New Diabetic

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Brenda&bernie

Member Since 2015
Hi, What a nightmare come true this has been. My cat is Dr Bernie Moskowitz. we are his 4th owners, we intercepted him going to a shelter 5yrs ago after having a pretty abused and neglected history. Our goal this whole time has been to give him a good and love filled life. Which we had been doing a pretty good job of until that day. He was diagnosed 6.29.15 accidently, I took him in for something else and ER found sugar in his urine, the BG was 520. The vet at the Animal ER said all I needed was dedication and the guts to give 2 magic shots a day. That was 3 insulins ago and thousands of dollars ago. And nothing works, nothing. Bernie was started on 2u Lantus am/pm which made him vomit. They cut him back to 1.5, then 1 for 3 weeks straight. He slept most of the time, sometimes so deeply, it was difficult to wake him. His BG was usually 300-400. Despite my constant calls with worries and visits and hospital stays where they did alot of damage to him they didn't change the type or dose. At about 3 weeks they did a curve and found the Lantus was doing nothing and said he must have formed antibodies to it. I left them and went to another vet. He has since been on ProZinc with the same reaction and currently on BCP Prozinc with a similar reaction even at .5u. When we stopped the insulin, he returns to his old self. Happy, loving and full of energy. But then nothing is combatting the Diabetes. I can't keep letting him be tortured like this. His whole life has been shots, IV's, venipuncture, pricks and getting shaved in various places and sleeping and being sick. I am now positive some of his high readings were due to the stress of being in the hospital. Currently he sits at about 300-400. Is it possible he can't take insulin? He has not had any dry food for about 2 months and I am trying to get him to like raw in an effort to put him into remission. I can't take the torture of watching this anymore. I have attempted to test his blood myself but I felt like I mostly hurt him and made him scared of me. And if he felt better, I would feel better about testing him myself. We had a very loving relationship with him prior to this, and lots of routines together. It changed our whole life without helping him a bit. He was hiding alot, keeping a distance and no longer sleeps on the bed Last weekend he started giving us trouble with food. Since I couldn't enough into him I was going to skip the dose and try him the following morning 5;30am to keep him on schedule, but I called the vet first about 2 hours past shot time 7:30pm . He said to give the dose and wait 12hrs to feed and give the next. Following that advice led to my cat a refusing to eat for several days. I stopped the insulin by Tuesday pm in spite of the vet telling me to give it. We have run up 2 credit cards to pay for the hospital bills, insulin and special foods. We can't take much more of this, I'm sure this is not normal. but we really can't afford to try another insulin do more curves, ect. Does anybody out there have a cat who cannot take insulin? What do you do? Thanks for listening.
 
First of all, BREATHE!!! ....now breathe again!

When treatment first starts. a lot of our cats can act like they feel pretty icky for awhile, but as treatment progresses, they get better and better. The 3 important things to concern yourself right now is to switch over to a low carb canned or raw food. You don't need any of that expensive "prescription" food the vets want to sell us. Most of us use Fancy Feast Classic, Friskie's Pate's and 9-lives pates....all under 10% carbs

Then getting a good insulin that works well in cats is the next step. Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc are the only insulins that work well in our sugarcats.

Next most important is to get used to home testing him....It's truly the only way to both keep him save as well as knowing how well each dose is working. 2 months on Lantus when you don't understand how to made dose decisions isn't very long. I had all these wonderful people her guiding me every step of the way and it was still over 4 months before I would have called her "regulated" (and that's not the same as being in remission, but that's the goal!

Here's something I wrote up for others...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!

By desensitizing him to having his ears fooled with and having him associate a special spot with food, maybe it'll really help get those REAL tests in!

Hope you find some of this useful with your dear "extra sweet" kitty cat!
 
Hi Brenda. Chris is right, BREATHE! I can tell how much you love your kitty and want to help him. It's so hard to see them feeling bad and feel there's nothing we can do to help them. But don't give up yet! There are lots of people here who have had different experiences and may be able to help you. Am I understanding that the insulin is making Bernie vomit? I know you spent a lot of money at the vet, can you tell us what tests were run? Has he been checked for ketones, pancreatitis or any other underlying problems? And what are you feeding Bernie? Some canned foods are high in carbs like the dry is. You want to stick to pate types. As for blood glucose testing, you really need to try to do it at home. The vets office can be extremely stressful for most cats. I happened to see the vet techs notes on my cats in clinic tests and found she had to force feed him and he was too stressed to continue. I told the vet, no more! I now home test and bring the info in for him to help with analysis. Please write back and give more info. The more you can tell us, the better we can help you.
 
