need a small flashlight since his ears are black to shine through the ear to see what you are doing, I use a "mini USB torch" key ring I got on eBay that came from china..

3. I always poke the top of the ear. (Furry side).

4.You could also try the deepest setting of the device until you get the hang of it.

5. Or freehand but at a 45degree angle and put something hard behind the ear to press against.

Wendy
 
I agree, I use the clear caps always so I can see where my lancet is going to land. I also use the deepest setting when I have a new kitty I'm testing, once the ear is trained, I back that down.

I use my finger on the back of the ear for support. Not everyone does that, but since the lancet hits the ear, my finger does not get poked. Perhaps you could wrap the gauze around your finger and then place your finger behind the ear to give the lancet something to strike against.

Once I use the lancet, for some of my kitties who's ears aren't trained yet, I let them shake their heads, this draws blood to the spot, then I milk it, push from above and below to push blood to the spot. If kitty is fidgety I put the droplet of blood on my fingernail and test from that.

You're doing great. I used to cry when I first started to test Tucker. I had an old Bayer that needed a lot of blood and my vet gave me 18 gauge needles to poke his ear. I hadn't found this place yet, so I sat there trying to poke at my dear boy and he was in fear and I cried so much. This is how I know you are doing great and will be an old pro in no time.

No matter what, these two are blessed that they have you to start their new journey to a new life. Hopefully they will get adopted soon, but until then, they are so lucky.
 
Thanks, Wendy and Jennifer!

I apologize for the slow reply. Either the board was having fits or our server was - I kept getting an error msg.

Lots of good suggestions, which I'll try implementing! I need to find a smaller flashlight, since the smallest of mine is still too awkwardly big.

Jennifer, I can't imagine using an 18 gauge to poke a kitty ear! I had to use those on Casey (CKD) kitty until I could order some 20 gauge UTWs for her fluids. As they say on the CKD list I'm on, those are "kitty harpoons"! Poor you, and poor Tucker!!!

Back to trying more kitty torture tonight....

The good news is that their poop is finally firming up. I guess you know you're a crazy cat person when nice-looking poop makes you happy! LOL
 
I use one of these (ebay "usb mini torch" keyring - its like $3 from China including shipping) Its like 2 inches long and has a nice flat surface. Plus you can charge it by plugging into your computers usb port.

$(KGrHqJ,!nwFEF2eRs6yBRDH)OztPg~~60_12.JPG
 
Thanks! I got a small flashlight last night to try, but if it doesn't work, I'll look for that one. I was exhausted by the time I got home, and they were absolutely starving, so I didn't even bothering trying kitty-torture. I think I need to figure something else out for class nights - it's way too long for them to go without food. (Or me either! It was after 9 pm by the time I finally got to feed myself!)

An interesting new development: I think Jibbit knows that the insulin shots make him feel better. Is that crazy to think? The last 2 days, when he sees me giving Sunshine her shot (I get her first while she's eating, because she freaks out otherwise - doesn't like the skin-lifting, I think), he's stopped eating and waited at my feet until I give him his shot, then he goes right back to eating. I know Casey, my CKD cat, has figured out that fluids make her feel better. When she's really not feeling well, she lets me give them with no trouble. Is it possible that cats can figure it out about insulin, too??
 
If Jibbit has worked out that shots make him feel better then he is one bright kitty. he may have worked out that shots involve treats though. or he likes the attention. Or he could be a bright kitty!

Once you get the hang of testing you will be able to do it really quick and wont even notice it. You could buy a timed feeder for the food so they dont go too long without it.

Let me know how you get on - i am looking forward to seeing your first test results!

Wendy
 
Well, after a long, long time, I'm back on this board! I finally learned out to test their BG, much to their dismay. I'll be posting in the Relaxed Lantus forum and hoping to get some dosing advice!

As you can see from the spreadsheets (linked in my sig), Jibbit is all over the place, and Sunny seems solidly stuck in the 300s, for the most part.

I think things are mostly the same as when I first posted about them, though they have been released from their foster kitty room prison and are now free-range cats! They also decided that they hate Wellness, so they eat low-carb FF and Weruva with the occasional can of low-carb Friskies thrown in.
 
You mean 300s for Sunshine, right?

And remember - mid-cycle tests are where you see how well the insulin is doing. For Lantus, test sometime between +5 and +7 hours after a shot to see how low it goes. If below 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer, it earns a dose reduction of 0.25 units.
 
Yes, 300s for Sunny - thanks, fixed that.

I do mid-cycle tests when I am able, but I work full-time and am the only one here to run this overly large house with an overly big yard containing too many cats! So even on weekends and days off, I may not be able to test as frequently as I should.

"If below 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer, it earns a dose reduction of 0.25 units." Could you clarify? I'm not sure if this means a change of 50 indicates a reduction of .25 u or what. I wouldn't shoot a cat at all at 50.

Thanks!
 
If the glucose test result (not the amount of drop) is below 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer, it earns a reduction.
 
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