There are some very rare conditions where cats may be OK in those higher numbers. Your vet may find it helpful to consult with Dr Mark Peters, who specializes in endocrinology.
 
Hi, thank you for responding, we REALLY appreciate it. I agree I should be home testing, we tried it a few times I'm just SO bad at it. I have an alpha track and I used the lancet that came with it. I accidently poked myself and it was like getting poked with a thumb tack. Are there any sharper ones? Bernie now eats only fancy feast classics, ziwi peak fish/venison and freeze dried reconstitute as s meal dry as a treat. Currently he is taking 1/4 BCP PZI. Only because he stopped eating last week. He was at 1/2. Lantus did nothing for the bg and out him in a coma like state and PZI had a similar effect. On the BCP we have seen the numbers coming down. From the fours down to the threes. My vet was impressed because she wasn't for the BCP. The problem for us is even at a 1/4u he goes to sleep after. Is this normal? Does anybody else's cat do this? Please let me know. Insulin has become a black cloud over our heads. I actually feel dread when I realize it's getting close to that time. Thanks again for the input you all have given#
 
Folks find that lancets labeled for alternate site testing - 25-28 gauge - are more likely to get blood initially.
 
My cat sleeps after his shot. He is not regulated yet, and I think he sleeps, not from the shot, but from the increase in BG after eating. Not sure if that's right, just what I've been thinking. Interested to see what others say.
 
I had a really hard time getting used to the testing, too. First of all, I have a kitty that doesn't like to be touched by any human ever, so I had to work with him to overcome that before I could even begin to poke his ears. Then I could tell it was hurting him which was emotionally really hard for me. And THEN when I did it, I still couldn't get any/enough blood to get an accurate test. It IS worth working through all of that though to help get your kitty healthy. I found that heating his ear with the rice sock was essential to getting enough blood, as was changing to a thicker needle (I had started out with the thinnest ones, hoping it wouldn't hurt him as much - ended up being worse since I had to poke more than once to get blood). Oh, and giving him treats was also a huge help in earning his cooperation. He still hates the testing, but he does it because he wants the treats that he knows come as soon as the meter beeps.

The people on here are absolutely amazing, and the collective wisdom of this group is miles above anything my vet could tell me about how to treat feline diabetes. I encourage you to post often (at the beginning I was sometimes posting a couple of times/day to learn what I needed to know) and ask all of your questions. You can do this! And we are all here to help!
 
Brenda&bernie said:
I accidently poked myself and it was like getting poked with a thumb tack. Are there any sharper ones?
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Cats don't have very many pain receptors in the edges of their ears, so it really doesn't hurt them unlike us humans who have lots of receptors in our fingers.

With our kitties, it really is usually just that they're protesting having their ears touched, not that it actually hurts them....try desensitizing him as I suggested above without actually poking....I'm betting that Bernie will quickly learn to associate his "spot" with a yummy treat and won't care what you're doing with his ears
 
Chris & China said:
Cats don't have very many pain receptors in the edges of their ears, so it really doesn't hurt them unlike us humans who have lots of receptors in our fingers.

With our kitties, it really is usually just that they're protesting having their ears touched, not that it actually hurts them....try desensitizing him as I suggested above without actually poking....I'm betting that Bernie will quickly learn to associate his "spot" with a yummy treat and won't care what you're doing with his ears
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Chris thanks for replying. What kind of treat? Does your cat get sleepy and lethargic after the shot? Bernie has always done this. Then I feel really bad. We tred again to test tonight. Another fail...sigh. I guess tomorrow us another day...
 
Freeze dried chicken is a favorite around here....any freeze dried meat is fine as long as the only ingredients are meat (China just recently started liking freeze dried wild boar....before that she wouldn't eat freeze dried anything and we'd tried them all!!) You can get freeze dried treats pretty much anyplace that has pet supplies...a lot of people will buy the dog types because it ends up being cheaper and then just break the pieces up into cat sized bites

Before China would eat the freeze dried, I'd just buy real chicken when it was on sale and bake or boil a piece for her, cut it up and leave some in the fridge and put the rest in the freezer

When our kitties first start the sugardance, they're blood glucose is going to be kind of "all over the place" and I'm sure it makes them feel pretty crummy....I've also heard from others that at first, it seems their cats sleep more, but as the blood glucose gets better, they start to play games they used to play and return to being much more active
 
Djamila said:
I had a really hard time getting used to the testing, too. First of all, I have a kitty that doesn't like to be touched by any human ever, so I had to work with him to overcome that before I could even begin to poke his ears. Then I could tell it was hurting him which was emotionally really hard for me. And THEN when I did it, I still couldn't get any/enough blood to get an accurate test. It IS worth working through all of that though to help get your kitty healthy. I found that heating his ear with the rice sock was essential to getting enough blood, as was changing to a thicker needle (I had started out with the thinnest ones, hoping it wouldn't hurt him as much - ended up being worse since I had to poke more than once to get blood). Oh, and giving him treats was also a huge help in earning his cooperation. He still hates the testing, but he does it because he wants the treats that he knows come as soon as the meter beeps.

The people on here are absolutely amazing, and the collective wisdom of this group is miles above anything my vet could tell me about how to treat feline diabetes. I encourage you to post often (at the beginning I was sometimes posting a couple of times/day to learn what I needed to know) and ask all of your questions. You can do this! And we are all here to help!
Click to expand...
Thanks! That will be helpful. I just wish this would go away, it's life upside down foe all 3 of us. We failed at another test tonight. Warm rice sock and all. But we will try again tomorrow. Should we test before eating and after the shot? If so, how long after the shot? And I'm finding that the vets don't know as much as we would like and after everything they put Bernie thru, I feel like I have to protect him.
 
Chris & China said:
Freeze dried chicken is a favorite around here....any freeze dried meat is fine as long as the only ingredients are meat (China just recently started liking freeze dried wild boar....before that she wouldn't eat freeze dried anything and we'd tried them all!!) You can get freeze dried treats pretty much anyplace that has pet supplies...a lot of people will buy the dog types because it ends up being cheaper and then just break the pieces up into cat sized bites

Before China would eat the freeze dried, I'd just buy real chicken when it was on sale and bake or boil a piece for her, cut it up and leave some in the fridge and put the rest in the freezer

When our kitties first start the sugardance, they're blood glucose is going to be kind of "all over the place" and I'm sure it makes them feel pretty crummy....I've also heard from others that at first, it seems their cats sleep more, but as the blood glucose gets better, they start to play games they used to play and return to being much more active
Click to expand...
That is good news, watching him after a shot depresses me so badly. But if this is going to get better, I can stay the course. It surprises me because he's only taking a quarter of a unit till I can talk to the vet next week. I wouldn't think it could have any effect it's so low.
 
Sharon14 said:
My cat sleeps after his shot. He is not regulated yet, and I think he sleeps, not from the shot, but from the increase in BG after eating. Not sure if that's right, just what I've been thinking. Interested to see what others say.
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How long does your cat sleep?
 
I've not timed how long he sleeps, but he's pretty out of it. As far as testing, you should test before feeding(no food 2hours prior) then feed, then give the insulin. It takes awhile for the insulin to work, so the BS goes up from the feeding. I figured that's why Colin (my cat)gets so tired looking. I'm new to all this too and still overwhelmed. I have gotten Colin to let me test him. He even comes when I sit in our testing chair, expecting his treat. Follow Chris' desensitizing suggestions. Take a deep breath and relax before you catch Bernie, he can sense your nerves.
 
Sharon14 said:
I've not timed how long he sleeps, but he's pretty out of it. As far as testing, you should test before feeding(no food 2hours prior) then feed, then give the insulin. It takes awhile for the insulin to work, so the BS goes up from the feeding. I figured that's why Colin (my cat)gets so tired looking. I'm new to all this too and still overwhelmed. I have gotten Colin to let me test him. He even comes when I sit in our testing chair, expecting his treat. Follow Chris' desensitizing suggestions. Take a deep breath and relax before you catch Bernie, he can sense your nerves.
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You're so right, then he probably thinks I'm upset with him.
 
Yup, my cat can definitely sense how I'm feeling about it! Keeping myself calm was a big part of getting a successful test. Also, I figured out that if his ear is bleeding well, I can get some of the blood on my fingernail and then he can run away and I can use the blood on my nail for the test (always wash your hands well before and after the test if you do that!). I found it easier to do it that way than to try to get him to hold still while I got the test strip in the right place on his ear. I test him by myself and holding him, his ear, and the meter was just too much at first. Didn't work on the days when the prick barely gave any blood, but if I got a good stick it helped a lot. Sometimes I still have to try a couple of times before I get a successful test. I just give him a treat in between each one and rub his head to keep him settled. It does get easier. The first days are the hardest. I've only been doing this since August and already it feels like a normal part of our routine now.

I wonder if he's sleepy because his BG is high, or because it's low? Being able to get some tests in mid-cycle will help to figure out what's going on. Also, if you get your signature and spreadsheet set up it will help the experts on here to see what's happening and give sound advice.
 
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